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Samus is the strongest fighter in testing right now... rejoice?

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Anuran

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Sakuari says that samus is shaping up to be really good in this game in their balance testing. (not that it's that great, we all remember he who shall not be named) :metaknight:

so...

  • What does this mean for samus mains?
  • Would it have been better for her to be slightly under the radar?
  • Do you agree with this statement after having played her yesterday?
 
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Hong

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If that's the case, I hope that if testing truly proves she is superior (which I doubt), I rather have them improve characters that are far inferior than tone her down.
 
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Morbi

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I am not sure if that statement is accurate, first of all. I was expecting Hugs to choose her at the invitational, he is the preeminent Samus main after all. As he asserted, 15 other knowledgeable players decided to skip her for a reason. In the article posted today, Zero stated that one of the only characters that he did not want was Samus. I feel as though Sakurai is laboring under an erroneous delusion and that only means bad news for Samus. The Treehouse players seemed skeptical as well and they cited that it was perhaps her up-special having KO potential. However, we all know that there is no way that that is enough to make her viable. If he is aware of her being one of the top characters (which I do not believe to be the case), he is going to make a concerted effort to nerf her once more. I want to finally be able to actually use Samus in a game other than Melee, but I doubt it is going to happen.
 

Anuran

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I am not sure if that statement is accurate, first of all. I was expecting Hugs to choose her at the invitational, he is the preeminent Samus main after all. As he asserted, 15 other knowledgeable players decided to skip her for a reason. In the article posted today, Zero stated that one of the only characters that he did not want was Samus. I feel as though Sakurai is laboring under an erroneous delusion and that only means bad news for Samus. The Treehouse players seemed skeptical as well and they cited that it was perhaps her up-special having KO potential. However, we all know that there is no way that that is enough to make her viable. If he is aware of her being one of the top characters (which I do not believe to be the case), he is going to make a concerted effort to nerf her once more. I want to finally be able to actually use Samus in a game other than Melee, but I doubt it is going to happen.
Valuable insight, thank you. I hadn't thought about the fact hugs opted out. I figured he wanted to give megaman the spotlight I dunno. :/
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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For someone who claims to be the strongest fighter, Samus didn't always feel that way in the demo. I almost think that this input has been highly exaggerated at times.
 

SmashShadow

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-She has more mobility and ground speed.
-We already know that her charge shot was buffed.
-Her up smash is now a KO option and has a reliable hitbox for once.
-Her forward smash has more range and KO power
-Her roll is faster
-Up Special is a vertical kill

These all seem like pretty significant buffs to me.
 
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Hong

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Personally, even though the 16 players invited are some of if not the best and have trounced me several times, I am not too privy on their claims. In fact, a lot of the time, the game looked way better when played by the folks at Treehouse.

It is obvious Samus earns her meal almost entirely differently than she did in Melee. In Melee, if you got hit by a missile at mid to high percentages, you lost all stage control and if you got hit while recovering, you are DEAD. Good luck grabbing the ledge. Her crisp wavedash, missiles, and sex kick are all gone. Of her strengths, her weight, recovery and inability to suffer combos are all that remain.

That said, her ground game hasn't gotten any worse. OOS is worlds better now that both usmash and Screw Attack are worlds better. She can now consistently KO vertically... something that I would say I don't get often in Melee as someone who mains her.

Again, I would like to think that this is simply not the Samus that melee mains were looking for. They took a design direction that, while I don't agree with, is entirely valid.

Of course this is all speculation just like any other. Keep in mind that Samus could have received a lot of improvements internally in late April and during May, which may not have been illustrated on the demo or invitational build of the game. It is possible Sakurai merely didn't know the timeline in which improvements may have occurred. In game development, when you have hundreds of changes happening within the span of a month, it's hard to say when a change has happened without actively looking at documentation.
 

relaxedexcorcist

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The last Smash section of todays stream had Bill Trinen playing Samus (it's the first match) EDIT: my mistake, he was Rosalina. The treehouse players have described Bill's Samus as a dirty Samus in past streams, and they all keep vouching for her powerful character status, so maybe this is the powerful Samus they've seen seeing? I haven't watched the full fight yet, but it looks to me like whoevers playing Samus keeps trying to missile cancel even though we know you can't. Maybe it was in an earlier build?
 
