Sakurai knows what he is doing

[Chi's Finest]

We know the online thing is Nintendo's fault, not Brawl's. We've established that and people still come in here going nuts in defense.

So all the people that complain about Sakurai are saying he's not appealing to an elitist competitive crowd? You know others do play the game. The game because competitive either way. Melee was a regular game until we turned it competitive as it became.

No game is every gonna be perfectly balanced unless everyone has the exact same jum p height, floatiness, hitboxes, etc. Even if you made game that balanced out everyone's stats. Give it 6 months until people discovered ways to make certain characters better. That's why tiers kept changing in Melee. Games evolve even after the final product is put into our conoles. Gears of War was an average casual game, but people took it to the next level with wall bouncing and other tactics.

Just because he doesn't create 40 FD's, get rid of items for good, and maturbate to wavedashing, doesn't mean it can't be played by us.

What's wrong with items in 1P mode anyway? Dos it actually bother you?! What's wrong with items in general (I know I'll get flamed as a noob for that). Sure, I enevr play with them on, but the game is more suited to have them, and plus they made the matches more fun in the begining when playing with my friends. Pokeballs on high ftw.

How many people here that complain the game is too friendly for new smashers, are the same ones floodng the boards a year ago saying they won't even buy Brawl if WDing isn't in and how terrible Smash is without WDing?

 

[Collective of Bears]

Unlikely.

"items have been taken out of brawl! Oh, and for stages? There are only 2! battlefield and final destination!

Online play will be intense. You have a selection of 2 characters: Fox, and fox!"

Not the way I'd make it. Mine would take out Fox and Final Destination and make Mewtwo a Top-tier brawler. I'd have tons and tons of newcomers, declone the clones, and make a ton of extremely gimmicky items and stages. That is what competitive play is made of IMO. Mastering everything. Not playing Fox vs Fox on a completely flat and boring stage with no items.

 

[Blu-ninja]

^90% of "guy" peach players are gay. But Ridley is a good pick.

that was the most stereotypical thing ive ever heard.


i play peach.
peach is my favorite character in all of the mushroom kingdom...
in fact i enjoy beating super princess peach over and over again..

BUT I R STRGHT


On topic:

im glad smash is going to slower tone now.
slower than melle, faster then 64, thats the way to do it.

 

[PaperLink]

casual games become competitive. That's just how it is. The online thing does need work, but it isn't horribly borken. Ok, yeah, it does suck that if you find someone who's good and it was a close match you'll never see them again. But you're going to find someone else who's just as good if not better. With the amount of ppl playing brawl, it shouldn't be too hard to find someone who's good at it randomly.

 

[notftomearth7]

lol can I watch?

Sure, and while your at it keep your car running cause I could own him like that (snaps fingers)

 

[Xanderous]

No matter how much I say it, nobody will get it. Competitive games are for everyone, but casual games are for casuals only.

Why do I even try?

 

[Team Giza]

No matter how much I say it, nobody will get it. Competitive games are for everyone, but casual games are for casuals only.

Why do I even try?

VOLCANO KNEE!!!!

Virtua Fighter 5 is a good example of this. I have found tons of casual gamers having fun with this game at arcades and just playing the demo at game stores having tons of fun. They aren't competitive players but they still enjoy the game. Yet Virtua Fighter 5 itself is a very competitive game.

 

[RyNo 86]

I don't think any of you realize this game isn't going to be perfect. Melee wasn't perfect and God knows ssb 64 wasn't perfect, and brawls going to be the same way and so will the smash bros after that.

Your asking to much of Sakurai. I know sakurai wouldn't have taken out WDing unless it was the right thing to do for the game.

You need to understand that sakuri is still experimenting with his games. All these new ideas he's coming out with, he doesn't know their going to work. The way you make a sequal is you take the best qualities of the old game and a boat load of new ideas for the new game. Thats why melee was so successful and that's why brawls going to be that much better.

The best part is Sakurai is a smash player himself. Infact his entire staff play the game. They can tell if the game is better than it was before becuase their the ones playing it.

Everyone at E 4 All said the game was awsome. And I watched the videos and from what I saw it is awsome. So just calm down. Read the name of this thread, Sakurai knows what he's doing.

 

[Jimtopia]

I don't think any of you realize this game isn't going to be perfect. Melee wasn't perfect and God knows ssb 64 wasn't perfect, and brawls going to be the same way and so will the smash bros after that.

Your asking to much of Sakurai. I know sakurai wouldn't have taken out WDing unless it was the right thing to do for the game.

