Seeing a lot of complaints about "spammy" players online, if you're one of those people, listen up..

[Pachyy]

I doubt this thread will change something and there's no way to know if it did. Sad truth.

 

[PragmaticEnigma]

I encountered a Sheik that did the same thing last night. It just took lots of patience... but eventually, I figured out that he didn't use many aerials, so I would just approach him with f-airs, and shielded projectiles into down-smash.

Never actually seen Sheik played like that. Usually I go for F-air combos, use the side-B for spacing, and use the needles to stun them or mix them up. Sheik's most powerful moves are her aerials and down-B. That must have been one whacked out player.

 

[PragmaticEnigma]

I encountered a Sheik that did the same thing last night. It just took lots of patience... but eventually, I figured out that he didn't use many aerials, so I would just approach him with f-airs, and shielded projectiles into down-smash.

Never actually seen Sheik played like that. Usually I go for F-air combos, use the side-B for spacing, and use the needles to stun them or mix them up. Sheik's most powerful moves are her aerials and down-B. That must have been one whacked out player.

 

[PragmaticEnigma]

****in' double post.

 

[erico9001]

The op is worded insultingly, which is unfortunate because it actually has a great point for people that lose to spammers. If you find yourself losing to a spammer, whatever the type, then there is a hole in your playstyle (assuming there is not a hefty lag). If you realize this, what you think of facing the person is dependent on whether you are looking to improve your playing and close up that hole. If you are not looking to improve then be aware that these people are not going away, and you will continue to be frustrated by them in the future. Additionally, this hole will be present against all fighters, not just those who spam. So if you do want to improve, here's what you do: DO NOT LEAVE

Stay calm, and stay focused. Experiment with different techniques until you think you have figured out how to deal with the opponent. Once you think you have figured it out, continue to apply it against the opponent for a while. As you get better with the technique you should find it easier to face the opponent. If they mix up their strategy, that is good, because it means they realized that you figured them out. Although, there's something important to know here; often times people spam because they are in a bad mood, not because spamming is the only thing they know how to do. Do not assume that a spammer sucks, because that could be your downfall if they decide to stop spamming. Nonetheless, the good thing is that you figured out how to beat that style of spammer. This skill can be applied to more situations than you might think.

Interestingly, while I was writing this, I decided to see if I could test my approach online. First, I found a Jigglypuff who spammed Rest for some reason, and that person was no issue at all. Following that person's eventual leaving, I found a Rosalina who spammed grabs. Shulk is a pretty easy character to punish due to ending lag, so I had an issue with this. Without knowing it, the Rosalina was really helping me to learn how to attack in a way so I avoid being punished. The first match I actually won, the second match I lost, and the third one I totally obliterated. This caused the opponent to leave. It really did not take me long to improve my skill in that area to a point where this Rosalina could not have an advantage by punishing me with grabs. It's still something I need to work on for real competitive play, but at least I am decently improved, which is the point.

 

[Roko Jono]

Problem with many players; many feel entitled to be decent because they played a previous game or for whatever reason they watched videos so they should be gud. Those who can't grasp true competitive play and mindsets just want to get good at a game without practicing or thinking all that hard. I've seen it in so many games, and I'll see it in this one. While I wish this wasn't true, this is just how things are with video games.

I'm always happy to hear feedback and do not mind giving feedback back to others, but some people don't want to discuss anything or learn anything new and they wonder why they can't win. This sometimes causes Johns.

 

[Kaiboiii]

As much as I get annoyed by spammers, it is really just a strategy.

Personally I prefer fighters who you have to mainly melee with, such as Little Mac, Fox, etc.

But each to their own I guess.

 

[Quillion]

Honestly, having both zoning characters and close-up characters makes the game much more varied.

It's not like Melee where the Fragile Speedsters are in complete control.

Or in Brawl where the campers are in complete control (with ONE Fragile Speedster above them all).

 

[ellord]

I have another idea, just perfect shield and edge stall. So both player will get bored instead just the one getting camped. If he's bad, he will just not be able to dodge bomb in sudden death. All strategy are legit

 

[Quillion]

I have another idea, just perfect shield and edge stall. So both player will get bored instead just the one getting camped. If he's bad, he will just not be able to dodge bomb in sudden death. All strategy are legit

No, filibusters are horrible in Congress, and filibustering is horrible in Smash either way you put it.

 

[ellord]

Lol, i dont include this kind of strategy.

 

[Angry Guy of DE]

Spammy stuff like projectiles on a stage with no platforms? Yeah it sucks, especially if you don't have a projectile to use of your own. Once you add in platforms the value of that tactic is much weaker since you gain more options of approach so they have to try to control more of the stage to hinder you.

That's the one issue with For Glory Mode is that it is just Final Destination with the only changes are length of stage and the underside as far as walls or being able to pass through from below. A battlefield option stage would've been nice if for just variety since ALOT changes once you can attack a person from below them.

I play Ganon and I've seen enough of Greninja, Shiek, and those Links that have likely worn out their B buttons with the amount of non-stop projectiles they've thrown along with rolling to the other side of the stage since Ganon's run is pitiful.

