Ryu's Fundamentals Discussion Thread

[mimgrim]

So Ryu is new and is weird in the sense of Smash and doesn't really play like a traditional Smash character.

So first things first. This thread is not about combos as those are something different from fundamentals. Rather what we want to be discussing is stuff like how Ryu approaches the neutral game and punish game, his unique inputs, and stuff like that. Thirdly starting the stuff found in the OP is mostly from my own opinion/view of the game and is far and away from being cold hard facts in anyway, it is mostly there to start-out discussion.

Let's start out with some of his unique inputs he has.

The first one I want to talk about is the tap/hold mechanic he has on all tilts, Specials (except Down Special, and Jab for doing either a weak attack or strong attack. In the case of tilts a weak hit (tap) is fast, not very damaging (weak Dtilt does 1%, weak Utilt does 2%, and weak Ftilt does 7%) generally lead into better/more followups, and have less range overall. Strong tilts are bit slower but do more damage and knock-back. Weak Jab is basically a normal Jab that can lead into a basic three hit combo of Jab > Jab > Jab while strong Jab is a single hit that is more powerful the a weak Jab 1 but does the same damage as all 3 weak hit jabs connecting (11%) with a little bit more range but also slower. Weak Neutral Special (Hadoken, and from now on will be referred to as Fireballs) is a slower traveling projectile that you can follow from behind fairly easily while a strong Fireball is a faster moving projectile that is more of a poke tool. Weak Side Special (Tatsumaki Senpukyaku, which will now be referred to as a Spin Kick instead) travels a shorter distance while a Strong Spin Kick will travel a further distance. A weak Up Special (Shoryuken, which will now be referred to as a Dragon Punch) doesn't go as high up while a strong Dragon Punch will go up much higher.

The second unique inputs Ryu has are special Street Fighter motions he can do for his Specials. The basic gist of how they work is as follows;
(Blue Fireball) Hadoken: (Down, down-forward, forward) + or
(Red Fireball) EX Hadoken: + or(Back, down-back, down, down forward, forward) alternatively you ca do instead.
(Dragon Punch) Shoryuken: + or (forward, down, down-forward) alternatively you can do as Hydra suggested which is or what I said I did above (it seems like more but to me it makes the motion more fluid) or you can also do a super easy short-cut of .
(Spin Kick) Tatsu: +or(down, down-back, back)

Now each of these inputs done to each Special gives a Special property to each one I believe. Now I am unsure as to what all of them give but I know the the Dragon Punch motion gives invincibility frames while EX Fireball gives multihit properties (and I believe travels further as well). The motions in general also seem to make the moves stronger (for all of them) The tap/hold mechanic applies to these unique Specials as well and follow the same train as mentioned for the base Specials.

Ok now that we have what makes him unique out of the way and giving you some tech-skill to practice let's go to the neutral game. I'm not going to go into a huge amount of detail here as I mostly want a lot of discussion to happen but I am going to discuss 3 moves I think are highly important to Ryu's neutral game.

First is Fair. This is a really good move that comes out on frame 6 (11 if you factor in jump squat) with a lingering hitbox and good range (it is basically his sex kick).It has a sweet/sour spot set-up The sourspot is found anywhere not on his leg (as far as I can tell) while the sweet-spot is his whole leg. It is just a very good move in general.

Second is Weak EX Fireball. While you shouldn't actually be trying to zone someone out with this it makes a very good poke tool that you follow behind (Strong EX Fireball is also a really good poke tool).

Thirdly is strong Dtilt. It is a low-reach move (so it is bit of a low-profile one) that is pretty fast with some decent range (I believe it is even slightly disjointed). All in all a good move.

For his punish game all I am going to say right now is SF motion Dragon Punch. That should say everything.

Finally I want to talk about his Down Special (Focus Attack) a little bit. Focus Attack is a move that will absorb one hit (so grabs and multi-hit attacks can break it) while he is charging it to let out a single might punch (which has different levels depending on how charged it is when you release it). But the most interesting thing about is that you can dash cancel it (in the air too!) for all kinds of mix-ups. Definitely give it a try yourself and see what you can do with it!

......

