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samus vs. sheik
- Thread starter rayecho
- Start date
mach5
Smash Journeyman
crouch cancel if they're at a short distance, they're most likeley to do a dash attack. when they move in to close don't cc though.
spot dodges are only good when folllowed by a jab then dtilt or down smash. never spot dodge into downsmash because a good shiek can out speed that with a simple jab due to its less laggy aeriels.
don't dash attack into a shieks shield. you're asking to get dthrow --> ftilt ---> fair which is not nice. keep your distance
edge guarding: try waiting at the edge with a utilt at best, but if they get too tricky on you, just wave dash off and hog the edge causing them to land on the platform. as soon as they land edge hop charge shot or waveland on and downsmash them. they have bad recovery and there lag on the landing fails.
spot dodges are only good when folllowed by a jab then dtilt or down smash. never spot dodge into downsmash because a good shiek can out speed that with a simple jab due to its less laggy aeriels.
don't dash attack into a shieks shield. you're asking to get dthrow --> ftilt ---> fair which is not nice. keep your distance
edge guarding: try waiting at the edge with a utilt at best, but if they get too tricky on you, just wave dash off and hog the edge causing them to land on the platform. as soon as they land edge hop charge shot or waveland on and downsmash them. they have bad recovery and there lag on the landing fails.
Shiek shiek shiek... hate him; yes, him. That thing is not a woman.
Anyway, CC is always good with them. Just be careful of what attack though. You can't CC the Fair, Usmash, or needles. Try sticking to the ground here. If you go in the air (especially if you come from above) you will be out matched. You ftilts should be a primary attack in this fight. Make sure to get the spacing right though, otherwise you might get punished.
It CAN be easy to edgegaurd them, but the best plan is to see what they are doing. If they have a nametag, this can be especially easy (because you can see where they are going).
Anyway, CC is always good with them. Just be careful of what attack though. You can't CC the Fair, Usmash, or needles. Try sticking to the ground here. If you go in the air (especially if you come from above) you will be out matched. You ftilts should be a primary attack in this fight. Make sure to get the spacing right though, otherwise you might get punished.
It CAN be easy to edgegaurd them, but the best plan is to see what they are doing. If they have a nametag, this can be especially easy (because you can see where they are going).
lonewolfe
Smash Journeyman
Thank you for creating this topic, Sheik is quite the pain in the ***.
I find that edge hogging and forcing them onto the stage works when they try and recover, or if you're on the stage and they just miss the edge, firing a fully charged shot at them is hilarious.
I find that edge hogging and forcing them onto the stage works when they try and recover, or if you're on the stage and they just miss the edge, firing a fully charged shot at them is hilarious.
Hostility
Smash Ace
Crouch cancel is really central to beating sheiks. I also find that you can combo well with your grabs, so I tend to use grabbing a lot against sheiks. Lots of edgeguarding as well. try and force them to get on the stage so you can keep hitting them off. if you find that they teleport to the edge when you are on it, just roll back onto the stage and let them die until they start going onto the stage so you can just stand up and attack them.
also, don't bomb jump when you are off the stage level to them or below them unless you are desperate, because needles will kill you. I tend to bomb jump as much as I can when I'm above them off the edge and then just fall when I'm level to or below the sheik.
also, don't bomb jump when you are off the stage level to them or below them unless you are desperate, because needles will kill you. I tend to bomb jump as much as I can when I'm above them off the edge and then just fall when I'm level to or below the sheik.
VA
Smash Hero
It depends on the kind of Sheik player they are. I find certain styles of Sheik player (certainly this is more common) much easier to deal with.
The kind of Sheik that grabs a lot, needles a lot and doesn't leave room for your CC to be very effective is the one that I worry about most. It's key on platform stages to stay off them if you can as any time spent on them means the risk of a Fair. Well spaced smashes are effective against sheik and harassing her with missles can be quite good. I find that using Fair as soon as she jumps to be quite good at catching Sheiks offguard, but I don't know how good that is really *im a nub*. Like hostility said, don't bomb jump below the stage and try to avoid using your grapple recovery as most times you'll end up needled which can screw you up.
