Social Roy Social - R O Y B O Y Z

[LordTakeo]

Isn't "A skilled Roy can beat any Fox" a joke though?

It is! Hence I made it, as a sort of jokes.

 

[DarkDeity15]

, , , , ,, and are all pretty bad.

Is also pretty terrible.

 

[Serew]

I have to disagree on Rosalina being very bad, i feel like Rosa is very doable if not good once you know how to go around it (This comes from experience with one of my main training partners being a rosalina main).
I totally agree on Ness and Sheik being bad.
For falcon/ZSS/Fox/Mario i'd still say 45/55
For pika and sonic. hmmm haven't played them enough to really say tbh, i feel like sonic could be very bad (and frustrating ) and pika would be okay (45/55) if you avoid his kill moves.
But in this game, a skilled Roy truly can beat any fox

Now on the people not developing Roy, we still only have a small group developing him. but we atleast have some. And maybe if this one breakthrough with Roy happens, people might get inspired again I still strive to bring the best out of Roy and everything is going the right way so far.

For tournament nerves... Hmm.. that's something you will probably get over by going to more and more locals. Maybe try listening to music? I have been going to lots of locals with lots of people cheering against me even. and you know, after a while the nerves become less and less (even though they're still here atm, but as i said, waaaay less)

And this is also very important: Don't let yourself be dragged down by Roy being so low on the tier lists. This is indeed cause of our results but i'm very sure we can get so much higher. AND don't be overhyped by buffs. i've seen some people picking up Roy cause of the new buffs being so amazing, and while ofc being very nice. It's only gonna dissapoint if you overhype it.

My general mindset for playing is mainly fun, and beating certain people by getting better. But the moment you focus too much on getting better by forgetting fun, that's when your improvement starts to slow down or even stop completely. I play alot of matches for fun between serious training sessions and tournaments. It keeps the game fun and keeps me alot more motivated to keep going! So if you feel down at the game sometimes, focus less on results, do it cause you love the game.

Especially these last two statements are very important.

Keep the ph1r3 burning boys.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

That, and I miss the Ghost tho not as much as Randall


Oh wow... I almost forgot what your original name was lol. Sup?


How are we supposed to encourage diversity and develop a character's meta when we tell others, "Don't play X. Play Y because that character is 100x better"? I ask myself that question whenever I see people tell others to drop their main and play a higher tier character.

It seems like you have interest in developing Roy's meta and getting results, so I say go for it. Will you get to a point where you feel like you can't get anywhere with Roy? Maybe. Maybe not. You'll never know unless you invest a good amount of of time and energy into Roy. So yeah, especially with these buffs, Roy's worth developing. You can always co-main Cloud if you really want to play him as well.

And honestly, my local takes pride when uncommon characters make the power rankings. People love to compliment on the character diversity. So, I think there might be some people in your scene that would love to see your Roy take names, make upsets, and shoot straight up to the PR lol.


Ayyy, what's up?


I wish I knew the answer to this. I still get way too nervous in a competitive environment; I seem to play better during friendlies and whatnot. I would think the more you go to tourneys, the less nervous you'll eventually get. For some it might take longer. As for calming nerves in the moment, you can try collecting yourself and breathing techniques, especially when you just lost a stock. Try experimenting with music as well. Certain songs might help you relax and concentrate more. I really wish I knew how to stop heart palpitations, though. It's probably the worst offender for me.

To prepare for upcoming tourneys... hm. I'd say get as much practice and match-up experience as you can. I got to weeklies and usually a smashfest every week. So check if your local has any other Smash events you can attend. Playing more causally can help you experiment and try new things, offline or online.

As for getting people to play Roy over Cloud, Ike, or Corrin, it's going to be tough. All we really have going to appeal to people picking him up is that he's an underdeveloped fighter who needs results, his recent buffs, and the content on @Gawain and Serew 's channels which might be good motivators.

A lot of people I've met in Smash discussions recently are adamant that Roy will never be as good as Ike or newly-buffed Marth, so they're part of the wall keeping Roy from being developed. We just need to find a way around them.

Aaaaaa you finally went to those tournaments! I'm proud!!

What are Roy's badly losing matchups?

I feel like Sheik/Pikachu/Ness/Dedede are 40/60 for sure, I don't think they're 35/65 bad or that Roy has any unwinnables.

Honestly, nothing is stopping me. It's not like I'm a top player who HAS to use a top tier character. I'm just a little bummed that I probably have to learn Roy all by myself since there are hardly any tournament vids of him. Oh well. Just something I have to live with. I should be excited.

Isn't "A skilled Roy can beat any Fox" a joke though? I normally see it used mockingly on people who like to pretend that tiers don't exist. It's the character version of "tiers don exits" joke. Pretty much everyone in Competitive Melee, even the Roy mains all accept the fact that Roy isn't very good in that game, and couldn't beat a decent Fox even if they were the best Roy, correct me if I'm wrong. =P


What's up brooo~? Long time no see!

Yeah the "Roy doesn't have results" thing has been bugging me too, especially since even Mewtwo and Lucas have been getting more attention lately. The whole "results" thing is kinda annoying; I can see why people need results in order to consider a certain character to be good, but we have a roster of 58 characters. There are characters that are bound to be used more than others. Characters that have more options or have unique movesets are more likely to be developed than clones or even semi-clones. Unfair, but that's how it is I guess. Can't get everyone to main every character, even though that would be nice.

I think part of the reason why Roy is undeveloped is because of psychological reasons. People are used to Roy being the butt of the joke, or being mediocre. People by nature are attracted to successful characters, and Roy is a little too humble of a character for that. To imagine Roy being good is kind of a hard thing to imagine for some people. I actually think that out of all the FE characters in SSB4, he's the most unpopular. Marth is still popular because he's Marth, Ike is popular not only because he's Ike, but because he's actually considered viable by many people at this point; Robin is popular because of Awakening and because he's not a "generic sword user", and Lucina is popular because of Awakening.

Corrin is a bit of a mixed bag, but even he's gotten more of a positive reception than Roy due to his unique moveset. I mean, despite him being a sixth FE character, people are already trying to develop his meta.

This post sounds a bit depressing; sorry. I could be completely wrong in all of this, but that's how it seems to be at the moment. Like I said, at this point it's our job to develop Roy's meta; we can try convincing other people to give him a chance until the cows come home, but ultimately you can't change people's way of thinking. *shrug*

By the way, is it true that Roy's meta in Melee never developed because people kept refusing his potential? I mean, I know one or two Melee Roy mains who admit he's pretty bad in Melee. I honestly think he never developed in Melee because he just wasn't good. For example, he had a lot of hit box problems if I recall correctly.



