Ryu's Fundamentals Discussion Thread

[DisidisiD]

for this to work you need your c stick set to smash

You turned around and did a Dsmash? I don't think I understand, sorry.

 

[Emblem Lord]

If someone rolls behind you just turn around and jab combo or grab them.

What is the issue here?

It just requires that your reactions don't suck.

Even better is turn around and combo into tatsu or SRK.

 

[King_of_Hearts]

Ok so possible dumb question. How are you guys holding your controller? I've been trying holding it like a SF pad & its felt comfortable & reliable once you get used to it.

 

[Strong-Arm]

Ok so possible dumb question. How are you guys holding your controller? I've been trying holding it like a SF pad & its felt comfortable & reliable once you get used to it.

I just hold the gamecube controller like I usually do. The only difference being that I change the c-stick to attack.

 

[Tech]

May have already been said, and possibly already common knowledge, but I find using jump with tatsu off stage as a really good recovery option. Just another option to mix up recoveries and least. I also use it as a surprise factor type of option on the ledge. His foot can reach into the stage and hit the oppenent as well as be used as a ledge guarding mechanic for for catching low recoveries even . Using light Down tilt to short hop Dair into DP also work nicely due to the KB on Ryus dair when the opponent it standing. Like I said, this may have already been said, or pretty common knowledge by now, but just figured I toss it in there just in case.

 

[meleebrawler]

May have already been said, and possibly already common knowledge, but I find using jump with tatsu off stage as a really good recovery option. Just another option to mix up recoveries and least. I also use it as a surprise factor type of option on the ledge. His foot can reach into the stage and hit the oppenent as well as be used as a ledge guarding mechanic for for catching low recoveries even . Using light Down tilt to short hop Dair into DP also work nicely due to the set KB on Ryus dair when the opponent it standing. Like I said, this may have already been said, or pretty common knowledge by now, but just figured I toss it in there just in case.

Even the game mentions this aspect of tatsu.

 

[DisidisiD]

May have already been said, and possibly already common knowledge, but I find using jump with tatsu off stage as a really good recovery option. Just another option to mix up recoveries and least. I also use it as a surprise factor type of option on the ledge. His foot can reach into the stage and hit the oppenent as well as be used as a ledge guarding mechanic for for catching low recoveries even . Using light Down tilt to short hop Dair into DP also work nicely due to the set KB on Ryus dair when the opponent it standing. Like I said, this may have already been said, or pretty common knowledge by now, but just figured I toss it in there just in case.

Grounded Dair doesn't have fixed KB. It just has low growth.

 

[LRodC]

New to Ryu and trying to still iron out any kinks with inputs and setups. I have a few questions.

1. I have the consistent issue of accidentally inputting the command for Tatsumaki when going for a quick b-air (and sometimes self destructing). Is there anything different I should be doing when trying to use b-air aside from using the c-stick?

2. Are there any setups or combos that go into strong side tilt (collarbone breaker)?

3. What's the best way to hit with light up tilt and when should I use it? Most of the time I find it too short ranged to really go anywhere and I have to be right in the opponent's face most of the time which doesn't last very long. I know the rewards of hitting it can be great, but I find these opportunities to be few. How can I improve my usage of this move?

4. What's the advantage of setting c-stick to Attack for Ryu, and is it a big deal if you can't? I play on both the New 3DS and the Wii U and you can't customize the c-stick's functions on the 3DS, it's just set to Smash.

Thanks a lot.

 

[meleebrawler]

New to Ryu and trying to still iron out any kinks with inputs and setups. I have a few questions.

1. I have the consistent issue of accidentally inputting the command for Tatsumaki when going for a quick b-air (and sometimes self destructing). Is there anything different I should be doing when trying to use b-air aside from using the c-stick?

2. Are there any setups or combos that go into strong side tilt (collarbone breaker)?

3. What's the best way to hit with light up tilt and when should I use it? Most of the time I find it too short ranged to really go anywhere and I have to be right in the opponent's face most of the time which doesn't last very long. I know the rewards of hitting it can be great, but I find these opportunities to be few. How can I improve my usage of this move?

