Seeing a lot of complaints about "spammy" players online, if you're one of those people, listen up..

[RamenKing1]

Stay free guise.

But seriously, these "projectile spammers" are somewhat easy (more easy) and hard to deal with at the same time.
But thats just based off my (somewhat limited) playtime.

See, it's one thing to be able to dodge (easy part of the match)...

Me, personally, I can dodge all I want, but as MegaMan I can only seem to counter their projectiles with projectiles and can't seem to find a way in to KILL (hard part...for me).

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

See, it's one thing to be able to dodge (easy part of the match)...

Me, personally, I can dodge all I want, but as MegaMan I can only seem to counter their projectiles with projectiles and can't seem to find a way in to KILL (hard part...for me).

Yeah, true that

 

[KRBAY]

You aren't as good as you think you are.

As boring as you personally find the play-style to play, your opponent is not striving to excite you. He's striving to beat you. If he sees that beating you is as easy as rolling from edge to edge while repeatedly hitting a projectile, then there is only one person at fault here for losing : you. It could even be that what they're doing is working on you, it's causing you frustration, thus he's winning the mental game. Surely, you understand that the players committing to these strategies would stand no chance versus a competent player. What they're doing is predictable and easy to read. Then there's you, who loses it. That is on you.

Keep training and get better, because before the next time you decide to whine about a "spammy" character or talk about how it's no fun to play against, take a moment to realize that you are losing to it. So what does that make your play style? Maybe you need to show your opponent that such a strategy will not work on you? Maybe your opponent is doing it because it's the easiest, most low-effort method possible that is proving to be effective.

Now if you consistently defeat these types of players and simply are annoyed at their existence because you feel they are irritating and simply provide no outlet for you to improve, that's another discussion. However, if you consistently beat these types of players, it's unlikely you have any issue in the first place. It's a free win to your %. If you're losing though, you need to take a good look at your game, and improve it.

Plot twist: Zipzo is a spammy player.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

As stated before, the problem is not losing against spammy players. It's playing against them.

For example, Link. I play as Zelda, so I have a reflector and a Phantom to protect me. But still, he enjoyed using his bow! I can't recall how many Din's Fire he took in his face...

The problem is the fact it's not entertaining at all. I remember a match where ZSS totally destroyed me as Palutena, but that was fun. The player was skilled. Playing really safely, BUT skilled. That's why I go in for Glory (the skill, not getting destroyed of course )

 

[elitex12]

A stage with 3 platforms like Battlefield can help you with projectile spammers.

For glory mode shouldn't just feature all Final D Versions of stages, it caters to certain characters that excel on flat stages.

While mostly agree, I would just like to point out Sakurai based For Glory on the Japanese competitive scene, where they basically only play FD.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

As stated before, the problem is not losing against spammy players. It's playing against them.

For example, Link. I play as Zelda, so I have a reflector and a Phantom to protect me. But still, he enjoyed using his bow! I can't recall how many Din's Fire he took in his face...

The problem is the fact it's not entertaining at all. I remember a match where ZSS totally destroyed me as Palutena, but that was fun. The player was skilled. Playing really safely, BUT skilled. That's why I go in for Glory (the skill, not getting destroyed of course )

As stated in the OP, if you have no issue defeating them, then this isn't really directed at you.

Complaining about them while simultaneously losing to them under the john that it is somehow cheap or an unfair advantage is the circumstance I am addressing.

I can corroborate with the fact that these types of players are less than interesting to actually fight, and provide a less than optimal experience to train in. It's pretty much worse than using lvl 9 bots which is saying something, but that doesn't give anyone an excuse to lose to it. Drop out after the match (or even mid-match a'la suicide) to get another player? Totally your call, and a viable choice. Lose to it, then go to the forums and complain? Oh no, oh, ho, ho no you don't.

