Sandbagging and Honorable/dishonorable playing

[_kSo_]

Bladezero read my post. you said almost the exact same thing as I did. I guess great minds do think alike...

 

[bjdavis420]

epidion- I was only saying that those tactics get annoying, and no, they may take a few stocks off, but I usually dont lose to those type players.

Bladezero- I dont think that anyone is whining (with the exception of yoshi_fan) about the "cheap" or "dishonorable" or "efficient" or whatever the fu** you want to call them moves.

Personally, I dont care what moves scrubs use. Hey great, they realized that ness has a ******** throw, great dair, and a dsmash that will reach far out over edge. Let them use that all freakin day, but as long as they only try to use those tactics, they are only going to reach a certain skill level, and then not improve any farther. I agree with what has been said, that if someone is using one annoying method of play, then just find a way around it, and you will be able to beat them. This is getting slightly repetitive...Someone come in and post something ridiculous and get everyone all riled up again.

This thread started out as an argument about scrubs/scroobs/noobs/nubs and if honorable play was scrub mentality, now look what you have done kso

 

[_kSo_]

haha, we're still talking about scrubs technically, just annoying stuff that they do and not what defines one. I beleive that as long as you're not some nerdy kid who looks like you do nothing but play video games all day, a scrub won't mind losing to you as much as if you were. Get my point? I have friends who are mad ******** about stuff like that, like when I 5-starred jordan in guitar hero 2, he was like "dude how do you have time for that man wtf" and before that he was like "nah man your never gonna 5-star jordan" oh well. i guess thats why they call it "The call of the scrub"

typical scrub lines. (also referred to as "johns")

"Yea, I lost kuz I don't play as much as you"
"I lost kuz you did all those combos"
"I lost kuz you hit me while i was off the edge"
"stop using that move, it's mad cheap"
"you grab too much"
"wow, you must have no life"

haha, false.

 

[bjdavis420]

Haha, i love a good excuse, especially the "I lost kuz you hit me while i was off the edge" one. On a seperate note, im unbelievably BAD at guitar hero. I mean its sickening...I can not get my pinky finger to do ANYTHING right. I blame this all on ssb and ssbm because these 2 games have made my thumb, pointer, and middle finger far superior to ring and pinky.

 

[_kSo_]

Haha, i love a good excuse, especially the "I lost kuz you hit me while i was off the edge" one. On a seperate note, im unbelievably BAD at guitar hero. I mean its sickening...I can not get my pinky finger to do ANYTHING right. I blame this all on ssb and ssbm because these 2 games have made my thumb, pointer, and middle finger far superior to ring and pinky.

I play guitar, piano, starcraft AND smash. Woo my fingers are on fire 24/7

anywayz for realz backz on topicz (sounded like tigerbombz for a minute there )

I would like to say that I am known to complain once in a while. Like one day I was playing this guy (pika player) and i was massively hungover and normally i dont try against this guy anyway kuz he sucks. Well he managed to beat me kuz i was like half dead lol. He paraded his victory around the dorm and shlt. It was quite stupid. I felt bad for silencing him the next day by 5 stocking him in 64 and 3 stocking him in melee (apparently 64 isnt his game, melee is. boy, that was a total false).

But yea scrubs who do that piss me off

 

[Cactuar]

*saw sandbagging in the title*

Thumbs up!

 

[_kSo_]

*saw sandbagging in the title*

Thumbs up!

LOL cactuar whats up dude

 

[epidiOn]

kso you play StarCraft? Are you a member on GG.net/TL? Where do you play?

 

[_kSo_]

No, i wasn't. wat is that? i would have joined VGT but I had college to worry about but i still play on bnet sometimes: look for me

Kso4351]FK[ @ USA West

annnnd was cactuar going to post something useful or what....lol

 

[CunningKitsune]

No, i wasn't. wat is that? i would have joined VGT but I had college to worry about

johns

But yeah, first post ever in the SSB section.

*pound* @ Allan.

