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Samus and the Meta

YoshiNaomi

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
Messages
30
Location
Chicago, IL
Hello all! In the wake of Apex 2014 and the Salty Suite, anyone interested in looking over the meta? How far did Samus reach at Apex? What match-ups are keeping us back? I'm new here but decently knowledgeable of tech, looking for some experience on this please. Thanks!
 

Serris

ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)
Joined
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Herple-Derples
3DS FC
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I only know of a handful of Samus mains that went to Apex, and no one made top 64. We're going to need a greater showing at more locals to really get a feel for it.
 

Litt

Samus
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
1,863
Location
CT
I got 97 :D and thats not even having any MU experience going into the tourney, If I actually had more people to play in PM, id be able to place top 64 at next Major tourney no problem
 

Thane of Blue Flames

Fire is catching.
Joined
Nov 23, 2013
Messages
3,135
Location
The other side of Sanity
I also feel like ESAM would have done better with Samus against Sethlon if he'd utilized either Up-B to get out of Dancing Blade, or rolled out. Twice he got slammed by the 4th hit on trying to grab and I believe he stayed in his shield once but got shield poked by it. It's hard to figure out new match-ups on the fly.

More importantly, though, a Samus made top 16 and I believe ESAM even beat Eli. I call that solid.
 
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YoshiNaomi

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
Messages
30
Location
Chicago, IL
^^^^^THIS.

A little side note, sorry I've been absent from the thread. I'm currently trying to compile an ultimate Project M Samus guide, complete with: frame data, hitboxes/hurtboxes/intangible, match-up advanced strat, advanced tech, damage/numbers for attacks/jump heights/etc, and overall Meta approach(playstyle along side mind games and options). I will also start posting Youtube videos for Samus and Project M in general, in about two months or so(gotta save for a capture card).
 

MonkUnit

Project M Back Roomer
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
6,075
Location
Eau Claire, Wisconsin
@ YoshiNaomi YoshiNaomi - I was intending on starting a Samus hitbox thread, but I have been too busy to do so. If you want, you could do all of her moves besides bomb, smash missile, homing missile, Z-Air, and her grabs. The bombs / missile hitboxes cannot be gotten through BrawlBox. Samus' grabs also have a Frame Speed Modifier, which makes BrawlBox incorrectly show her grab is compared to in-game. Z-Air also doesn't show hitboxes in BrawlBox. Samus also has other moves that have Frame Speed Modifiers which mean you will not be able to get accurate information through BrawlBox/PSA - you would need to use Frame Advance, which I can do. The landing lags of her aerials are also not properly shown in BrawlBox/PSA.
Here is a list of Samus' moves that have FSMs:
-Samus
D-Tilt Ice
F-Smash Ice Startup
F-Smash Ice
F-Smash Ice Hi
Fsmash Ice Low
D-Smash Startup

LA-Basic[99]==0 is Fire (normal) stance
Else: Ice stance



If you are going to do a hitbox thread for Samus, make sure you resize her TopN bone on Frame 1 of every animation you are getting hitbox images from 1, 1, 1 to 0.88, 0.88, 0.88. I will eventually make a guide on how to make a hitbox guide but I do not have the time to do so right now. If you are going to get Samus hitbox stuff and have any questions, feel free to contact me.
 

Litt

Samus
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
1,863
Location
CT
thing is ESAM didn't go just samus for most of the PM tourney, I believe he also went Pika, DK, and Charizard. But his samus is amazing and stings together combos like water
 

Litt

Samus
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
1,863
Location
CT
Thing is most samus players still play melee, the PM scene isnt big enough for them to switch yet, and a lot of them dont even want to play samus in PM because it screws with their melee samus.
 

Litt

Samus
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
1,863
Location
CT
Not to hate on hugs, but his melee samus isnt gonna transition overly smoothly, he lost to Plup because how much more technical plup was, and PM thrives on tech skill for samus instead of just patience and spacing, hell I could be wrong and hugs dominates PM, who knows for sure.
 

YoshiNaomi

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
Messages
30
Location
Chicago, IL
Not to hate on hugs, but his melee samus isnt gonna transition overly smoothly, he lost to Plup because how much more technical plup was, and PM thrives on tech skill for samus instead of just patience and spacing, hell I could be wrong and hugs dominates PM, who knows for sure.
As far as tournament skill, I'm no Mango. But (I hope you noticed by my mentioning of doing an in-depth Samus strat)I can promise I am seriously aiming to take first. Over M2k. Over Armada. Over everyone. I want Samus to be more than Falco ever was. She has been and always will be my Prime character.

