Ryu's Fundamentals Discussion Thread

[icraq]

when people are saying true shoryuken out of shield do they mean with the shield being jump canceled?

it seemed possible to me at first but the more i look at it i feel like it's just impossible to jump and input SRK fast enough before ryu jumps. the aerial version of true SRK isn 't as good.

is there any actual video of someone doing tihs?

 

[iLLEST]

when people are saying true shoryuken out of shield do they mean with the shield being jump canceled?

it seemed possible to me at first but the more i look at it i feel like it's just impossible to jump and input SRK fast enough before ryu jumps. the aerial version of true SRK isn 't as good.

is there any actual video of someone doing tihs?

I haven't spent much time trying to do it, but the best I could do when I did try was to either shift shield down and use 323 oos, or to just mash 33+A oos, but I still jumped quite a bit. Someone make a video.

 

[fyreberd257]

It is much easier to set one of your shoulder buttons (in my case left) to jump in order OoS SRK, just lab it out.

when people are saying true shoryuken out of shield do they mean with the shield being jump canceled?

it seemed possible to me at first but the more i look at it i feel like it's just impossible to jump and input SRK fast enough before ryu jumps. the aerial version of true SRK isn 't as good.

is there any actual video of someone doing tihs?

Yeah, it's a jump cancel.

Excuse the doublepost, I assumed this post would automerge with my previous one.

 

[iLLEST]

when people are saying true shoryuken out of shield do they mean with the shield being jump canceled?

it seemed possible to me at first but the more i look at it i feel like it's just impossible to jump and input SRK fast enough before ryu jumps. the aerial version of true SRK isn 't as good.

is there any actual video of someone doing tihs?

have you got it yet? i dont wanna believe my fingers arent fast enough lol.

 

[Elessar]

Until a video gets made, try going to training and slow down the game to 1/4. Try it there without the shield first until you get it. Once you got it every time increase the speed to 1/2 and repeat. Do this until you can do it fast enough in real time.

 

[iLLEST]

I don't believe that its possible to hit sweet spot true srk oos. I'm labbing it in 1/4 right now. I hope someone can prove me wrong...

 

[icraq]

I'm with illest here. I won't believe it til I see video. You guys must be doing the air version. Please show damage in training mode if you wanna demonstrate.

 

[PapaJ]

The fact you ONLY have ~4 frames to do it makes me believe it' impossible barring Basic Srk or aerial true shoryuken. Think of it like this you need to input jump and to optimize time hold towards on the analog. Then do a hadoken motion. All in the span of 4 frames almost 1/20th of a second. Even it was possible it would be so inconsitant you're better off doing Usmash or normal shoryuken. Not too\ sound like a downer but I feel like this comes down to practicality.

Edit: Also wouldn't it be better to either Spotdoge > Srk or Spotdoge > Weak Utilt > Srk? weak Utilt is fast and SRK, even out of spotdodge has Iframes and is fast. Yeah Ryu's weak Utilt comes out in 3 frames and SRK comes out in 6 Frames so I think we're just better off spotdoging or taking the hit on shield, since then we can drop it without the 7 frames of lag. Assuming we can punish based on how we are knockbacked.

 

[icraq]

Hypothetically speaking, if it was possible, is there a better punish in the game OoS? I can't think of any that kill at 80, have invincibility, and hit on frame 7.

Jump squat's 5 frames apparently so that's a 12 frame punish? Just for reference that could punish almost all of Ryu's moves on shield, except for light tilts and jab. Though honestly if someone taps your shield, unless it's a giant hit like Ganondorf's fsmash, odds are you'll only have the 7 frame minimum shield drop time, and Ryu can just drop shield jab (some sources say jab is frame 2, others higher, dunno which is correct) into true shoryuken punish in 9 frames.

I'm pretty close to going on a tangent of figuring out the best OoS options now.. I'm trying to remember but, I think if you're not in shield stun your shield drops in 11 frames, so shield drop jab would only be 13 frames. In case anyone doesn't know, most of the time actually hitting a shield makes it drop faster than if you didn't even touch it. Shield stun actually negates shield drop time in more cases than not.

One thing I haven't taken into consideration is actually shield stun. Can you shield drop buffer shoryuken when in shield stun? I feel like it'd take an indepth feel for other character's moves effects on shield stun to even time it correctly and not roll. But it seems possible.

edit: the more i think about it i don't see why you shouldn't just shield drop jab into shoryuken. you deal more damage and it's really super duper easy. unless someone can think of another reason not to. hell it's better than some character's shield grabs.

 

[PapaJ]

Hypothetically speaking, if it was possible, is there a better punish in the game OoS? I can't think of any that kill at 80, have invincibility, and hit on frame 7.