 

[Saikyoshi]

I don't like spammers because they're not giving me the intellectual challenge I came to the mode to do. They're small fries who don't take the art of combat seriously. It just makes me angry, and choose to counterstall and make them suffer with me. (Those dumb ****s always end up shooting themselves through the heart with their own Fsmash eventually.)

I play For Glory to take out my stress, not add another grudge to my huge pile of vindictiveness. Yes, I do have issues, why do you ask?

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

As stated in the OP, if you have no issue defeating them, then this isn't really directed at you.

Complaining about them while simultaneously losing to them under the john that it is somehow cheap or an unfair advantage is the circumstance I am addressing.

I can corroborate with the fact that these types of players are less than interesting to actually fight, and provide a less than optimal experience to train in. It's pretty much worse than using lvl 9 bots which is saying something, but that doesn't give anyone an excuse to lose to it. Drop out after the match (or even mid-match a'la suicide) to get another player? Totally your call, and a viable choice. Lose to it, then go to the forums and complain? Oh no, oh, ho, ho no you don't.

Oh, don't worry, I know it's not directed at me (and other people), I just wanted to contribute to this thread... And show how dumb spam can be sometime (though that common knowledge )

Another example of stupid spam, while I'm at it, is "sneaky side B Greninja"... Especialy when you have a counter move, like

 

[Rhubarbo]

Well, considering the original post and your replies, i am to assume the point of the thread was that you felt like showing how much of a holier-than-thou douche you are?

You should edit the thread´s title so it is easier to figure out.

This guy thinks he's some sort of a community leader because he leaked Smash 4 information. The reason he's so verbose here is because he seemingly can't do anything productive with his soapbox. Instead of finding new techniques or workarounds to camping, he makes detailed posts defending Smash 4 on a conceptual level. I'm sure he's a smart dude, just ignorant about Smash Bros. If he understood Smash Bros., he'd understand that Smash 4 is designed to be forgiving at low level play without considering how any applicable handicaps impact higher level play. E.g. low shield stun makes the game more tolerable for newcomers, but frustrating for skilled players.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

This guy thinks he's some sort of a community leader because he leaked Smash 4 information. The reason he's so verbose here is because he seemingly can't do anything productive with his soapbox. Instead of finding new techniques or workarounds to camping, he makes detailed posts defending Smash 4 on a conceptual level. I'm sure he's a smart dude, just ignorant about Smash Bros. If he understood Smash Bros., he'd understand that Smash 4 is designed to be forgiving at low level play without considering how any applicable handicaps impact higher level play. E.g. low shield stun makes the game more tolerable for newcomers, but frustrating for skilled players.

Why does everyone keep assuming this?

Not sure if you noticed but anyone veteran to this board could tell you I was a a sharp-mouthed poster before the pre-release event. It really has nothing to do with being on a soapbox or trying to utilize the "power" of my voice. I don't designate myself anywhere above anyone on this forum. I am always willing to help the community when I can, but I am opinionated and that is simply how my forum personality has always played out. This speaks more to your inclination to put people down a peg, simply because you don't feel they've earned the right to speak or something, well news for you mate, this is an open forum where everyone is free to their opinion. I share mine in the same way everyone else is free to.

However, I will argue vehemently against your ignorant assumption that I lack an understanding of Smash, I've been playing the game for a very long time (the entire franchise's life span) and that experience doesn't simply disappear because you have an issue with my verbosity.

 

[PeterJude]

I don't like spammers because they're not giving me the intellectual challenge I came to the mode to do. They're small fries who don't take the art of combat seriously. It just makes me angry, and choose to counterstall and make them suffer with me. (Those dumb ****s always end up shooting themselves through the heart with their own Fsmash eventually.)

I play For Glory to take out my stress, not add another grudge to my huge pile of vindictiveness. Yes, I do have issues, why do you ask?

I'm actually yet to face anyone who is outright trying to stall, although there are a few who when on the back foot tend to it.