Unfortunately, I can't really help you on the whole tournament nerves thing. I've noticed that when I went to my second tournament the other day, my nerves died down after my second losers battle; I lost to the guy, but I did pretty well; just did a couple of mistakes and he adapted faster than I adapted to him. What I did to calm my nerves was bring some friends around to give me tips, or maybe cheer me on. That helped quite a bit I think. Just keep going to tournaments and you'll get used to it. You'll never NOT be nervous, but you'll be less and less nervous the more times you win.

Yeah, I also think that might be why he's lacking development in 4, lack of popularity compared to those five and people just not wanting to admit he's good for those reasons. With Marth's buffs, people don't even want to put Roy on Marth's level anymore. There's so much Marth/Ike bias out there it's crazy, and people are really hyping up Corrin. They're going crazy over early counter kills, spaced lance hits, side-b tech, basic fair/falling nair combos, and up-b kills. ESAM picking up Corrin may do a lot for Corrin, so imagine if someone like Dabuz had a secondary Roy.

With Melee, Roy indeed has worse frame data than Marth and he's not top/high material but he could have been more developed and at least slightly better if he was used more by good players.
If Marth were never in Melee but Roy somehow was, I think it'd do a decent amount for Roy.
I've seen Roy pull crazy stuff in teams and I've seen him do great stuff in singles. Top 3 at MLG was something he did in Melee's prime, one of the most iconic Melee tournaments of all time. Romance in CO's always gone on tears with Roy and placed well at huge tourneys. Masashi in Japan played a LOT of Roy and did impressive things vs. Japanese players with him.
I've even seen him pulled in Grand Finals by a Marth/Falco player who was down a game or two and he turned the whole thing around, I think he made the comeback that set and won either 3-1 or 3-0 the next set.
I don't know if the character's good or bad, but I've seen wonders and upsets that continue to keep me curious.
He still has a lot of underutilized stuff and some cool jank that never really was used, and a lot that could be pushed further, even if he's not the best.
His tech chasing tools are better than Marth's, he can 0-to-death a good amount of characters with fthrow and/or dthrow in Melee, and a lot of what he can do in footsies and with general punish game is underutilized.

Roy indeed didn't really have anything going for him over Marth for players to invest in, but he could have done a decent amount more and so much of him wasn't unlocked like it could have been.

Seeing him overshadowed by Marth/Ike/Cloud/Corrin and the typical popular top/high or even mid picks remind me of Melee, where development halted, and Roy stayed in the lower tiers. I think it'll happen again and he'll stay low if he's never pushed by a wave of dedicated players, so my goal is to maximize my potential, find other Roy mains, and get as many people as I can to use him.

I have to disagree on Rosalina being very bad, i feel like Rosa is very doable if not good once you know how to go around it (This comes from experience with one of my main training partners being a rosalina main).
I totally agree on Ness and Sheik being bad.
For falcon/ZSS/Fox/Mario i'd still say 45/55
For pika and sonic. hmmm haven't played them enough to really say tbh, i feel like sonic could be very bad (and frustrating ) and pika would be okay (45/55) if you avoid his kill moves.
But in this game, a skilled Roy truly can beat any fox

Now on the people not developing Roy, we still only have a small group developing him. but we atleast have some. And maybe if this one breakthrough with Roy happens, people might get inspired again I still strive to bring the best out of Roy and everything is going the right way so far.

For tournament nerves... Hmm.. that's something you will probably get over by going to more and more locals. Maybe try listening to music? I have been going to lots of locals with lots of people cheering against me even. and you know, after a while the nerves become less and less (even though they're still here atm, but as i said, waaaay less)

And this is also very important: Don't let yourself be dragged down by Roy being so low on the tier lists. This is indeed cause of our results but i'm very sure we can get so much higher. AND don't be overhyped by buffs. i've seen some people picking up Roy cause of the new buffs being so amazing, and while ofc being very nice. It's only gonna dissapoint if you overhype it.

My general mindset for playing is mainly fun, and beating certain people by getting better. But the moment you focus too much on getting better by forgetting fun, that's when your improvement starts to slow down or even stop completely. I play alot of matches for fun between serious training sessions and tournaments. It keeps the game fun and keeps me alot more motivated to keep going! So if you feel down at the game sometimes, focus less on results, do it cause you love the game.

Especially these last two statements are very important.

Keep the ph1r3 burning boys.

Thank you so much for this. I also agree that Rosalina isn't bad, you have so many tools to dispose of Luma, dash attack being king, and Rosa's best tools to catch landings (smashes, tilts, up air, jab) are counter food. If she expects the counter and plays around it, you have other options to land.
Neutral vs. her is annoying, but you have the tools to win it, and she really eats your punish game plus dies early to your tools. She's very susceptible to Roy's kill options (especially with her massive hurtbox, I've landed ftilt/fsmash so many times when she's behind me) and you can really hurt her landings more than she can for yours.

I'd agree on Ness/Sheik being bad (maybe 40-60ish, your tools against them keep it from being worse) and I'd put Pika on their level in terms of bad MU's, but I don't think anyone else is that bad besides Dedede who eats sword users in general.

I don't think Sonic's worse than the Mario/Fox/ZSS/Falcon area, it's just a very annoying and time-consuming MU but it's likely 50/50, and you have more good stages vs. him than he does on you.

 

[LordTakeo]

Is also pretty terrible.

I dunno, I found rosaluma always a not too bad match-up. We smash her luma away quite often.

 

[Serew]

dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523 You're welcome We really need some more positivity tbh :D Bring some ph1r3 to the darkness and stuff. Ph1r3 jokes oh yeeaah! xD

Overall i feel like a good and positive mindset is one of the most important things when getting better at smash.

Also haha yeah D3 is pretty painful. Aerial blazer not knocking away gordo kinda sucks too We have no Sonics here, we do have a pika so i will have to learn that matchup sometime.
Right, i also kinda forgot to mention diddy. he's also really hard to deal with but as said before, unwinnable matchups aren't really a thing here. The sheik matchup also really depends tbh, but in optimal it's bad. there's just a huge difference between medium and actual good sheiks. where good sheiks will combo us alot and mid will just do some damage.

 

[EnGarde]

tbh, at this point I'm less worried about trying to woo more people into using Roy, and focusing on building friendships with those that are using Roy right now. I feel like we have the talent here already, people that are willing to learn and grow with the character, and grow as players lol. I've met a lot of really awesome Roy players now, and I feel like the friendships I'm making here now are as important as anything else lol.

 

[DarkDeity15]

I dunno, I found rosaluma always a not too bad match-up. We smash her luma away quite often.