The EASIER kind of Sheik is one who uses tilts, doesn't stand away and needle or use needle cancelled grabs. This kind of Sheik is more likely to let your CC really come into effect. Anytime you CC you should follow on with a Dsmash, this IMO is the best move against Shiek. If they mess up DI or are on a small amount of percentage then they can end up off the edge, which is good. Sheik can be edgeguarded by simply by edgehogging, pressing left and then using dmash, of course this only works if they are aiming to land on the stage, but generally this is very effective against sheik. Using a super missle followed by a homing is quite good in this match up aswell, sometimes allows you to approach her a bit better and she jumps/ducks/blocks the first and the queer trajectory of the homing can mess them up.
The kind of Sheik that grabs a lot, needles a lot and doesn't leave room for your CC to be very effective is the one that I worry about most. It's key on platform stages to stay off them if you can as any time spent on them means the risk of a Fair. Well spaced smashes are effective against sheik and harassing her with missles can be quite good. I find that using Fair as soon as she jumps to be quite good at catching Sheiks offguard, but I don't know how good that is really *im a nub*. Like hostility said, don't bomb jump below the stage and try to avoid using your grapple recovery as most times you'll end up needled which can screw you up.
The EASIER kind of Sheik is one who uses tilts, doesn't stand away and needle or use needle cancelled grabs. This kind of Sheik is more likely to let your CC really come into effect. Anytime you CC you should follow on with a Dsmash, this IMO is the best move against Shiek. If they mess up DI or are on a small amount of percentage then they can end up off the edge, which is good. Sheik can be edgeguarded by simply by edgehogging, pressing left and then using dmash, of course this only works if they are aiming to land on the stage, but generally this is very effective against sheik. Using a super missle followed by a homing is quite good in this match up aswell, sometimes allows you to approach her a bit better and she jumps/ducks/blocks the first and the queer trajectory of the homing can mess them up.
i was at a Nor Cal biweekly the other day playing against a sheik in the first round. i found out something that was useful(not sure if anyone knows about it yet)
when you shield and sheik runs at you and dsmash grab her and fsmash like crazy.
when you shield and sheik runs at you and dsmash grab her and fsmash like crazy.
Ken34
Smash Journeyman
hmm, vs shiek, CC works best, when they jump in at you, try to out space them, and ftilt or up-b out of shield. for edgeguarding, i find dropping a well timed bomb by thier sweetspot, into utilt works really well.
RaynEX
Colonel RTSD
I don't think so...
but can't she like cancel them with ftilts or something?
but can't she like cancel them with ftilts or something?
Mars-
Smash Champion
First of all, it's Sheiks, not Sheik's. Second of all, nobody can help you "Destroy Sheiks", cause sheik beats samus.
BigRick
Smash Master
Stop talking about CCing... good sheiks know that Samus can CC.
Therefore they will use non CCable moves.
EDIT: Just saw vanityangel's post. good job sir
Therefore they will use non CCable moves.
EDIT: Just saw vanityangel's post. good job sir
not sure if your talking to me, but if you are, are you talking about the missles?
sheik's needles are better than samus's missiles because there are more needles. the first few needles destroy the missile and the rest of the needles hit you. so there is no camping sheik. going into the air can be deadly because of sheik's aerials. the only thing i know that is effective against sheiks is the extended grapple beam. grab+dthrow+fsmash works really well.
your right. If ccing works, it will only be for a little while as your present starts to rack up from combos. not only that, but ccing will just get you garbed. thats when your in trouble.
just because a character has a disadvantages against a different character doesn't mean that is can't be destroyed. have you seen bum vs. isai, or hugs vs. dsf. Any match can be won, using any character. It just depends on the players and their knowledge about the game.
Mars-
Smash Champion
Well mister pro, if you know so much then why are you in here asking so many questions?
Dk beats fast fallers, so don't give me **** about bum vs isai
HugS is a lot better then dsf, which is why he is going to win.
max32090
Smash Ace
sheik wins. always.
i believe that i only asked one question. Dk does do extremely well against fast fallers, but captain falcon has a straight advantage over DK. Hugs has lost to DSF in tournament before. and im no pro, just a guy that asked a question.
max32090
Smash Ace
mars just got ***** politely
thebluedeath1000
Smash Champion
I disagreee max32090.