The funniest one I saw went a stock down quickly, then tried to stall out the match for whatever reason. I just let him in the end, he was so insistent.

Apart from that though, in 80ish matches I've seen 5 sudden deaths, won 4 of them. Surely if the game plan was "well bugger, have a second go at the sudden death" they'd actually had a better plan. I tend to just stay with such players though, and quickly start sending them flying. Though it can be hard some times since I randomise my character.

 

[Vade]

I'm new to the party on this one...but to be honest it isn't to hard to deal with "spammy players" I prefer to refer to them as "poking" player since it is a better term overall. Anyway back on point, the way to beat these kind of players is to just notice their patterns to their spam and try to get close to them, I can recall every time I fought a Duck Hunt when I got close they couldn't do anything to stop me, of course they always tried to gain distance but just get behind their defense either by well-timed dodges or with certain aerial characters. Hell if you really want to make players who poke cry, pick Rosalina I guarantee that you will be able to break them. Also switch up the way you get back onto stage, if you keep doing the same thing to get back on stage (ie. when knocked off trying to get on stage from air and then being pelted by samus b) the enemy is going to have an easy time taking advantage of this predictable move.

TlDR: Switch up your play just in the slightest and keep close quarters while maintaining center stage if possible. Or pick Rosalina.

 

[p4k|wyatt]

You aren't as good as you think you are.

As boring as you personally find the play-style to play, your opponent is not striving to excite you. He's striving to beat you. If he sees that beating you is as easy as rolling from edge to edge while repeatedly hitting a projectile, then there is only one person at fault here for losing : you. It could even be that what they're doing is working on you, it's causing you frustration, thus he's winning the mental game. Surely, you understand that the players committing to these strategies would stand no chance versus a competent player. What they're doing is predictable and easy to read. Then there's you, who loses it. That is on you.

Keep training and get better, because before the next time you decide to whine about a "spammy" character or talk about how it's no fun to play against, take a moment to realize that you are losing to it. So what does that make your play style? Maybe you need to show your opponent that such a strategy will not work on you? Maybe your opponent is doing it because it's the easiest, most low-effort method possible that is proving to be effective.

Now if you consistently defeat these types of players and simply are annoyed at their existence because you feel they are irritating and simply provide no outlet for you to improve, that's another discussion. However, if you consistently beat these types of players, it's unlikely you have any issue in the first place. It's a free win to your %. If you're losing though, you need to take a good look at your game, and improve it.

I completely agree with you, and a lot of the people getting frustrated with spammy players have bad mindsets towards improvment. But,

On the flip side, I have felt a bit of this frustration as well, and I've come to the conclusion it can have something to do with the slight input lag that exists at times. It makes this style of rolling and spot dodging a lot harder to deal with than it is to play against locally.

I experience the same situation playing Street Fighter; I get upset and grumpy at my opponents more often online. Locally, I almost never get frustrated when I get beaten. I think the stigma some players place on spammy "dashers" comes from the feeling of fighting against the game, not your opponent.

 

[LipePereira]

one thing i learned from my times on street fighter: you don't complain about hadoukens, you jump over them and kick them in the face.

same goes for smash, if the other guy is doing the same thing over and over again, that makes it easier, just learn how to counter that and beat them next time

i love leaving bananas for the "run and hit" macs

 

[Rhubarbo]

However, I will argue vehemently against your ignorant assumption that I lack an understanding of Smash, I've been playing the game for a very long time (the entire franchise's life span) and that experience doesn't simply disappear because you have an issue with my verbosity.

You say you've played Smash since forever, and I believe you. I still haven't seen you offer anything but vague enthusiasm for Smash 4. I assume you don't know much about Smash because you champion Smash 4 on a level that shifts issue from universal mechanics to subjective fault. After all, it's markedly more intuitive to criticize an attitude opposed to intricate mechanics. Yes, the folks who cuss about camping have a bad attitude and may not know much about detailed mechanics themselves. This still doesn't mean that the problem of camping rests on their tastelessness.

