Santa Barbara / San Luis Obispo Smash: Smash Club this Tuesday at HFH @ 8 pm

[DanteFox]

i like to think you're a smart guy. well, "smart" and "intelligent" is overused, so i dunno if you're smart. i like to think you're not dumb, though.

quit with the condescension and just address the issue at hand.

you're (knowingly or unknowingly) being intellectually dishonest cause i never said that proves silentswag (god what a terrible name) is above that.

Then why bring up the point at all? Because I could be wrong? So what? Anyone could be wrong. You could be wrong, I could be wrong, we could both be wrong! Again just address the issue.

but the fact he got 9th at a major, beating a great fox (amongst others; brackets never came out so you're free to troll with the "but who did he beat?" mantra, even though i don't think you know who he beat and lost to [if you do please share!]) means it's a safe assumption to say he is above that.

That's what I'm saying. We don't know who he beat so, from what I've seen, I don't see how he could have placed so high barring an easy bracket.

i mean, do you really wanna know how good he is or do you just want to stir up ****? i'm sure you could learn more by asking people who played him how good he is... he's not some unknown who's been playing for a week or something, he's been around the pittsburgh scene for a minute; i'm sure a lot of tri-state players know of him.

I do want to know but I don't want to hear about it. I want to see it.

what does "nowadays" means? because one thing time has shown is that no one quits. they may not play as often, to varying degrees, but even pc chris came back after a long layoff. even koreandj came back. i can think of a lot of good sheiks: sheikSSBM, lucien, kira, alukard, tec0, reno, drephen, matt r, overtriforce, to go along with the names you mentioned.

in order:
sheikSSBM: who da heck is that,
lucien: good, but hasn't been playing lately,
kira: doesn't play anymore,
alukard: lol no,
tec0: yeah I forgot about tec0 my bad,
reno: nah,
drephen: he's aight,
matt r: haven't seen vids of him
overtriforce: yeah he's good I forgot about him.

your perceptions have a lot to do with how you evaluate these players. what are you looking at when you see these matches?

simple: efficiency of getting kills balanced against ability to stay alive and not get killed.

to me the most important thing is recognizing just how fast this game is. it's 60 fps and i believe youtube vids only go up to 30 fps. (maybe i'm wrong?) simply being able to keep up with the speed of the game v other high level players (which redd, and silent swag, are in reality, whether you choose to admit it or not) is impressive. i dunno how much experience you have in playing elite players but youtube does them little justice.

That's definitely true. Seeing pros play in person is more instructive than watching vids.

i'll rewatch the set right now and tell you the little things i notice that tells me redd/ss are two very good players:

:40 SS dashes forward and shields fox's nair, a demonstration of great reflexes
:45 good spacing on that nair from redd (follows up with a jab, too, which is specific because of the spacing; if he's a little bit closer a jab would be terrible), baits a roll
:55 a really good manipulation by SS of his opponent's timing
1:13 going for that KK fair lol. sure, he messes up but it shows you how well he sees the game
1:22 he misses a nair OOS (along with a lot of other rusty, pressure-related things i've heretofore ignored)
1:47 is proof he just missed it (rather than not being capable of it)
1:51 very sexy shield drop
2:09-2:24 may look sloppy but ss knows there's no point throwing **** out v fox at low percents because you'll just get your **** pushed in. he's exercising good patience by waiting to connect with moves that can't be counterattacked. and 2:25 is a standard response to bthrowing fox off: default choice for sheik is usually to jump out and fair, bair or nair.
now SS has taken over momentum and rightly switches up his style to become more aggressive. he keeps control for a good 30 seconds and barely messes up an edge guard. but he's smart enough to know not to press his luck and doesnt jump into fox's nair and instead plays the wd back aka i'm a ****** *** sheik a la kira (which, as m2k goes to show you, is probably the optimal way to play sheik, a defensive character, so i'm not hating)

also i can tell you from experience how scary that is from fox's perspective. you think you're facing some nooby campy *** defensive sheik so you're used to being in control, but as soon as sheik gets that one opening you get nervous as ****. that is where being slow and patient comes into handy because even if you've only linked 2-3 moves together over a 20 second span, it feels like eons to your opponent, and the longer you keep it up the more likely the fox is gonna do something stupid, get edge guarded, and be looking at an even match.

