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Social Roy Social - R O Y B O Y Z

~Chomp

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 8, 2016
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Before I sleep, one thing I would like to add to this thread. May be a bit lengthy, read at your own risk.
[So I remember back in Brawl, when I barely knew competitive was a thing and my knowledge of the competitive scene was summed up by Mew2king and and hearing that Meta Knight was apparently this term "Broken". I remember being with my two friends and watching videos on how to play Falco. I thought I was so good since I knew the Gatling Combo. Dash Attack to Up-Smash. I remember laughing my ass off having a friend shoot a fully charged Aura Sphere, and then having a Blast Box spawn in the air and kill everyone. The Melee documentary was extremely well done, and I believe Brawl deserved it. From my humble smash beginnings to where I am now, Brawl had also been a game close to my heart, without even mentioning the Subspace Emissary (God, is Ike a pimp in SE). I expect them to deliver.]
 
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The Merc

Hyrule's "Light"
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~Chomp ~Chomp

Just with your offstage tips for Roy, since I main these 2 characters, I just thought there a few things you missed about :4robinm: and :4pit:.

With :4robinm:, you forgot about him fire Thunder/variations to stop Roy from getting close. Oh and Arcfire.

With :4pit:, arrows (pretty self explanatory) and his Upperdash Arm, which in case you forgot, has super, so that makes thing hard. Same things apply for:4darkpit: as well.

:135:
 

CrimsonRick117

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Glad to see the Roy social active again it was sorta dead for a while. On to the topic at hand anyone having any luck with the Roy vs Bayonetta I'm having some trouble with approaching her...
 

~Chomp

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 8, 2016
Messages
28
The Merc The Merc I see what you mean, but I feel like those are tips for being edgeguarded, not Edgeguarding. You don't really have to worry about Robin's projectiles as if he uses them, he may not be able to come back, and if Pit uses his arrows, he won't be able to come back with Side-B a lot of the time, forcing him into the extremely risky Up-B.
I still appreciate your input however, thanks.
 

EnGarde

Smash Ace
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654
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So I don't think I've posted on the Roy social before (been hanging out on the Corrin boards mostly) but I gotta say, I agree a lot with you guys have to say. I should try and look harder for some locals, just settled in Kansas a while ago, if just to get some word on Roy out. Always hearing about how he gets no rep has started to make me feel guilty for being such an online warrior. Soon, hopefully.

As for his buffs, I'm super happy about them, especially dair. Not having commit too hard during my aerials feels really good.
Welcome!


---

Just wanted to share that I got a new shirt. <3 I believe it was Kevandre Kevandre that was the original artist? Pretty sure you're the one that posted it here a while ago lol.

 
Joined
Oct 3, 2011
Messages
1,296
Glad to see the Roy social active again it was sorta dead for a while. On to the topic at hand anyone having any luck with the Roy vs Bayonetta I'm having some trouble with approaching her...
:4feroy:vs.:4bayonetta:MU (and some fundamental stuff)

You don't necessarily need to approach, you can ease your way in and weave around. Bullets are pretty linear and deal very little damage anyways, don't worry about a handful or two clipping you. Continue to dash in and out to bait stuff out from her, try to learn extended dash dancing/dance trotting if you don't already and use it as a movement tool to weave into her range and out and punish what she does. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azRrqKUJ-5o). You also have empty hops and run+shield that are very useful, use those more if you can't EDD/dancetrot yet. She doesn't get much off throws, while she gets everything off a good hit. Use shield a decent amount, but avoid excess shielding or shielding habits.

Full hop airdodging around is really good, especially from a dash to carry momentum, it should help you weave around Bayonetta and look for better windows and positioning, you can also come down after a full hop airdodge with aerials which is key to start nair/uair combos.

Movement is key in this matchup, you don't always need to swing or keep hitboxes out, but they're good to keep around you as a part of moving around. Nair shuts down some of her stuff, if hit 1 hits a smash attack then it'll clank and the smash won't work while nair hit 2 will likely clip Bayo. Focus more on not getting hit than hitting them. This applies to a lot of the game in general, but it's key to this matchup from what I'm seeing in my replays.