Usually we can't do so without getting grabbed or punished in some way for even trying. Maybe with the buffs we can use Fair or Nair but I'm not sure.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

tbh, at this point I'm less worried about trying to woo more people into using Roy, and focusing on building friendships with those that are using Roy right now. I feel like we have the talent here already, people that are willing to learn and grow with the character, and grow as players lol. I've met a lot of really awesome Roy players now, and I feel like the friendships I'm making here now are as important as anything else lol.

Yeah, that's what I've been subconsciously thinking, but you hit the nail on the head. Say, which Roy chat on Skype/Discord is the most active atm? I'd like to post VOD's, discuss, get matches and tips, etc. whenever I'm free.
I'd also like to be more active on the boards here and get more involved in threads and with other users.

 

[Serew]

Yeah, that's what I've been subconsciously thinking, but you hit the nail on the head. Say, which Roy chat on Skype/Discord is the most active atm? I'd like to post VOD's, discuss, get matches and tips, etc. whenever I'm free.
I'd also like to be more active on the boards here and get more involved in threads and with other users.

The skype has migrated to discord, it's pretty active :D https://discord.gg/0am7ORpgdo31BD1D make sure to register your account properly (if this is your first time using discord anyways, but probably not ) hope to see you there!

 

[Lady Kuki]

Yeah, I also think that might be why he's lacking development in 4, lack of popularity compared to those five and people just not wanting to admit he's good for those reasons. With Marth's buffs, people don't even want to put Roy on Marth's level anymore. There's so much Marth/Ike bias out there it's crazy, and people are really hyping up Corrin. They're going crazy over early counter kills, spaced lance hits, side-b tech, basic fair/falling nair combos, and up-b kills. ESAM picking up Corrin may do a lot for Corrin, so imagine if someone like Dabuz had a secondary Roy.

With Melee, Roy indeed has worse frame data than Marth and he's not top/high material but he could have been more developed and at least slightly better if he was used more by good players.
If Marth were never in Melee but Roy somehow was, I think it'd do a decent amount for Roy.
I've seen Roy pull crazy stuff in teams and I've seen him do great stuff in singles. Top 3 at MLG was something he did in Melee's prime, one of the most iconic Melee tournaments of all time. Romance in CO's always gone on tears with Roy and placed well at huge tourneys. Masashi in Japan played a LOT of Roy and did impressive things vs. Japanese players with him.
I've even seen him pulled in Grand Finals by a Marth/Falco player who was down a game or two and he turned the whole thing around, I think he made the comeback that set and won either 3-1 or 3-0 the next set.
I don't know if the character's good or bad, but I've seen wonders and upsets that continue to keep me curious.
He still has a lot of underutilized stuff and some cool jank that never really was used, and a lot that could be pushed further, even if he's not the best.
His tech chasing tools are better than Marth's, he can 0-to-death a good amount of characters with fthrow and/or dthrow in Melee, and a lot of what he can do in footsies and with general punish game is underutilized.

Roy indeed didn't really have anything going for him over Marth for players to invest in, but he could have done a decent amount more and so much of him wasn't unlocked like it could have been.

Seeing him overshadowed by Marth/Ike/Cloud/Corrin and the typical popular top/high or even mid picks remind me of Melee, where development halted, and Roy stayed in the lower tiers. I think it'll happen again and he'll stay low if he's never pushed by a wave of dedicated players, so my goal is to maximize my potential, find other Roy mains, and get as many people as I can to use him.

Yep. Honestly, I've given up trying to convince that Roy was good long time ago. I pretty much have been in the "Roy isn't anything until he gets results" category. People are either calling him really good, or really bad; both are harming his potential because all these extremes do is convince people that Roy isn't worth using. Call him really good, and people will play him only to be unimpressed. Call him really bad, and then no one will touch him, because who wants to play a bad character? The thing that sucks about competitive play is that people always assume they're right, rather than admitting that they don't know everything about the character. This is the main reason why I just lurk on the competitive boards; I know next to nothing when it comes to whatever potential these characters have in Smash. Rather than just calling one character flat out terrible, I'd rather wait for results first unless if the character has been tested multiple tries OR if the character is Zelda, lol.

And about the Marth buffs; yeah people have been hyping up Marth waay more than Roy now, yet people still call Roy overhyped. People are convinced that Marth/Lucina are viable now, and whenever you bring up Roy's buffs they brush it off as if the buffs did nothing. Seriously. I see people talk about Marth/Lucina/Ike buffs everywhere I go, and I've yet to see any significant discussion on Roy's buffs. It's because Marth and Lucina are just more liked in general; Marth was one of the best characters in Melee. To see Marth be low tier in Smash 4 must have been heartbreaking to many former Marth mains.

Oh man, so that's what happened in the Melee meta? That's unfortunate. Well, SSB4 is still a relatively young game, and it's possible that we'll be getting more patches soon. If people keep calling Roy crap, then maybe the balance team will notice and buff him considerably again? I mean I think part of the reason why Roy and all the other FE characters got buffed in the first place was because all of the top Japanese players were rating them so low. Even Ike was rated low, but he was still rated higher than all of the other FE characters.

How are we supposed to encourage diversity and develop a character's meta when we tell others, "Don't play X. Play Y because that character is 100x better"? I ask myself that question whenever I see people tell others to drop their main and play a higher tier character.

It seems like you have interest in developing Roy's meta and getting results, so I say go for it. Will you get to a point where you feel like you can't get anywhere with Roy? Maybe. Maybe not. You'll never know unless you invest a good amount of of time and energy into Roy. So yeah, especially with these buffs, Roy's worth developing. You can always co-main Cloud if you really want to play him as well.

And honestly, my local takes pride when uncommon characters make the power rankings. People love to compliment on the character diversity. So, I think there might be some people in your scene that would love to see your Roy take names, make upsets, and shoot straight up to the PR lol.

That's the annoying thing about the meta. Kinda wish that people felt less pressured to main low tiers. I mean, come on guys it's not like ZeRo goes to your locals or anything. Like I said though, we can't really convince people to not be pressured about maining certain characters. The only thing we can do is try to develop the meta of the character as much as we can. If people still think they're bad, then oh well. Can't win them all I suppose. The sad thing about Roy is that the damage has already been done; he's shown to be a bad FE lord and a bad character in Melee. People can't see him as anything else, and that's just how it is. =P

To be fair, the guy that gave me such advice was a really nice guy. We're becoming good friends. It was more of a suggestion if anything. He only said that I should drop Roy if I really feel like I can't get anywhere with him.