For now I'm just keeping this simple without going into much detail as my main goal is to start generating discussion right now. Once we start getting concrete on things and stuff I'll begin to update the OP, or even create a new thread, but for now this should suffice.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

A few more Ryu basics:

Chain Combos & Special Canceling: For the most part, a weak normal can be chained into a strong normal, and a normal can be chained into a special move.

Negative Edge: Specials can be performed by either pressing or releasing the attack button. This can make normal -> special chains a little easier by requiring only one button press. For example, you can input a down tilt, keep the attack button held, do the quarter circle forward motion, and then release the attack button to perform the Hadouken. This also makes it easier to stand in place while performing special moves. If you're having trouble throwing EX Hadoukens without turning around or dropping through platforms, for example, you can just throw out a strong jab, hold the button, do the half circle motion, and release the button right after the jab animation completes.

 

[iLLEST]

Good starting point. Just to point out you can do DP by inputting + . Good shortcut for hit confirms like Dtilt1 x2 xx DP. I'm really trying to find the optimal way to play the neutral. My main ways of getting in right now are making utilizing FADC to get in, and just plain hard reads.

 

[~Burst~]

Good starting point. Just to point out you can do DP by inputting + . Good shortcut for hit confirms like Dtilt1 x2 xx DP. I'm really trying to find the optimal way to play the neutral. My main ways of getting in right now are making utilizing FADC to get in, and just plain hard reads.

Better yet you can just double and press attack to get it.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I think the OP has put it really well. If you want to play Ryu effectively, you HAVE to learn how to EX Shoryuken on a whim. It's an 18% move that KO's even Bowser at about 100% or less. I think before you even look at combos you need to get this down.

I feel good when I land one, though I can't do it with more than 20% consistency yet in a real game.

 

[warionumbah2]

You got a full second to press after inputting True SRK, its really not that hard if hard at all.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

wait really? Hmm, thought the window would be tighter than that. But we want to hitconfirm shoryuken from like jab and dtilt, which is a lot harder than it looks.

 

[onehundredhitz]

You can cancel dash with true DP at any point. Not FADC, but his actual dash/run. Opponent whiffs a move out of your range, immediately dash/run and DP his brains out.

Using Negative Edge is a bit weird with the timing. What I like to do is wait until his cr.mk-- err uhh.... strong d-tilt animation to finish, then link to special. Because I'm so used to SF, I try to do the motions all at once, which comes out as either the move not come out at all, or an entirely 'nother special coming out that I didn't want. Practice it heavily.

If you get knocked off screen, you can use a chain of FADC, spin kick, jump, and then DP to get back. Might be free as a bird depending on who you're facing, but it is a recovery option.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Is negative edge necessary?

 

[onehundredhitz]

Not really necessary, just really helps if your inputs aren't on point.

I play on the 3DS version, so its a bit more than necessary for me.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

My main ways of getting in right now are making utilizing FADC to get in, and just plain hard reads.

FADCing seems like it might be important as an approach against characters with single-hit moves that have long reach.

 

[iLLEST]

The problem with negative edge is you can't hold the button to determine the strength level, but it mos def makes a lot of bnbs easier. I'm not really getting much opportunity to combo off of the weak tilts, since you gotta be so damn close. Dash attack is unsafe, doesn't pass through shields (makes me sad coming from meta knight). Also trying to find a way to land Ftilt2 on shield effectively. Anyone got some setups?

 

[PokemonyeWest]

Isn't this thread, to a degree, just metagame discussion? The information in the OP of this thread could probably be added to the OP of that thread.

I don't want to be impolite. I just think this subforum should be less cluttered with similar threads.

 

[onehundredhitz]

The problem with negative edge is you can't hold the button to determine the strength level, but it mos def makes a lot of bnbs easier. I'm not really getting much opportunity to combo off of the weak tilts, since you gotta be so damn close. Dash attack is unsafe, doesn't pass through shields (makes me sad coming from meta knight). Also trying to find a way to land Ftilt2 on shield effectively. Anyone got some setups?

Try weak uptilt to strong ftilt.

 

[Splooshi Splashy]

I'm not sure if this has been said yet, but if it has been said already, then I apologize in advance. Anyways, I just want to point out that since we can use both & after manually inputting the Circle Pad/Control Stick motions for his Specials, we can drum those 2 buttons after inputting the motions to give us at least 2 chances to perform the desired Special. Since Negative Edge definitely exists here, it doubles our chances of getting the desired Special, effectively giving us 4 chances to pull off the powered up versions of our Specials. Hopefully this will make it easier to get the desired Special to come out when we want it to.

