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[SA] Valhalla Smash Tournament Thread. Valhalla resumes October 1st!
- Thread starter zApollo
- Start date
K cool Scoot. I was clarifying more than anything. 
Ledges are part of Smash as game. SSB pretty much has its own genre, what with its ledges and offstage. You shouldn't deny at that. Hey Zero you should get better and keep the % lead so MK can't do his annoying broken ledge stuff
Pretty sure ZSS can deal with planking albeit a bit risky though.
When it comes to banning/legalising, maybe get a formula of what defines smash as a game (ledges, offstage, platforming element (the way RC moves i would consider platforming element), some other stuff) and then minimizing the outcome-changing RANDOM factor as much as possible (get rid of items, stages like Warioware and some would consider Pictochat also) and minimizing the ability-to-abuse-broken-strategies factor too. How much you minimize those factors whilst still keeping a stagelist that adheres to those factors and allows for the most variety is, at this point, a little unclear and basically at the TO's discretion.
Ledges are part of Smash as game. SSB pretty much has its own genre, what with its ledges and offstage. You shouldn't deny at that. Hey Zero you should get better and keep the % lead so MK can't do his annoying broken ledge stuff
Pretty sure ZSS can deal with planking albeit a bit risky though.
When it comes to banning/legalising, maybe get a formula of what defines smash as a game (ledges, offstage, platforming element (the way RC moves i would consider platforming element), some other stuff) and then minimizing the outcome-changing RANDOM factor as much as possible (get rid of items, stages like Warioware and some would consider Pictochat also) and minimizing the ability-to-abuse-broken-strategies factor too. How much you minimize those factors whilst still keeping a stagelist that adheres to those factors and allows for the most variety is, at this point, a little unclear and basically at the TO's discretion.
I wish people would recognize that hazards are also a part of smash.....
And yea drawing the line for randomness would either be just above or below pictochat, Warioware and Picto should be the only stages banned for randomness. Though Pictochat has a safety zone where none of the hazards will hit you, so it's a bit iffy.
And yea drawing the line for randomness would either be just above or below pictochat, Warioware and Picto should be the only stages banned for randomness. Though Pictochat has a safety zone where none of the hazards will hit you, so it's a bit iffy.
zApollo
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2009
- Messages
- 839
Ok then, shadow moses and flat zone 2.PTAD does have 4 ledges on one of the transformations
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
That stage list is stupid.
<3 when fellow Aussies argue with Ghostbone and me with the most flawed views on everything to do with stages.
We spend like... all of our time in the Stage Discussion Boards. Not trying to sound cocky, but we know our stuff Just because you are good at playing the game, doesn't mean you know how to balance it.
I would refute all of your arguments individually, but Ghostbone is already doing it.
Just a few quick points, however:
• The only criteria for stage banning is Skill Marginalization. This comes in a variety of forms, from random elements, to over-centralizing tactics that remove more depth than having the stage legal adds.
While what constitutes as this is generally up to the TO, taking a good objective look at a lot of the stages our scrubby, conservative ruleset has banned should make it apparent to people that we haven't been following this criteria.
• There is no reason to make our stage list the same as the other states, especially when those states have such ridiculous things like: Final Destination as a CP while RC is banned, and Pokemon Stadium 2 banned (lol, good job banning the most balanced stage in the game).
• There is no such ban criteria as "when we play on this stage, we are no longer playing Smash. It is too different". There is no set-in-stone way of playing, and as long as that element was packaged with the game, it IS a part of Smash. No matter how much you long for "no items, fox only, final destination".
<3 when fellow Aussies argue with Ghostbone and me with the most flawed views on everything to do with stages.
We spend like... all of our time in the Stage Discussion Boards. Not trying to sound cocky, but we know our stuff
Just because you are good at playing the game, doesn't mean you know how to balance it.I would refute all of your arguments individually, but Ghostbone is already doing it.
Just a few quick points, however:
• The only criteria for stage banning is Skill Marginalization. This comes in a variety of forms, from random elements, to over-centralizing tactics that remove more depth than having the stage legal adds.
While what constitutes as this is generally up to the TO, taking a good objective look at a lot of the stages our scrubby, conservative ruleset has banned should make it apparent to people that we haven't been following this criteria.
• There is no reason to make our stage list the same as the other states, especially when those states have such ridiculous things like: Final Destination as a CP while RC is banned, and Pokemon Stadium 2 banned (lol, good job banning the most balanced stage in the game).
• There is no such ban criteria as "when we play on this stage, we are no longer playing Smash. It is too different". There is no set-in-stone way of playing, and as long as that element was packaged with the game, it IS a part of Smash. No matter how much you long for "no items, fox only, final destination".
We should also have full legal stage list striking...
but that's for another time.
But yea there's no reason to ban RC or Japes, they're 100% non-random, and have no broken tactics on them.
Banning PS2 is just ********......there's absolutely no reason for it....it's like....it doesn't even favor any character in the game.