In my tournaments, I occasionally see low tier characters like Jigglypuff, but for the most part I see low-high to top tier characters which is probably going to make this results thing a little more difficult. A lot of high/top tiers have tools that can deal with Roy. It's probably going to be harder for me to get results because of that. Let's hope it's worth it. Or who knows? Maybe Roy may get another mean buff in 1.1.5, making him even more viable than he is now.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

Yep. Honestly, I've given up trying to convince that Roy was good long time ago. I pretty much have been in the "Roy isn't anything until he gets results" category. People are either calling him really good, or really bad; both are harming his potential because all these extremes do is convince people that Roy isn't worth using. Call him really good, and people will play him only to be unimpressed. Call him really bad, and then no one will touch him, because who wants to play a bad character? The thing that sucks about competitive play is that people always assume they're right, rather than admitting that they don't know everything about the character. This is the main reason why I just lurk on the competitive boards; I know next to nothing when it comes to whatever potential these characters have in Smash. Rather than just calling one character flat out terrible, I'd rather wait for results first unless if the character has been tested multiple tries OR if the character is Zelda, lol.

And about the Marth buffs; yeah people have been hyping up Marth waay more than Roy now, yet people still call Roy overhyped. People are convinced that Marth/Lucina are viable now, and whenever you bring up Roy's buffs they brush it off as if the buffs did nothing. Seriously. I see people talk about Marth/Lucina/Ike buffs everywhere I go, and I've yet to see any significant discussion on Roy's buffs. It's because Marth and Lucina are just more liked in general; Marth was one of the best characters in Melee. To see Marth be low tier in Smash 4 must have been heartbreaking to many former Marth mains.

Oh man, so that's what happened in the Melee meta? That's unfortunate. Well, SSB4 is still a relatively young game, and it's possible that we'll be getting more patches soon. If people keep calling Roy crap, then maybe the balance team will notice and buff him considerably again? I mean I think part of the reason why Roy and all the other FE characters got buffed in the first place was because all of the top Japanese players were rating them so low. Even Ike was rated low, but he was still rated higher than all of the other FE characters.


That's the annoying thing about the meta. Kinda wish that people felt less pressured to main low tiers. I mean, come on guys it's not like ZeRo goes to your locals or anything. Like I said though, we can't really convince people to not be pressured about maining certain characters. The only thing we can do is try to develop the meta of the character as much as we can. If people still think they're bad, then oh well. Can't win them all I suppose. The sad thing about Roy is that the damage has already been done; he's shown to be a bad FE lord and a bad character in Melee. People can't see him as anything else, and that's just how it is. =P

To be fair, the guy that gave me such advice was a really nice guy. We're becoming good friends. It was more of a suggestion if anything. He only said that I should drop Roy if I really feel like I can't get anywhere with him.

In my tournaments, I occasionally see low tier characters like Jigglypuff, but for the most part I see low-high to top tier characters which is probably going to make this results thing a little more difficult. A lot of high/top tiers have tools that can deal with Roy. It's probably going to be harder for me to get results because of that. Let's hope it's worth it. Or who knows? Maybe Roy may get another mean buff in 1.1.5, making him even more viable than he is now.

Hmmmmm, if you want help dealing with the high/top tiers, I've been playing a lot of matchups really well. Some I'm still garbage at and need to tweak but I can really help with ones like Mario, Sonic, Fox, ZSS, Falcon, Yoshi, Sheik, Ness, etc. I really need help with Pikachu and Rosalina. Yes they all have great tools but you have what it takes to consistently beat them in neutral and get more out of punishes, then keep stock leads. That's what matters. Roy's neutral game is really underestimated and people like to slap "bad neutral" as a buzzword deal onto things, especially swordsmen. Thing is that Ike/Roy/Cloud have great neutral games, they just have to play neutral differently than everyone.

We also don't have to main Roy necessarily if we end up switching mains or wanting to play a more tried and true character, we can keep him as something like a game 2/3 or skill gap side project if needed. If your opponent's much better/worse and Roy won't change W/L outcome much, it's not a bad idea to use just him in the set, and it's pretty safe to pull him if you're up a game since you may win and worst case scenario is getting counterpick advantage next game and throwing them off with Roy.

Not all games will be streamed, so tearing through pools with someone like Sheik and then using only Roy on a streamed set to showcase the character's tools and hopefully win is also a good idea.

 

[The Merc]

If anyone cares, I'm going to stick with Roy alongside Robin.

, , , , ,, and are all pretty bad.

Falcon? Really? I found him and Roy to play very similarly.

 

[StriderAaron360]

Here's something for you Roy mains!

Spoiler

 

[Lady Kuki]

Hmmmmm, if you want help dealing with the high/top tiers, I've been playing a lot of matchups really well. Some I'm still garbage at and need to tweak but I can really help with ones like Mario, Sonic, Fox, ZSS, Falcon, Yoshi, Sheik, Ness, etc. I really need help with Pikachu and Rosalina. Yes they all have great tools but you have what it takes to consistently beat them in neutral and get more out of punishes, then keep stock leads. That's what matters. Roy's neutral game is really underestimated and people like to slap "bad neutral" as a buzzword deal onto things, especially swordsmen. Thing is that Ike/Roy/Cloud have great neutral games, they just have to play neutral differently than everyone.

We also don't have to main Roy necessarily if we end up switching mains or wanting to play a more tried and true character, we can keep him as something like a game 2/3 or skill gap side project if needed. If your opponent's much better/worse and Roy won't change W/L outcome much, it's not a bad idea to use just him in the set, and it's pretty safe to pull him if you're up a game since you may win and worst case scenario is getting counterpick advantage next game and throwing them off with Roy.

Not all games will be streamed, so tearing through pools with someone like Sheik and then using only Roy on a streamed set to showcase the character's tools and hopefully win is also a good idea.

Ah, that's good then. I'll definitely be using Cloud as a backup; I hope he covers all, if not most of Roy's bad matchups. It's a shame; he, Villager and Ness are the only high-tier characters I enjoy using, and they don't even place that high. :T

Btw, love your new avatar, but that's just my Eliwood/FE7 bias showing. Carry on. Oh yeah and what do you think of Cloud? Saw him as your avatar for a while, yet I haven't seen him listed as your main. o.o

 

[~Chomp]

Hey guys.
So I'm a Green Roy main who's new to Smashboards (this is actually my first post. Scrub alert) , and I want to pitch in my two cents.
I would have to agree that Falcon and Roy play a bit similarly. Both have grab followups, kill power, and good edgeguarding, but both have a linear and unfortunately weak recovery.
I feel like the similarities end there. The way they approach is vastly different, with Roy short hop Nairing to approach and side-B'ing to read a spot dodge, but meanwhile, Falcon wants to Bair wall and grab straight up, instead of leading into one.
The Fox matchup isn't too bad for Roy, as Fox being the insanely fast falling character that he is, Roy can usually get him to 30-40% off of one grab, more with a sour Bair lock. Lasers can be annoying, however, and interrupt his neutral.
That's all I have for today. I hope to be not too much of a liability here and help develop this character! If people think Roy is bad because of a lack of results, we'll just be able to come to those results ourselves!
Yes, and teh ph1r3 is a good meme.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