Witch Time is susceptible to multi-hit moves, so things like nair and up smash will greatly aid you against potent attempts. Holding smashes for just a bit longer to catch the window of vulnerability is key if they like Witch Time a lot in neutral, this applies to all counter matchups. The power creep of the recent DLC counters means people will use them more as they're better options than before, keep this and mind and try to keep those counters as predictable and punishable as possible. This applies to options in general, people will go for the best options heavily which means some occasional weird stuff or gimmicks will always have their place.

Play patient against ones who like to fish for Witch Time and smash attacks, those have windows for beefy punishes and they're really not worth getting hit by. She has trouble killing with much else from what I've seen, so you can push a stock lead by playing patient against those. Recovering low is generally better against her, since she has more tools if you go high and one mistake could easily mean her stock if she flubs an edgeguard and gives you high ground, because of different aspects of her recovery. If she starts going deep with edgeguards, you can recover high, but only when she goes offstage.

For her side-b autocombos, try to DI out and jump away/airdodge. You can do all three at the same time. I need to experiment with using aerials to escape. If she likes to go for her side-b a lot, shield beats it, and you can either punish the endlag or follow and punish what she does next. If she has any habits after side-b, exploit them as much as possible.

Her held up air/nair which keep leg hitboxes out can't be airdodged through without a lot of horizontal or vertical momentum, try and hit her with an aerial during those if you're above ground.

If she dthrows you, you can sometimes hit her with an up air in retaliation, preferably sweetspotted to follow into more.

Try to fastfall to land and just get on the ground, and weave around her when landing. Bayonetta below you is annoying and a lot of her stuff is much safer that way.

That's all I can think of from a few replays, hope it helps! Patience rather than pure approach or aggression is key.

Welcome!


---

Just wanted to share that I got a new shirt. <3 I believe it was Kevandre Kevandre that was the original artist? Pretty sure you're the one that posted it here a while ago lol.

Niceu! That reminds me, I ordered both a T-shirt and a hoodie with the exact same design, one of these days I'd like to wear my hoodie on stream and then take it off to just reveal the shirt and see if commentary notices.
 

The Merc

Hyrule's "Light"
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The Merc The Merc I see what you mean, but I feel like those are tips for being edgeguarded, not Edgeguarding. You don't really have to worry about Robin's projectiles as if he uses them, he may not be able to come back, and if Pit uses his arrows, he won't be able to come back with Side-B a lot of the time, forcing him into the extremely risky Up-B.
I still appreciate your input however, thanks.
Well, if they still have the jumps save (particular Pit) then it does become tricker. But if you can get around that, then like you said, Roy should be fine. Also forget Pit has less endlag in the air with his arrows.

:135:
 

Kevandre

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Welcome!


---

Just wanted to share that I got a new shirt. <3 I believe it was Kevandre Kevandre that was the original artist? Pretty sure you're the one that posted it here a while ago lol.

Yes it's one of mine! Thank you so much for funding my crippling video game addiction!

:4feroy:vs.:4bayonetta:MU (and some fundamental stuff)

You don't necessarily need to approach, you can ease your way in and weave around. Bullets are pretty linear and deal very little damage anyways, don't worry about a handful or two clipping you. Continue to dash in and out to bait stuff out from her, try to learn extended dash dancing/dance trotting if you don't already and use it as a movement tool to weave into her range and out and punish what she does. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azRrqKUJ-5o). You also have empty hops and run+shield that are very useful, use those more if you can't EDD/dancetrot yet. She doesn't get much off throws, while she gets everything off a good hit. Use shield a decent amount, but avoid excess shielding or shielding habits.

Full hop airdodging around is really good, especially from a dash to carry momentum, it should help you weave around Bayonetta and look for better windows and positioning, you can also come down after a full hop airdodge with aerials which is key to start nair/uair combos.

Movement is key in this matchup, you don't always need to swing or keep hitboxes out, but they're good to keep around you as a part of moving around. Nair shuts down some of her stuff, if hit 1 hits a smash attack then it'll clank and the smash won't work while nair hit 2 will likely clip Bayo. Focus more on not getting hit than hitting them. This applies to a lot of the game in general, but it's key to this matchup from what I'm seeing in my replays.