Uhh..that aside, I want to obtain frame data for all of her moveset in PM exclusively; any pointer where to start? (I've been googling etc etc, trust me I'm not asking out of laziness, but rather seeking wisdom of players miles ahead of me)
 

YoshiNaomi

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
Messages
30
Location
Chicago, IL
Thank you so much! It is truly amazing how helpful all Sami are. <3 Anywho, here is a little quick sheet I'm working on so far. I live in Chicago and I'll start going to EXP Gaming's Wavedash Wednesdays for PM tourneys(in addition to others). My goal with this little sheet is to have a txt file on em at any time to look over data. Feel free to edit/clean/add/modify it to your heart's content.

p.s. I threw this together in about an hour of working on it while in the lab. I'm no M2K, but I want this to grow into pages and pages, heh.

p.p.s. Just to be clear, I want it stated that the quick sheet is -compiled- from various sources and organized into a convenient matter, with my own formatting. I've taken tips from other threads and such, so I didn't want someone to get cuaght off-guard if something they mentioned or typed before was here, haha.
 

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YoshiNaomi

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
Messages
30
Location
Chicago, IL
Also, anyone feel free to dump any Project M Samus data and at some point I'll compile it in the OP. For example, here is an example guide pic that shows the failbox for Samus' tether recover. ^.^
 

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HugS™

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
1,486
Location
DBR
Not to hate on hugs, but his melee samus isnt gonna transition overly smoothly, he lost to Plup because how much more technical plup was, and PM thrives on tech skill for samus instead of just patience and spacing, hell I could be wrong and hugs dominates PM, who knows for sure.
I didn't lose to plup because of how much more technical he was. It doesn't take better tech skill to land a charge shot, for example. He was better at the matchup than I was. If anything Spaceballs and Phanna were more technical than both of us combined, and that didn't decide the outcomes.

And yes, I name search sometimes :)
 

Litt

Samus
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Feb 2, 2013
Messages
1,863
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CT
Spaceballs was not that technical, he literally did nothing in the match besides throw out movement patters with a big move at the end prize, but whenever the opponent didn't follow him around the stage, he would get destroyed :( He played robotic, and your play style hugs completely countered it. But yes Phanna was super techincal and fun to watch :D. I mean what got the kills were the charge shots, but he needs to be able to move around you more, and keep you off stage enough to be able to charge them, and a lot of the methods he used to get you off stage weren't untechinical. And at least plup knows how to djmc :p
 

Litt

Samus
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Messages
1,863
Location
CT
But honestly the best way to edge guard against samus is to just get more missiles out there to hit her and the bombs, and a more technical samus would be able to get more out there and make the match up in his favor.
 

ph00tbag

C(ϾᶘϿ)Ͻ
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
7,245
Location
NC
I didn't lose to plup because of how much more technical he was. It doesn't take better tech skill to land a charge shot, for example. He was better at the matchup than I was. If anything Spaceballs and Phanna were more technical than both of us combined, and that didn't decide the outcomes.

And yes, I name search sometimes :)
It's because of posts like these that you are my favorite.
 

ELI-mination

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 14, 2006
Messages
2,161
Location
Queens, New York
I also feel like ESAM would have done better with Samus against Sethlon if he'd utilized either Up-B to get out of Dancing Blade, or rolled out. Twice he got slammed by the 4th hit on trying to grab and I believe he stayed in his shield once but got shield poked by it. It's hard to figure out new match-ups on the fly.

More importantly, though, a Samus made top 16 and I believe ESAM even beat Eli. I call that solid.
Yea man, props to ESAM. He's really talented and I didn't see it coming. Its scary the things I think he'd be able to do if I actually sat down with him and showed him a few things about the game.
 

Litt

Samus
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Yea man, props to ESAM. He's really talented and I didn't see it coming. Its scary the things I think he'd be able to do if I actually sat down with him and showed him a few things about the game.
Lol, ELI, i doubt there is anything you can show him that ESAM doesnt already know...
 