Ah, that's good then. I'll definitely be using Cloud as a backup; I hope he covers all, if not most of Roy's bad matchups. It's a shame; he, Villager and Ness are the only high-tier characters I enjoy using, and they don't even place that high. :T

Btw, love your new avatar, but that's just my Eliwood/FE7 bias showing. Carry on. Oh yeah and what do you think of Cloud? Saw him as your avatar for a while, yet I haven't seen him listed as your main. o.o

I was incredibly overjoyed that the main character of one of the most influential games of my life made it into Smash, and that I was able to see the reveal live.
My girlfriend at the time (things with her didn't end well a few weeks ago ) was watching it with me and being able to share that moment with her was truly incredible. Seeing Cloud develop as a character through VII was one of my fondest memories with that game. I was about as excited for him as when the Roy Classic ending footage leak happened, when I finally believed he'd be in the game after the April leaks couldn't convince me.

I figured that, regardless of whether I'd main him or not bother with him outside of friendlies, I'd lab him until he wasn't as fun as he was initially. That took two whole weeks of solo play, while Corrin and Bayonetta didn't take too long for me to just switch back to my usual characters. I think I gave them about an hour before I just occasionally played one or the other in a friendly or two out of each 15-20, then decided I wouldn't really ever play them again.

After those two weeks in December? Cloud's a character I'd definitely main alongside Roy, and he's my most played non-Roy character in the last few months. I really like the new Marth and Ike too, this patch revived my flame a bit for the two. I usually have itches to alternate between the four and mess around with some others, but every time I think of all the random Smash group Facebook posts and YouTube comments and high-level player tier lists (especially JP ones) and Reddit monthly list discussions whenever Roy's brought up, it gives me the biggest itch to just play Roy for hours on end and improve. I want to make Finals or top 8 or top 16 or even top 32 at a massive tournament someday with him.

I'm pretty much solo Roy right now due to that pure drive, but I'd be Roy/Cloud and maybe some Ike/Marth if the urge to improve and dig this character out of results limbo wasn't so strong. Some stronger picks I've wanted to invest in are Fox and Mario. Fox has nice strings and a truly admirable neutral, and Mario's easy to learn. Who knows, my character count and choice could change at any point or never really be consistent, and I'm fine with that.

Hey guys.
So I'm a Green Roy main who's new to Smashboards (this is actually my first post. Scrub alert) , and I want to pitch in my two cents.
I would have to agree that Falcon and Roy play a bit similarly. Both have grab followups, kill power, and good edgeguarding, but both have a linear and unfortunately weak recovery.
I feel like the similarities end there. The way they approach is vastly different, with Roy short hop Nairing to approach and side-B'ing to read a spot dodge, but meanwhile, Falcon wants to Bair wall and grab straight up, instead of leading into one.
The Fox matchup isn't too bad for Roy, as Fox being the insanely fast falling character that he is, Roy can usually get him to 30-40% off of one grab, more with a sour Bair lock. Lasers can be annoying, however, and interrupt his neutral.
That's all I have for today. I hope to be not too much of a liability here and help develop this character! If people think Roy is bad because of a lack of results, we'll just be able to come to those results ourselves!
Yes, and teh ph1r3 is a good meme.

Welcome to the boards! I'm excited to see how things unfold for you, and to see you join us.

Yeah, Roy definitely has a strong punish game, especially on Fox. High damage combos due to Fox's fall speed, early kills due to Fox's light weight, and proper edgeguards of Fox's linear recovery (dtilt/Flare Blade/fair/nair are good) are definitely key to the matchup. You want to extend every hit as far as possible, it may sound redundant but your punishes on Fox are ridiculous. Roy has the tools to box out and box in Fox while keeping him above Roy, constantly keepign Fox in annoying positions.

I agree that Fox isn't too bad for Roy, I actually love the matchup as Roy and hated it when I was learning Fox. I'd hate approaching his sword, I'd hate playing around his sword after forcing approach, I'd hate it when I got in because he could smack me with some random bs just trying to do Fox stuff and suddenly I'd eat a bunch of percent or die, while my combos didn't extend as much and my confirms happened later with more difficulty than his kills, and... yeah. I had to play my heart out just to barely win that matchup as Fox.

I've been outplayed in Roy vs. Fox and still won as Roy, and facing even fundamentally questionable Roys was difficult for my Fox when I did fine in just about all other MU's, so I think Roy wins it. I used to struggle really hard with Fox a year ago and auto-lose to Fox, but now he's one of my best matchups.

 

[~Chomp]

Never mind, I have more.
My secondaries atm are Sheik, Falcon and Cloud (yay, common characters), but I'd be happy to pick up another lower tiered or underused character that I can sorta play (i.e Dedede, Falco...) if it helps MU knowledge.

Ness isn't as bad as the others, because if you get him offstage, it's over. Bair and fair's huge hitboxes along with the vulnerability PK Thunder leaves makes it a decently easy edgeguard.

Another thing about Fox is the same thing as Ness, the vulnerability from Firefox leaves him open for a Fair, Bair, or ballsy B-Reverse Neutral B.

Roy's edgeguarding is unfortunately slept on, but he can take care of characters with linear recovery with Bair, since the recovery mixups aren't TOO brain-crushing here.

Here's a general Roy edgeguarding guide for about half the roster.

Rosalina, both Pits, and Villager can be easily Baired repeatedly.(whenever I say this, I mean drop down from grabbing ledge, jump up and bair, then return to ledge)
If you read when an opponent will tether to stage as Lucas, you can Bair them. If they don't tether, hey, PK Thunder situation again.
Other tethers can be dealt with the same way, but recoveries from the opposing characters can be a bit more dangerous (i.e both Links)
Falcon and Ganondorf are just a "drop down, Bair, take stock" kind of scenario.
If you can read a Luigi, Fox, Falco or Ike side-B, you can Bair if they go for ledge, FSmash on stage if they go for stage (if you don't have time for that, jab works too, and gives nice positional advantage). In Luigi's case, you can run off of stage and dair, but watch out for a misfire. RNGeesus has screwed me over many a time.
Teleport recoveries (Sheik, Mewtwo, etc) should be dealt with by either grabbing ledge, then jumping off backwards, then Blazering back to ledge (watch out for timing, this takes practice. In Sheik and Zelda's case, be ready to DI or tech if the reappearance catches you). You can also Bair or Fair here, as long as you can time the 2-frame.
Marth and Lucina shouldn't be TOO hard.
Shulk can be tricky, watch out for the second hit of Up-B.
Megaman is basically free, night-night.
And Donkey Kong (haha expand dong am I funny now I'm so funny haha internet memes yay) can be subdued with well-spaced Bairs.