This drumming technique has been a staple of the SF series, dating all the way back to the original SF1. 'Course, in his own series, there were 3 strengths for both Punch & Kick buttons, and thus we had 3 buttons to drum to pull off a given Special (or even Supers), and with Negative Edge being a factor, we had 6 chances to pull off a Special or Super. That we only have 2 buttons to work with instead of 3 actually reminds me of SNK fighters, which generally only have LP/LK & HP/HK buttons and no MP/MK buttons. XD

 

[onehundredhitz]

I'm not sure if this has been said yet, but if it has been said already, then I apologize in advance. Anyways, I just want to point out that since we can use both & after manually inputting the Circle Pad/Control Stick motions for his Specials, we can drum those 2 buttons after inputting the motions to give us at least 2 chances to perform the desired Special. Since Negative Edge definitely exists here, it doubles our chances of getting the desired Special, effectively giving us 4 chances to pull off the powered up versions of our Specials. Hopefully this will make it easier to get the desired Special to come out when we want it to.

This drumming technique has been a staple of the SF series, dating all the way back to the original SF1. 'Course, in his own series, there were 3 strengths for both Punch & Kick buttons, and thus we had 3 buttons to drum to pull off a given Special (or even Supers), and with Negative Edge being a factor, we had 6 chances to pull off a Special or Super. That we only have 2 buttons to work with instead of 3 actually reminds me of SNK fighters, which generally only have LP/LK & HP/HK buttons and no MP/MK buttons. XD

I think what you're referring to is "plinking". When done correctly, it gives 1 frame links a 2 frame window. I'll try this out in the lab!


Wait, no. I actually think you're talking about piano-ing, which makes more sense. To the lab!

EDIT: So, piano-ing does indeed work. It helps me out immensely with me being on the 3DS. I can link strong dtilt to strong true DP more consistently by doing that.


(And it kills Bowser at 80% ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) )

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Can someone explain in layman's terms what piano-ing is?

I played SF casually, not really in depth enough to know about this.

 

[iLLEST]

Can someone explain in layman's terms what piano-ing is?

I played SF casually, not really in depth enough to know about this.

plinking or piano-ing is just drumming your fingers across buttons in quick succession. In SF when there was a 1 frame link, you would drum across all 3 kicks or punches and the game would register at least one of those to get the move to come out... something like that lol. So for example 100hitz was saying that he can more consistently link SF DP from Dtilt2 where as before it may not have even come out.

So, piano-ing does indeed work. It helps me out immensely with me being on the 3DS. I can link strong dtilt to strong true DP more consistently by doing that.


(And it kills Bowser at 80% ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) )

you gotta be really close for Dtilt2 xx DP to hit though right?

 

[onehundredhitz]

Can someone explain in layman's terms what piano-ing is?

I played SF casually, not really in depth enough to know about this.

In SF you tap the light, medium, and heavy buttons really fast to triple your chances of a special coming out. Well. If you're using an arcade stick, that is.

In Smash, same thing. Press A then B really fast to make sure the True special comes out when trying to link strong dtilt. Doubles your chance, especially since you're ending on the B button.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

So basically pressing a and b at almost the same time?

 

[onehundredhitz]

This is how I feel talking to Smash fans about SF stuff

So basically pressing a and b at almost the same time?

Not quite. Pressing A THEN B really fast, so they're still separate commands. If you miss true DP with A, you get it with B.

*Edit*

It may take a while to get down, but go into training mode and practice linking dtilt2 to true DP with piano-ing. Slide your thumb from A to B.

you gotta be really close for Dtilt2 xx DP to hit though right?

Yeah, you do have to be uncomfortably close in order to connect it. At max range dtilt2 xx Hadouken/Fire Hadouken can be used for a great poking tool. Tried dtilt2 xx Tatsu. Doesn't work too well.

 

[iLLEST]

Yeah, you do have to be uncomfortably close in order to connect it. At max range dtilt2 xx Hadouken/Fire Hadouken can be used for a great poking tool. Tried dtilt2 xx Tatsu. Doesn't work too well.

for dtilt2 xx tatsu you gotta do cr lk x2 first and hold a/b button down, it'll combo until about 70 in training mode, unsure about DI right now.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Dtilt2 to DP has incredibly tight timing, I keep doing hadoukens, haha.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Pianoing helps with link combos and strict reversals in SF.