Many professional players will tell you that camping is a problem in Smash 4, and some may even offer concrete evidence as to why. I'd imagine Mango would just call Smash 4 "gay." Now Leffen, despite his tactlessness and disorganization, has offered concrete reasons as to why Smash 4 is an objectively campy game.

To properly defend Smash 4's gameplay, you should forward concrete solutions to the issues at hand. If camping isn't fundamental, don't just stawman this conclusion, supply evidence against it. Also, if camping is fundamental, frame it in such a way that makes the game look as best as possible. Don't create hypothetical masses as a scapegoat for what is probably an inherent flaw in Smash 4.

You do have a soapbox. The amount effort you spent on leaking Smash 4 info rightfully made you popular around here. I still don't think you have the authority to pass blanket judgement on Smash 4. Maybe if a pro player came around saying camping is our fault, I'd be more inclined to listen to their empty statement.

If you haven't noticed, I like writing a lot too. I have nothing against long-winded posts. I disagree with what you're saying here, though.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

To be honest, I agree with @Zipzo. If camping is proving to be an effective tactic against another player, I doubt anybody is going to stop it. It's not really hard to punish, either. If somebody is going to roll away, just run up and grab them when they stop. If somebody is rolling around you, just go in for a D-Smash. I mean, if you really want to, you can predict where they'll land when they finish rolling (which is pretty easy if they keep rolling around as a momvement option) and punish them with a strong attack.

I mean, I main Kirby. Kirby is probably one of the shortest ranged characters, is one of the slowest characters, and has a pretty bad air speed. Despite all of that, it's extremely easy to punish rolling. If you play any fast characters, you should be able to grab them easily. If you play slow grounded characters that are fast in the air, such as Jigglypuff, punishing with aerials (or rest, if you're feeling it) will work. If you're playing a slow character in general, such as Robin, spacing with his different variations of Thunder and using Arc Thunder would be efficient.

I'm not so sure about camping characters, mainly because, as a Kirby main, I can just copy their ability and out-camp them until they try to rush me and end up failing.

However, I do still think that rolling is a bit too safe. I mean, yes, it's easy to punish, but it's still over the top.

 

[Cornstalk]

I griped about it to myself after fighting Ness, Ness, Megaman, Toon Link, Duck Hunt, Ness, Toon Link, and Ness again all in a row.

All it really did was get me to stop playing online. While camping is always annoying, dealing with it in person usually boils down to "Well that was dumb on my part" or heaven forbid, actually being outplayed. Online has -just- enough lag to it that I really don't want to deal with it.

Every other fight in the short time I've spent online I have seen my attack visual connect on my screen, only to have the game decide their attack actually won out and sent me flying instead. No amount of practice or skill can compensate for weird lag behavior like that, and I certainly don't want to have my timing get all mucked up from online play when the matches that will matter to me will be done in person.

However, I'm glad an online option does exist because there are a lot of players out there who don't have local buddies they can easily play with. It's better than nothing.

 

[SwoodGrommet]

Use a character with a reflector move. Spamming player dies from their own fully charged Charge Shot? Classic.

 

[Nasreth]

Spammers are easy to beat but they can be a chore to play against. I'll beat someone who spams roll into dash attacks and smashes and grabs, but it won't be fun, and don't expect me to stick around after I've beaten you.

Point is, just because something is easy to beat with practice and/or skill doesn't make it fun to play against. Winning isn't everything. So really I disagree with your post and I think we should discourage spam play, especially roll spamming which tends to make games last a lot longer than they should due to online lag and the general safety that accompanies rolling.

 

[RamenKing1]

To be honest, I agree with @Zipzo. If somebody is rolling around you, just go in for a D-Smash.

