SD Remix - 3.3 Full with Slippi Rollback Released!

[sdremix_troubleshooter]

in playing lots of mewtwo before I thought mewtwo was OP.

in playing and understanding now his moveset is fine... but it seems that I'm always at the 200% percents before I go to impossible to recover

Mewtwo's survivability is currently something I'm keeping a close eye on. Please continue to give me your thoughts on it.

 

[thefifth5]

Can i do netplay with this?

 

[IronChar]

I'm finding the Roy is similar as well- Roy is such a powerhouse though.

we need some kinda mid-level tournament with streaming to really study the game

 

[sdremix_troubleshooter]

Can i do netplay with this?

You should be able to as long as your opponent has SD Remix 3.1 as well. I have never used netplay with Smash so I cannot provide any specifics.

 

[thefifth5]

You should be able to as long as your opponent has SD Remix 3.1 as well. I have never used netplay with Smash so I cannot provide any specifics.

aight thanks fam

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

The more I've thought about this mod and the future of Melee, the more I believe SD Remix is not a replacement for Melee and that it ought to differentiate itself from vanilla. Melee is not perfect, but SD Remix could theoretically be. Everything that is not good in Melee should be made better and this should primarily done in two main areas:

1.) Improving the esthetics

Face it, Melee is an old game and looks dated compared to Smash 4.
This is bad for Melee in general because esthetics are a large part of what
makes a game spectator-friendly. The ideal graphical design out to be logical, in the sense
that the spectators unaware of the intricacies of the game could understand it regardless.
This could be done in a 20xxesque-way of giving subtle yet visible hints such as flash on successful/unsuccessful l-cancels.
The quickest way to do this, would be to play Melee with hitboxes/hurtboxes visible. Perhaps the damage meter could be even replaced with the characters external appearance deteriorating as their damage builds up.
All that being said, Melee's graphical design could definitely be updated and improved upon - imagine if Melee looked like Smash 4. Animations could be a major area of improvement in general. My personal favourite would be a "Button Display Mode" which would require the controller inputs split into the console and the streaming computer - in order for the controller inputs to be displayed to the viewers. Just imagine how fast the knowledge of DI would expand if we could see how top players DI - midmatch! It is interesting to consider the fact that Melee has a massive amount of graphical clues but most of them are too fast to be seen clearly, try watching powershielding in slow motion to see what I am talking about.

2.) Increasing content (Competitive aspect)

This can be as extensive as adding new stages (which has been done) or as minor as allowing more space in player tags. The more recent installments of Smash provide a vast amount of examples of the type of content, such as the ability to modify controller setups. The main focus is the community the product is being catered to, in this case it is the competitive Smash community. So provide all the options other mods like Project M and 20xx Hackpack provide - and more.

I think SD Remix should clearly and visibly differentiate itself from Melee - because that is the only way for this mod to survive and make it big. Reworking the menus would be huge, as well as a new start-screen with the proper SD Remix logo. We are now at a point where there are opportunities for small SD Remix tournaments/weeklies for being organized.

Now to the other viewpoint of this post, which is the future of our community. I believe the original Melee will "die" eventually but the game's concept won't. To put it simply, I am expecting a sequel to Melee at some point in the future. This is assuming that the competitive community will live on for a considerable time to the future. E-sports are already growing fast and Smash has established itself as a competitive franchise to an extent. The sequel of Melee would most likely use the same engine which is a large part of what that makes Melee such an amazing game. The graphics would be on the level of any modern game at the respective time-period, which in our time would mean true HD graphics. As long as there is a demand for gamecube controllers, they will be produced. I am unaware how Melee's metagame will develop but I believe it will stale as a competitive game with it's successor when it comes to versatility in cast. There's a reason why Melee's meta is the way it is today, there are many characters in the game that lessen your chances of winning the moment you let go of the button - this should never be the case in a competitive game and only criteria for a choice ought to be one of mere preference.

