Samus MU Thread

[ph00tbag]

Yeah, Melee bombs were undeniably better. Two mechanics that I've seen don't work are the aforementioned lack of explosion on shield, and the inability to grapple cancel with bombs. The latter isn't as big a deal, since really only Mike Nasty employed it as more than a "gotcha" one-time trick, but it's still a nice gimmick to have in your pocket if someone's being cheeky with their spacing against bombs, even though grapple beam has less lag, now.

 

[JerkPhil]

Oh yeah, the bomb cancel isn't in PAL Melee either.
There's no explosion on target either, I think. I've tried to bomb -> Nair after I popped them up, but I missed every time. I never miss it in Melee.

 

[Kati]

yeah I can only land a dair immediately after bombing large characters or small characters if I bomb their feet while they are standing above on a platform. I never tried comboing with the bombs in melee though so I can't offer a comparison.

 

[MonkUnit]

Bombs definitely do explode on contact with a hurtbox, they just don't explode on shield in most circumstances.

 

[JerkPhil]

Either way it feels it has another knock back. I might be wrong though.

 

[Serris]

I'm pretty sure we're at a heavy disadvantage against Ness. A lot of Samus's moves just straight up lose to his priority, and he has fantastic air mobility, which makes it easy for him to juggle Samus and keep her in the air.

 

[WizKid911]

Sounds about right. I havent had a chance to fight ness yet as samus. I don't know how the MU would go. But I would almost always keep a charged shot, and fake out with missles and then shoot that bad boy right in their face. Laying bombs is good because most likely ness is gonna be in your grill so the hit from that might give you an opening. Now a question that I have.. would you prefer to use fire or ice against nessy poo? I still dont have a good read on the priority of ice beam yet so I am not sure. I know there is a lot of people that dont use the ice beam but I feel like if she has it then why not implement it into your gameplay.

 

[Serris]

Ice beam's priority seems to be identical to the power beam stance, for better or worse. I just stick to the power beam for better super missile KOs and more consistent follow-ups after d-throw.

EDIT: For those of you not in the habit of using the boost ball crawl attack, start incorporating it more. It lets Samus slip by Link's zoning easily, and has enough priority to clank with his tilts. It also has enough hit stun at higher percents to be a true set-up for smash attacks.

 

[DMG]

I use her Zair, in tandem with airdodging, to get through Link's stuff. It usually lets you get past boomerang and either hit him, or force him to dodge the Zair and stop the rest of his camping. If you're spaced and timed good enough, you can straight up go through his projectiles and have the Zair keep travelling

I've been trying to use Ice form more, but as I keep playing, it seems like only Ice Usmash is giving me a reason to be in the form. Ice Fair is a close second, but I find it competing with her Nair regardless.

 

[WizKid911]

Idk I love her ice fair but im not sure which hits harder. I want to say nair comes out faster but dthrow into ice fair is super sexy

 

[MonkUnit]

Nair is definitely faster than Ice F-Air or Ice U-Smash.

 

[DMG]

^^^

I only meant the comparison for Nair vs Ice Fair but yes it's faster than both. I just mean that overall for people that are located in the Fair arc, I tend to be able to hit them with Nair anyways. The arc going down doesn't feel significant enough, except when falling, to make it feel noteworthy over Nair.

 

[BLUX]

Im basing all of this from people i play at wavedash wednesdays
samus vs. wario 6-4
vs. mario 5-5
vs. luigi ?
vs. peach 6-4
vs. bowser 7-3 (can't deal with grabs zair and missiles)
vs. yoshi ?
vs. dk 5-5
vs. diddy 4-6
vs. falcon 4-6
vs. wolf 6-4
vs. fox 5-5
vs. falco 6-4 maybe 5-5
vs. icys ?
vs. zelda 7-3 (abuse zair and she can't set up anything)
vs. sheik 3-7 (your never safe anywhere)
vs. link 5-5
vs. Tlink ?
vs. ganon 6-4
vs. mewtwo 4-6
vs. lucario ?
vs. pikachu 5-5 maybe 4-6(quick attack cancel?)
vs. jigglypuff 8-2 (now this may seem weird but ice samus destroys puff, upsmash and fair all day)
vs. squirtle 4-6
vs. ivysaur ?
vs. charizard ? (pretty sure its in samus's favor though
vs. zss ?
vs. lucas 5-5 maybe 4-6
vs. ness ?
vs. pit ?
vs. kirby 5-5
vs. meta 5-5
vs. dedede 3-7 (if he grabs you your dead if not dead after a 0 to 100% combo)
vs. ike 5-5
vs. marth 4-6
vs. roy 6-4
vs. olimar ?
vs. ROB ? (pretty sure in ROBs favor)
vs. game and watch 4-6
vs. snake ?
vs. sonic ?

 

[JerkPhil]

My thoughts and opinions from the match ups I've played if anyone cares:

Samus vs
Mario 5-5
Luigi 5.5-4.5
Peach 4-6
Bowser ?
Yoshi ?
DK 6.5-3.5
Diddy ?
Falcon 4-6
Wolf 5.5-4.5
Fox 4.5-5.5
Falco 5.5-4.5
IC 6.5-3.5
Zelda ?
Sheik 3-7
Link 4.5-5.5
TL ?
Ganon 5.5-4.5
Mewtwo 4.5-5.5
Lucario 5-5
Pikachu ?
Puff 6-4
Squirtle ?
Ivysaur 4.5-5.5
Charizard ?
ZSS 5.5-4.5
Lucas 4-6
Ness ?
Pit ?
Kirby ?
MK ?
DDD ?
Ike ?
Marth 4-6
Roy ?
Olimar ?
ROB ?
G&W 5-5
Snake 6-4
Sonic ?