4. What's the advantage of setting c-stick to Attack for Ryu, and is it a big deal if you can't? I play on both the New 3DS and the Wii U and you can't customize the c-stick's functions on the 3DS, it's just set to Smash.

Thanks a lot.

I don't think anything truly blockstrings into collarbone breaker, it's too slow on startup. The closest you can get is landing a sourspot fair on shield like in the trailer, but that's risky.

The best way to use light utilt is not to force it most of the time. It's mainly used for big punishes on fast fallers. With Ryu it really only takes a few short, simple combos to bring opponents to percents where input shoryuken can KO. That move can be canceled from light utilt and jab but you need to enter the directional input as you're performing those moves for the cancel to be successful.
Bottom line: don't worry if you don't land light utilt a lot. Just practice to make sure you get the most out of it when you do, and primarily use Ryu's spacing moves in neutral to raise damage (heavy dtilt is Ryu's bread and butter combo move in that situation).

C-stick to attack, is like you said, to help prevent accidental activation of specials, and to avoid cutting Ryu's momentum as he's doing them since it takes ages for him to get it back.

 

[WD40]

New to Ryu and trying to still iron out any kinks with inputs and setups. I have a few questions.

1. I have the consistent issue of accidentally inputting the command for Tatsumaki when going for a quick b-air (and sometimes self destructing). Is there anything different I should be doing when trying to use b-air aside from using the c-stick?

2. Are there any setups or combos that go into strong side tilt (collarbone breaker)?

3. What's the best way to hit with light up tilt and when should I use it? Most of the time I find it too short ranged to really go anywhere and I have to be right in the opponent's face most of the time which doesn't last very long. I know the rewards of hitting it can be great, but I find these opportunities to be few. How can I improve my usage of this move?

4. What's the advantage of setting c-stick to Attack for Ryu, and is it a big deal if you can't? I play on both the New 3DS and the Wii U and you can't customize the c-stick's functions on the 3DS, it's just set to Smash.

Thanks a lot.

1. C-stick is gonna solve that problem. It's easier to auto cancel aerials if you use the c-stick. With the 1.1.1 update you no longer lose aerial momentum when using the c-stick to perform aerials, regardless of whether it's set to smash or attack.

2. Not really, but if you land a couple up tilts and quickly do the collarbone breaker, you'll break their shield. You can also quickly do a pivot collarbone breaker. No true combos though since the move has like 20 some startup frames.

3. Like you said landing an utilt on the opponent is pretty situational. Spots to look for it might be when the opponent is landing on the stage, recovering from the ledge, or off a fast falled nair. The more you play, the more you'll see these openings. If you're quick and the spacing is right, you can link a single dtilt into utilt. What you really want to be able to do though is hit a true shoryuken off a single utilt or dtilt. The more tilts you use the more chances they have to escape.

4. For the longest time I was using c stick set to smash for Ryu. But, it's just plain safer to play with it set to attack. It gives you so many more options. Personally, I throw out a few too. Many smash attacks when it's set to the c stick. I also play with L set to attack to use as a tilt modifier since if you press attack at the same time as c stick it gives you the heavy version of that tilt. I don't use c stick for dtilts though because I find using the control stick and a button is far more rapid.

 

[LRodC]

Thanks guys. Another question. What's the general use of weak s-tilt (or f-tilt, whatever), and what differentiates it from strong jab? Also, what's the general purpose of up smash compared to strong u-tilt? The latter seems superior in most cases.

 

[meleebrawler]

Thanks guys. Another question. What's the general use of weak s-tilt (or f-tilt, whatever), and what differentiates it from strong jab? Also, what's the general purpose of up smash compared to strong u-tilt? The latter seems superior in most cases.

Light ftilt isn't used much on account of heavy dtilt generally being a superior poke/combo tool in neutral, but if used occasionally as a mixup you can sometimes get an aerial followup from it, possibly even a dair close to the edge. Heavy jab just punts people far away, and can kill by itself past 120%.