 

[thefifth5]

The more I've thought about this mod and the future of Melee, the more I believe SD Remix is not a replacement for Melee and that it ought to differentiate itself from vanilla. Melee is not perfect, but SD Remix could theoretically be. Everything that is not good in Melee should be made better and this should primarily done in two main areas:

1.) Improving the esthetics

Face it, Melee is an old game and looks dated compared to Smash 4.
This is bad for Melee in general because esthetics are a large part of what
makes a game spectator-friendly. The ideal graphical design out to be logical, in the sense
that the spectators unaware of the intricacies of the game could understand it regardless.
This could be done in a 20xxesque-way of giving subtle yet visible hints such as flash on successful/unsuccessful l-cancels.
The quickest way to do this, would be to play Melee with hitboxes/hurtboxes visible. Perhaps the damage meter could be even replaced with the characters external appearance deteriorating as their damage builds up.
All that being said, Melee's graphical design could definitely be updated and improved upon - imagine if Melee looked like Smash 4. Animations could be a major area of improvement in general. My personal favourite would be a "Button Display Mode" which would require the controller inputs split into the console and the streaming computer - in order for the controller inputs to be displayed to the viewers. Just imagine how fast the knowledge of DI would expand if we could see how top players DI - midmatch! It is interesting to consider the fact that Melee has a massive amount of graphical clues but most of them are too fast to be seen clearly, try watching powershielding in slow motion to see what I am talking about.

2.) Increasing content (Competitive aspect)

This can be as extensive as adding new stages (which has been done) or as minor as allowing more space in player tags. The more recent installments of Smash provide a vast amount of examples of the type of content, such as the ability to modify controller setups. The main focus is the community the product is being catered to, in this case it is the competitive Smash community. So provide all the options other mods like Project M and 20xx Hackpack provide - and more.

I think SD Remix should clearly and visibly differentiate itself from Melee - because that is the only way for this mod to survive and make it big. Reworking the menus would be huge, as well as a new start-screen with the proper SD Remix logo. We are now at a point where there are opportunities for small SD Remix tournaments/weeklies for being organized.

Now to the other viewpoint of this post, which is the future of our community. I believe the original Melee will "die" eventually but the game's concept won't. To put it simply, I am expecting a sequel to Melee at some point in the future. This is assuming that the competitive community will live on for a considerable time to the future. E-sports are already growing fast and Smash has established itself as a competitive franchise to an extent. The sequel of Melee would most likely use the same engine which is a large part of what that makes Melee such an amazing game. The graphics would be on the level of any modern game at the respective time-period, which in our time would mean true HD graphics. As long as there is a demand for gamecube controllers, they will be produced. I am unaware how Melee's metagame will develop but I believe it will stale as a competitive game with it's successor when it comes to versatility in cast. There's a reason why Melee's meta is the way it is today, there are many characters in the game that lessen your chances of winning the moment you let go of the button - this should never be the case in a competitive game and only criteria for a choice ought to be one of mere preference.

(It's spelled aesthetics )

I think it would be good for SDR if there were characters that did well against the high tiers. Like if (random example) Ness for some reason beat Fox and Falco, but still struggled a lot against Marth and Peach or whatever.

 

[Quillion]

The more I've thought about this mod and the future of Melee, the more I believe SD Remix is not a replacement for Melee and that it ought to differentiate itself from vanilla. Melee is not perfect, but SD Remix could theoretically be. Everything that is not good in Melee should be made better and this should primarily done in two main areas:

1.) Improving the esthetics

Face it, Melee is an old game and looks dated compared to Smash 4.
This is bad for Melee in general because esthetics are a large part of what
makes a game spectator-friendly. The ideal graphical design out to be logical, in the sense
that the spectators unaware of the intricacies of the game could understand it regardless.
This could be done in a 20xxesque-way of giving subtle yet visible hints such as flash on successful/unsuccessful l-cancels.
The quickest way to do this, would be to play Melee with hitboxes/hurtboxes visible. Perhaps the damage meter could be even replaced with the characters external appearance deteriorating as their damage builds up.
All that being said, Melee's graphical design could definitely be updated and improved upon - imagine if Melee looked like Smash 4. Animations could be a major area of improvement in general. My personal favourite would be a "Button Display Mode" which would require the controller inputs split into the console and the streaming computer - in order for the controller inputs to be displayed to the viewers. Just imagine how fast the knowledge of DI would expand if we could see how top players DI - midmatch! It is interesting to consider the fact that Melee has a massive amount of graphical clues but most of them are too fast to be seen clearly, try watching powershielding in slow motion to see what I am talking about.