2:50 i woulda ran off and faired (aka the sherigami) but a needle is pretty cool too

1:40 redd forward throws toward the center of the stage when shiek is at low percent. fail.
1:48 side b towards sheik who's waiting in the middle of the stage. bad habit.
stuff like that sprinkled throughout the match but whatever,
5:13 last stock of game one, redd only need one more combo to take it. SS starts camping. Stupid. redd does the right thing and lasers from the other end of the stage. If SS is gonna camp when he's losing, that just makes victory that much easier for redd. He doesn't fall for it, but then
5:42 he gets a combo, gets overzealous and makes a critical mistake. For all intents and purposes, redd lost that game.

Second game SS legitimately outplays redd

Third game redd does a bunch of stupid spacing stuff like standing still too much and getting back on the ledge when he didn't need to.

Still not impressed.

i'll stop now cuz i'm bored and if you don't get the point by now i rescind any notions of optimism re your intelligence. i dunno wtf you're noticing (or not noticing) but if you truly believe in your convictions i'd implore you to go out on a limb, talk a lot of ****, challenge players you aren't impressed with to money matches, and get butt****ed in front of a large audience like i did if that's what it takes for you to realize you are subject to margin of error and should probably stfu and humble yourself before it's too late

yeah whatever.

 

[unknownPresence]

empathy goes a long way

lol yea ill giv that to ya

appeal to authority? who cares. my name and sig say more than enough imo.

lmao its not an appeal to authority bc if u read my post ud know that i care for my own edification and curiousity and i am in no way using that to stregthen or support any of my arguments

is clear cut to me.

then we are arguing opinions here which is pointless

depends. i'm an average smasher too and it's definitely not a compliment to me. -shrugs-

lol ur right apathy does go a long way

i don't know what you're saying but from what i could gather it was definitely not what i was saying

read more closely because i didnt. im very particular with how i phrase things so i can guarantee you i didnt.

i think ur goin to hav to read what u wrote more closely bc read it again so obviously i missing something bc its not very concise (at least to me)

ur almost def trolling dante but w/e

redd is an amazing fox. sounds like you think you're as good as redd or something. do you comfortably beat joey? i doubt either of you comfortably beat each other. you should recognize that your guys' skill level is the average skill level of players nowadays (or worse). you're fooling yourselves if u think any differently

and as a result you should recognize that your margin of error re: judging other players' skill is quite high, because there's a significant chance your assessments would change when/if you ever became significantly better

in any case i dont know why you're a fan of being abrasive. hope u grow up tho

first point made- we are average or lower skilled level players

second point- as a result [of the first point] we have a "high margin of error"
high margin of error of what?

and i guess this is where i got confused bc u dont rlly finish ur thought and skip to an entirely new one or at least u dont explain why we should recognize our margin of error

 

[Apathy]

lmao its not an appeal to authority bc if u read my post ud know that i care for my own edification and curiousity and i am in no way using that to stregthen or support any of my arguments

my question mark wasnt facetious but in any case i'm a formerly ranked player.

then we are arguing opinions here which is pointless

i dont agree but w/e, let's agree to disagree

and i guess this is where i got confused bc u dont rlly finish ur thought and skip to an entirely new one or at least u dont explain why we should recognize our margin of error

you said:

"ur saying we judge others highly bc of our average skill"

i'm not saying you (we) judge others highly because we're average.

we all have a margin of error because we're freaking human. and a prime example of being human in this case is being an average player. that is an appeal to authority but it's also a useful proxy for experience. in this case i think dante's lack of experience (amongst other things) is glaring and makes him sound like a youtube noob.

i engaged him because he's from SOCAL and i was bored but he's now proven himself a youtube noob so he gets ignored like the rest of the youtube noobs (unless i'm in a particularly nasty mood and feel like trolling him, but i digress).

in any case unknown presence thank you for engaging in conversation like a respectful human being

joey leung add me on facebook noob i'm adam c madison

 

[DanteFox]

^^^ looks like copouts galore to me. If you're not going to argue my points and just resort to appeals to authority and ad hominems, then I guess I'm not disappointed.

 

[joejoe22802]

P, can't find you.

 

[Apathy]

SWF has a really good ignore feature. on other message boards you get a "this post is written by [name], who is on your ignore list. click if you would like to view it" but here, although i can see you're responsible for the most recent post, i cannot see any hint of its existence once i open the thread.

so if my attention (and subsequent engagement in conversation) towards your post holds any value to you, maybe next time it will cause you to re-think how you talk to people.

ignoring someone is always the most powerful treatment you can exercise towards someone. WHERE ATTENTION GOES, ENERGY GOES. that's why negative people are considered psychic ****ing vampires. what's that quote from community? "you're a fun vampire. normal vampires suck blood. you just suck."

holla!