Kind of makes we wish they kept the info of how far you ran at the end of the match like in Melee and Brawl.

 

[elitex12]

One thing I have started to notice is that some of the characters when they are controlled by higher level CPU spam pretty hard. I think that some of the people online played against CPU as training and developed habits of a CPU.

 

[Mechageo]

I don't know, do you feel better after this post here?

I do. Wait, better about what?

 

[Quillion]

A lot of people are saying that projectile spamming and roll spamming are optimal tactics, and I find that claim to be highly suspect. I haven't lost to this kind of thing in like a decade, and most of the people complaining about it have actually said that they win against it easily, so if you seriously want to claim that projectile spam or roll spam is a strong tactic then the burden of proof is on you.

Please, if you can post a vid of players using projectile spam (in Smash 4, we've already seen vids of it in Melee and Brawl) in a way that's actually effective, by all means do so. We'll all benefit from the learning experience.

Hey, not everyone can afford a 3DS capture card; those things are expensive.

Can't you just take people's word for it just because more than one person reports the brokeness of these tactics?

 

[servbot 42]

pretty valid point on this thread. I remember something like this being discussed with Street fighter. The book is "FROM MASHER TO MASTER" by Patrick Miller. heres a small part of a page that I agree with in terms of this topic:

 

[ellord]

You miss the point of some people just don't enjoy playing against camper, it doesn't mean they loose. I like when i get a intense fight and both player approach and combo. It make the game slow and boring to play against people that never approach and just trade with grab instead trying any combo or risky move that make impossible to finish under 5minutes.

 

[LancerStaff]

Hey, not everyone can afford a 3DS capture card; those things are expensive.

Can't you just take people's word for it just because more than one person reports the brokeness of these tactics?

Because these people are almost always wrong, my experience says no, and there's absolutely no video evidence and there won't be.

Also, replays are a thing. Records up to 17 minutes or so now, then just hold the camera nice and still when you replay it.

 

[Quillion]

Because these people are almost always wrong, my experience says no, and there's absolutely no video evidence and there won't be.

Also, replays are a thing. Records up to 17 minutes or so now, then just hold the camera nice and still when you replay it.

I'd rather have no footage at all over blurry footage that goes in and out of focus.

Also, I find it funny that there's no one posting footage of zoning characters being punished. Sure there was ZeRo Talks, but Link is really supposed to be a zoning-closeup mix.

 

[Shiliski]

Hey, not everyone can afford a 3DS capture card; those things are expensive.

Can't you just take people's word for it just because more than one person reports the brokeness of these tactics?

I just record it with my iPhone, but those are expensive too. I can understand not being able to show proof, but...

Thing is, no I can't. More than one person claims that the Earth is flat. More than one person claims that the Earth is hollow. If more than one person claims that 2+2=5, that doesn't change the basic rules of mathematics. We can prove that the Earth is not flat, we can prove that the Earth is not hollow, and we can prove that 2+2 in fact equals 4 and not 5. Proof is necessary, otherwise there's no credibility owed and none should be given. Truth and facts don't bend to popular opinion.

If I saw it myself, I'd believe it, but after taking up Palutena I've seen many people get around her Auto-reticle spam. That's to be expected, as Auto-reticle is one of the weakest projectiles in the game. You can get past it by jumping or dashing forward. You know what's hilarious? There are players that do not know that they can simply jump or dash forward. They do not want to spend the time to figure out how to jump or dash forward. Instead of trying to win, instead of trying something as simple as dashing or jumping, I have seen such players simply turn around and walk of the edge 2 times, then leave the game.

I have proof that spamming her projectile is probably one of her worst options. I also have proof that some players would rather give up than try even the most basic solutions. I do not have any proof that projectile spam is useful against any character I've picked up and played. I believe what I have proof in.

 

[elitex12]

Well now suddenly I've encountered a huge amount of people spamming grab... This wouldn't be a big deal to me if they didn't consistently spam Up tilt immediately after grabbing... I don't mean like once a in a combo... I mean CONSTANTLY doing it in a match. Its not like I can't handle it, its just really annoying and boring.

 

[WwwWario]

You have indeed a very good point. Whenever I play against these type of players, and lose, it's SO frustrating, knowing that they're not really good in the first place, and yet they win. It is as you say: It takes practice. I've understood that now, and I think it comes from me (and others) not being used to spammy games, so we don't know how to handle it well. It's often the more "nooby" people who play this way, because, as you say, it's an easy yet effective playstyle. But it IS a PLAYSTYLE. A part of the game. So it just takes practice to learn how to handle it.

I was playing against this Ness the other day who was spamming PK Fire like crazy, and if he hit, he did the Dthrow -> Fair combo. PK fire and rolling was really everything he could do. It was like he didn't know any other move. When I understood he was a spammer, I shortly predicted whenever he was going to send a PK fire. And eventually, I dodged all of his Fires and punished him. GOD that was satisfying, and my mind was just screaming "Now THAT'S what happens when you play like that, you little ****"!"