Usmash, or sometimes referred to as Mexican Dragon Punch, has a wider coverage in front of Ryu and hits harder closer to the ground, like Shoryuken. Whether you use this or heavy utilt depends on how your opponent is positioned coming at you from the air.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Ryus light f-tilt has a disjoint from his foot to a little in front of his knee. As a poke in neutral its essentially free to throw out and beats alot of moves head on that are considered high priority including Sheiks Bouncing Fish, Diddy's Monkey Flip kick and ZSS Flip Jump kick.

 

[DisidisiD]

The main benefit Usmash has over HUtilt is that is can be used out of a run and it does more damage. They both kill at similar percents but it's easier to link into HUtilt.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

s.Fierce (HUtilt) is such a good anti-air, too.

Smooth Criminal

 

[WD40]

Light ftilt is a good option if someone is dashing towards you. I mainly use it as a tool to get the other person off my back if we end up close to each other. I feel like it gives you more combo options than a strong dtilt. You can special cancel the dtilt though, so that's nice.

 

[Nifubias]

Is FADCC a thing?

 

[DisidisiD]

Is FADCC a thing?

What do you mean by that? You mean like this?
https://youtu.be/k6Tvp2fBrok

 

[Nifubias]

What do you mean by that? You mean like this?
https://youtu.be/k6Tvp2fBrok

I mean land canceling FADC as a movemtn option. FADCC or FADCLC?

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Probably not the best idea. Too much of a gamble in footsies, imo.

Smooth Criminal

 

[DisidisiD]

I mean land canceling FADC as a movemtn option. FADCC or FADCLC?

That's what the link links to.

 

[Nifubias]

That's what the link links to.

:/ yeah.

 

[Dr. Windbox]

I think that Ryu is a hard but extremely fun and rewarding character to play.

 

[meleebrawler]

I think that Ryu is a hard but extremely fun and rewarding character to play.

Honestly? Aside from possible input hiccups, with a good grasp of fundamentals Ryu isn't THAT hard to pick up as long as you're aware of Ryu's light/heavy mechanic.

Though of course it's mastering the combos, cancels and fierce punish potential that Ryu is feared for that's the tricky part.

 

[LRodC]

Honestly? Aside from possible input hiccups, with a good grasp of fundamentals Ryu isn't THAT hard to pick up as long as you're aware of Ryu's light/heavy mechanic.

Though of course it's mastering the combos, cancels and fierce punish potential that Ryu is feared for that's the tricky part.

I think his air acceleration is also extremely tricky to master. He can't just retreat back in the air unless he uses a canceled backwards Focus Attack. I still have trouble sometimes trying to dictate the match at my own pace and either force an approach or approach myself. That's mostly the hurdle I'm having with him right now.

 

[Hygaro26]

So Ryu is new and is weird in the sense of Smash and doesn't really play like a traditional Smash character.

So first things first. This thread is not about combos as those are something different from fundamentals. Rather what we want to be discussing is stuff like how Ryu approaches the neutral game and punish game, his unique inputs, and stuff like that. Thirdly starting the stuff found in the OP is mostly from my own opinion/view of the game and is far and away from being cold hard facts in anyway, it is mostly there to start-out discussion.

Let's start out with some of his unique inputs he has.

The first one I want to talk about is the tap/hold mechanic he has on all tilts, Specials (except Down Special, and Jab for doing either a weak attack or strong attack. In the case of tilts a weak hit (tap) is fast, not very damaging (weak Dtilt does 1%, weak Utilt does 2%, and weak Ftilt does 7%) generally lead into better/more followups, and have less range overall. Strong tilts are bit slower but do more damage and knock-back. Weak Jab is basically a normal Jab that can lead into a basic three hit combo of Jab > Jab > Jab while strong Jab is a single hit that is more powerful the a weak Jab 1 but does the same damage as all 3 weak hit jabs connecting (11%) with a little bit more range but also slower. Weak Neutral Special (Hadoken, and from now on will be referred to as Fireballs) is a slower traveling projectile that you can follow from behind fairly easily while a strong Fireball is a faster moving projectile that is more of a poke tool. Weak Side Special (Tatsumaki Senpukyaku, which will now be referred to as a Spin Kick instead) travels a shorter distance while a Strong Spin Kick will travel a further distance. A weak Up Special (Shoryuken, which will now be referred to as a Dragon Punch) doesn't go as high up while a strong Dragon Punch will go up much higher.