I would bring up other stages but those are the three that if were legal I would at least be content with the stage list.
but that's for another time.
But yea there's no reason to ban RC or Japes, they're 100% non-random, and have no broken tactics on them.
Banning PS2 is just ********......there's absolutely no reason for it....it's like....it doesn't even favor any character in the game.
I would bring up other stages but those are the three that if were legal I would at least be content with the stage list.
Nova
Banned via Warnings
I found a wall!
^_^ It told me it'll listen to you guys!
Edit: I might budge on PS2, given that I think Sydney uses it as the last time I was there I remember someone cping it.
Any other stage requires it to be at least legal in one other state.
If it's not legal, it's not even worth discussing as I won't budge, not with this ruleset.
Neither are any arguments telling me how ignorant it is, because I don't care.
SG will though. :D
^_^ It told me it'll listen to you guys!
Edit: I might budge on PS2, given that I think Sydney uses it as the last time I was there I remember someone cping it.
Any other stage requires it to be at least legal in one other state.
If it's not legal, it's not even worth discussing as I won't budge, not with this ruleset.
Neither are any arguments telling me how ignorant it is, because I don't care.
SG will though. :D
Nova
Banned via Warnings
Sigh Eagle.
You can't even post your replies in the right topics.
Just sigh.
SIGH.
You can't even post your replies in the right topics.
Just sigh.
SIGH.
swordsaint
Smash Master
PS2 is fine to be legal. The majority of the match is played on the neutral, and most of the transformations aren't any worse than PS1. There are only 3 of noteable mention.
The Ice. People slide, but you can stop this by walking or just being in the air more.
the wind. much too floaty, changes the mechanics of the game. (bad thing imo but it can be dealt with). if yuo're having trouble on it, just go offstage and float down there.
the electric. If you dont like this one just camp a ledge or make sure you've got the better ground.
The Ice. People slide, but you can stop this by walking or just being in the air more.
the wind. much too floaty, changes the mechanics of the game. (bad thing imo but it can be dealt with). if yuo're having trouble on it, just go offstage and float down there.
the electric. If you dont like this one just camp a ledge or make sure you've got the better ground.
The_Wookie
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2009
- Messages
- 120
Please note:
Due to a mixup with the venue, Valhalla will now shift to January 22nd. Tickets will still say December 11 and are currently on sale. Console tickets will still be $10 at the door.
We apologise for any inconvenience. If you have any concerns please contact us at committee@valhalla.net.au
Nova
Banned via Warnings
That's actually good, lol.
Since Streetgeek decided to have their next event at the same time.
Thanks for updating. <3
Since Streetgeek decided to have their next event at the same time.
Thanks for updating. <3
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
As I pointed out in my last post, the wind transformation's mechanics on PS2 IS NOT changing the mechanics of the game. There is no standard, if the stage is part of the game, then so are it's mechanics (even if they don't match your "no items, fox only, final destination" mentality.
I love how he says there are only 3 of notable mention, when there's only 4 transformations XD.
Ice gives characters extra options, and actually makes some attacks safe on shield.
Wind can mess some characters up, characters like sonic gain an advantage due to the properties of their dairs. (or Up-air in the case of Ivy, Down-b for CF, Ganon etc) which isn't affected by the wind. Still usually stalled out.
Electric ends up getting stalled out usually, but the belts can be used to nullify the lag of moves.
Ice gives characters extra options, and actually makes some attacks safe on shield.
Wind can mess some characters up, characters like sonic gain an advantage due to the properties of their dairs. (or Up-air in the case of Ivy, Down-b for CF, Ganon etc) which isn't affected by the wind. Still usually stalled out.
Electric ends up getting stalled out usually, but the belts can be used to nullify the lag of moves.
swordsaint
Smash Master
five if you want to include normal. which is the one you'll spend the most of your time on anyway. and ground while it promotes camping it doesnt change any kind of mechanics.
Umm...ok....lol
How exactly do we avoid the main points of an argument?
Our side is "these stages have not been shown to be degenerate, and add a lot of depth to the game"
The other side is "I don't like these stage, those stages have gay tactics that I can't handle, BAN THEM"
Of course you can argue that some stages don't have as much depth/take away depth, the problem with that is why not ban every stage that has less depth than another? Why not only play on PS2, Delfino and RC?
How exactly do we avoid the main points of an argument?
Our side is "these stages have not been shown to be degenerate, and add a lot of depth to the game"
The other side is "I don't like these stage, those stages have gay tactics that I can't handle, BAN THEM"
Of course you can argue that some stages don't have as much depth/take away depth, the problem with that is why not ban every stage that has less depth than another? Why not only play on PS2, Delfino and RC?
SethT
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2010
- Messages
- 627
"I don't like these stage, those stages have tactics which enables the game to be controlled by elements of luck or superior advantages -advantages severe enough to ban the stage- with certain characters."
-Fixed kaithxbai <3
Your side?