Witch Time is susceptible to multi-hit moves, so things like nair and up smash will greatly aid you against potent attempts. Holding smashes for just a bit longer to catch the window of vulnerability is key if they like Witch Time a lot in neutral, this applies to all counter matchups. The power creep of the recent DLC counters means people will use them more as they're better options than before, keep this and mind and try to keep those counters as predictable and punishable as possible. This applies to options in general, people will go for the best options heavily which means some occasional weird stuff or gimmicks will always have their place.

Play patient against ones who like to fish for Witch Time and smash attacks, those have windows for beefy punishes and they're really not worth getting hit by. She has trouble killing with much else from what I've seen, so you can push a stock lead by playing patient against those. Recovering low is generally better against her, since she has more tools if you go high and one mistake could easily mean her stock if she flubs an edgeguard and gives you high ground, because of different aspects of her recovery. If she starts going deep with edgeguards, you can recover high, but only when she goes offstage.

For her side-b autocombos, try to DI out and jump away/airdodge. You can do all three at the same time. I need to experiment with using aerials to escape. If she likes to go for her side-b a lot, shield beats it, and you can either punish the endlag or follow and punish what she does next. If she has any habits after side-b, exploit them as much as possible.

Her held up air/nair which keep leg hitboxes out can't be airdodged through without a lot of horizontal or vertical momentum, try and hit her with an aerial during those if you're above ground.

If she dthrows you, you can sometimes hit her with an up air in retaliation, preferably sweetspotted to follow into more.

Try to fastfall to land and just get on the ground, and weave around her when landing. Bayonetta below you is annoying and a lot of her stuff is much safer that way.

That's all I can think of from a few replays, hope it helps! Patience rather than pure approach or aggression is key.



Niceu! That reminds me, I ordered both a T-shirt and a hoodie with the exact same design, one of these days I'd like to wear my hoodie on stream and then take it off to just reveal the shirt and see if commentary notices.
And thank you too!

Nice cover, but this guy needs to get a haircut and shave that long *** beard.
This is pure blasphemy
 
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Croph

Hold Baroque Inside
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Wow, hopefully Roy will get some more buffs in the future. Improvements are great and all, but seeing more activity in the social is 100x sweeter. :chuckle:

And I still love Brawl, but honestly, I love all Smash games. To me, each one has their unique charm. They all deserve documentaries lol. Oh, and some time ago by Brawl disc broke and I was like, "FUUUUUUUUUUUU" so then I quickly went out and bought a new one. My Wii also broke, but like, it's not that big a deal since I have a Wii U and my GameCube still runs fine after all these years.

So I don't think I've posted on the Roy social before (been hanging out on the Corrin boards mostly) but I gotta say, I agree a lot with you guys have to say. I should try and look harder for some locals, just settled in Kansas a while ago, if just to get some word on Roy out. Always hearing about how he gets no rep has started to make me feel guilty for being such an online warrior. Soon, hopefully.

As for his buffs, I'm super happy about them, especially dair. Not having commit too hard during my aerials feels really good.
Heyo, welcome aboard!

As for looking for locals, have you check the regional zones section? Kansas is midwest right? I'd also recommended keeping on eye on the tourney listings section. I know for my locals, they make announcements on smashboards and on their facebook group for upcoming tourneys. You can also check here for a list of Smash FB groups by city/state/province/country/whatever.
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2011
Messages
1,296
Currently writing a discussion video on Roy's changes with 1.1.4. More has opened up than I initially thought in Roy's punish game and what's safe on block. He can capitalize more on his bair lock, he has more potential with nair/uair combos and confirms, nair is an even better combo tool and safe tool in neutral, and all of his aerials are notably safer in neutral overall. DED is less committal in several regards, and the startup being reduced to frame 6 (even one frame of difference) is still HUGE compared to its previous 7.

The biggest things that come to mind for me are:
-Nair: How much more it can combo into/from stuff with 2 fewer frames of landing.
-Fair: Roy's always been able to carry momentum as he lands with fair to combo into more, but the window was tight, so a few frames shaved off opens up more of that potential and he can approach with more fair angles.
-DED: Faster startup means it might be able to combo from stuff just a tiny bit more. His jab is frame 5 while this is now frame 6, so it'll serve as more of an alternate jab now.
 

The Merc

Hyrule's "Light"
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While we are talking about Brawl, i have to say, as much s it had the bad reception, I still loved it. It might have helped that it was my first Smash game and it was a very nice way to slide into the Smash franchise.