Firstoff. Don't throw in pro matches when you're at this level, because its not applicable to you. And dk does combo fast fallers quite well.
And once again, don't use pro's winnings and losing to back up your point, you know nothing of their level.
Firstoff. Don't throw in pro matches when you're at this level, because its not applicable to you. And dk does combo fast fallers quite well.
And once again, don't use pro's winnings and losing to back up your point, you know nothing of their level.
thebluedeath1000
Smash Champion
Thank you for listening.
I don't play samus nor do I play shiek, I've watched many matches of thiers though.
It whole heartedly depends on the shiek's ability to adapt. If she doesn't grab very much (theres something wrong with the shiek in the first place) then ccing would give the samus a good way of hurting her..but for the most part, unless the shiek is in the air, you do not want to cc unless you can QUICKLY change your di from down so you don't get combo-ed more than you need to be.
If shes in the air, she can't grab you, so cc-ing at lower damages is safe.
Missiles can overwhelm needles easily if you can missle cancel consistently with platforms.
Be EXTREMELY wary of the fact shiek's needles destroy your bomb jumping recovery.
I don't know what else to say besides the basics.
I don't play samus nor do I play shiek, I've watched many matches of thiers though.
It whole heartedly depends on the shiek's ability to adapt. If she doesn't grab very much (theres something wrong with the shiek in the first place) then ccing would give the samus a good way of hurting her..but for the most part, unless the shiek is in the air, you do not want to cc unless you can QUICKLY change your di from down so you don't get combo-ed more than you need to be.
If shes in the air, she can't grab you, so cc-ing at lower damages is safe.
Missiles can overwhelm needles easily if you can missle cancel consistently with platforms.
Be EXTREMELY wary of the fact shiek's needles destroy your bomb jumping recovery.
I don't know what else to say besides the basics.
Mars-
Smash Champion
And who are you?
thebluedeath1000
Smash Champion
Mars, don't start a flame war, I stated the points, whoever else posted non-sense can shut up since they don't have the knowledge to contribute.
this man has now taken control over the thread.
Drephen
Smash Master
guys dont even bother talking about strats against shiek cause im just gonna **** you all anyways =)
Crashmania
Smash Journeyman
first one to beat drephen gets a dollar!
edit:kicking him in the balls counts as beating him
edit:kicking him in the balls counts as beating him
Mars-
Smash Champion
What points? You said not to say that pros are good because they obviously aren't winning tournys like you are.
Now if you want good advise maybe you should turn to somebody like Watty, who plays one of, if not the best shiek in the U.S.?
Or you could PM HugS, who probably has plenty of experience against pro level shieks?
Even crashman could give you more help then anyone that posted in this thread.
thebluedeath1000
Smash Champion
Nevermind, I can see you're simply a prick that likes to start crap Mars.
Watty did indeed post, but I guess you weren't worthy enough for him to give any help.
At the beginning, I stated I play neither samus nor shiek and I was just trying to help since this thread wasn't getting very many good responses. Instead of being a jerk about it, you can contribute..you're basicly looking for a fight for some odd reason.
I do not want this thread to get locked, its a decent one, unlike most that are made so how about calming the **** down and being civil for a change.
Watty did indeed post, but I guess you weren't worthy enough for him to give any help.
At the beginning, I stated I play neither samus nor shiek and I was just trying to help since this thread wasn't getting very many good responses. Instead of being a jerk about it, you can contribute..you're basicly looking for a fight for some odd reason.
I do not want this thread to get locked, its a decent one, unlike most that are made so how about calming the **** down and being civil for a change.
Rohins
Smash Lord
I'm not very experienced in this matchup so I can only give general advice. First and foremost, if you want to get a lot better in any specific matchup you need to practice with someone who either mains it or at least plays it well. Dominating a noob sheik really won't teach you much save for the spacing of some of her moves, but they probably won't be utilized well anyways.