You need to understand that sakuri is still experimenting with his games. All these new ideas he's coming out with, he doesn't know their going to work. The way you make a sequal is you take the best qualities of the old game and a boat load of new ideas for the new game. Thats why melee was so successful and that's why brawls going to be that much better.

The best part is Sakurai is a smash player himself. Infact his entire staff play the game. They can tell if the game is better than it was before becuase their the ones playing it.

Everyone at E 4 All said the game was awsome. And I watched the videos and from what I saw it is awsome. So just calm down. Read the name of this thread, Sakurai knows what he's doing.

Agreed, I think the point of the original post was kind of lost in all this debating and arguing. Well... kind of. The argument has sort of been about whether or not Sakurai knows what he's doing. Still, I trust him. I think he knows what he's doing.

 

[sfox8]

Agreed, I think the point of the original post was kind of lost in all this debating and arguing. Well... kind of. The argument has sort of been about whether or not Sakurai knows what he's doing. Still, I trust him. I think he knows what he's doing.

Of course he knows what he's doing. And so does his team. They've been playing smash longer and more than -any- of us. If they don't know what they're doing then nobody does. They know these games inside and out. They could take it apart and put it back together with no trouble. I don't see why everyone thinks Sakurai is going to **** up this time. He didn't do it with the other two. Why would Brawl be any different...

 

[PaperLink]

The game is going to be great. Even if the online is terrible, if it's great it's going to be competitive, regardless of what techs they add or remove.

 

[RyNo 86]

Exactly. This is their job. They get paid lots of money to do their job. I'm assuming it's a pretty good job too, so it seems kind of foolish to screw up this game when they get paid not too.

EDIT: Online will not be terrible. We can get as many friends for online as we want from the boards. All you have to do is ask. Where I live, there are no competitive smashers aside from me and my brother, so I think that online play is the best thing to happen to smash bros aside from the inclusion of Snake.

 

[Cless]

Online will be terrible from the random point of view.

 

[The Hypnotist]

I gots an idea... check my sig. And listen to some calming music.

Ok, give me your reasons why you think Sakurai is completely catering to the casual playing crowd.

No Wavedashing

L-Canceling Simplfied

A ton of item updates

Game mechanics easier including auto sweetspot

NO RANKING SYSTEM

the list goes on

We know the online thing is Nintendo's fault, not Brawl's. We've established that and people still come in here going nuts in defense.

So all the people that complain about Sakurai are saying he's not appealing to an elitist competitive crowd? You know others do play the game. The game because competitive either way. Melee was a regular game until we turned it competitive as it became.

Just because he doesn't create 40 FD's, get rid of items for good, and maturbate to wavedashing, doesn't mean it can't be played by us.

What's wrong with items in 1P mode anyway? Dos it actually bother you?! What's wrong with items in general (I know I'll get flamed as a noob for that). Sure, I enevr play with them on, but the game is more suited to have them, and plus they made the matches more fun in the begining when playing with my friends. Pokeballs on high ftw.

Some of the online stuff is nintendo's fault like the spectator mode ****. I highly doubt Nintendo said that you can't even pick what state you are going to watch.

We're not elitist. And Sakurai is making the game EASIER.

One player mode was mediocre in Melee for a few reasons. The game was way to easy, and when it was hard it was because of a stupid damage ratio handicap that made you worse when you practiced. And you couldn't use the C-Stick because of some dumb camera, I know your not into competitive play so I'll tell you, THE C-STICK IS VERY VERY IMPORTANT! The problem with items is that they create randomness, especially exploding crates. There's only one way items could be played with and that would be if... All items spawned in the same place in a pattern that everyone would memorize. You'd also have to be able to set the freqency for each item, meaning bombs would appear less than Mr. Saturns, and you'd have to eliminate crates and capsules. But don't get the idea, items can be fun, only when the match isn't for money or anything though.

No matter how much I say it, nobody will get it. Competitive games are for everyone, but casual games are for casuals only.

Why do I even try?

I agree with you! PEOPLE DON'T FOLLOW LOGIC ANYMORE!




YES, I think I did multi quote right!

 

[RyNo 86]

Online will be terrible from the random point of view.

Your not going to be able to replay every good player you find. Any decent player you find is probably a member of SWF, I say we'll find ways around it.

YES, I think I did multi quote right!

Congrats, you get one internets.

 

[Classic-Black]

No Wavedashing
Result of the engine change, if WDing wasn't intentional, why would it be included if a new engine was used and the game was re-made from the ground up?

L-Canceling Simplfied
L canceling is different, though similar to Smash 64. can't call it simplified until you play.

A ton of item updates
some people like items, items were in both of the previos games. a lack of item updates would mean Items taken out of the game. Personally I don't like items, but that's taking options out others might enjoy.