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TheAccursedHunter01

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-She has more mobility and ground speed.
-We already know that her charge shot was buffed.
-Her up smash is now a KO option and has a reliable hitbox for once.
-Her forward smash has more range and KO power
-Her roll is faster
-Up Special is a vertical kill

These all seem like pretty significant buffs to me.
Going off of this video, Samus' D-Air looks like it needs more range, cause Samus was pretty close to Bowser at 1:00 and her D-Air missed even though it looked like it shouldn't have. It looked like Samus can't move her Final Smash anymore but the size of the laser is increased for what that's worth.

From what I've seen, I'm feeling positive about Samus once the game is complete. For example, Samus' grab is MUCH better, it's damn near instant if you're right in her face, like at 0:58 in the video. I got to try Samus Smash Run on the 3DS after the Wii U demo and her running grab has more lag than her regular grab, so keep that in mind.

Give her Supers more knockback, let Samus charge her beam in the air(the fact that every other character in the game that has a charge move can charge in midair but Samus can't is stupid since she can do it in the games), change her dodge roll to the sense move in order for it to be faster and harder to track/predict(although the roll is faster, but that could just be the game overall being faster), and allow Samus to crawl in Morph Ball and I'll be satisfied, unless there's something else others want to add/I forgot something.
 

Gazdakka Gizbang

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I felt the "most powerful testing was Samus" line was really more PR than fact. Samus is far and above my favourite character, but I've never expected them to design her as top tier, despite how much I'd like her to be.

She needs a little more of the utility she had in Melee, in my opinion. Super Missile, Charge Beam and Neutral Air knockbacks would certainly make her better.
 
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SmashShadow

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Going off of this video, Samus' D-Air looks like it needs more range, cause Samus was pretty close to Bowser at 1:00 and her D-Air missed even though it looked like it shouldn't have. It looked like Samus can't move her Final Smash anymore but the size of the laser is increased for what that's worth.
She can definitely still angle her final smash and down air hit Bowser but it seems the whole move is no longer a meteor but only certain parts are.
 

Gazdakka Gizbang

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Going off of this video, Samus' D-Air looks like it needs more range, cause Samus was pretty close to Bowser at 1:00 and her D-Air missed even though it looked like it shouldn't have. It looked like Samus can't move her Final Smash anymore but the size of the laser is increased for what that's worth.
I(EDIT) I watched it a few more times, and I think Bowser's legs were the only thing that Samus actually hit with her D-Air. Maybe since the rest of the body above her wasn't hit, it didn't count as a meteor?
 
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Gazdakka Gizbang

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More on Samus
At about 1:04, Samus does a proper meteor smash, with DK's body entirely underneath her.

So yeah, I'm pretty confident her D-Air relies on the bulk of the enemy's body and hitbox to be hit for it to be a meteor, and clipping body parts (at least ones that aren't in front of her swing arc) won't make it work.
 

Crystanium

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-She has more mobility and ground speed.
-We already know that her charge shot was buffed.
-Her up smash is now a KO option and has a reliable hitbox for once.
-Her forward smash has more range and KO power
-Her roll is faster
-Up Special is a vertical kill

These all seem like pretty significant buffs to me.
I'd avoid using Samus' rolling because you have to wait for those frames to finish. When this occurs, Samus is not free to attack at any time. Walking away or trotting in the opposite direction is a better method because you're able to shield, spot-dodge, or even attack.

I also personally don't care if HugS isn't using Samus, as if that's an indicator that she's bad. He was a notable Samus player during SSBM, but last I checked, he isn't the expert on all things Samus. Let's not place people on a pedestal.
 

MasterOfKnees

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I honestly think it's too early for us to be able to say whether that's true or not, since many people here have only had 2-4 minutes of gameplay. To really properly digest the gameplay of a new Smash and potential combos it takes hours upon hours, so if there's any really strong combos or anything they have probably not been found by us. She seems a lot stronger than her Brawl incarnation though, we'll have to see how she fares once we get a proper handle of the game.
 