Whew. That's all from me for tonight. I'll cover up characters I missed if people want. If anyone has any tips to add to the ones I have already, please share! Also, sorry about making you read so much.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Here's a thing I posted in our 1.1.4 discussion thread.

Since they haven't updated Roy's aerial's frame advantage on shield in the docs, I went ahead and did the math myself. It was simple. All I did was add frames to the frame advantage numbers from the previous patch based on how many frames were shaved off of the landing lag in 1.1.4. So here it is:

Landing Lag (as a reminder):
Nair: 11 frames of lag (from 13)
Fair: 13 f (from 15)
Uair: 14 f (from 16)
Bair: 16 f (from 19)
Dair: 23 f (from 28)

Frame Advantage on Shield:
Nair 1 (sour/sweet): from -9/-8 to -7/-6
Nair 2 (sour/sweet): from -9/-7 to -7/-5
Fair (sour/sweet): from -9/-7 to -7/-5
Uair (sour/sweet): from -11/-9 to -9/-7
Bair (sour/sweet): from -12/-11 to -10/-9
Dair: from -18 to -13

Link to Roy pre-patch data in kurogane hammer (as of this moment): http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Roy
Link to Roy's pre-patch frame advantage data in the docs: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h5peQlvrlAc2g3kLTllpSkggN6MfpLfZIiBdGv6xOFk/htmlview?pli=1#

If I did anything stupid, let me know.

 

[Serew]

~Chomp Welcome on board! And good stuff on the information! we need all we can get and how could you, giving us information and making us read!!! and yeah i agree on Roy's edgeguarding being slept on. i barely ever see Roys go offstage to do it. i guess it's because most of them are scared of dying offstage cause of our not amazing recovery xD

Getting ness offstage to counter his recovery is also a good thing to do. This only works if he's not too close to the stage though. If you counter next to ness when pk thunder 2 hits you will slow him down and then kill him cause of that, if you counter later in the pk thunder 2 you counter him and kill him with the counter itself.

When edgeguarding DK you have to be a bit careful of them using their up b, if they time it correctly this could make it more difficult. You can also spike him if he uses it from far.

Also keep in mind that our ledgetrump options are pretty good too. Dair on ledge regrab, if they know about it they will most likely always go for stage. which gives us a free punish most of the time (be careful with some of the characters attacks) And ofc there's the classic trump to back air :D

And yeah on most of the not good matchups, they're mostly 45/55 IMO, nothing to really worry about

I personally have a big hate for the ness MU but i haven't played one in a long while so i can't really give me thoughts on it anymore xD

Fox i'd still say 45/55, we can combo him and kill early but he can also combo us alot and he still has the up smash that's really strong.

A matchup i found pretty difficult is Ryu. i don't play the matchup alot and won the matches against a Ryu lately but idk if it's good or anything. i feel like that one is also 45/55 or 40/60. cause of Ryu's combo's and uptilt infinite (i guess SDI can help out of that though) And don't forget uptilt to shoryuken Dx Focus attack can be a pain but can also be baited sometimes. it really depends on the Ryu's skill.

Anyways, there's another wall of text XD

 

[Croph]

Aaaaaa you finally went to those tournaments! I'm proud!!

Heh, I've been losing every set. Not that I'm discouraged, but I do need a lot more practice, especially against certain match-ups. The thing is, these tourneys aren't doing my anxiety any good. I need to learn how to get over it... music sorta helps. Maybe I'll bring gum next time. I'm running out of ideas tho.

Also, sorry about making you read so much.

Don't worry about it lol. It's great when we have discussions like this, so people posting walls of text is great to see. And welcome aboard to the boards, hopefully you won't get bored!

 

[EnGarde]

A matchup i found pretty difficult is Ryu. i don't play the matchup alot and won the matches against a Ryu lately but idk if it's good or anything. i feel like that one is also 45/55 or 40/60. cause of Ryu's combo's and uptilt infinite (i guess SDI can help out of that though) And don't forget uptilt to shoryuken Dx Focus attack can be a pain but can also be baited sometimes. it really depends on the Ryu's skill.

Anyways, there's another wall of text XD

I think SDI is the next frontier for exploration. I think we might be able to mitigate our combo food nature by focusing on learning to react with good DI.

 

[~Chomp]

Thanks for all the welcomes and puns.

~Chomp Welcome on board! And good stuff on the information! we need all we can get and how could you, giving us information and making us read!!! and yeah i agree on Roy's edgeguarding being slept on. i barely ever see Roys go offstage to do it. i guess it's because most of them are scared of dying offstage cause of our not amazing recovery xD

Getting ness offstage to counter his recovery is also a good thing to do. This only works if he's not too close to the stage though. If you counter next to ness when pk thunder 2 hits you will slow him down and then kill him cause of that, if you counter later in the pk thunder 2 you counter him and kill him with the counter itself.

When edgeguarding DK you have to be a bit careful of them using their up b, if they time it correctly this could make it more difficult. You can also spike him if he uses it from far.

Also keep in mind that our ledgetrump options are pretty good too. Dair on ledge regrab, if they know about it they will most likely always go for stage. which gives us a free punish most of the time (be careful with some of the characters attacks) And ofc there's the classic trump to back air :D

And yeah on most of the not good matchups, they're mostly 45/55 IMO, nothing to really worry about

I personally have a big hate for the ness MU but i haven't played one in a long while so i can't really give me thoughts on it anymore xD

Fox i'd still say 45/55, we can combo him and kill early but he can also combo us alot and he still has the up smash that's really strong.

A matchup i found pretty difficult is Ryu. i don't play the matchup alot and won the matches against a Ryu lately but idk if it's good or anything. i feel like that one is also 45/55 or 40/60. cause of Ryu's combo's and uptilt infinite (i guess SDI can help out of that though) And don't forget uptilt to shoryuken Dx Focus attack can be a pain but can also be baited sometimes. it really depends on the Ryu's skill.