 

[Kapus]

People can play the game as they like and use whatever tactics they please, as annoying as they might be. There's no specific code or procedure they have to follow, and nobody is entitled to play the way you want them to. It's their game, too. Can that be annoying and unfun sometimes? Sure, but what can you do? You either deal with it or play something else. There's nothing wrong with venting about it now and then, but it won't change people's attitudes.

And that's the long and short of it, really.

 

[LancerStaff]

I'd rather have no footage at all over blurry footage that goes in and out of focus.

Also, I find it funny that there's no one posting footage of zoning characters being punished. Sure there was ZeRo Talks, but Link is really supposed to be a zoning-closeup mix.

1. Set 3DS on a table.
2. Put camera on same table.
3. Line up 3DS screen.
4. Focus camera.
5. Start recording.
6. Play replay.
7. Profit.

Not that hard at all.

 

[Angry Guy of DE]

Get annoyed at garbage Link doing nothing but boomerang > Bow > Roll away or Jump away and Bomb.

Get just out of range of attempted grab and let the gale boomerang bring me close enough for my warlock punch to hit him.

Dude left after the match ended. Can't. Imagine. Why.

 

[Drexxin]

Honestly, for me, I don't condemn spammers -- you should do what you can to win. However, I'll say that I feel it's a little too effective in this game because of the strength of very basic defensive maneuvers like shielding and rolling, which makes 1v1 feel very dull and not very fun.

I don't really feel it's a low skill thing compared to just straight up being unenjoyable. Honestly, I have 120 For Glory matches now with a 75% win rate and i still encounter spammers. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose. I mostly win due to how predictable my opponents are, but I enjoy playing a highly adaptive and competitive game, not essentially a raid boss fight against another player where you go through scripted sequences.

At the end of the day, I can see both sides of the coin. Obviously, spamming is going to be a thing because there's not much AT to punish it and turtling is so ridiculously strong in FG. Unfortunately, all it makes me want to do is play Melee 1v1's more. I'll give it to Smash 4 for being the better multiplayer and party game, but competitively, I'm not really feeling it, at least with online play.

 

[Quillion]

You know something? TVTropes actually came up with a term for this kind of common enemy/opponent that poses no threat but is endlessly annoying anyway.

Goddamned Bats:

The best definition of the Goddamned Bats trope is that they are not only common enemies that will swamp you, and they are not only disgustingly easy to kill on their own, but they are also unsatisfying to fight - they take no skill to defeat, in RPGs they don't provide much (if any) experience or gold when beaten, and they aren't even particularly interesting as enemies, and are sometimes flat-out annoying.

Defensive spammers hilariously parallel these annoying enemies:

• Common? Considering the amount of unskilled players swamping FG, yes.
• Weak and no skill to defeat? Since they're incredibly predictable with their projectiles and rolling, yes.
• Uninteresting to fight? YES.

Now I see the problem: FG needs better matchmaking. It is actually a GOOD thing that roll+projectiles strategies are more effective, since that gives beginning players a starting point to better strategies. If we had better matchmaking, you would never have to run into roll+projectile users anymore since more skilled players would have moved beyond that.

 

[Angry Guy of DE]

I'll take a person that just rolls and spams projectiles almost every time over a person that will roll the dice with G&W's side B.

I've seen 9's show up so frequently and often one right after the other that it almost feels buggy.

 

[Quillion]

I'll take a person that just rolls and spams projectiles almost every time over a person that will roll the dice with G&W's side B.

I've seen 9's show up so frequently and often one right after the other that it almost feels buggy.

Someone here doesn't have a Chuggaaconroy level of luck.

 

[Quillion]

You know something? TVTropes actually came up with a term for this kind of common enemy/opponent that poses no threat but is endlessly annoying anyway.

Goddamned Bats:


Defensive spammers hilariously parallel these annoying enemies:

• Common? Considering the amount of unskilled players swamping FG, yes.
• Weak and no skill to defeat? Since they're incredibly predictable with their projectiles and rolling, yes.
• Uninteresting to fight? YES.

Now I see the problem: FG needs better matchmaking. It is actually a GOOD thing that roll+projectiles strategies are more effective, since that gives beginning players a starting point to better strategies. If we had better matchmaking, you would never have to run into roll+projectile users anymore since more skilled players would have moved beyond that.

...sorry, I just want to repost this because THIS IS THE REAL ISSUE. Everyone's looking at the wrong solution!

 

[Duskinja]

I feel the tactic is more of a "I'm not very good at the game so I'm going to avoid everything you dish out at me until I hit you" type deal. I feel its done even more when the opponent realizes they're losing to you. It bugs me when I'm having a good match and the opponent suddenly decides to "try harder" on me. Luckily I've developed a few strategies to stop this.

 

[Quillion]

I feel the tactic is more of a "I'm not very good at the game so I'm going to avoid everything you dish out at me until I hit you" type deal. I feel its done even more when the opponent realizes they're losing to you. It bugs me when I'm having a good match and the opponent suddenly decides to "try harder" on me. Luckily I've developed a few strategies to stop this.

Right! That's why the matchmaking needs to be fixed; skilled players won't have to be annoyed by the unskilled projectile-roll users.