"these stages have not been shown to be degenerate, and add a lot of depth to the game"
.... yet these stages have been discussed by a selected board and banned.
If you really want to make a difference, I suggest making a push for a form of "Stage BBR" in which you can discuss these points somewhere that doesn't cause myself a headache everytime I read one of your posts <3
-Fixed kaithxbai <3
Your side?
"these stages have not been shown to be degenerate, and add a lot of depth to the game"
.... yet these stages have been discussed by a selected board and banned.
If you really want to make a difference, I suggest making a push for a form of "Stage BBR" in which you can discuss these points somewhere that doesn't cause myself a headache everytime I read one of your posts <3
If you want to ban stages due to elements of luck, you're left with FD,BF,RC,JJ and possibly Castle Siege.
Not to mention you should be banning G&W's side-b, Dedede's side-b, Peach's down-b, every move that randomly trips and running in general.
And stages giving advantages isn't enough to ban the stage, unless the character is literally unbeatable there. What character is unbeatable on any stage?
That selected board is made up of 5 TO's, who don't understand some of the stages all that well, and who put Picto over Japes, and one of them is trolling that entire thread. (or was for most of it)
(Unless you're talking about something else >.>)
Not to mention you should be banning G&W's side-b, Dedede's side-b, Peach's down-b, every move that randomly trips and running in general.
And stages giving advantages isn't enough to ban the stage, unless the character is literally unbeatable there. What character is unbeatable on any stage?
That selected board is made up of 5 TO's, who don't understand some of the stages all that well, and who put Picto over Japes, and one of them is trolling that entire thread. (or was for most of it)
(Unless you're talking about something else >.>)
SethT
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2010
- Messages
- 627
ALRIGHT JUST SHOOT ME! FK between you and grim I have no idea who gives me a bigger headache....
create a stage BBR kaigo, or discuss this with someone who cares about stages ;3
...next time I won't open my big mouth :D
fk, I preferred the abuse about playing Mk...
create a stage BBR kaigo, or discuss this with someone who cares about stages ;3
...next time I won't open my big mouth :D
fk, I preferred the abuse about playing Mk...
lol, I don't want that many stages legal anyway XD
Just RC, PS2 and Japes.
Make it happen and I'll stop giving you headaches
Eh there's nothing wrong with playing MK when he's legal, I don't think he should be but that's for another discussion.....
Just RC, PS2 and Japes.
Make it happen and I'll stop giving you headaches
Eh there's nothing wrong with playing MK when he's legal, I don't think he should be but that's for another discussion.....
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
Don't worry Ghostbone, beat him a few more times on Final Destination with Ice Climbers/Dedede and he'll crack.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
We should, but Nova is throwing a hissy fit and forcing us to have the same ruleset as every other AUS state.
Nova
Banned via Warnings
I've changed "this" tourney to match other states and I've said I'll add in other stages, most likely RC and PS2 when they're used in other states.
PS2 is likely to be added to the CP list anyway; I'll speak to someone and figure it out if it is legal elsewhere - I believe it is.
You and your boyfriend have the stages you want at Streetgeek, Grim, so stop bellowing because it only encourages me.
Also, Splice, perhaps you should convince Conor/Vermy, who I'm sure are nicer and listen to people more than I do, to add PS2 as a starter in Victoria.
Because then, I'd be willing to add it here.
And yes, I know my "If it's not legal in at least one other state, it's banned at Valhalla" rule is extremely popular with the prepubescent demographic.
But put it this way, we'll still have every single allowable stage in Australia.
And as I've said, if you don't like the stage list, go and complain in other state's threads, I'll enjoy watching it. <3
I aim to please.
PS2 is likely to be added to the CP list anyway; I'll speak to someone and figure it out if it is legal elsewhere - I believe it is.
You and your boyfriend have the stages you want at Streetgeek, Grim, so stop bellowing because it only encourages me.
Also, Splice, perhaps you should convince Conor/Vermy, who I'm sure are nicer and listen to people more than I do, to add PS2 as a starter in Victoria.
Because then, I'd be willing to add it here.
And yes, I know my "If it's not legal in at least one other state, it's banned at Valhalla" rule is extremely popular with the prepubescent demographic.
But put it this way, we'll still have every single allowable stage in Australia.
And as I've said, if you don't like the stage list, go and complain in other state's threads, I'll enjoy watching it. <3
I aim to please.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
The balloon and the platform's starting position.
the platform is random in its starting location.
Oh and the balloon is random
(and it does have a reasonable effect in matches, because you can use it to unstale moves, so your other moves can kill/damage easier)
Edit: Dam you Grim you Ninja
Oh and the balloon is random
(and it does have a reasonable effect in matches, because you can use it to unstale moves, so your other moves can kill/damage easier)
Edit: Dam you Grim you Ninja
Nova
Banned via Warnings
Ghost V Eagle grudge match imo.
Get over it Vs Deal with it.
It's on.
Get over it Vs Deal with it.
It's on.