 

[DanteFox]

the ignore list is the great internet bastion for intellectual cowards. Can't ignore list people in real life, dude! Better to learn to deal with disagreement directly.

 

[SUNG475]

Man, that Kermit always gets to me.

I generally dislike watching videos and the only times I would watch is for myself, my friends, or watching the elites (mango m2k armada pp etc...)
That said, I stumbled upon redd vs ss and eh I admit I just watched the beginning and quickly dismissed it, imo wasn't impressed or anything and I didn't feel like it would have improved my game.

 

[unknownPresence]

my question mark wasnt facetious but in any case i'm a formerly ranked player.

from context of recent posts i figured out who u are, and idk i regard u as slightly above average -shrugs-

i dont agree but w/e, let's agree to disagree

agreed

you said:

"ur saying we judge others highly bc of our average skill"

i'm not saying you (we) judge others highly because we're average.

we all have a margin of error because we're freaking human. and a prime example of being human in this case is being an average player. that is an appeal to authority but it's also a useful proxy for experience. in this case i think dante's lack of experience (amongst other things) is glaring and makes him sound like a youtube noob.

all right i understand everything except for the appeal to authority part. i agree with all points made bc as u said we're human but where is the appeal to authority?

in any case unknown presence thank you for engaging in conversation like a respectful human being

np, i enjoy convos like this bc i always learn something ^^

 

[curt992]

Is anyone showing up to the fighting game club tonight?

 

[Apathy]

idk i regard u as slightly above average -shrugs-

if i am it's cuz i'm from SOCAL!

all right i understand everything except for the appeal to authority part. i agree with all points made bc as u said we're human but where is the appeal to authority?

that was like a pre-emptive strike. you could have some pro come in and say silentswag is the dopest, and in one sense it would be fallacious to say, "alright it's settled boys."

iono if you watch basketball but it's like how every freaking professional related to basketball will say kobe is the best player, the most clutch player, even though they're wrong by literally every objective measure known to man. and how in general ex-players may not know ****, may not be able to articulate what they know, and/or may be forced to dumb down what they do know by directive from their bosses because obviously fans must be force-fed a convenient, but unnuanced, narrative. in case it's more accurate to go "appeal to authority" and leave it at that.

 

[unknownPresence]

if i am it's cuz i'm from SOCAL!

haha way to represent

that was like a pre-emptive strike. you could have some pro come in and say silentswag is the dopest, and in one sense it would be fallacious to say, "alright it's settled boys."

iono if you watch basketball but it's like how every freaking professional related to basketball will say kobe is the best player, the most clutch player, even though they're wrong by literally every objective measure known to man. and how in general ex-players may not know ****, may not be able to articulate what they know, and/or may be forced to dumb down what they do know by directive from their bosses because obviously fans must be force-fed a convenient, but unnuanced, narrative. in case it's more accurate to go "appeal to authority" and leave it at that.

i get that, but no pro did come here, so was the premeptive strike just to prevent anything like that from happening or was that an actual case of that used in any arguments?

 

[Apathy]

no i thought you were just gonna use it against me

 

[unknownPresence]

gotcha fun discussion ^^

 

[Redd]

quit with the condescension and just address the issue at hand.
Then why bring up the point at all? Because I could be wrong? So what? Anyone could be wrong. You could be wrong, I could be wrong, we could both be wrong! Again just address the issue.
That's what I'm saying. We don't know who he beat so, from what I've seen, I don't see how he could have placed so high barring an easy bracket.

I do want to know but I don't want to hear about it. I want to see it.

in order:
sheikSSBM: who da heck is that,
lucien: good, but hasn't been playing lately,
kira: doesn't play anymore,
alukard: lol no,
tec0: yeah I forgot about tec0 my bad,
reno: nah,
drephen: he's aight,
matt r: haven't seen vids of him
overtriforce: yeah he's good I forgot about him.
simple: efficiency of getting kills balanced against ability to stay alive and not get killed.
That's definitely true. Seeing pros play in person is more instructive than watching vids.
1:40 redd forward throws toward the center of the stage when shiek is at low percent. fail.
1:48 side b towards sheik who's waiting in the middle of the stage. bad habit.
stuff like that sprinkled throughout the match but whatever,
5:13 last stock of game one, redd only need one more combo to take it. SS starts camping. Stupid. redd does the right thing and lasers from the other end of the stage. If SS is gonna camp when he's losing, that just makes victory that much easier for redd. He doesn't fall for it, but then
5:42 he gets a combo, gets overzealous and makes a critical mistake. For all intents and purposes, redd lost that game.

