[SA] Brawl Power Rankings v6.0 - UPDATE (7/12)

[Grim Tuesday]

That is why I have never created an official PR on prediction. Glad we think alike.

 

[Splice]

I see.

How many more tournaments before you create this next PR?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Not sure :/

It has been a while since our last one, so everyone wants a PR after the large local this weekend (StreetGeek X), but we won't really be able to rank Ghostbone and especially myself (given I am learning a character from scratch) properly.

We'll just play our cards as we are dealt them, I guess.

 

[zApollo]

I think the following rule should be implemented into our criteria.

- Self imposed handicaps should not to be taken into consideration in this or any other criteria. (This includes using low tier characters in a standard singles event)

In fact our criterion lends itself to be a bit more explicit in some areas for our next update.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Needs to have an addendum.

- Isolated incidents of self imposed handicaps should not to be taken into consideration in this or any other criteria. (This includes using low tier characters in a standard singles event)

If someone is sandbagging over and over, they don't deserve to be high on the tier list.

 

[Ghostbone]

if someone is sandbagging over and over, they don't deserve to be high on the tier list.

-Applies only to Techa

 

[zApollo]

Say that I went ganon for the tourney and placed last. The fact that I placed last because I used ganon is irrelevant. I had made a conscious choice knowing I would struggle and it would be risky.

It is designed to weed out comments such as, "doesn't matter, if I had gone mk instead of jiggles in that set I would have won thus I should be higher than him".

Learning a new character is another thing, but I wouldn't expect anything as dramatic as placing last. It is soley on tournament performance and performance against other players, not character choices or how well you can play with your eyes closed.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Oh, you were saying the opposite of what I thought you were saying, be less vague next time.

Either way, it should be judged on a situation by situation basis. If I beat you 9 times in tournament with my main and then lose once with a lolzy character because there are no serious prizes on offer and I know I can win the tourney anyway (and end up doing so), my loss against you does not deserve to be taken into consideration at all.

 

[Ghostbone]

It has been a while since our last one, so everyone wants a PR after the large local this weekend (StreetGeek X), but we won't really be able to rank Ghostbone and especially myself (given I am learning a character from scratch) properly.

Missed this earlier.

I'll be fine at SGX, if I do badly then that should be reflected on the PR, since that's where my skill level would be at.

But I'm gunning for 1st

 

[Remastered]

Toki has consistantly used random and therefore has fallen slowly down our PR, not to mention he is now being beaten when he uses his main by a fair few of us up here too.

The PR is a measure of your skill, and your tournament positioning. What happens if Grim goes jiggs against gords and loses (for example). Jiggs is Grims main or secondary, therefore does he get scaled down because of the loss? (Why he couldn't beat gords with Jiggs is another point entirely, but anyway.)

Your PR is based on the current skill level, with your current character. If you are now maining IC's instead of MK Grim, and you lose horribly, you are then moved down the PR. We could all be ranked evenly if we used MK, but it doesn't work like that sadly.

 

[Jei Jei]

But does that mean if someone was say 10th on a PR with whatever character, then they pick up MK and start placing better in tournament that they deserve to go up on the PR?
For the sole reason that MK is a better character than their previous main?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Don't get me wrong here, Matt. I am not suggesting at all that my loss against Gords, for example, should not be considered just because I sandbagged. I feel that character selection is a skill and an important one at that. I don't believe that character johns are legit, I was merely giving an explanation of why I feel I lost that set to the people who were surprised or curious.

If I do not place well tomorrow that will reflect on the PR, however, I am worried that seeing as I am picking up a new character the PR could become out-of-date very quickly which will lead to mistakes when it comes to seeding our tournaments. That is the only reason that I am considering prolonging the PR update again, but we'll see how everything turns out.

 

[Attila_]

if you lose, your place on the pr should drop.

excuses don't really come into it.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

If I do not place well tomorrow that will reflect on the PR

Who's making excuses?

 

[Attila_]

If I do not place well tomorrow that will reflect on the PR, however, I am worried that seeing as I am picking up a new character the PR could become out-of-date very quickly which will lead to mistakes when it comes to seeding our tournaments. That is the only reason that I am considering prolonging the PR update again, but we'll see how everything turns out.

this sounds like one.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

You don't think that is a logical reason to postpone a PR update?

I am completely unbiased and I'd have said the same thing if any other person was in my current situation (in fact, I already mentioned Ghostbone earlier before he said that he'd be fine).