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Anuran

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I honestly think it's too early for us to be able to say whether that's true or not, since many people here have only had 2-4 minutes of gameplay. To really properly digest the gameplay of a new Smash and potential combos it takes hours upon hours, so if there's any really strong combos or anything they have probably not been found by us. She seems a lot stronger than her Brawl incarnation though, we'll have to see how she fares once we get a proper handle of the game.
I agree, I was mostly asking about how people felt about Sakurai's assessment as we simply cannot have one as a community with the amount of play time we have gotten. Sorry If I was not clear in that. My personal opinion is that she will be a lot more melee based and less projectile based due to the absence of missile canceling. Her grab looks more viable and her ^b looks promising. I can't say how she will stack up against the cast of this game but I think power wise she will "likely" be better than her brawl incarnation and worse than her pm one. Either way she will play differently than any version of Samus we have gotten thus far. Thoughts?
 

Trigger123

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I can't tell are they making grunts after they get hit by a smash attack like in melee?
 

Hong

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Samus is certainly better than her Brawl appearance, I can tell you that already.

Can't say yet how she will fare compared to Melee before we have had time to play the final product, but she is certainly going to have different ideal match-ups now that she can kill vertically.
I can't tell are they making grunts after they get hit by a smash attack like in melee?
Characters now immediately respond with their cries of pain after being launched, and it's not delayed like Brawl.
 
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Oracle_Summon

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That is a big sigh of relief to the majority of Samus users.

Personally, I would like the majority of characters to be on an even level in terms of Tiers and balancing.
 

SmashWolf

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I'm worried if the testing team of Smash 4 really thinks Samus is the most powerfull character when she's clearly not. There's a big difference between casual players thinking a character's good and someone who actually knows how utilize their characters to their full potential.

On top of this, if she's considered "the most powerfull", it means they may nerf Samus as result when she doesn't need it at all. Let's just hope that our limited playtime means we've been missing something important.
 

SRUFUS3D

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-She has more mobility and ground speed.
-We already know that her charge shot was buffed.
-Her up smash is now a KO option and has a reliable hitbox for once.
-Her forward smash has more range and KO power
-Her roll is faster
-Up Special is a vertical kill

These all seem like pretty significant buffs to me.
You are right but I they nerfed her down aerial and I didn't see the super missiles do much knockback.
Sakuari says that samus is shaping up to be really good in this game in their balance testing. (not that it's that great, we all remember he who shall not be named) :metaknight:

so...

  • What does this mean for samus mains?
  • Would it have been better for her to be slightly under the radar?
  • Do you agree with this statement after having played her yesterday?
What is your opinion?
 
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Anuran

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You are right but I they nerfed her down aerial and I didn't see the super missiles do much knockback.


What is your opinion?
Its really hard to say, missile spam is nerfed out of existence so her neutral game is gone. She may be good but she wont fight like the "Samus" we know with missiles and grab follow ups. Likely more like link with projectiles approaches. Is that the answer you were looking for?
 
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SRUFUS3D

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I guess your right but maybe they want mainly megaman and the gunner mii to projectile characters.
Nether the less it is shame weakened her missile tactics.
 

Anuran

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I guess your right but maybe they want mainly megaman and the gunner mii to projectile characters.
Nether the less it is shame weakened her missile tactics.
I think its more like Nintendo doesnt like cancelable moves because... I dont know
 

SRUFUS3D

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I think its more like Nintendo doesnt like cancelable moves because... I dont know

Even if she cannot missile cancel anymore. Why are her missiles so weak like they were domination in melee and destroyed in her games, I wouldn't mind to much if the missiles did more damage or knockback.

I just hope they improve her dodge animation and morphball bombs.:ohwell:
 
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Hong

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The reason why i can't justify missiles being so weak is because they are still easy to deal with, even if you don't avoid them. The official blog even advocated the destruction of missiles, citing the new graphics they have added for it. Thus far, every newcomer except Pac-Man has been given tools to reflect, circumvent or neutralize projectiles.

At least Charge Shots you can't just cut down and be done with them. That is enough reason to justify still using the Charge Shot.
 
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Xyro77

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Sakuari says that samus is shaping up to be really good in this game in their balance testing. (not that it's that great, we all remember he who shall not be named) :metaknight:

so...