Ahhhhhhh, it's difficult for me as MegaMan because his D-Smash is so DAMN SLOOOW. A character can roll twice before he's freakin' completed one D-smash... I feel he's really hard to master. ;_;

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Ahhhhhhh, it's difficult for me as MegaMan because his D-Smash is so DAMN SLOOOW. A character can roll twice before he's freakin' completed one D-smash... I feel he's really hard to master. ;_;

Yeah, Mega Man is pretty hard. Try to punish with grabs, and throw out a Metal Blade and Crash Bomb when you can. When they go to shield the Crash Bomb, use a F-Smash to break their shield (Crash Bomb + F-Smash breaks shields), and if they roll back trying to stick it on you, just punish with a grab.

 

[RamenKing1]

Yeah, Mega Man is pretty hard. Try to punish with grabs, and throw out a Metal Blade and Crash Bomb when you can. When they go to shield the Crash Bomb, use a F-Smash to break their shield (Crash Bomb + F-Smash breaks shields), and if they roll back trying to stick it on you, just punish with a grab.

Yep, I definitely grab when I can- but for the kill, I'll have to try the CrashBomb + F-Smash. That seems really good actually.

 

[Roko Jono]

I don't think the problem is spammy characters you can beat. I think the problem eventually becomes spammy characters used by smart players. Lots of games have those kinds of characters who are meant for the range game and some people just like to play those kinds of characters.

When some people say they can beat the spammers easily, think of this: What if YOU played that character? Since you should know how to beat it, you should know how to strengthen it. That should scare you :]

Edit: I say this because just for the hell of it, I tried it myself. I thought daaaaaamnnnn, this is lame, but sooooooo easy

 

[KingCesar]

Back dodge, forward smash repeat 20X. I like the rushing approach when I play, because I find it more fun but when people play with this strategy I tend to lose :/

 

[HylianDuelist]

Its what we call a strategy. Sure you may not like it, but it works.

 

[Shiliski]

I don't think the problem is spammy characters you can beat. I think the problem eventually becomes spammy characters used by smart players. Lots of games have those kinds of characters who are meant for the range game and some people just like to play those kinds of characters.

When some people say they can beat the spammers easily, think of this: What if YOU played that character? Since you should know how to beat it, you should know how to strengthen it. That should scare you :]

Edit: I say this because just for the hell of it, I tried it myself. I thought daaaaaamnnnn, this is lame, but sooooooo easy

How to strengthen it? ... hmm.

Just be smart about it. Using Greninja as an example, he's got some amazing avoidance skills and his upsmash can punish aerial approaches.

Time your shots so that a jumping or dodging opponent will jump or dodge right into them.

Actually know how to use the character's other moves just in case someone gets past your wall of spam.

If you're going to dodge, don't just roll around. Jump and dash sometimes too. As for mobility specials, use 'em if you got 'em.

A good projectile spammer would be Pikachu. Jump + B can be hard to penetrate.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

sure you can counter it, but how about telling them to stop fighting cheap in the first place? Thats like telling a bullied kid "learn to avoid his attacks". That is not going to stop the bully

 

[Roko Jono]

sure you can counter it, but how about telling them to stop fighting cheap in the first place? Thats like telling a bullied kid "learn to avoid his attacks". That is not going to stop the bully

I don't think that would work either... some people just like to cheese

 

[Saikyoshi]

As someone who's had this sentiment myself, I think the main reason that people get angry when they don't know how to deal with campers is the feeling that they've lost against a child. That's not just an ordinary loss that you can get past, that's one of the deepest forms of humiliation when it comes to anything involving strategy. We think we're above such a novice tactic, so we can't comprehend when someone outsmarts us with it, we panic, and we retaliate.

The worst part is, considering Nintendo's target audience, it probably was a child we just lost against.

 

[Vkrm]

Hating the player, not the game. GGs smash community.

 

[Dsull]

Yep, I definitely grab when I can- but for the kill, I'll have to try the CrashBomb + F-Smash. That seems really good actually.