Game mechanics easier including auto sweetspot
Play the game to form an opinion

NO RANKING SYSTEM
Take it up with Nintendo, not Sakurai directly

the list goes on
Keep going then





Some of the online stuff is nintendo's fault like the spectator mode ****. I highly doubt Nintendo said that you can't even pick what state you are going to watch.
But you don't know for sure, do you?

We're not elitist. And Sakurai is making the game EASIER.
Easier to pick up maybe, but all the smashes were easy to pick up and play. Just cause Brawl might be easier to pick up, says nothing about being easier to master. So you're either being elitist, or overreacting before you can form a solid opinion

One player mode was mediocre in Melee for a few reasons. The game was way to easy, and when it was hard it was because of a stupid damage ratio handicap that made you worse when you practiced.
No argument here

And you couldn't use the C-Stick because of some dumb camera, I know your not into competitive play so I'll tell you, THE C-STICK IS VERY VERY IMPORTANT!
ALso no argument

The problem with items is that they create randomness, especially exploding crates. There's only one way items could be played with and that would be if... All items spawned in the same place in a pattern that everyone would memorize. You'd also have to be able to set the freqency for each item, meaning bombs would appear less than Mr. Saturns, and you'd have to eliminate crates and capsules.
having everything spawn in the way you described would make it easier to camp an item spawn location. Plus there's always the option to turn them off. Exploding Crates seem like they might be toggled...so they wouldn't pose much of a problem

But don't get the idea, items can be fun, only when the match isn't for money or anything though.




I agree with you! PEOPLE DON'T FOLLOW LOGIC ANYMORE!

Your "logic" isn't infallable, and if all you can do is yell at people that don't automatically agree with you, then it's flawed as well




YES, I think I did multi quote right!

Responses are in bold

 

[Cless]

He's trying to make the game more accessible. Just because the game isn't Super Melee Turbo doesn't mean the game is going to be any less competitive. You're just focusing on what you like about Melee and how it's not going to be in Brawl.

What do you care that there are item updates? Do you just want to take items out completely? It wouldn't carry the spirit of Smash anymore.

 

[RyNo 86]

WE WILL MAKE THE GAME COMPETITIVE. A game is not compeititive because it's made that way, it's competitive because that's how people play it. If you want the game to be competitive you will go to tournaments and read guides and practices techs, if not, you will just play the game. You people worry to much.

 

[PaperLink]

He's trying to make the game more accessible. Just because the game isn't Super Melee Turbo doesn't mean the game is going to be any less competitive. You're just focusing on what you like about Melee and how it's not going to be in Brawl.

What do you care that there are item updates? Do you just want to take items out completely? It wouldn't carry the spirit of Smash anymore.

Agreed. Simple doesn't have to be lame.

No Wavedashing

L-Canceling Simplfied

A ton of item updates

Game mechanics easier including auto sweetspot

NO RANKING SYSTEM

the list goes on



Some of the online stuff is nintendo's fault like the spectator mode ****. I highly doubt Nintendo said that you can't even pick what state you are going to watch.

We're not elitist. And Sakurai is making the game EASIER.

One player mode was mediocre in Melee for a few reasons. The game was way to easy, and when it was hard it was because of a stupid damage ratio handicap that made you worse when you practiced. And you couldn't use the C-Stick because of some dumb camera, I know your not into competitive play so I'll tell you, THE C-STICK IS VERY VERY IMPORTANT! The problem with items is that they create randomness, especially exploding crates. There's only one way items could be played with and that would be if... All items spawned in the same place in a pattern that everyone would memorize. You'd also have to be able to set the freqency for each item, meaning bombs would appear less than Mr. Saturns, and you'd have to eliminate crates and capsules. But don't get the idea, items can be fun, only when the match isn't for money or anything though.



I agree with you! PEOPLE DON'T FOLLOW LOGIC ANYMORE!

People don't follow (and this next part is important) your logic. And even if they take out some techs, who cares? You'll just have to learn to play without them.

YES, I think I did multi quote right!

You and me both, brother! (not sarcasm)

 

[sfox8]

Responses are in bold

Classic-Black: you win at life

 

[Chi's Finest]

You gusy say th game is so much asier but think about it: We're starting off with even more advanced techniques in brawl to our knowledge than we did with Melee. If Melee evolved from what it did, I'm sure Brawl can too.

 

[GreenKirby]

No Wavedashing

L-Canceling Simplfied

A ton of item updates

Game mechanics easier including auto sweetspot

NO RANKING SYSTEM

the list goes on

Wavedashing is gone. Just get over it. Before wavedashing, was Melee's competitive scene THAT bad?