Second game SS legitimately outplays redd

Third game redd does a bunch of stupid spacing stuff like standing still too much and getting back on the ledge when he didn't need to.

Still not impressed.

yeah whatever.

Lol damn, going in.

My tech was pretty terrible all day at RoM. Lots of costly mistakes that I don't usually (hopefully) make. Just make sure you know that it's not like I meant to do any of those things, they're just the inconsistancies when you play Fox at a pretty technical level.

Man, that Kermit always gets to me.

I generally dislike watching videos and the only times I would watch is for myself, my friends, or watching the elites (mango m2k armada pp etc...)
That said, I stumbled upon redd vs ss and eh I admit I just watched the beginning and quickly dismissed it, imo wasn't impressed or anything and I didn't feel like it would have improved my game.

You're missing out on a world of things. In the 7 years I've ****ed with melee I've probably watched 50k+ videos along with tons of footage of random players. You never know what tricks you can pick up.

 

[Apathy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fQ_bPYNbR8

dont think dante's in a position to talk

dang dante got 7th at a 12-person local and redd got 13th at a national. hmmmm

 

[DanteFox]

Yeah redd I understand I play fox as well and make way more mistakes than you. The things I picked up on are minor little mistakes that are only meant to be a case against SilentSwag, not against you. Your combos were great.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fQ_bPYNbR8

dont think dante's in a position to talk

dang dante got 7th at a 12-person local and redd got 13th at a national. hmmmm

Sounds like an ad hominem and an appeal to authority to me. I expect better from you, P.

edit: not to mention the fallacy of equating placement with skill level. You're the one that I learned this principle from in the first place!

 

[unknownPresence]

you guys forget that this is santa barbara

 

[Apathy]

me and dante $50 mm

 

[DanteFox]

****

____________

 

[Apathy]

someone quote his post for me LOL

i dunno if i could take him now w/o practicing but a month of practice and id def take him

3/5, no bans, DSR, neutrals (ys, dl, battlefield, final) only

unknown: the cool kids are terrible. the only thing they've ever done that's good is the feature that was on rusko's album

 

[DanteFox]

deal.

_____

 

[Oracle]

**** just got real

 

[CableCho57]

loooool what the heck is going on in this thread

 

[SUNG475]

Holy fudge side bets?

 

[Apathy]

what's he saying?

 

[Sparky]

lol..... somebody record their matches!

 

[∫unk]

Somehow Dante's opinion on QuietEgo turned into a $50 mm with Ironic

 

[DanteFox]

^^^ lol

10char

 

[unknownPresence]

apathy yea they are bad but i thought the term was appropriate XD

n joey who are u bettin on and when is this happenin?

 

[Apathy]

i dun wanna get your panties in a bunch but there's no chance i mm dante for $50 anytime soon. i guess i riled him up but i'm a totally honest guy. i said i'd troll negative entities if i was bored or in a foul mood. i'm not in a foul mood but i have been trolling him

 

[DanteFox]

not surprised. Esp. after you pulled the same gag on Scar lol. Nice one tho. I got excited lol.

 

[CableCho57]

R.I.P apathy

 

[stopNstart]

even though P kinda chokes, i wouldve put money on P if this happened, i beat dantefox and im a random so =)

 

[silentSWAG]

holy ****. you guys are legit. thanks for all the stuff said about me, good or bad im getting recognized!. i didn't get a chance to read all the stuff word by word but i don't expect a crowd of people liking me and my sheik. the fact of the matter is that i played as gay as possible at rom (or at least as gay as i can play) and thats what i got to do to win.

EDIT: my bracket went

otg = 2-0 win
vudujin = 2-0 win
azen = 1-2 lose
spawn = 2-1 win
redd = 2-1 win
tec-0 = 0-2 lose

 

[stopNstart]

just wondering, what characters did azen use on you?

 

[silentSWAG]

fox and falco

 

[joejoe22802]

and you beat his fox?

 

[silentSWAG]

i think i beat him game 1 then he beat me game 2 with falco, then went fox and beat me last game. i dont remember that much of it because i was wasted at the end of the tournament. im pretty sure that he had a comeback on me last game and won. super super close set and i hope its up on youtube

 

[CableCho57]

anyone want to play tonight??? i get off work at around 9

and joey or dante, can i borrow your triwing screw driver?