The second unique inputs Ryu has are special Street Fighter motions he can do for his Specials. The basic gist of how they work is as follows;
(Blue Fireball) Hadoken: (Down, down-forward, forward) + or
(Red Fireball) EX Hadoken: + or(Back, down-back, down, down forward, forward) alternatively you ca do instead.
(Dragon Punch) Shoryuken: + or (forward, down, down-forward) alternatively you can do as Hydra suggested which is or what I said I did above (it seems like more but to me it makes the motion more fluid) or you can also do a super easy short-cut of .
(Spin Kick) Tatsu: +or(down, down-back, back)

Now each of these inputs done to each Special gives a Special property to each one I believe. Now I am unsure as to what all of them give but I know the the Dragon Punch motion gives invincibility frames while EX Fireball gives multihit properties (and I believe travels further as well). The motions in general also seem to make the moves stronger (for all of them) The tap/hold mechanic applies to these unique Specials as well and follow the same train as mentioned for the base Specials.

Ok now that we have what makes him unique out of the way and giving you some tech-skill to practice let's go to the neutral game. I'm not going to go into a huge amount of detail here as I mostly want a lot of discussion to happen but I am going to discuss 3 moves I think are highly important to Ryu's neutral game.

First is Fair. This is a really good move that comes out on frame 6 (11 if you factor in jump squat) with a lingering hitbox and good range (it is basically his sex kick).It has a sweet/sour spot set-up The sourspot is found anywhere not on his leg (as far as I can tell) while the sweet-spot is his whole leg. It is just a very good move in general.

Second is Weak EX Fireball. While you shouldn't actually be trying to zone someone out with this it makes a very good poke tool that you follow behind (Strong EX Fireball is also a really good poke tool).

Thirdly is strong Dtilt. It is a low-reach move (so it is bit of a low-profile one) that is pretty fast with some decent range (I believe it is even slightly disjointed). All in all a good move.

For his punish game all I am going to say right now is SF motion Dragon Punch. That should say everything.

Finally I want to talk about his Down Special (Focus Attack) a little bit. Focus Attack is a move that will absorb one hit (so grabs and multi-hit attacks can break it) while he is charging it to let out a single might punch (which has different levels depending on how charged it is when you release it). But the most interesting thing about is that you can dash cancel it (in the air too!) for all kinds of mix-ups. Definitely give it a try yourself and see what you can do with it!

......

For now I'm just keeping this simple without going into much detail as my main goal is to start generating discussion right now. Once we start getting concrete on things and stuff I'll begin to update the OP, or even create a new thread, but for now this should suffice.

Well, I know I'm a "newbie" to Smashboards, but hear me out. I made a thread talking about something essential I may have discovered about Ryu, I know I know I didn't discover the focus attack cancel, but you'll see. Here's a link:
http://smashboards.com/threads/i-think-i-might-know-something-essential-about-ryu.421109/

I hope you guys can give me some input on this trick I (and maybe you can) use. Gimme some feedback, fam.

Happy Smashing

 

[DisidisiD]

Well, I know I'm a "newbie" to Smashboards, but hear me out. I made a thread talking about something essential I may have discovered about Ryu, I know I know I didn't discover the focus attack cancel, but you'll see. Here's a link:
http://smashboards.com/threads/i-think-i-might-know-something-essential-about-ryu.421109/

I hope you guys can give me some input on this trick I (and maybe you can) use. Gimme some feedback, fam.

Happy Smashing

https://youtu.be/k6Tvp2fBrok

 

[Hygaro26]

https://youtu.be/k6Tvp2fBrok

I have the worst of luck, thanks for linking me to this though, but I really thought I had something going.

 

[DisidisiD]

I have the worst of luck, thanks for linking me to this though, but I really thought I had something going.