Of course there will be item updates you twit. They deserve to have updates as much as characters, stages, modes, and gameplay.

You're looking too much into a demo in which people had to handle new controls. So wether L Canceling is dumbed down or not doesn't matter. Newbs and N00bs still wouldn't fair well against it either way

Auto sweetspot? Is that the one with Link's hookshot and Lucas' rope snake grabbing onto the ledge automatically. If so, maybe they were trying to add more realism. Besides, I doubt those two things stretch forever so you probably need to be not too low beneath the stage.

As for ranking system: If no ranking system means much less disconnections, then you shouldn't complain.

And how the hell can you say the game is being dumbed down anyway? We have footstoll jumping, crawling, jumping and attcking after airdodging, gliding, wall jumping, wavelanding, and probably a bunch of other stuff.

We're not elitist. And Sakurai is making the game EASIER.

So he's making it easier to PICK UP! For all we know it could be HARDER to master

I agree with you! PEOPLE DON'T FOLLOW LOGIC ANYMORE!

Says the guy who thinks he can make a better Smash Bros game. Despite having no experience whatsoever. Just because you made it doesn't mean every competitive player is gonna like it

 

[The Hypnotist]

I meant to quote another thing, the logic was about a competitive game is for casuals and pros while a casual game is only for casuals, my mistake.

 

[Jeremy Feifer]

You guys wanna know the truth bout melee?

 

[Jmax]

no. .

 

[sfox8]

You guys wanna know the truth bout melee?

Was there supposed to be an extra part to that comment...?

 

[Weed]

You guys wanna know the truth bout melee?

Yes.Yes. and Yes

please share your insight

 

[Gomolka]

LoL, gotta love that commercial. I am only 16, so that was a very long time ago and I still remember it.

 

[Jeremy Feifer]

no.

You suck in this game so give up and die. You will also suck in Brawl.

Was there supposed to be an extra part to that comment...?

I wanted to see my feedback I got.

Yes.Yes. and Yes
please share your insight

And so I shall...

Heres the TRUTH about melee. You see, melee is a game like no other. Wether people relize this or not there is NO OTHER GAME LIKE MELEE.

What makes melee souch a good game is if your walking down the street and you walk up to any person between the ages of 5-21 and ask "have yo played melee", 9 times outta 10 they will say, "yeh that games awesome." But not just the fact that everyone has played it but also, another fact is everyone thinks THEY DONT SUCK. Walk up to the same people and ask them 'how good are you?" and I guarantee you get:
A)Decent
B)Im pretty good
or
C)Im, the best
And because everyone thinks they dont suck, YOU get more pride in killing them just because you can if-not-limited to wave-dash and l-cancel.

Going along with that, another reason you like this game is because even if you showed somone how to l-cancel and wavedash, on average it takes 6 months to get decent at it... TIME AND EFFORT. And by the time the person you taught is able to kinda get it down, your working on something else(I.E sweetspotting, unpredictiality, NOT BEING A NOOB). And It just keeps going and going which brings me on to my next statement...

THIS GAME NEVER ENDS. Cause untill brawl drops your little friends and jimmy down the street will never be able to even dream of touching you in this game... You cant master everything in this game and so people will keep getting better untill it ends...I.E BRAWL.

So to sum it all up incase you skipped reading!!!:

The Reason People want Advanced Tactics in Brawl, or The Reason People want Brawl just like Melee is because Melee wasn't a game any joe off the street could pick up and be good in. It tooks months upon years to even place in tournements, time and effort, the will to keep going, the passion to fall and get back up, the desire to WANT TO LEARN more. And for the creators of this game to make it so any joe could catch up (or so we think) in little to no time to us "advanced players"(I.E I OWN), is a spit in the face. I know what your thinking, its like "all that hard work for nothing"...

Well all I can say to that is... Have hope.

#1)
a)Everyone couldn't own in SSB

b)Even more couldn't own is SSBM

c)And Even though theres online, I doubt too many more will be able to pick up this game and own in Brawl. ***You have to remember people get better by better practicing, just because you got online and were 4 stocked wont make you better especially cause you dont even understand what happened.

#2)
I OWN.

 

[InvincibleAgent]

Maybe wavedashing was a glitch in Melee, and in Brawl they are "fixing" it?

 

[RyNo 86]

Heres the TRUTH about melee.

I agree, this sums up everything stated in this thread, except for the hypnotist. You cannot make a better game Hypnotist, Sakurai is smarter than you and you know it.

Maybe wavedashing was a glitch in Melee, and in Brawl they are "fixing" it?