From personal experience I would say try your best to avoid being grabbed. Sheik does nasty stuff to Samus from a grab. If you do get grabbed know that you are definitely going to get hit out of down throw at most percents, not much to do about it but take it like a man and DI. People already talked about needles, you can see their posts. Also, might have been mentioned, when you recover don't bother with bomb jumping needles make it useless. Just bomb once to get you moving toward the stage, save your second jump so you have more options when you are close to the ledge.
From personal experience I would say try your best to avoid being grabbed. Sheik does nasty stuff to Samus from a grab. If you do get grabbed know that you are definitely going to get hit out of down throw at most percents, not much to do about it but take it like a man and DI. People already talked about needles, you can see their posts. Also, might have been mentioned, when you recover don't bother with bomb jumping needles make it useless. Just bomb once to get you moving toward the stage, save your second jump so you have more options when you are close to the ledge.
Mars-
Smash Champion
I just gave the best advise in this thread, and you tell me this? Lol, at prick part, GTFO kid.
Takumaru
Smash Lord
Is the defense of Mars, he knows what he's talking about he just can come off as a bit harsh IF you take it personal.
thebluedeath1000
Smash Champion
In the defense of mars, hes a prick, starting a flame war when someone just tried to help things move along after I ended his little agruement with someone else.
I really didn't see good advice, I seen you whine over someone agruing with you.
you're not worth the effort, good day.
I really didn't see good advice, I seen you whine over someone agruing with you.
you're not worth the effort, good day.
Mars-
Smash Champion
Ehh I'm done here.
BigRick
Smash Master
*looks at Watty's sig*
*looks at Drephen's sig*
Hmm...
Watty = no CoK?
*looks at Drephen's sig*
Hmm...
Watty = no CoK?
Drephen
Smash Master
yeah thats right
"good day" hhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaa
Watty
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2005
- Messages
- 1,638
ya i got booted for being a baller.
i shall give u input cause i do get the pleasure of playing the best sheik in the country also the gayest rofl who would of guessed those 2 things would go hand in hand
like its been said already the match up is extremely difficult u need to play defensive against sheiks being agro just doesn't work there faster than u and they have better moves in almost every category. DI grabs is very important u need to learn when to DI up and how long u should on lvls and u need to learn when to DI away.
use the forward tilt to create spacing and get some damage u wanna be as far away as u can make them come to u, up bing outta ur shield is very important because when they get close to u there gonna prolly grab u and u can up b and catch em with it. Dont try to come from above against sheik her moves are much better try and catch them in there jump timing is everything u can rack up alot of damage if u catch them at the right part by up airing into a forward air combo.
when u finally get a sheik off the edge, i usually try to face away from the ledge to ake the sheik think that im going to grab the ledge and depending on the angle they go to the stage at i either grabt he ledge or WD off the stage with a sex kick (its a hugs trick) juss make sure u hit lol cause if u dont oh buddy u gonna get hurt
im kinda rushing this soooo if u have any questions i could try to answer them
i shall give u input cause i do get the pleasure of playing the best sheik in the country also the gayest rofl who would of guessed those 2 things would go hand in hand
like its been said already the match up is extremely difficult u need to play defensive against sheiks being agro just doesn't work there faster than u and they have better moves in almost every category. DI grabs is very important u need to learn when to DI up and how long u should on lvls and u need to learn when to DI away.
use the forward tilt to create spacing and get some damage u wanna be as far away as u can make them come to u, up bing outta ur shield is very important because when they get close to u there gonna prolly grab u and u can up b and catch em with it. Dont try to come from above against sheik her moves are much better try and catch them in there jump timing is everything u can rack up alot of damage if u catch them at the right part by up airing into a forward air combo.
when u finally get a sheik off the edge, i usually try to face away from the ledge to ake the sheik think that im going to grab the ledge and depending on the angle they go to the stage at i either grabt he ledge or WD off the stage with a sex kick (its a hugs trick) juss make sure u hit lol cause if u dont oh buddy u gonna get hurt
im kinda rushing this soooo if u have any questions i could try to answer them