 

[Litt]

Honestly, list like that are a WASTE of time Jerk. Of course you are going to be biased as a samus main and put most MUs as in favor of samus or tied, and the MUs you have not figured out yet and John about are going to be in favor of the other character. The MU lists are made after a number of players all play against each other, and seeing as how incomplete your list is, you really dont have that much experience against a vast majority of characters of players

 

[JerkPhil]

I know it's a waste of time. I just wanted to share my opinions. You don't need to read them if you don't wish to.

 

[Serris]

Honestly, list like that are a WASTE of time Jerk.

Match-up threads are all about impressions and debating said impressions among people with similar experiences. There is absolutely no need to call someone a "jerk" over it.

 

[Litt]

something more helpful would be a description as to why you think that of each match up so other people can comment, just listing numbers helps no one

 

[Litt]

Match-up threads are all about impressions and debating said impressions among people with similar experiences. There is absolutely no need to call someone a "jerk" over it.

HIS NAME IS JERKPHIL..... YOU IDIOT

 

[Serris]

HIS NAME IS JERKPHIL..... YOU IDIOT

I need to stop posting when I'm tired and not reading things carefully, point taken. That said, name-calling es no bueno.

I'll get the thread back on track by saying that I seriously disagree with anyone who claims that Samus's match-up with Lucas is even. He can juggle her for days.

 

[DMG]

My name is Lamar The Olimar, plz don't call me anything else

 

[Kati]

Klit, wow.

I for one do appreciate someone posting numbers and nothing else. I would appreciate it more if written opinions accompanied the numbers, but I still respect them going out of their way to type out a large list and share it with us.

 

[DMG]

Opinion:

CC EVERYTHING AND C-STICK DOWN

 

[Serris]

Opinion:

CC EVERYTHING AND C-STICK DOWN

This just in: Samus loses match-up against Peach 1-9.

 

[Litt]

This just in... learn the match up instead of giving up with numbers like 1-9

 

[WizKid911]

I would say that peach does have an advantage due to her air mobility. Whose nair is quicker? But samus capable keeping peach at a distance as well. Both have an extremely good recovory. I have to agree with klit though. Explain why those matches were numbered the way they were. Some had brief advantage and disadvantage notes but just postinga list like that doesnt help anybody looking for pros and cons of a MU

 

[Serris]

I'd peg Peach at 55-45, personally. Like you said, she has great air mobility, but abusing z-air to cut through her turnips and well-spaced f-tilts at neutral do a good job of limiting her approach options.

 

[JerkPhil]

I'll complete my list and add comments when I feel for it. I'm inexperienced with the new match ups, so I'll complete them when I know them better. I don't think I'll play Samus in PM until next patch though. After this weekend's big tournament, I'm soo frustrated over some problems with PM, such as CC Dsmash not working for some reason, and Zair not grappling.

Peach is one of my personal worst match ups. I had to switch to Sheik against her this weekend.
Even though most of my match up knowledge with Peach comes from playing with Armada a lot, I can't see how the Zair makes the match up in Samus' favour.

 

[WizKid911]

Well one thing is that you can cancel her float and one other thing is that youcan cancel her turnips.. other than that keeping her at bay with homings sounds good

 

[JerkPhil]

So the Zair stops the turnips completely?
Has anyone implemented platform cancelled Zairs (PCZairs) in to their game yet? I imagine it would be great at smaller stages such as YS due to Zair's long range.

 

[DMG]

I don't try too hard with Zair. I usually toss it out vs other projectile users if I know the height they are throwing/shooting, this **** eats through 90% of things and keeps going it's great

 

[WizKid911]

Theres not many good samus videos out there for PM. So I havent seen evidence of it. Samus just has soooo much that she can utilize. She has to have the most techniques out of everybody. The day someone learns everything with her, she is gonna be scuurry

Edit: and im not sure if it stops turnips completely. I want to say yes though.

 

[JerkPhil]

In Melee, different turnips goes through our smash missiles, while others did not. Might be the same with Zair.

 

[bubbaking]

I like to use zair to cover my landings since it has no lag. I used to use missiles to do this in Melee, but those have a bit of start-up time and any hitbox ever can just go through them. Zair, however, out-prioritizes most attacks and comes out extremely quickly.

 

[MonkUnit]

Z-Air has no lag? It has 19 frames of landing lag. That's not really lagless.

 

[bubbaking]

Oh really? It seemed like it had a lot less lag than the Melee version. Then again, I guess I shouldn't have expected no lag or else people could literally spam zair like it is spammed in vBrawl. That's actually really nice to know. How much lag does Melee zair have?

 

[MonkUnit]

30 frames.

 

[DMG]

^^^

Zair definitely has landing lag, would be noticeable if it was only the same as a laser or missile. Takes awhile for you to shield or jab afterwards

If Zair had no lag, you'd make Samus incredibly toxic. (Let's secretly do it next patch :0)

 

[Kati]

But going back to using it over a missile, how many frames, if any, does a missile cancel have?

 

[Litt]

Missile canceling... im gonna venture a guess at no