Jump squat's 5 frames apparently so that's a 12 frame punish? Just for reference that could punish almost all of Ryu's moves on shield, except for light tilts and jab. Though honestly if someone taps your shield, unless it's a giant hit like Ganondorf's fsmash, odds are you'll only have the 7 frame minimum shield drop time, and Ryu can just drop shield jab (some sources say jab is frame 2, others higher, dunno which is correct) into true shoryuken punish in 9 frames.

I'm pretty close to going on a tangent of figuring out the best OoS options now.. I'm trying to remember but, I think if you're not in shield stun your shield drops in 11 frames, so shield drop jab would only be 13 frames. In case anyone doesn't know, most of the time actually hitting a shield makes it drop faster than if you didn't even touch it. Shield stun actually negates shield drop time in more cases than not.

One thing I haven't taken into consideration is actually shield stun. Can you shield drop buffer shoryuken when in shield stun? I feel like it'd take an indepth feel for other character's moves effects on shield stun to even time it correctly and not roll. But it seems possible.

edit: the more i think about it i don't see why you shouldn't just shield drop jab into shoryuken. you deal more damage and it's really super duper easy. unless someone can think of another reason not to

Uhh in shield Stun? Ill give it a shot see what I can come up with

Edit: YES YOU CAN. Tested it just now VS sonic had him use a hammer item but the second i could move i did SRK and the hammer couldn't touch me. This being said I think any stun is enough time for SRK especially if you press and hold forward in preparation although you might roll if you do it too fast.

 

[icraq]

Uhh in shield Stun? Ill give it a shot see what I can come up with

ye i think ganondorf is a good test subject actually, or anyone with high hitstun modifiers. using ryu might actually work too

 

[Renegade TX2000]

Uhh in shield Stun? Ill give it a shot see what I can come up with

Edit: YES YOU CAN. Tested it just now VS sonic had him use a hammer item but the second i could move i did SRK and the hammer couldn't touch me. This being said I think any stun is enough time for SRK especially if you press and hold forward in preparation although you might roll if you do it too fast.

Hey you know where the frame data for ryu is at? I'm curious to know about his shoryu and his dtilt, up tilt, jab.

 

[icraq]

Uhh in shield Stun? Ill give it a shot see what I can come up with

Edit: YES YOU CAN. Tested it just now VS sonic had him use a hammer item but the second i could move i did SRK and the hammer couldn't touch me. This being said I think any stun is enough time for SRK especially if you press and hold forward in preparation although you might roll if you do it too fast.

that explains a lot. thank you very much for testing. i'll get some work done tonight on it. the question now is whether or not we should be even using shoryuken oos as opposed to utilt1.

Hey you know where the frame data for ryu is at? I'm curious to know about his shoryu and his dtilt, up tilt, jab.

there's three different frame datas and his tilts are vary depending on the source.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...wju2Vq5a4irDPLvwfxuOKVGxk/edit#gid=1716482302

http://smashboards.com/threads/ryu-startup-landing-lag-frame-data.406417/

http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Ryu

I'm more inclined to trust the top link, only because I'm hopeful it's the most accurate. It's also the most detailed.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

that explains a lot. thank you very much for testing. i'll get some work done tonight on it. the question now is whether or not we should be even using shoryuken oos as opposed to utilt1.



there's three different frame datas and his tilts are vary depending on the source.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...wju2Vq5a4irDPLvwfxuOKVGxk/edit#gid=1716482302

http://smashboards.com/threads/ryu-startup-landing-lag-frame-data.406417/

http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Ryu

I'm more inclined to trust the top link, only because I'm hopeful it's the most accurate. It's also the most detailed.

All of them are probably correct.

Ryu's frame data is varying because of how his transition from medium to light attacks are.

 

[Renegade TX2000]

Ryu's up tilt is so strong lmfao. I was able to beat out a robin el fire with it. So instead of avoiding it entirely or shielding I can just up tilt and not compromise my position. Not hard to do it, just spam up tilt lol

 

[Elessar]

Ryu's up tilt is so strong lmfao. I was able to beat out a robin el fire with it. So instead of avoiding it entirely or shielding I can just up tilt and not compromise my position. Not hard to do it, just spam up tilt lol

Would that be a tapped utilt or held?

 

[Renegade TX2000]

Would that be a tapped utilt or held?

The tap version.

 

[CopShowGuy]

I made C. Falcon's Raptor Boost miss entirely by using a dmash. The move is definitely a disjoint.