2.) Increasing content (Competitive aspect)

This can be as extensive as adding new stages (which has been done) or as minor as allowing more space in player tags. The more recent installments of Smash provide a vast amount of examples of the type of content, such as the ability to modify controller setups. The main focus is the community the product is being catered to, in this case it is the competitive Smash community. So provide all the options other mods like Project M and 20xx Hackpack provide - and more.

I think SD Remix should clearly and visibly differentiate itself from Melee - because that is the only way for this mod to survive and make it big. Reworking the menus would be huge, as well as a new start-screen with the proper SD Remix logo. We are now at a point where there are opportunities for small SD Remix tournaments/weeklies for being organized.

Now to the other viewpoint of this post, which is the future of our community. I believe the original Melee will "die" eventually but the game's concept won't. To put it simply, I am expecting a sequel to Melee at some point in the future. This is assuming that the competitive community will live on for a considerable time to the future. E-sports are already growing fast and Smash has established itself as a competitive franchise to an extent. The sequel of Melee would most likely use the same engine which is a large part of what that makes Melee such an amazing game. The graphics would be on the level of any modern game at the respective time-period, which in our time would mean true HD graphics. As long as there is a demand for gamecube controllers, they will be produced. I am unaware how Melee's metagame will develop but I believe it will stale as a competitive game with it's successor when it comes to versatility in cast. There's a reason why Melee's meta is the way it is today, there are many characters in the game that lessen your chances of winning the moment you let go of the button - this should never be the case in a competitive game and only criteria for a choice ought to be one of mere preference.

And Vietgeek and Achilles were already talking about combining 20XX and SDR (20XRemiX?) if I'm not mistaken (though they could only be adding the option for SDR and keeping SDR separate for all I know).

But to implement all the stuff you want, there needs to be a lot more ASM hackers in the Melee workshop, and Achilles seems to be the only one of any note right now.

If only we could recruit more of PMDT, maybe they could lend us support.

 

[IronChar]

dude... the "melee 2.0" people have been wanting for sooo long....

this is it.

Nintendos not gonna do it. hell sakurai is DONE with the smash series after smash 4.

SDR doesn't need much else to be the ultimate melee experience... perhaps a few basic costume rips from project m or something (black roy, purple marth, black mewtwo, neon G&W, etc) easier access to activate game change codes (IE has shown us an example here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxHmLvVxLx0) and minor stuff (like stock control easier crew battles, better AI, all star versus if possible) This game is as close to "prefect melee" as its gonna get.

and damn, smash has never been this fun. the community will be rocked- hell my guys hate on me when I say this is the future of smash

 

[Quillion]

dude... the "melee 2.0" people have been wanting for sooo long....

this is it.

Nintendos not gonna do it. hell sakurai is DONE with the smash series after smash 4.

He's been saying that since Melee; Nintendo's going to force him to stick with Smash forever and he'll just have to stop himself from whining about it.

and damn, smash has never been this fun. the community will be rocked- hell my guys hate on me when I say this is the future of smash

Getting the Smash community as a whole to recognize SDR is going to take a lot more aggression.

Now, for @ Ripple and @ sdremix_troubleshooter : Why are Falcon and the ICs changed? The official backroom tier list lists both of them as top-tier characters, and we may be on the verge of another tier list due to further evolution of the meta. Did you change the characters based on an outdated tier list?

 

[Ripple]

ICs hitboxs didn't match their hammer, I'd really consider that a fix rather than a change.

and to be honest, its pretty clear falcon is just as viable as yoshi or possibly worse and has been for the past 2 years. if it were up to me, I'd change falcon more. My upsmash that I gave him would clearly make him the best character in the game, so I could settle for less

 

[_glook]

So guys, recently we held a tournament at Berkeley. The link to the tournament is here:
http://smashboards.com/threads/feb-...union-twoer-berkeley-ca.388989/#post-18480229

SD Remix was present and I recorded a whole whack of matches. I'll slowly be getting them out there in the coming week(s?) but the grand final were streamed. It was Laudandus (Mewtwo) vs mooninite (Kirby) and the twitch past broadcast is here:
http://www.twitch.tv/smashatberkeley/b/622414282
The Grand Finals starts around 3:51:20. Only the grand finals of SD Remix were streamed.
I'll make sure to post a playlist to the other vids here too when I'm done.