ELI-mination

Smash Champion
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Queens, New York
Lol, ELI, i doubt there is anything you can show him that ESAM doesnt already know...
Well, no, you're wrong. Afterwards I spoke to him at the hotel bar and he said he was really surprised to have even beaten me. I told him I underestimated him a lot. He's really friendly and competitive, I'm glad the community still has people like him. I'm pretty sure I watched him play Sethlon afterwards using DK, and I know lots of things with DK that ESAM definitely doesn't, and he'd benefit from utilizing. It's worth noting I played Sethlon in my room in lots of friendlies the night before too using DK against his Roy. Those were fun times. ;)

Get your nose out his ass, bro. And start recognizing that I'm gahlike.
 
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Litt

Samus
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
1,863
Location
CT
Well, no, you're wrong. Afterwards I spoke to him at the hotel bar and he said he was really surprised to have even beaten me. I told him I underestimated him a lot. He's really friendly and competitive, I'm glad the community still has people like him. I'm pretty sure I watched him play Sethlon afterwards using DK, and I know lots of things with DK that ESAM definitely doesn't, and he'd benefit from utilizing. It's worth noting I played Sethlon in my room in lots of friendlies the night before too using DK against his Roy. Those were fun times. ;)

Get your nose out his ***, bro. And start recognizing that I'm gahlike.
ELI I WAS TALKING ABOUT SAMUS YOU STUPID PIECE OF ****... learn to read, because this is a samus... NOT DK THREAD
 

Litt

Samus
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Messages
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CT
I'm not trash talking anyone!!!.... Eli thought that he had something he could teach ESAM about samus... went on this long rant about how he taught him something about Dk or something, and I was like.... dude, this is a samus board and I wasnt just talking about PM or non samus tech, so once again... BLUX learn to read just like most people on here. You legit joined this site less than 2 months ago, like I am sure you are a nice enough person in real life, but really you are just egging me on at this point by adding to this dead topic.
 

ManaX

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 10, 2010
Messages
100
Location
West MI
Eli thought that he had something he could teach ESAM about samus... went on this long rant about how he taught him something about Dk or something
You're not the brightest knife in the shed, even though you've got a razors edge of an attitude.
 

Litt

Samus
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
1,863
Location
CT
You're not the brightest knife in the shed, even though you've got a razors edge of an attitude.
Really... if you are going to insult someone's intelligence, at least don't screw up the saying you are trying to use properly... Its... Sharpest tool in the shed... Sharpest Knife in the Drawer... Or Brightest one in the bunch.... I'm sorry if I don't take your insult to heart about my own intelligence, but I recommend just not insulting other people.
 

Litt

Samus
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Messages
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KLit your last couple posts are entirely unnecessary. You could've just ignored his post instead of insulting him.
I completely agree, butttttt.... he took it upon himself to openly insult me, and if he is going to insult intelligence of someone in grad school with such a poorly created insult, I have to call him out on that
 

ManaX

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 10, 2010
Messages
100
Location
West MI
I completely agree, butttttt.... he took it upon himself to openly insult me, and if he is going to insult intelligence of someone in grad school with such a poorly created insult, I have to call him out on that
>grad school
Funny, your attitude and demeaning behavior seem more appropriate for a *grade schooler.
Watch your ****ing attitude.

Though I shouldn't expect any level of maturity from someone who calls themselves "c lit." Would sure explain your cuntyness.
 
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DMG

Smash Legend
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Feb 12, 2006
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Waco
Slippi.gg
DMG#931
Damn

Samus forums nominated for most pointless Drama?!?!?!?

Everybody sucks but Eli, get used to it
 

Litt

Samus
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
1,863
Location
CT
>grad school
Funny, your attitude and demeaning behavior seem more appropriate for a *grade schooler.
Watch your ****ing attitude.

Though I shouldn't expect any level of maturity from someone who calls themselves "c lit." Would sure explain your cuntyness.
Hmmm, you talk about demeaning behavior, yet you start off with a demeaning comment about school, then my tag (which is my name... Ken Litt, KLit), and then you swear twice... hmmm, for starters, learn to calm the hell down before talking to anyone, especailly if you do not personally know them, and second, when insulting someone about demeaning behavior, you are just being a hypocrite unless you do it in a polite and positive way... So please just back off and only post productive material
 
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