 

[Remastered]

I have to agree with a' here, you don't postpone a PR update because you decide to take up a new character. I played Luigi for 2 years, placing 5th & 7th consistantly every tournament, and top 8 at 2 majors within that time frame and still wasn't accepted on the PR. Given that if I had picked up MK or Diddy or any character better than Luigi, I would probably have been ranked, but it doesn't work like that. Your character choice is at your discretion, and if you believe you need a better character to perform well, then that's what you have to do.

I am still under the strong impression Grim, that if it wasn't for MK you wouldn't be ranked as highly as you are. I don't mean this in a harsh way, because it is the same for me to an extent. People don't wait for you to get good at a character, that's up to you to decide if it's worth making the change.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I also agree that Meta Knight is the reason I'm ranked so highly, and the PR won't be postponed.

But I am going to give my guarantee that with the rate my ICs have been improving, it'll go out of date within a couple of weeks.

 

[Remastered]

I beg to differ, IC's are a very messy character. By messy, I mean it is easy to lose stupidly with them to no real fault of your own. If you are playing a decent player, they won't let you get the grab easily, and if you do, good luck holding the chain under pressure given that every chain is diffrerent. Even the forward throw which is the same speed every time, is different against every character, because the hurt box on the grab changes depending on where Popo or Nana hold them. I have been playing IC's for about 5 months now and I still don't consider mine even remotely close to tournament viable.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I have mained them in Melee since the game's release, so I've already gotten past the pressure of dropping CGs and the like. In Melee pools at BAM I didn't drop a single CG, if I remember correctly.

Otherwise, I would agree with you, very messy character.

 

[Remastered]

Wobbling and CG's between Melee and Brawl are completely different sorry Grim.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I'll forgive your naivety, this time

 

[Remastered]

Good luck keeping your PR spot is all I'll say, given that the only thing that will save you is the level of play of the rest of SA. Once they learn to avoid the CG, you lose

 

[Attila_]

Nah grim, you're still wrong.

And ice climbers aren't a pick up and play character at all. You'd be surprised how easy it is to screw things up, and I'm not just talking about chaingrabs.

Drop it. Srs.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

We'll let my performance this weekend do the talking, fair?

 

[Remastered]

We have had R4VEN pick up IC's about 4-5months ago Grim, and he is using them in tournaments. He is now 10th on our new PR update. Down from 5th. He is perservering, but the learning curve on IC's is very steep (arguably the biggest in the game), and a' knows whats up.

I say you play 2 tournies before you change mains, that is if you stick to only using IC's at this tournament lol

 

[Grim Tuesday]

On a slightly different note, how does Jaice feel about the ICs/Olimar match-up? I've heard varying opinions on it.

 

[Remastered]

He doesn't enjoy it at all, IC's and Falco are Oli's 2 worst MU's.

Jaice however does prefer to play IC's over Falco though. Falco is broken good against Oli. Also the CG with IC's on Oli is one of the easiest in the game to perform. I use IC's against Jaice, and so did Attila at Reloaded. I am assuming Jaice will most likely play Peach against any IC user from now on though.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

From what I've played against Ghost's Peach, I like the match-up

But yeah, I found the CG really easy when I tried it, and I've heard that blizzard wrecks Oli pretty bad, so I was just wonderin'.

 

[Remastered]

I personally believe Peach is IC's worst MU along with Snake. Play Jaice's Peach next time you get a chance. I usually get 2 stocked against Peach, so I refuse to play that MU anymore.

She is near impossible to grab if you play her right.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Haha, I look forward to it.

Is QLD hosting a major at all next year?

 

[Remastered]

Summersmash, it will be very early in the piece, like Jan or Feb. Look out for the details in the QLD thread. Would be good for you to attend, it should be a pretty big major with really good attendance.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Ah, sounds like amazing fun but it is a little too early in the year, I doubt I'll be able to save up enough money in time...

I'd love to go to QLD sometimes next year though...

 

[Attila_]

Ics win 60:40 against snake's worst mus (Oli and d3), but are typically too difficult for most people to use, so they neglect them.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Now that MK is gone, you have a character for every situation Attila!

You'll be even more unstoppable than you already were!

 

[Remastered]

He already has a character for every situation. Snake runs even if only slightly in Oli, D3 & MK's favour. (However with the CG on snake with D3, this may have changed, although not many can do it consistantly).

IC's is just a convenient easy win if you're decent enough with them against Oli and D3.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

What I mean is that now he doesn't have any disadvantageous match-ups.

 

[Remastered]

I see how it is now. lol

 

[Attila_]

I still lose to marth and to stages (Brinstar/frigate/delphino).

Also, peach ics is even, and snake ics isn't that bad either. Mk gives them the business though, and gw/marth/wario/Diddy all have (slightly) positive mus against them.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I personally think that ICs don't have any bad MUs, but eh.