I don't really see how it applies to anything Ryu has in Smash, especially a normal -> SRK combo. That's a chain combo in the first place.

 

[onehundredhitz]

for dtilt2 xx tatsu you gotta do cr lk x2 first and hold a/b button down, it'll combo until about 70 in training mode, unsure about DI right now.

Just tried myself. On Bowser it goes to 50%, then you gotta switch to straight dtilt2 xx tatsu

Dtilt2 to DP has incredibly tight timing, I keep doing hadoukens, haha.

As soon as the opponent's animation pauses in the air when dtilt2 connects, thats when you DP.

The timing is silly, but that's SF for you, hahaha.

 

[DD_]

Has anyone worked out the properties of the two tatsus? I've people beat projectiles, go through projectiles and just clanking with projectiles on all diffrent parts of the animation. I'm struggling to find solid use for tatsu outside of recovery right now so some practicality for it will be nice to have

EDIT: I Lie i have found one good use for tatsu. Run off the ledge and do foward+b tatsu back towards the stage to have ryu hover over the ledge doing tatsu for a bit before grabbing it. gives a little bit of coverage

 

[onehundredhitz]

Has anyone worked out the properties of the two tatsus? I've people beat projectiles, go through projectiles and just clanking with projectiles on all diffrent parts of the animation. I'm struggling to find solid use for tatsu outside of recovery right now so some practicality for it will be nice to have

EDIT: I Lie i have found one good use for tatsu. Run off the ledge and do foward+b tatsu back towards the stage to have ryu hover over the ledge doing tatsu for a bit before grabbing it. gives a little bit of coverage

For me, side b tatsu is a good quick move to throw out when dashing toward your opponent. Unsafe on block, but that's an option.

 

[.Shìkì]

Dtilt2 to DP has incredibly tight timing, I keep doing hadoukens, haha.

Maybe you'll have an easier time doing the input, that works wonders for me when trying that particular combo. I only get a Hadouken when i "overshoot" and end up on .

 

[mimgrim]

This thread certainly boom quickly! Awesome.

Isn't this thread, to a degree, just metagame discussion? The information in the OP of this thread could probably be added to the OP of that thread.

I don't want to be impolite. I just think this subforum should be less cluttered with similar threads.

Kinda but not really. Ryu is really different from other Smash characters in how he plays and thus his fundamentals are basically alien to many Smash players and stuff. I fully believe this thread is warranted.

Not to mention it was @ KuroganeHammer who asked for it to be made.

 

[iLLEST]

Frame counter @ LordWilliam1234 has put together a frame data chart! Should be a good reference point.

RYU FRAME DATA

 

[~Burst~]

not 1 item with frame advantage?
How did this pass Q/A?
Or is the frame advantage for the opponent?
alright its for the opponent.
I'm not gonna lie this is my first time analyzing smash 4 frame data.
How does it take into account where the attack hits shield and the time needed to land?
Majority of the things I have looked at allow for whoever is shielding to act out of before Ryu leaves the end lag animation of his moves.

 

[LordWilliam1234]

For air moves, the (dis-)advantage on block assumes that you land the frame after the attack connects. So it's the best possible advantage you can have. If you connect with the attack higher up you end up even worse on block as you still have to land first and you're still in the air move until that point.

 

[RPK]

If were talking fundamentals here, I'm curious...Is it possible to do a reverse EX shoryuken OoS? Learning this would make approaching Ryu while hes in shield extremely dangerous if the opponent mis spaces his moves. Another thing Im having trouble with is doing a pivot red fireball while retreating as it just gives me tatsu.

 

[iLLEST]

If were talking fundamentals here, I'm curious...Is it possible to do a reverse EX shoryuken OoS? Learning this would make approaching Ryu while hes in shield extremely dangerous if the opponent mis spaces his moves. Another thing Im having trouble with is doing a pivot red fireball while retreating as it just gives me tatsu.

Did someone find a way to EX DP OOS? I can't do it. For the retreating red fireball, just input HCF the way you're running then hit A xx BACK.