As for the topic, I guess I have a rather complex stance on these issues, mostly centering on the differences between friendly and tournament play (and just how "friendly" you want the friendly to be). Personally, I really don't care all that much for playing all-out in friendlies; by "all out," I mean taking such measures as camping by the ledge for every stock, stalling out matches, etc. In a nutshell, I dislike seeing such "extreme" measures taken outside of tournament play unless they are completely and totally warranted (for example, perhaps the match being played is a money match). To me, friendlies are where one can put aside the stress and pressures of tournament-level play and simply, well... Play the game. Have fun with it. Don't worry about messing up that edge-guard or missing that Z-cancel. Go for that completely random and far too risky off-stage Falcon Punch.

This leads me to the issue at hand of "honorable and dishonorable play." As one could infer from my previous thoughts, I see very, very little as "dishonorable" in tournament play. You have paid good money to enter the competition, and you are competing just as everyone else is; it is in your best interests to get the most out of your own money and perhaps to make some of your own. Tournament play is where you bring your best, all the "cheapness" and "annoying" tactics, the low-percent off-stage cheap-outs, etc. If you feel the need to take such extreme measures as cited above (i.e., excessive camping and stalling, and others) in friendly play, however, it is then that I really begin to see the player in question as somewhat desperate for a win. Really, friendlies are for casual play; lighten up and have some unbridled fun with the game a few times. As well, friendlies are, in my opinion, one of the best ways to study oneself, to learn and to change. Without having to focus constantly on getting the set win, the players are free to experiment, to watch themselves and their opponents without tournament stress on their minds. If one falls into the habit of always playing full-bore (one might say "dishonorably," depending on the tactics used), he or she misses the opportunity to change and to grow as a player. Then again, a player and his or her opponent may agree to "approve" of such tactics in friendly play simply to provide an out-of-tournament opportunity to learn from and to counter these strategies; this way, they are both prepared for when said tactics surface in tournament play.

So I guess that I have a rather multi-faceted view on "dishonorable" and "honorable" play. To me, at least, it all depends on the circumstances (tournament or friendly) as well as the views of the participating players (this, of course, is far less of a factor in tournament play).

Sandbagging, though... I really don't know yet. I haven't put too much thought into that one. Perhaps I'll come back to this thread when I've collected my thoughts on that topic.

 

[Nephiros]

^ There y'go. I don't mind EITHER if it's a tournament or whatever, but always playing like it's a tournament (or almost) in friendlies? C'mon now.

 

[_kSo_]

Anthony you are my hero. And thank you for finally posting in the ssb thread. Tis time for you to learn the wayz of smash64 and begin to appreciate it as much as you appreciate melee.

I loved your whole spiel. it was perfectly worded and wonderfully interesting. Simply delightful.

AND BEING IN COLLEGE IS NOT A JOHN. ITS TOTALLY LEGIT

 

[Fireblaster]

^ There y'go. I don't mind EITHER if it's a tournament or whatever, but always playing like it's a tournament (or almost) in friendlies? C'mon now.

Sometimes it may be that you're not desperate for a win, but just **** lazy. If I can just throw my opponent off and edgeguard him at 30%, I'll do it since it's the fastest and laziest way for me to win. I don't want to bother actually doing combos and such unless my opponent is actually good and doing massive damage to him is the best way to kill him.

 

[cmasterchoe]

There is also a depth of loserness that is beyond the comprehension of this thread (its up there with quantum mechanics and black holes). Anybody resetting the game in progress, or worse yet, pulls the plug on ur controller, or "lagging themselves out" of a game, etc. etc.... just blows my mind.

 

[epidiOn]

@Kitsune: Why not play like every match matters? Only by practicing what you would do in the toughest situation will you get better at it. If I practice combos, I'll get better at combos. If I practice edgeguarding at low percentages, I'll get better at it. And frankly, I'm only going to practice what is going to be the most annoying, efficient, easiest, "cheapest" strategies because they will work. Do what works and be good at it.

 

[cmasterchoe]

@Kitsune: Why not play like every match matters? Only by practicing what you would do in the toughest situation will you get better at it.

look, thats true and all but...

um, sometimes we actually play games to *wait for it* ... have FUN *GASPS*

 

[M3tr01D]

I have fun when I win.