:135:
 

~Chomp

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 8, 2016
Messages
28
Currently writing a discussion video on Roy's changes with 1.1.4. More has opened up than I initially thought in Roy's punish game and what's safe on block. He can capitalize more on his bair lock, he has more potential with nair/uair combos and confirms, nair is an even better combo tool and safe tool in neutral, and all of his aerials are notably safer in neutral overall. DED is less committal in several regards, and the startup being reduced to frame 6 (even one frame of difference) is still HUGE compared to its previous 7.

The biggest things that come to mind for me are:
-Nair: How much more it can combo into/from stuff with 2 fewer frames of landing.
-Fair: Roy's always been able to carry momentum as he lands with fair to combo into more, but the window was tight, so a few frames shaved off opens up more of that potential and he can approach with more fair angles.
-DED: Faster startup means it might be able to combo from stuff just a tiny bit more. His jab is frame 5 while this is now frame 6, so it'll serve as more of an alternate jab now.
That's actually super cool. I feel like D-Throw to Fair/Uair is guaranteed now, because I'm consistently landing it, on people with optimal DI and on Frame 1 airdodging CPU's.
It lets you charge an FSmash after the Bair lock just a little bit longer than it used to: Enough to make a decent difference in edgeguarding.
I really don't use Dair onstage unless I feel like going for a flashy techchase, but it's generally not something to use if your opponent isn't offstage (Like the ledge regrab Dair video).
Nair is better for walling and going in now.
I'm so sad Bair doesn't autocancel out of a short hop...It's only a frame away, I believe. Eh, whatever.
 

EnGarde

Smash Ace
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Ah, thank you! I'll ask around for that vine, then. I'll also ask a few friends to play Mario so I can test out different types of DI vs. dthrow and uthrow, I need more of that matchup anyways.

The Ryu I play uses utilt/dtilt confirms, but he doesn't go for the utilt lock for some reason. I'll ask why when he's back.

(old footage of me in the MU, there's definitely some things I can work on)
I was able to find the twitter feed of the Japanese Ike player (was linked to a tweet of him testing SDI on Bayo's up+b), and after some extreme scrolling, I was able to dig up some footage describing some of the stuff I mentioned earlier. I'm linking a handful that I was able to dig up, demonstrating different scenarios. I'm not sure how reactable some of these are, but if we are able to master SDI for some of this kind of stuff, we might be able to mitigate our weakness to getting combo'd and avoid kill confirms.







---

I see another conversation is going on about edge-guarding Pit, and I feel like weighing in on that, since I play Pit on the side. I'll describe a handful of options from the perspective of the Pit player. Pit can use an arrow from high up while on recovery and angle it down to hit the stage and still recover to the ledge using side+b (Dark Pit can use the arrows and still recover, but it's significantly less useful, since he can't angle it 90 degrees down like Pit can; he has to delay launching it to when he is closer to even with the stage, and commits to using up+b only). Pit can mix that up by arrow > double jump arrow (and still recover using side+b), though for this to work, you'll need to dispose of the first arrow by either hitting your opponent or putting it into the stage (Pit can only have 1 arrow on the field at a time; Dark Pit can't do this unless his opponent pretty much jumps in front of the arrow lol, since he can't angle the arrow sharply down). Tbh I don't think the double arrows thing is a very good option, but it's there as a mixup if you need it. Pit can also mix it up by fast falling past the ledge and using up+b instead of side+b. The primary benefit of the arrow is to force your opponent to stay on the stage itself, rather than jumping out after you, since they'll get clipped by the arrow if they try, which can reverse an edge-guarding scenario. Your opponent can power shield the arrow, though, and use close-range drop zone edge-guarding tools, though at that point they'll need to be ready to react to your super armor'd side+b. Just gotta be careful not to mis-space it so that the super armor doesn't run out before you reach the ledge lol, and so that you actually sweetspot that ledge. There are more ways an opponent can punish this, especially if you don't mix it up enough (I can be guilty of this lol), but those are just a few the things a Pit player can do to prevent edge-guards while on recovery.

---

EDIT: Just realized how huge the post was lol, so I added spoiler tags.
 
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Tahu Mata

Smash Lord
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Apr 26, 2015
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I'll add input into Roy when I can, but I think I'll mostly just be hanging around looking at all the posts.
 