 

[PapaJ]

So I was playing FG today and I decided to see how useful ryus weak tilts were for interrupting. The results were really good tbh. Usually tossing out 2-3 weak utilts/dtilts made sure I was safe from any counterattack on whiff or if they mistimed the punish or misunderstood what I was trying to do they would run into it, yeah I know it's FG so the viability for tourney use may not be as great, On top of that if they were rollers I had a 50% shot of them rolling towards me and getting hit by the tilts. Usually a good combo rakes in 14-20 damage, comparable to a smash attack. So the excellent frame data and comboability should be abused when it can.

The only thing I'd look out for is Characters with Disointed hitboxes as they might be able to beat it out and hit you, anything more than 9+ of the move you are using will be beaten out so becareful. Other than that if they knew what I was doing they would play a bit more scared, such as rolling away from me more often which is easily punish via tatsu or SRK.

Finally if you are trying to punish within close range these tilts are the best as the combos can do as much as smash attacks and come out as fast as frame 2. Any other Ryu's doing this constantly in a much let me know how it works. Remember only throw out 2-3 anymore and you might be punished.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Been trying really hard to not suck at Ryu. A few things I've learned:

Negative edge actually sucks for Ryu when you're trying to combo into TSRK. You need to do a heavy input for TSRK to do 18%, and negative edge always gives you a light input for your empowered specials.

When hit confirming, try to end your light U-tilt confirms with Light Jab -> TSRK. Special canceling from Light Jab is slightly more reliable than special canceling from light U-tilt, as Light Jab has set knockback, which especially at KO ranges keeps your opponent a bit closer. Relatively minor but especially against floatier characters, this can make a difference in properly sweetspotting TSRK.

One of the better ways to edgeguard with Ryu is Tatsu into the stage. Hold Down to avoid grabbing the ledge automatically. This is a decent way to catch low recoveries as it can deny ledge sweetspots and even people who try to hug the stage.

 

[Renegade TX2000]

Been trying really hard to not suck at Ryu. A few things I've learned:

Negative edge actually sucks for Ryu when you're trying to combo into TSRK. You need to do a heavy input for TSRK to do 18%, and negative edge always gives you a light input for your empowered specials.

When hit confirming, try to end your light U-tilt confirms with Light Jab -> TSRK. Special canceling from Light Jab is slightly more reliable than special canceling from light U-tilt, as Light Jab has set knockback, which especially at KO ranges keeps your opponent a bit closer. Relatively minor but especially against floatier characters, this can make a difference in properly sweetspotting TSRK.

One of the better ways to edgeguard with Ryu is Tatsu into the stage. Hold Down to avoid grabbing the ledge automatically. This is a decent way to catch low recoveries as it can deny ledge sweetspots and even people who try to hug the stage.

light up tilt stops working after the opponent is over 100%. So if you want to land that early kill. you can pull it off between 60-90% any higher you will have to rely on dtilt, and jab.

 

[PapaJ]

light up tilt stops working after the opponent is over 100%. So if you want to land that early kill. you can pull it off between 60-90% any higher you will have to rely on dtilt, and jab.

Not necessarily. After a Utilt at high percents you can wait a split second and input True SRK. It will stay be a true combo and they will fall enough to usually be sweetspotted by the T.SRK. Also when I say a split second I mean a split second. The Timing isn't too hard to get it takes a few practice shots but 9/10 if you delay it you will always get a stronger T.SRK then what you would have gotten had you just automatically input it after doing a light Utilt.

 

[slimefool]

This might just be a general Smash question, but it is something I'm having trouble with. I've read all about combos that Ryu can perform, and I can pull them off just fine in Training Mode. My problem is that I just don't know how to ever get close enough to actually go through with these combos. I spend most of my matches just throwing out attacks and spacing and stuff. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

EDIT: I guess what I'm asking is how to set up for combos. Putting it more eloquently.

 

[PapaJ]

This might just be a general Smash question, but it is something I'm having trouble with. I've read all about combos that Ryu can perform, and I can pull them off just fine in Training Mode. My problem is that I just don't know how to ever get close enough to actually go through with these combos. I spend most of my matches just throwing out attacks and spacing and stuff. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

EDIT: I guess what I'm asking is how to set up for combos. Putting it more eloquently.

Watch opponents rolling habits. If you see them roll in a certain direction prepare to react accordingly.

Throwing out weak Utilts and Dtilts as you move around is a good idea to trap someone and get a combo, weak Dtilt > Strong Dtilt > Tatsu does ~20 if they all combo. Where as weak Utilt > T.SRK does 20 if done right.

Sourspot Fair can reliably combo into Usmash at certain percents and does a nice 21 Damage, the opponent might DI but you should still be able to land this. Sourspot Nair into Dsmash is pretty easy to do since the ending lag is minimal as long as you mix up your Jump ins Fair and Nair should be pretty easy to do.