 

[epidiOn]

Yep, I agree that nobody is making a living off of Smash Bros, so it makes more sense to play it for fun than to play it so seriously. But there's no reason to call people who do take it seriously "dishonorable" or "bad mannered".

 

[tigerbombz]

**** kso..u liek starting threads huh?

 

[Umbrasquall]

I have fun when I win.

I'm with Metroid.

 

[yoshi_fan]

The ones who do dishonorable plays are the ones who have fun winning, not playing the game instead.

I played dishonorable in a match vs a someone in reps, who come to be a good player (great combos, mindgames and all this), and i camp all the match, i won the match but it last for about 20 minutes, and was REALLY boring... (and the other start to complain)

I prefer someone who do combos to someone who waits in the edge.

Like kitsune says, i complain about cheap matches in friendly play, where i dont pick the best of my character in each match (and if i pick him,,, there are time where they beat me *sigh*) but in tournament play, all strategies are OK, and i dont complain there (mario strikers charged football league: a lot of people uses the "supershots" or the "white shots" tactics, who are really boring (do the same again and again), but efective... and i don't complain about them, i can't :/)

 

[Thino]

yesterday someone told me I "was desperate for a win" cuz I edghogged him, its just my way to play ,friendlies or tournaments.the tournament pressure and stress is just a state of mind IMO it shouldnt affect your gameplay to the point you say "in friendlies I dont edgehog , I dont camp". friendlies are matches where I take more risks and try new things

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

I saw starcraft somewhere in this thread, I play in USWest =P

oh ya I sandbag sometimes or kick the person from my game if I think they're noob

 

[_kSo_]

@Kitsune: Why not play like every match matters? Only by practicing what you would do in the toughest situation will you get better at it. If I practice combos, I'll get better at combos. If I practice edgeguarding at low percentages, I'll get better at it. And frankly, I'm only going to practice what is going to be the most annoying, efficient, easiest, "cheapest" strategies because they will work. Do what works and be good at it.

because not only that but he also meantioned that playing casually will allow your mind to free up and think better because there is no pressure of winning money or anything. he also said that it provides a chance for you to try new things and risky moves that typically in tourney play won't work, but who knows if you try enough new things, maybe you can put together a move that will work on tourney

and tigerbombz i do like starting threads. what's it to you?

 

[bjdavis420]

Yeah, i agree with Kitsune, kso, cmaster. Yes its true, there are very cheap tactics that you can use, and yeah you are right, they are the most efficient, easy, lazy etc. and if you get good at them, they work. But come on, who wants to use the same annoying tactic over and over again? I would much rather have fun with the game, rather than just find one particular move/combo set that i am good at, and stick with that. Dishonorable, i think not, but boring, yeah i think so. Once again people, where is the flare in your game? Go for the shine on your opponents last life when you are 3 stocking them, use that falcon punch over the edge, mario use your down b to spike them. To me, these kills are what make it a fun game, and they are very satisfying. A win is satisfying, but a win with flare is even more IMO. But either way, its what you prefer, and i dont think u can call any of it dishonorable.

 

[tigerbombz]

superboom i challenge u to starcraft? u down..i play us west to i think! lets do this!

sc name: tigerbombz

 

[whaahppnd]

I'm with Metroid.

I'm with Umbra.

 

[Fireblaster]

I'm with Umbra.

I'm with whaahppnd

 

[_kSo_]

I'm with whaahppnd

I'm with Fireblaster

 

[epidiOn]

Kso, Boomfan and tigerbombz - do you play money maps or pro maps on west?

 

[_kSo_]

lt, pa, rov, and luna are my favs.

anyway this isn't relevant to the topic. So yea theres no reason to call someone dishonorable for edge guarding, even in a friendly match (@thino). It's perfectly normal to edge guard. When i used to suck (haha like 2 years ago) me and my brother would play no edge guarding. it was mad dumb lol

 

[omfgomfg]

give credit and

clickk thiss

 

[7ak]

I pretty much agree with CunningKit, people who can't have fun playing SSB or SSBM are really sad. I only get annoyed in SSB64 if the other person is a grab-*****, 10 minute camper, fireball spammer, trashtalker, or if they get lucky and win.

Alot of the people who play online aren't the best sports........they trashtalk me if I beat them badly or quickly counterpick and start the game when I said last game.