Haha it's ok. You are correct however. It is a very useful tech and can allow for better follow ups and safer approaches. You were just a bit late.

 

[Nifubias]

What should Ryu be doing in neutral? I usually just footsies with dtilts or hadoken.

 

[DisidisiD]

What should Ryu be doing in neutral? I usually just footsies with dtilts or hadoken.

Hados aren't all that great in neutral (unless you're jab locking or something). Shakus are where its at. Also, spaced bairs are good to add. Fairly safe pressure.

EDIT: ryu is cool because he allows a lot of different playstyles. The way I play is to put a lot of safe shield pressure using bairs and shakus unitl they shield break or make a mistake that I can exploit to get the maximum punish.

 

[Nifubias]

Hados aren't all that great in neutral (unless you're jab locking or something). Shakus are where its at. Also, spaced bairs are good to add. Fairly safe pressure.

Shaku for the multihit I guess. On another note, how does one reliably get the spike on dair? I did it like, once. I can't seem to space it even if my stock depended on it.

 

[an1bal]

Well, I know I'm a "newbie" to Smashboards, but hear me out. I made a thread talking about something essential I may have discovered about Ryu, I know I know I didn't discover the focus attack cancel, but you'll see. Here's a link:
http://smashboards.com/threads/i-think-i-might-know-something-essential-about-ryu.421109/

I hope you guys can give me some input on this trick I (and maybe you can) use. Gimme some feedback, fam.

Happy Smashing

DAFC has been in since street fighter 4, Sakurai even mentioned it when he introduced ryu to the game

 

[DisidisiD]

Shaku for the multihit I guess. On another note, how does one reliably get the spike on dair? I did it like, once. I can't seem to space it even if my stock depended on it.

It doesn't hit grounded opponents. Aim where his hand is going.

DAFC has been in since street fighter 4, Sakurai even mentioned it when he introduced ryu to the game

Dafc?

 

[WD40]

Shaku for the multihit I guess. On another note, how does one reliably get the spike on dair? I did it like, once. I can't seem to space it even if my stock depended on it.

If you're talking about an off stage spike, try hitting the spike off a sour hit Nair. For hitting the Dair on opponents on stage to set them up, you're gonna want to auto cancel it by fastfalling right when you do the Dair, makes it less readable and a lot faster.

 

[DisidisiD]

If you're talking about an off stage spike, try hitting the spike off a sour hit Nair. For hitting the Dair on opponents on stage to set them up, you're gonna want to auto cancel it by fastfalling right when you do the Dair, makes it less readable and a lot faster.

Dair doesn't auto cancel in FF. Even is its FH Dair FF, it will have high landing lag. FH Dair, no fast fall, will not have super high landing lag.

 

[WD40]

Dair doesn't auto cancel in FF. Even is its FH Dair FF, it will have high landing lag. FH Dair, no fast fall, will not have super high landing lag.

I guess I didn't know that auto cancel implies reducing the moves ending lag, thought it was just synonymous for fastfalling after using an aerial. Either way, you should be fastfalling your Dairs because it makes the move strike a lot quicker and from a SH is hard to read. Obviously it isn't too safe on shield and should be used sparingly.

 

[Deezxnutz]

Thanks guys. Another question. What's the general use of weak s-tilt (or f-tilt, whatever), and what differentiates it from strong jab? Also, what's the general purpose of up smash compared to strong u-tilt? The latter seems superior in most cases.

According to the frame data on Kurogane Hammer HUtilt has upper body invulnerability from frames 4-10. From experience I find it to be a consistent anti air.

 

[KntKumar]

As some of you might know playing Street Fighter helps not only with just inputs but also learning the neutral in street fighter and apply in smash 4 neutral I found it really helpful .
e.g antiairs such as upsmash and shoryu or d-tilt to hadoken.
d-tilt is very safe on shield
Also footsie is very important concept which helps with Ryu's neutral

 

[KntKumar]

If someone rolls behind you just turn around and jab combo or grab them.

What is the issue here?

It just requires that your reactions don't suck.

Even better is turn around and combo into tatsu or SRK.

So its like a grounded tomahawk