Edit: Oh and if you start a bit earlier (I think 3:50:00), you can listen to Toph talk about his experience with SD Remix.
There's also some more commentary a little after the 3:00:00 mark (maybe 5 minutes after?). It's not much, but yeah.

Edit 2:

aight thanks fam

I've done netplay. As long as all players have the same iso, it works pretty much like playing regular Melee on netplay. I've gotten it to work. Basically, you get SD Remix to work the same way you get Melee to work, except with a different ISO.

 

[Quillion]

Damn, I wish I knew where my university's Smash club was. I could expose them to some SDR there if I could.

 

[Quillion]

So according to this video,

Bowser used to have an explosion effect on his F-smash but it doesn't look like he has it anymore.

Why get rid of that? (admittedly I kinda like it because it brings it in line with the similar Balanced Brawl [which I enjoy more than Smash U TBH]).

 

[Ripple]

It got to the point where we tried copying pm for cool stuff and our balance. We didn't want that so we removed stuff.

Gannon also had darkness on fair and electric on bair in a test build

 

[oksas]

ICs hitboxs didn't match their hammer, I'd really consider that a fix rather than a change.

and to be honest, its pretty clear falcon is just as viable as yoshi or possibly worse and has been for the past 2 years. if it were up to me, I'd change falcon more. My upsmash that I gave him would clearly make him the best character in the game, so I could settle for less

I don't suppose you would mind sharing this? sounds pretty amazing to me heh

 

[sdremix_troubleshooter]

SD Remix was present and I recorded a whole whack of matches. I'll slowly be getting them out there in the coming week(s?) but the grand final were streamed. It was Laudandus (Mewtwo) vs mooninite (Kirby) and the twitch past broadcast is here:
http://www.twitch.tv/smashatberkeley/b/622414282
The Grand Finals starts around 3:51:20. Only the grand finals of SD Remix were streamed.
I'll make sure to post a playlist to the other vids here too when I'm done.

Looking forward to the uploads _glook. Very happy that you organized this event for SDR.

I watched the matches. mooninite should try using Side-B to challenge the Nair sometimes. Furthermore, on Usmash, you can either dashdance into dash attack or Fsmash. Other than that, excellent play by both characters. I anticipate more answers to these strong options.

 

[Quillion]

I don't suppose you would mind sharing this? sounds pretty amazing to me heh

VietGeek (sdremix_troubleshooter) is kinda against changing characters too much, though. I'm not sure if he'll allow it (and it will lead to conflict between him and Ripple if the latter intends for its inclusion).

It got to the point where we tried copying pm for cool stuff and our balance. We didn't want that so we removed stuff.

Wait, who did that first? PM or BBrawl?

 

[oksas]

ah. I didn't mean to suggest putting it in sdremix, more like if he would be open to sharing that particular dat file. definitely don't mean to step on anyone's toes haha

 

[sdremix_troubleshooter]

Wait, who did that first? PM or BBrawl?

It was most definitely BBrawl that added the explosion effect onto Bowser's Fsmash first.

 

[Quillion]

It was most definitely BBrawl that added the explosion effect onto Bowser's Fsmash first.

Well, I don't think copying BBrawl (animations/hitbox-wise) would hurt SDR in any way, since BBrawl does for Brawl what SDR does for Melee.

 

[_glook]

Looking forward to the uploads _glook. Very happy that you organized this event for SDR.

I watched the matches. mooninite should try using Side-B to challenge the Nair sometimes. Furthermore, on Usmash, you can either dashdance into dash attack or Fsmash. Other than that, excellent play by both characters. I anticipate more answers to these strong options.

Thanks! For almost all the entrants, save for maybe 3 people, they'd never played SD Remix before, and that had a lot to do with people not using all of the tools for their characters, though I was still surprised how well people in general picked up on it. I remember Brandandorf expressing some regret in not using the spot dodge or the invincibility on the dash attack. Hopefully people will be open to playing this more. There were people in the mid levels that were meh about the whole thing, probably because they were using top six and weren't at all used to some of the new matchups. I overheard one guy complaining about how young link still sucks and has nothing and I was thinking, "Dude, read the changelist!". I remember one top player ended up dropping out because he wasn't feeling it. But most of the top players, including Laudandus, mooninite, Snap, Brandandorf, ZeldaFreak, Delphiki, and Toph seemed to all enjoy it, and there was some genuine excitement for grand finals. I'm really happy how it turned out.