The Merc

Hyrule's "Light"
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Am I the only one here who wants Roy's old Dair back? I mean, i don't mind the new one and maybe if it had less start up (i.e. more like Robin's Dair) i could get used to it more but after playing with Lucina a bit for fun, I miss the horizontal range that Roy's Dair would have. It's just a nice cover option.

In other news, what are Roy's Jab Lock exactly?

Currently writing a discussion video on Roy's changes with 1.1.4. More has opened up than I initially thought in Roy's punish game and what's safe on block. He can capitalize more on his bair lock, he has more potential with nair/uair combos and confirms, nair is an even better combo tool and safe tool in neutral, and all of his aerials are notably safer in neutral overall. DED is less committal in several regards, and the startup being reduced to frame 6 (even one frame of difference) is still HUGE compared to its previous 7.

The biggest things that come to mind for me are:
-Nair: How much more it can combo into/from stuff with 2 fewer frames of landing.
-Fair: Roy's always been able to carry momentum as he lands with fair to combo into more, but the window was tight, so a few frames shaved off opens up more of that potential and he can approach with more fair angles.
-DED: Faster startup means it might be able to combo from stuff just a tiny bit more. His jab is frame 5 while this is now frame 6, so it'll serve as more of an alternate jab now.
The problem with DED as an alt jab is that it has much more endlag, so it can be a bit risker than just Jab.

:135:
 

Tahu Mata

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Am I the only one here who wants Roy's old Dair back? I mean, i don't mind the new one and maybe if it had less start up (i.e. more like Robin's Dair) i could get used to it more but after playing with Lucina a bit for fun, I miss the horizontal range that Roy's Dair would have. It's just a nice cover option.

:135:
I wouldn't mind having his old dair back as long as it had actual good hitbox placement and knockback, and without huge amounts of end lag.
 

The Merc

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I wouldn't mind having his old dair back as long as it had actual good hitbox placement and knockback, and without huge amounts of end lag.
I guess that's fair enough. Honestly, i don't mind his new Dair. just wish it had less start up.

:135:
 

The Merc

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Yeah, it's the aerial I use the least, but it does still have its uses. Down air with the start up of Marth's dair would be so amazing, though.
That's pretty much Robin's Dair, which I absolutely love! and then add that you Roy's reduce endlag for the move... Dam, that would be amazing!

:135:
 

~Chomp

Smash Cadet
Joined
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Messages
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Am I the only one here who wants Roy's old Dair back? I mean, i don't mind the new one and maybe if it had less start up (i.e. more like Robin's Dair) i could get used to it more but after playing with Lucina a bit for fun, I miss the horizontal range that Roy's Dair would have. It's just a nice cover option.

In other news, what are Roy's Jab Lock exactly?



The problem with DED as an alt jab is that it has much more endlag, so it can be a bit risker than just Jab.

:135:
His lock is a Sour Bair, working at low percents (~10-25) depending on DI and stuff. There's a gif of it a bit higher up the thread.
 

Tahu Mata

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So I want to ask you guys. Where do you think Roy stands tier wise? He seems to be an extremely polarising character within the community. Either people think he has potential or they think he's trash.

I personally think Roy is a solid mid tier. He has the tools and is capable to compete, but his biggest flaw is his lack of dedicated players. Aside from Sethlon, no one is really putting effort into the character.

And then we got the BR tier list which placed him at low tier, with some people arguing he should be even lower. It's a rather tough life as Roy main, but I'll remain strong and stay loyal to him.
 

~Chomp

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Oh yeah, I've been wondering. If that Ike player Smash DI'd out of Cloud's down Smash, do you guys think we can SDI out of other down-smashes that draw you into the second hit (I.e Ganon/Toon Link/Any I'm forgetting).
Just a thought.
 

Serew

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My opinion on the whole Roy tier list situation is just: Don't worry too much about it. We have some dedicated Roy mains, Sethlon being one. I myself am very dedicated but i have a pretty long way to go especially fundamentally. (so far everything is going the right direction at a pretty good speed :D ) We don't need to try to get alot of people to play Roy if they will just drop them again after a week or so. We've got the real dedicated people to solve the problem and sooner or later our position will rise. We just need some patience :p Use the negativity to get motivated to prove them wrong instead of demotivated!
List position IMO though: Solid mid tier with high tier potential.
 