  • What does this mean for samus mains?
  • Would it have been better for her to be slightly under the radar?
  • Do you agree with this statement after having played her yesterday?
Having played Melee samus for 2 years, brawl samus for 6 years and PM/ssb64 samus whenever i actually get a chance to play......what sakurai says means NOTHING. Look at how brawl turned out.

We already know from all the smash games that the character with the most damage potential or knock back potential doesn't guarantee the character will be amazing. Its the options that her move-set creates that defines how good she is. Again, look at Brawl and Mk. His damage output and kockback potential are decently low yet he has an option for 99% of the situations he will be in, on or off stage. Be it abusing his gimping potential or abusing his ridiculous transcending priority, he is by far the best.

So back to Smash 4 Samus. Yes her ground game appears to be faster and produces more knockback (very very good buffs) but we need to see how it plays out in real combat vs the rest of the cast.
 

SundayBest

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At E3, Sakurai said that Samus was the strongest character played by game testers so far. So does that mean she has the most power out of the characters or just she is just the best. If anyone played as samus during E3 or the bestbuy demos, let me know what you think.
 

WritersBlah

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As far as the competitive community's concerned, the playtesters who gave this information are either using a way different measuring stick for character strength than we are, or they know something we don't. More than likely the former though; all the invitational players are renown (or at least well-respected) competitive Smash players who know the game better than nearly anybody else does, and they begged to disagree. They each got several hours before the event to play the game, it's implied everyone tried every character (not that far of a stretch to believe), and the fact that nobody chose Samus should be a red flag that perhaps the playtesters need to revise the way they evaluate their characters.
 

TeaTwoTime

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I've heard different opinions on this from people who had the opportunity to play Samus, so I'm not going to accept that the playtesters are entirely wrong - but it is indeed entirely possible that their assessment is not the one that competitive players would make, or made using a different method of evaluation. The only way we'll know is through firsthand experience once the final game is complete. :) In any case, they know Samus was weak in Brawl; expect a buffed Samus in one way or another.
 

HermitHelmet

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Well, look at the specifics. Her Screw Attack got buffed, as it's a kill move. In the Smash Bros Direct, Samus kills Fox with an Up-Smash (Instead of him falling out of the hitbox just like any other character would).

So she is much better, but you have to compare her against the other characters first.
 

Z1GMA

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Pretty sure they were judging her off of FFA and with items, where she shines with casual-friendly moves like the buffed Charge Shot, and her FS.

However, Samus doesn't look anywhere near bottom atm, which is a relief.
 

SmashWolf

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She's buffed from Brawl, to be sure, but the playtesters have no idea what they're talking about if they really think Samus is the best character. None of the competitors picked her for good reason, and you can tell why by just watching videos with Samus in it.

I just hope the playtesters come to their senses and don't downgrade her later because she's "too strong" when she's really not.
 

Hapajin

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I'm scared Sakurai thinks she's to powerful (for whatever reasons) and nerfs her in future game development, while I think she could still use some significant buffs.
 

Ryu Myuutsu

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As far as the competitive community's concerned, the playtesters who gave this information are either using a way different measuring stick for character strength than we are, or they know something we don't. More than likely the former though; all the invitational players are renown (or at least well-respected) competitive Smash players who know the game better than nearly anybody else does, and they begged to disagree. They each got several hours before the event to play the game, it's implied everyone tried every character (not that far of a stretch to believe), and the fact that nobody chose Samus should be a red flag that perhaps the playtesters need to revise the way they evaluate their characters.
That or the players just to decided to try out the characters of their preference and/or the newcomers. I think that saying because nobody chose her in one instance means that she may be bad is over-thinking it.
 

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That or the players just to decided to try out the characters of their preference and/or the newcomers. I think that saying because nobody chose her in one instance means that she may be bad is over-thinking it.
Mmm…you know, I'd be incline to go along with that theory, until you factor in HugS. If I recall correctly, he had posted on Twitter that he was pretty dead-set on using Samus at the tournament (as several other players had for their characters), but when it came down to it, he ended up choosing Mega Man instead. This honestly kinda worries me.
 
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