Megaman really only has three reliable killmoves. Chargeshot, meteor fists (down air), or windman's attack (up air).
The air finishers, sadly, have incredibly tiny hitboxes. When they connect its basically auto-win (around 100% or so) but its so hard to hit it.

 

[JanitorOfHyrule]

Words to live by.

 

[MechWarriorNY]

You scrubs. Stop doing this.

DO SOMETHING about it.
tl;dr:.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I don't think that would work either... some people just like to cheese

I think that cheese stinks

You scrubs. Stop doing this.

DO SOMETHING about it.
tl;dr:.

Cant tell if this is a joke but if it isnt and you are the one spamming one attack, maybe you are the one that should "Git Gud" I see it is a joke... ooops. I think that is what people defending this "spamming" fighting style are saying "Git Gud"

 

[MechWarriorNY]

It's not a joke. I'm not an over-competitive crybaby who is compelled to whine about my inadequacy.
You lot need to learn to do the same.
Improve so that this is a non-issue, and quit talking about it, actually lab it up and do it.

Please, someone be a sm4sh kiddie and try to argue that.
Please confirm that that kind of vocal minority still exists.
Go on.

 

[CharZane]

More than anything, I'm astonished that this back-and-forth has elicited no 'settle it in smash' jokes.

How am I the only one who saw that opportunity?

He? I really don't know why you assume all people playing are male. I, for example, am not and it is so annoying when people refer to online players (or players in general) as "he". Gender neutral pronouns exist, you know?

Anyways, I am not a good player, quite the opposite actually, but that doesn't change the fact spammy players are annoying. Yes, they are playing to win and that is fine, but their strategy to win still is sucks and anti-fun. It can't be helped, though, they are going to play whatever way they want, so complaining about those players is pointless.

I think this annoyance is misplaced, actually. It's long been an accepted convention to refer to nonspecific entities as masculine plurals. While 'they' is certainly more respectful, that doesn't mean 'he' needs be overtly offensive, either. Now, if someone insists on calling me, personally, 'he', after being informed otherwise, that's when I see a line that's being crossed, as that's just being intentionally insulting or ignorant. Been playing games online since Starcraft, so I've rather got a good sense for when it's asserting one's self over picking a fight-- but we're here to talk about smash, not political correctness.

I actually love playing against spammy players, though-- gives me a great chance to practice different strategies against the same move repeatedly to see what things do and don't work. If they happen across some move I don't know how to deal with at first, all the better-- just means I don't have to piece together something by theorycrafting 1-2 uses across a dozen games when I can try everything in 1-3. Best way to beat a cannon rush has always been to play against so many of them that it becomes second nature to scout for it, after all...

Actually, I should stick to analogies that're more broad-audience, thinking of it... ._.

 

[RamenKing1]

Megaman really only has three reliable killmoves. Chargeshot, meteor fists (down air), or windman's attack (up air).
The air finishers, sadly, have incredibly tiny hitboxes. When they connect its basically auto-win (around 100% or so) but its so hard to hit it.

His up tilt is actually REALLY good. It kills at 70-105% depending on the weight of the character.

 

[Dsull]

His up tilt is actually REALLY good. It kills at 70-105% depending on the weight of the character.

That is true but u-tilt is easily the hardest tilt to pull off for a lot of people. i find it hard to do it without using it after a combo, which after said combo youre too far from me to utilt and finish anyway.

 

[RamenKing1]

That is true but u-tilt is easily the hardest tilt to pull off for a lot of people. i find it hard to do it without using it after a combo, which after said combo youre too far from me to utilt and finish anyway.

The best time to do it for me, is baiting a dash attack from the opponent, block it, then go straight into my up-tilt.

 

[AstraEDM]

honestly i feel like the online in this game is going to make me so much better at melee and PM because you're FORCED to play patient or you won't succeed
against even fairly decent players rushdown just isn't an option you're going to succeed with
bait+punish game mean