As for the cheapness of the game itself, I think thats where Melee is a superior game. In SSB64 the weakness of the DI allows for inescapable combos and grab combos that work everytime. Melee has been out for so long that it also has many effective combos but most can be broken with good DI.

When I play SSB online, I try to KO the other person as quickly as possible but I usually play pretty casually unless the other person is decent/good or is a trashtalker. To me, SSB is much simpler than Melee, it's much easier to techchase and grab and combo so it takes a lot less effort. I think the most fun chars. are Pika, Fox, and Link because their combos aren't quite as gay as Falcon, Kirby, or Jiggly.

The most satisfying thing is to beat some trashtalking loser who thinks they're amazing b/c they can z-cancel decently.......funny how most of them go Falcon or Kirby............. I played a guy who complained about my Pika and said he would "crush" me with Falcon if I picked another character (after I beat his Mario, DK, Falcon with 3 diff. characters).........so I went Fox, played half-***** and 3-stocked him......he also called me cheap when I edgeguarded his Falcon to death with 0% on the first stock......hahaha soooo much fun.

 

[yoshi_fan]

I'm with Fireblaster

Finally i shoud say, i'm with KSO D:

Played a team-match: they start saying we were doing cheap things, and they picked kirbyes (when they was doing yoshis down b and smashes with TA off...), and we just have to do our cheapest tactics (with mindgames for make predictible the grabs -> combo -> edgeguard) ... they exploded and left.

So i reach a conclusion (also with the blog), play for win: if someone call you cheap, they can also do it D:

News: I passed the mental wall who kept me in scrub level, so now i use cheap tactics if i have to win... and finally i beat THE CHEAP PLAYER WHO HAS WON EVERY MY MATCHS!!! YEAHHHH!!!! and 4 stocked him!!!! I'm soooo happy

That blog entry was very right. Thanks for open my eyes :DDDD

 

[tigerbombz]

Kso, Boomfan and tigerbombz - do you play money maps or pro maps on west?

bgh is my best game...lt n fasest is all rite to me.

 

[greenblob]

To people who said that you should not do "cheap" things so you can practice new things: it's all in the mindset. Trying out new things =/= going easy on someone.

 

[omfgomfg]

nowadays i like using kirby and spamming f-smashes and then maybe d-air and u-tilt to n-air or b-air

its actually very fun but people might find this cheap

 

[yoshi_fan]

nowadays i like using kirby and spamming f-smashes and then maybe d-air and u-tilt to n-air or b-air

its actually very fun but people might find this cheap

Yeah it is, but whatever, is SOOO predictable that it gets funny to pwnn.

A thing: Cheap things = predictable things: why? they are easy to connect to kill ... but they will became very used for a lot of people so it's become predictable. A random attack isnt predictable. A cheap attack is.

What doy ou think?

 

[JaimeHR]

I think you guys should learn how to fight back against those "cheap" moves and strategies... If they are so predictable, then why you argue about them? Just because you can't avoid them?!

You may know about Dedrick, who's a Kirby user, I have played him and lost against his Kirby (which you would say that is very cheap) but did i argue about that? nope, i just keept playing him trying to find out his strategy, soon i started to guess better his moves and finally i was able to win more often against his kirby.

Cheap things = predictable things? again, if they're predictable why you guys aren't able to fight back against them? Also i think you're just too lazy to learn by the hard way (practice).

 

[bjdavis420]

To people who said that you should not do "cheap" things so you can practice new things: it's all in the mindset. Trying out new things =/= going easy on someone.

I dont understand what you are saying here. Yes, I suppose that if you are trying out new tactics, then you might be going easy on them at first, but you are trying to improve your style of play. You can only reach a certain level when you use such tactics as camping, spam throwing etc. Im not saying there is anything wrong with this.

What I am saying, is that by only sticking to these tactics, you will never stand a chance against truly leet players. Now Im not saying that I stand a chance against them either, but personally, I try and use better combos and try to incorporate new combos when I can, because you dont see any leet players just camping near edge or spam grabbing. Man, its 445, im ****ed up. I think this is a pretty good ****-faced post though.