Anyways, there's another wall of text XD

I would agree with everything you said about the edgeguard, but it seemed too obvious or too risky to add. I've had a Ness delay their PK Thunder 2 and destroy me.
I don't have enough experience in the Ryu MU tbh. He does get solid kill confirmes on us though, rip.
Fox can U-Tilt string us really hard, but DI is your friend there, at least. About the combos, Fox can only really DThrow into fair which we can avoid with proper DI. If I'm missing something, I'm very sorry. The Up-Smash I don't mind too much either, since it FORCES him to approach us and not have us resort to limited approach options. His dashdance mindgames aren't too bad, I find that setting up a wall of hitboxes works well (Jab-Fair-Nair-DTilt). His improved frame data helps for that too.
A trump (not the crappy presidential candidate) can do work against most characters, if you run off and immediately smash your joystick towards ledge, you can snap to ledge immediately, and follow up with a Bair, as you said. However, on characters with weak double-jumps where they're forced to go back to ledge, lacking the means to go to stage, you can Dair them once they grab ledge, having lost their I-Frames. I'll see who this works on, if anyone could help. I know it works on Ganondorf so far, and I'm pretty sure there are others.
Also, something I REALLY want to address.
Sour Bair locks, or resets, or however you call it. And a lock is a BIG punish from Roy. It connects with F-Throw after about 5% on most characters if they miss their tech. I haven't tested with high percents either, if someone would also help me with that, that would be appreciated.
When you lock your opponent, you can either FSmash, or something I call the "Chomp" (almost 99% sure I didn't come up with it, however). It's a hit 1 Nair as soon as they get up into a normal grab followup and capitalizing off the fact that people will mash an option when they hit the ground. Since they are locked, this mashing won't help them and they will usually DI poorly, leaving them open for juicy grab followups.
If anyone could help me test the aforementioned things, I would appreciate that. My Kik is Adilllpickle, since Kik is probably a better method of fast communication than here, and I don't want to spam down the boards. I/we will communicate the results when we finish. Oh yeah, I only have the 3DS version, in case people are wondering.
Walls of text continue!

 

[Serew]

Thanks for all the welcomes and puns.

I would agree with everything you said about the edgeguard, but it seemed too obvious or too risky to add. I've had a Ness delay their PK Thunder 2 and destroy me.
I don't have enough experience in the Ryu MU tbh. He does get solid kill confirmes on us though, rip.
Fox can U-Tilt string us really hard, but DI is your friend there, at least. About the combos, Fox can only really DThrow into fair which we can avoid with proper DI. If I'm missing something, I'm very sorry. The Up-Smash I don't mind too much either, since it FORCES him to approach us and not have us resort to limited approach options. His dashdance mindgames aren't too bad, I find that setting up a wall of hitboxes works well (Jab-Fair-Nair-DTilt). His improved frame data helps for that too.
A trump (not the crappy presidential candidate) can do work against most characters, if you run off and immediately smash your joystick towards ledge, you can snap to ledge immediately, and follow up with a Bair, as you said. However, on characters with weak double-jumps where they're forced to go back to ledge, lacking the means to go to stage, you can Dair them once they grab ledge, having lost their I-Frames. I'll see who this works on, if anyone could help. I know it works on Ganondorf so far, and I'm pretty sure there are others.
Also, something I REALLY want to address.
Sour Bair locks, or resets, or however you call it. And a lock is a BIG punish from Roy. It connects with F-Throw after about 5% on most characters if they miss their tech. I haven't tested with high percents either, if someone would also help me with that, that would be appreciated.
When you lock your opponent, you can either FSmash, or something I call the "Chomp" (almost 99% sure I didn't come up with it, however). It's a hit 1 Nair as soon as they get up into a normal grab followup and capitalizing off the fact that people will mash an option when they hit the ground. Since they are locked, this mashing won't help them and they will usually DI poorly, leaving them open for juicy grab followups.
If anyone could help me test the aforementioned things, I would appreciate that. My Kik is Adilllpickle, since Kik is probably a better method of fast communication than here, and I don't want to spam down the boards. I/we will communicate the results when we finish.
Walls of text continue!

Yep the bair lock is pretty well known i tend to go for other combo's cause i felt like there's easier options to do for damage. i should just try it though. Also for better communication, consider joining the Roy discord! I posted a link for there earlier. we have more roy mains there and it's pretty great :D And i'm also willing to help out testing what characters are forced to go back ot the ledge for the dair. there's also more i'd like to test so that would be great if you'd be able to help :D (also, you might want to check out my channel, it has a few informative video's... and taunt sliding still working on more though. )

I hope to see you in the discord!

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

Never mind, I have more.
My secondaries atm are Sheik, Falcon and Cloud (yay, common characters), but I'd be happy to pick up another lower tiered or underused character that I can sorta play (i.e Dedede, Falco...) if it helps MU knowledge.

Ness isn't as bad as the others, because if you get him offstage, it's over. Bair and fair's huge hitboxes along with the vulnerability PK Thunder leaves makes it a decently easy edgeguard.

Another thing about Fox is the same thing as Ness, the vulnerability from Firefox leaves him open for a Fair, Bair, or ballsy B-Reverse Neutral B.

Roy's edgeguarding is unfortunately slept on, but he can take care of characters with linear recovery with Bair, since the recovery mixups aren't TOO brain-crushing here.

Here's a general Roy edgeguarding guide for about half the roster.

Rosalina, both Pits, and Villager can be easily Baired repeatedly.(whenever I say this, I mean drop down from grabbing ledge, jump up and bair, then return to ledge)
If you read when an opponent will tether to stage as Lucas, you can Bair them. If they don't tether, hey, PK Thunder situation again.
Other tethers can be dealt with the same way, but recoveries from the opposing characters can be a bit more dangerous (i.e both Links)
Falcon and Ganondorf are just a "drop down, Bair, take stock" kind of scenario.
If you can read a Luigi, Fox, Falco or Ike side-B, you can Bair if they go for ledge, FSmash on stage if they go for stage (if you don't have time for that, jab works too, and gives nice positional advantage). In Luigi's case, you can run off of stage and dair, but watch out for a misfire. RNGeesus has screwed me over many a time.
Teleport recoveries (Sheik, Mewtwo, etc) should be dealt with by either grabbing ledge, then jumping off backwards, then Blazering back to ledge (watch out for timing, this takes practice. In Sheik and Zelda's case, be ready to DI or tech if the reappearance catches you). You can also Bair or Fair here, as long as you can time the 2-frame.
Marth and Lucina shouldn't be TOO hard.
Shulk can be tricky, watch out for the second hit of Up-B.
Megaman is basically free, night-night.
And Donkey Kong (haha expand dong am I funny now I'm so funny haha internet memes yay) can be subdued with well-spaced Bairs.

Whew. That's all from me for tonight. I'll cover up characters I missed if people want. If anyone has any tips to add to the ones I have already, please share! Also, sorry about making you read so much.