I think Laudandus's Mewtwo is influencing a lot of initial reaction, because there was a lot of talk about how Mewtwo is top tier now . I also saw a LOT of Pichus.

I've started uploading Singles Bracket and Singles Friendlies to Youtube, I'll start Doubles after that. I'll also probably end up uploading the streamed match to Youtube as well so we can have a more permanent home for grand finals. Here's the link to the playlist: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLpheeULjhdrWO5owmQtbX8cZddriq7K3j

 

[Quillion]

Thanks! For almost all the entrants, save for maybe 3 people, they'd never played SD Remix before, and that had a lot to do with people not using all of the tools for their characters, though I was still surprised how well people in general picked up on it. I remember Brandandorf expressing some regret in not using the spot dodge or the invincibility on the dash attack. Hopefully people will be open to playing this more. There were people in the mid levels that were meh about the whole thing, probably because they were using top six and weren't at all used to some of the new matchups. I overheard one guy complaining about how young link still sucks and has nothing and I was thinking, "Dude, read the changelist!". I remember one top player ended up dropping out because he wasn't feeling it. But most of the top players, including Laudandus, mooninite, Snap, Brandandorf, ZeldaFreak, Delphiki, and Toph seemed to all enjoy it, and there was some genuine excitement for grand finals. I'm really happy how it turned out.

I think Laudandus's Mewtwo is influencing a lot of initial reaction, because there was a lot of talk about how Mewtwo is top tier now . I also saw a LOT of Pichus.

I've started uploading Singles Bracket and Singles Friendlies to Youtube, I'll start Doubles after that. I'll also probably end up uploading the streamed match to Youtube as well so we can have a more permanent home for grand finals. Here's the link to the playlist: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLpheeULjhdrWO5owmQtbX8cZddriq7K3j

Looking at those matches, it seems that Bowser either needs more attack speed or Super Armor. Until the coding for adding Super Armor is figured out, I guess you'll have to go with attack speed.

 

[sdremix_troubleshooter]

Honestly, Bowser is fine. I wouldn't take that tournament footage as indicative of the game.

Pichu didn't even get top 3!

 

[_glook]

Honestly, Bowser is fine. I wouldn't take that tournament footage as indicative of the game.

Pichu didn't even get top 3!

Not for lack of trying, though. Delphiki, Toph, and a few other players were all playing Pichu.
SpookyMan played Bowser, though, and he did pretty good.

I like how the Facebook thread for the tournament on "Official Norcal Melee" is pretty much only talk about SD Remix.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

Pichu actually has a lot of weaknesses and he does take some skill to use. He's light, he's techs are terrible and he's recovery can be edge-guarded to an extent. Moreover, unless you know how to up-b properly you are prone to SDs. He is a true glass cannon and will take some time to be developed.

 

[_glook]

The thing I see the most outside of people marveling at how much better their character is how good Pichu has gotten. He/she is easily the most popular character in SD Remix amongst the people I've shown. I'm pretty sure it's because Pichu, I think, has had the most improvement in how fun it is the play as. I think it's along the same lines as how people really like Falcon as a character, and I think SD Pichu brings the same type of atmosphere to it.

 

[TTTTTsd]

His weaknesses are very pronounced but I think regardless he's still a very strong character. They're clear weaknesses that require player skill to get around but once you do...man he opens up.

That and he's HELLA fun.

 

[Quillion]

SDR Pichu seems to be like Street Fighter 3.2 Sean. Meant to be a joke, but really good.

So are we in agreement that Pichu is the face of SDR, now? I think I'll change my signature.

 

[Jaedrik]

I agree with Toph. Pichu's neutral is hard due to range. Add that to the list of Pichu just being a light Captain Falcon, and we'll call it a day saying he's balanced... aye?

 

[Ripple]

in only people used my pichu...

hidden boss character

interruptable teleport, thunderjolt lasts 10 seconds, still has OP side-b

 

[_glook]

I think it's going to take a lot longer for the metagame to develop before we can tell whether anybody is balanced.