Ultimately, much like SF Ryu, Ryu can use Hadokens, Tatsu, and T.SRK to limit your opponents options and by liming their options you can take the best course of action.

 

[BlueBirdE]

My playstyle lately has been buffering a true shoryu on nearly all of my moves in case they attempt to come in and it has been effective so far. Making my opponents fear i may shoryu gives me more defensive and counter options to work with. Setting c stick to attack makes comboing into a true special much easier for me since it frees my left hand to start the input without worrying about messing up. For dilts ive started using cstick and buffering the srk back and forth while timing my dtilts with the cstick to combo into strong dtilt tatsu for example. Also if the dtilt hits their shield my srk is ready for the moment they try to counter attack with a press of a button. For uptilts ill usually use the A button first and the last utilt with the cstick to start the input and finisher.

 

[RoninX1819]

something that I feel that most ryu mains seem to ignore is ryus hadoken traps and his amazing pivot mix ups. for example. you can short hop b reverse slow hadoken and it will have hardly any end lag and you can approach with it. you can even grab and trow people into it if your fast enough, same works with EX hadoken. this is all easier said then done of course but im telling you its worth mastering. another thing i wanted to talk about was out of shield options, this is were ryu shines. his nair and forward are amazing out of shield mainly his forward air due to all the combos you can do with it out of shield like raising fair to uair, uptilt to infinity to shoruken. you can even get grab set ups. thats just some things I wanted to throw out there

 

[iLLEST]

I like everything that's been written so far about Ryu's fundamentals. Take aways for my style are not to be a rushdown character. Not to be a defensive character, but a control and punish character. Most MU's I am constantly walking towards my opponent, or FADCing various timing and distances from opponent to analyze what my opponent intends to do, only weaving outside of hado range when it feels unsafe. My goal is for my opponent to be in front of me on my terms. Center stage neutral might call for a rising fair on their shield out of nowhere to a reverse tatsu back. Easier said than done, but when these thoughts go through my mind, my Ryu game in smash surprises me. It's all thanks to you guys too that our collective thoughts bring out the best in the Shoto style.

 

[Day One]

One thing I have as a question though it may need it's own thread, bbut what are good stages for RyuuRyuu

 

[Pyrofishy]

What can I do against really good Cpt. Falcons?

Almost all their moves either cancel out mine or are faster than mine, my only chance to damage them is to wait and hope they screw up so I can do any damage.

 

[meleebrawler]

What can I do against really good Cpt. Falcons?

Almost all their moves either cancel out mine or are faster than mine, my only chance to damage them is to wait and hope they screw up so I can do any damage.

Try using light (slow) hadoukens from far away and walk behind them, and watch how Falcon reacts of course.

 

[Pyrofishy]

Try using light (slow) hadoukens from far away and walk behind them, and watch how Falcon reacts of course.

I tried that, they just shield or dodge it.
And after doing that once or twice they'll know what I'm doing and will just cancel the hadouken.

 

[Emblem Lord]

CF online Ryu loses.

CF offline however...lol...dude is FREE!!!!

 

[Gregory2590]

One thing I have as a question though it may need it's own thread, bbut what are good stages for RyuuRyuu

I'm under the impression that platformed stages such as Battlefield, MIGHT be decent due to how terrifying Ryu is with platform cancelling.

Feel free to prove me wrong.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Ryu has no bad stages imo. But his best stages are low ceiling stages like Halberd.

 

[Neutricity]

Ryu has no bad stages imo. But his best stages are low ceiling stages like Halberd.

I've seen some of your matches. How do you feel about Duck Hunt, Lylat, and FD (to an extend)?
I'd imagine Ryu to love close spaces and low ceiling like at Halberd and Smashville

 

[LittlePac]

I keep doing true tatsu away from opponent when trying to hadouken. I cannot figure out why, it seems to happen randomly. Anyone else have tatsu come out for seemingly no reason?

 

[DisidisiD]

I keep doing true tatsu away from opponent when trying to hadouken. I cannot figure out why, it seems to happen randomly. Anyone else have tatsu come out for seemingly no reason?

You're facing the wrong way.

 

[Gangsta_inc]

I keep doing true tatsu away from opponent when trying to hadouken. I cannot figure out why, it seems to happen randomly. Anyone else have tatsu come out for seemingly no reason?

Are you inputing with the B button?

That typically is my problem when my inputs aint crispy when performing Shakunetsus.

----

 

[RoninX1819]

hey guys. I was labing today and i found something amazing that covers people rolling behind you. this may be something you already know but say you are down tilting for spacing and they roll behind you slightly tilt your stick behind you and hit down on the c stick and it completly covers that option its soooo good. and it gives you so much stage control.

 

[RoninX1819]

for this to work you need your c stick set to smash