Yes, it is, and they are.

 

[The Hypnotist]

The Reason People want Advanced Tactics in Brawl, or The Reason People want Brawl just like Melee is because Melee wasn't a game any joe off the street could pick up and be good in. It tooks months upon years to even place in tournements, time and effort, the will to keep going, the passion to fall and get back up, the desire to WANT TO LEARN more. And for the creators of this game to make it so any joe could catch up (or so we think) in little to no time to us "advanced players"(I.E I OWN), is a spit in the face. I know what your thinking, its like "all that hard work for nothing"...

QFT!!!!

My theory is Nintendo and Sakurai don't want to recognize competitive gaming and expect everyone to be equal. I don't think not having a ranking system has to do with child safety, it's because of this. And it will really big me if this game doesn't have as big of a skill level and learning curve. Fortunately DI is very very important and improved now, and newbs never DI, they think that DI is holding the control stick in the opposite direction.

 

[Lightning Ice]

What's to fix about wavedashing, it made the game more fun for the hardcore and gave the casuals something to scapegoat for why they lost. Although from what I've heard about the Brawl demo wavedashing doesn't fit to well so if it was taken out for the better I'm ok with that.

 

[The Hypnotist]

I can't wait until the new advanced techniques start pouring in, I'm just afraid none of them will be difficult. There needs to be another waveshinning.

 

[GreenKirby]

Hell no!

First, you say you and Smashboards can make a balance game. And then you want waveshinning to still be in, buffing the already buff Melee Fox?

Make up your mind, son.

 

[Penguyen]

As for all those people getting riled up over the Dojo site, I suggest you relax. Sakurai has only shown us part of the game. And I doubt he is going to expose everything ahead of time. There are unlockables for a reason. They are meant to be surprises. However, long before the American launch Im sure everything will have been revealed online from the Japanese version which comes out 17 days ahead of time. If anything Sakurai may include an extra feature/ character for the American version to justify the delay. Its all speculation at the moment but you have to admit things look great from what has already been shown.


________________

Absolutely true. If anything, i wouldn't want Sakurai's passion for making the game shattered because of angry fans ranting about how he's the devil for telling us something we already know. It's frustrating sometimes, but Sakurai is putting all his effort in this game and the least we can do is accept and move on.

 

[Jeremy Feifer]

I can't wait until the new advanced techniques start pouring in, I'm just afraid none of them will be difficult. There needs to be another waveshinning.

Or Moonwwalk.... just because I own at it. We want hard to do techniques thgat make you "look cool"... waveshine would be broken.... we need pointless moves that other players go.... "HOW DID YOU!! #!%2!15%! DO THAT!"... thats all you guys really want.

Yo any of you guys wanna be my wii friends cause im branchin out.... tryin to get some more players outside of texas in meh wii friends... I got a video...kinda kinda old though...like 5-7 months.. and I was kinda goin easy cause my friend joe cant wave-dash or l-cancel and he WAS tryin to learn: http://youtube.com/watch?v=VK3w3qzaZw0

Anyways pm me

 

[The Hypnotist]

Hell no!

First, you say you and Smashboards can make a balance game. And then you want waveshinning to still be in, buffing the already buff Melee Fox?

Make up your mind, son.

I didn't say I wanted waveshinning, I just want another technique that needs to be mastered

 

[The Dragon]

back on the statement that such and such could create a better game than Sakurai... and that they have great ideas ...while i do admit being able to turn off and on hazards would be cool... whose to say its not only in the game... bottom line is we only know what Sakurai WANTS us to know and just about everyone here knows that doesn't even scratch the surface, so before you so boldly claim you can create something better wait for the game to actually release first... having said that wave dashing was most likely taken out because it will not be as useful as it was in the first place... think about it more ground hazards, break away floors, more floatly chars with 3 or 4 jumps and chars that can do stuff after up + B... this game is changing and i think it leading towards massive aerials battles.. at least on the advanced end of the game, hence the addition of the drop cancel...(Lets call it what it is because you don't you l r or z anymore) so before you say it wont be competitive anymore remember we made it competitive not Sakurai. Also I completely agree that Sakurai is not catering to hardcore gamers simply because the game isn't just for hardcore gamers, and what Nintendo cares about most is how much revenue they get from this game rather than a handful of upset people because WD was removed. And if it was it be worse off because they wouldn't be as many cool features like co-op adventure and such. So in conclusion of my long winded Sakurai does indeed know what hes doing so leave the man be and enjoy the game. And start practicing come feb 10th. I know i cant wait to knock some heads around.

 

[Xanderous]

Sakurai isn't god, and he isn't the only one making this game.