Edit: Given the 0 to death combo here, I'm surprised this Roy didn't make it further into Singles: http://youtu.be/sI-TzPb1Dlc?t=4m44s

 

[Quillion]

I think it's going to take a lot longer for the metagame to develop before we can tell whether anybody is balanced.

Edit: Given the 0 to death combo here, I'm surprised this Roy didn't make it further into Singles: http://youtu.be/sI-TzPb1Dlc?t=4m44s

At least SDR was finally able to make waves, thanks to you.

 

[_glook]

I just finished uploading the rest of the videos. I also reorganized them a bit too.

The playlist in general goes from the top of the bracket (highest level matches) to the bottom (earlier rounds). The first chunk of videos are all from the SD Remix Singles, followed by the second chunk of SD Remix Doubles. After that are a bunch of SD Remix friendlies (they were all 1v1 friendlies). I just want to say, the friendlies were quite entertaining to watch, because it certainly felt like they were trying out new things with characters and that resulted in some very funny or awesome stuff. At the tail end of the playlist is an interview with Ralph talking about the Melee bracket, but at the end, Toph does a Q&A and talks about his opinions on SD Remix. The last two videos are the Grand Finals of the SD Remix tournament with commentary from Toph and Warwick Foe.

Here's the link to the playlist one more time: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLpheeULjhdrWO5owmQtbX8cZddriq7K3j

Hope you guys enjoy the videos. I had a ton of fun at the tourney and hope other tourneys will start making SD Remix one of their events, too.

 

[Deleted member]

idk why I haven't posted in here yet, but

I really like SD Remix. I downloaded it a month or two ago, and I play it with other smash players (mainly hamyojo.) This **** is really, really cool. I wish there were tournaments for this, because I love what you guys did <3

 

[Quillion]

Hey @ sdremix_troubleshooter and @ Ripple , if you're going to SEMI-combine with @ Achilles1515 's 20XX project, are you going to make "re-balanced" versions of ?

It would be unfair if everyone except those six have alternate SDR versions (you only need to include them for 20XX+SDR not SDR standalone). Plus all those six do have bad moves in vMelee and you can make it so that all of them have only good moves and that their vMelee OP moves are good but not OP.

 

[sdremix_troubleshooter]

(you only need to include them for 20XX+SDR not SDR standalone).

There are no plans to make any adjustments to the currently unchanged characters. We will not provide special versions exclusively for 20XX. Such a consideration would complicate running tournaments for SD Remix, not to mention it would send mixed signals as to what are SD Remix's project goals and intentions.

 

[Achilles1515]

Hey @ sdremix_troubleshooter and @ Ripple , if you're going to SEMI-combine with @ Achilles1515 's 20XX project, are you going to make "re-balanced" versions of ?

It would be unfair if everyone except those six have alternate SDR versions (you only need to include them for 20XX+SDR not SDR standalone). Plus all those six do have bad moves in vMelee and you can make it so that all of them have only good moves and that their vMelee OP moves are good but not OP.

I would like to include "modified" player files for these characters...because why not. Their vanilla versions will be selectable as well. For Fox and Falco's modified files, I currently have their shines swapped. But I have nothing for the other four....

And I definitely need a Giga Bowser and modified wireframes as well. There was a post a long time ago, I forget from who, that stated how he just lost all his Melee files and previously had a "skull kid" character that was a scaled down giga bowser with a bunch of move swap/hitbox changes done to it. Sounded really awesome.

Ripple, do you have a modified Sheik for sale?

 

[sdremix_troubleshooter]

@ Achilles1515 Ripple does have a Sheik .dat where the original Fsmash was replaced with the animation of the Fan item Fsmash. It looks really cool, truth be told.

 

[Ripple]

Finally... My time to shine.

I could also give beta SDR sheik if Geek remembers that. HeheHehe. Spike d-throw

I've had a peach on the back burner for awhile that has a faster double jump and revised turnip odds.

I literally have nothing for Jiggs since her other animations are crap. I could do what I did for a beta melee minus that bair hits reversed so you can bair to restrest but rest in much weaker.

And for marth I suppose I could swap some animations or something... Or make shield breaker actually break shields