Wonder if there's an easier input, koz I get DP a lot.

 

[PapaJ]

Well one thing I believe all aspiring Ryu mains should do is learn all the input specials.on top of that obvious tip people should use the A button versus B So doing a QCF+A instead of ACF+B. This will ensure that you got the Input special versus the default special.

Hadoken, when performed with the input, does 7% damage. It can be comobed from Strong Dtilt for aroun 14-16 damage. Make sure to only use this move when you know you will not be punished for using it. Either at a distance or during a combo. Keep in mind you can alter the speed and distance based on how long you hold the A or B button for. It is important to mix up your distances as the opponent make become confused and put themselves in a bit situation, such as having to jump over a slow hadoken when they thought it would be fast.

Next is practicing Shoryuken combos as these will be the best way to kill. For example Jab 1, Weak Utilt, and weak Dtilt are the best moves to combo with. Practice these combos until you can get them, for best results use the actual Dragon punch motion as it can kill 20% earlier. Next you need to practice when you hit shield vs non-shield. This will prevent you from doing a Dragon punch on a shielded opponent and although using the actual inputs lessens Dragon punch's landing lag you cannot fast fall or change your horizontal trajectory so you will get punished and punished hard. Shoryukens vertical distance changes based on how long you press and hold A or B. The shorter ones are always weaker, but safer.

You should learn when to use Fsmash. Fsmash has amazing range and if timed right can punish rolls and ledge get up options. Throwing out without a care will make sure you will get punished. This is also Ryu's kill move at around 110+ percent midstage. So try to keep it somewhat fresh.

Ryu's Focus Punch is amazing as it allows you to take any hit once and not flinch. You can either let the attack go or dash left or right to get out of it. This is also true for when Ryu is in the air. This allows Ryu to recover high and take a hit and dash. This also helps his somewhat one-dimensional recovery as you can keep dashing towards the stage to get more distance. Other than that make sure you are within range to land the punch or dash away as the ending lag of Focus punch is quite a bit and you will get punished. Keep in mind that some characters like Fox have multi-hitting moves that will break focus. Make sure to only use this move when you know you are not gonna be hit by a multi hit move, a throw, or anything else that can break it. Using this move at high percents will allow Ryu to live absurdly long and get the ability to use Rage. However misabusing it will cause you to take more damage than normal. Try to use this move only if you plan on getting the second or third charge attack or if you really need to tank an aerial to recover.

The Tatsu seems to be weird. It can combo from all of Ryu's special cancellable moves. It does around 9 at the start of the move and 13 at the end. It can eat weak projectiles and on some occasions it even has absorbed physical hits from my enemies. I'll test this more but it can be used as a good roll reading option, approaching a projectile user and of course recovery. Much like hadoken the distance changes if you either hold A or B during the move. This will allow you to mix up your Tatsu and confuse your opponents. This applies to recovery as well as you can use the short tatsu to prevent being gimped.

These are the basic tips Id suggest for learning Ryu. Learning Ryu's combos and special move applications are very important to develop this characters metagame. If there is anything I forgot please let me know

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Quick question:

Does SRK, True or otherwise, autocorrect? I swear to God last night I input a True Shoryuken facing the right, and my opponent legit read me at the last second to roll behind to try and make it whiff, but I ended veering off in the opposite direction to clobber them anyways.

Anybody else run into this?

Smooth Criminal

 

[onehundredhitz]

Quick question:

Does SRK, True or otherwise, autocorrect? I swear to God last night I input a True Shoryuken facing the right, and my opponent legit read me at the last second to roll behind to try and make it whiff, but I ended veering off in the opposite direction to clobber them anyways.

Anybody else run into this?

Smooth Criminal

I don't know, man. I've had my DPs autocorrect as well, but I'm unable to actually replicate them in training mode.

 

[mimgrim]

I don't know if it auto corrects but you can b-turnaround with true DP, bit trick timing though, which is probably what you did.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I don't know if it auto corrects but you can b-turnaround with true DP, bit trick timing though, which is probably what you did.

I used A, though. That's the damndest thing about it all.

Smooth Criminal

 

[iLLEST]

You can reverse It.. Hit back before the move comes out.

But yea the game mechanics read some pretty slight inputs.. Gotta have those fingers on point haha.