Schnizzle Fits

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As it stands right now the whole mid tier is up for debate. Pretty much everyone agreed that the tier list that was only relevant for 2 days wasn't even relevant to begin with. With pretty much everyone agreeing that the entire mid tiers was wrong and some low tiers.

I honestly cannot see how people put Roy under Doc or Marth. The Marth buffs, while nice only make him able to KO now, he still suffers from high commitment. And Doc can only KO midstage off an Up B provided they somehow keep it fresh. Roy can at least pressure someone and rack up damage better. The only other gripe I have is Lucas. I honestly think Roy is flat out better than Lucas. Lucas at its core has no potential due how large his how his grab game is and how late all of his KO options are. He has nothing to work off of with his specials as Ness has the better versions of them. If you respect his grab, he cannot grab you and all he has left is nair/dair. These problems stem from his Brawl incarnation's poor moveset and why I wasn't hyped to see him back. I give the devs props for trying to make him useful though.
 
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Am I the only one here who wants Roy's old Dair back? I mean, i don't mind the new one and maybe if it had less start up (i.e. more like Robin's Dair) i could get used to it more but after playing with Lucina a bit for fun, I miss the horizontal range that Roy's Dair would have. It's just a nice cover option.

In other news, what are Roy's Jab Lock exactly?



The problem with DED as an alt jab is that it has much more endlag, so it can be a bit risker than just Jab.

:135:
As far as I know, bair's sourspot is the only move that locks, and it's at low percents.

I myself prefer the old wide arc of down air as well. Dair OoS would be pretty nifty with it.

So I want to ask you guys. Where do you think Roy stands tier wise? He seems to be an extremely polarising character within the community. Either people think he has potential or they think he's trash.

I personally think Roy is a solid mid tier. He has the tools and is capable to compete, but his biggest flaw is his lack of dedicated players. Aside from Sethlon, no one is really putting effort into the character.

And then we got the BR tier list which placed him at low tier, with some people arguing he should be even lower. It's a rather tough life as Roy main, but I'll remain strong and stay loyal to him.
No unwinnables. Lots of untapped potential. High tier or upper-mid potential. I wish I was a better player to bring it out, I'm not that good. But I'll do it in due time.

Serew beat me to placement, I feel pretty much the same.

As for people arguing he should be lower? People just suck at being people. If he stays low-tier, he'll be legal for low-tier tournies. That's a plus.
 

The Merc

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As far as I know, bair's sourspot is the only move that locks, and it's at low percents.

I myself prefer the old wide arc of down air as well. Dair OoS would be pretty nifty with it.
Well that sucks. I wish they'd give him more. Like Sour Dtilt.

Yeah, it does have pretty great coverage

:135:
 

~Chomp

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Ladies and gentlemen, I've just noticed something pretty interesting in the lab.
Sour FSmash locks at low percents, -10. Maybe a bit more. Roy has a second lock. Probably not too relevant and I'm pretty sure I didn't discover it, but...yeah.

That BR tier list putting Roy in F tier, you can't be serious. However, I acknowledge that NOBODY is doing things with Roy, aside for Sethlon and OCCASIONALLY Ryo.

If you respect Lucas's grab and don't get grabbed and have to deal with Nair, you can just SDI out of it.
 

Vipermoon

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Switch FC
SW-3371-7457-0227
Tipper Dsmash easily jab locks with its Sakurai angle and 15 base KB. I'd say it's the most hilarious jab lock in the game since it's (probably) too laggy to actually capitalize on.
 

ILOVESMASH

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 12, 2014
Messages
590
NNID
Marioman123450
3DS FC
3368-1022-7382
Roy being placed in low / bottom tier is much more beneficial for Roy mains in the long run, as they can capitalize on MU inexperience + general underestimation of the character more efficiently in tourneys than if they mained another, more common, character such as Sheik. They could also be treated to more Roy buffs in the future assuming balance patches continue.
 

Tahu Mata

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 26, 2015
Messages
1,190
Location
Panama
Thank you for providing your thoughts, everyone, and I agree with what you all said. You guys are much better at this analysis stuff than me, so I was curious.
 
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