Nair is a really good edgeguard tool in general, too, since the hitboxes stay out to make dealing with tricky or timed stuff much easier and knock the opponent where you want them, plus the knockback's great.
It helps with 2 frame situations as well.
Offstage counter is really good against Ness and really screws him up, but it doesn't always work (he'll sometimes worm around it) and the little spark hitboxes can eat your second jump or make your counter not come out which is really annoying if you're too close. You also have to make sure he won't snap to the ledge while your counter's coming out. You have to space it properly and have to accept that he'll sometimes avoid it after hitting the counter, but it's a very valuable tool that can 0 to death him pretty easily compared to your other edgeguard tools if you get him offstage at the start of a stock.
Offstage counter isn't nearly as good versus Lucas, it doesn't have much damage or knockback compared to being a murder move against Ness.
Since the PK boys don't snap to the ledge during their double jump, I like to sometimes dtilt or fsmash at the ledge while they're rising so they're forced to either outright take the hit and get set up for an edgeguard, or they airdodge it and end up under the stage without their second jump which can be runoff baired or something similar.

You know what I said about the PK boys and their double jumps rising over the ledge? This might be viable against it, we should experiment:

Those are good edgeguard ideas, I'll try bair more since I tend to fair or nair all the time.

I think SDI is the next frontier for exploration. I think we might be able to mitigate our combo food nature by focusing on learning to react with good DI.

Oooooo, what ideas do you have on SDI? I'd be willing to work on and maximize it.

~Chomp Welcome on board! And good stuff on the information! we need all we can get and how could you, giving us information and making us read!!! and yeah i agree on Roy's edgeguarding being slept on. i barely ever see Roys go offstage to do it. i guess it's because most of them are scared of dying offstage cause of our not amazing recovery xD

Getting ness offstage to counter his recovery is also a good thing to do. This only works if he's not too close to the stage though. If you counter next to ness when pk thunder 2 hits you will slow him down and then kill him cause of that, if you counter later in the pk thunder 2 you counter him and kill him with the counter itself.

When edgeguarding DK you have to be a bit careful of them using their up b, if they time it correctly this could make it more difficult. You can also spike him if he uses it from far.

Also keep in mind that our ledgetrump options are pretty good too. Dair on ledge regrab, if they know about it they will most likely always go for stage. which gives us a free punish most of the time (be careful with some of the characters attacks) And ofc there's the classic trump to back air :D

And yeah on most of the not good matchups, they're mostly 45/55 IMO, nothing to really worry about

I personally have a big hate for the ness MU but i haven't played one in a long while so i can't really give me thoughts on it anymore xD

Fox i'd still say 45/55, we can combo him and kill early but he can also combo us alot and he still has the up smash that's really strong.

A matchup i found pretty difficult is Ryu. i don't play the matchup alot and won the matches against a Ryu lately but idk if it's good or anything. i feel like that one is also 45/55 or 40/60. cause of Ryu's combo's and uptilt infinite (i guess SDI can help out of that though) And don't forget uptilt to shoryuken Dx Focus attack can be a pain but can also be baited sometimes. it really depends on the Ryu's skill.

Anyways, there's another wall of text XD

Nair the hell out of Ryu. He can't use his focus for movement or the full focus, it cuts through utilt/dtilt attempts, it cuts through his projectiles while keeping constant hitboxes out, and he's huge combo food for nair with triple nair or two nairs into another aerial being at least 40 true damage. It also beats Ryu's side-b pretty handily. Keeping nair hitboxes out with Roy's excellent mobility is key to winning the Ryu MU. He can utilt or dtilt into shoryuken? You can nair 1 into kill moves as well, don't let his confirms discourage you. Part of the struggle with Ryu (I suffer from it, other Roys I know do) is that we get discouraged by his tools, part of the matchup is that specific mentality. If I get over it then I think I'll do better, I recently took a set 2-0 off a Ryu who double two-stocked me last time. I was incredibly salty all throughout that first set a while back, his general cockiness and how much he got away with Ryu really got to me but I brushed it off this time.

Some Ryus like to go for raw shoryukens (input) when you're at kill percent, you can't hit them or even grab them out of it during startup. I play one of these pretty often as one of my regular sparring partners, all I have to say is just don't be directly in front of them ever when you're at kill percents (90-100) and space around potential attempts. DI it well if you're hit. If they miss an attempt, it's a beefy punish opportunity. The one I play never gets discouraged or afraid to keep going for it, even near the top blastzone. He'll throw it out as much as he needs to, and he tries to cheese as hard as possible with Ryu. Because of him and the extremes in his playstyle, I never get hit by any of that weird stuff from other Ryus.

When he reactivates his Facebook, I should direct him to the Discord. He mains Roy/Ryu/Corrin and sorta has a Peach and Cloud if you need any of the matchups, he has a weird playstyle and practice with his Ryu should help anyone avoid getting hit by a lot of dumb stuff in general.

I should hit up the Discord today since my Wii U managed to connect this morning. I'm hoping to both learn and teach a lot of stuff, I'm sort of some mountain monk who plays wifi heavily ready to go out into the world.

 

[~Chomp]

Yep the bair lock is pretty well known i tend to go for other combo's cause i felt like there's easier options to do for damage. i should just try it though. Also for better communication, consider joining the Roy discord! I posted a link for there earlier. we have more roy mains there and it's pretty great :D And i'm also willing to help out testing what characters are forced to go back ot the ledge for the dair. there's also more i'd like to test so that would be great if you'd be able to help :D (also, you might want to check out my channel, it has a few informative video's... and taunt sliding still working on more though. )

I hope to see you in the discord!

Thanks for that. Does anyone have the Instant Invite for the Discord? EDIT: Never mind.
And my FC is 5344-1119-9928 if you want to test stuff.

 

[Serew]

I'm currently working on a "Roy in neutral" Video. after that i'll be making a "Roy edgeguarding options" Video :D
If anyone has more informative video suggestions, please let me know in my video thread ^^ the neutral one could possibly be made today. and the edgeguarding one is planned for tomorrow :D

Thanks for that. Does anyone have the Instant Invite for the Discord?
And my FC is 5344-1119-9928 if you want to test stuff.

https://discord.gg/0am7ORpgdo31BD1D


Also woops post spam

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

Thanks for that. Does anyone have the Instant Invite for the Discord? EDIT: Never mind.
And my FC is 5344-1119-9928 if you want to test stuff.

I can play 3DS in healthy doses, it just hurts my hands if I play often or for extended amounts of time.

Last night I was on 3DS to teach a buddy's girlfriend how to play Smash as someone completely new to it, we put a Lv3 CPU on my team vs. both of them and I'd sandbag vs. her or focus on the buddy who already plays to help teach her general concepts.

We did that for 3-4 hours, so I'll need a break from 3DS until some spot in my left index finger calms down, but I'll let you know when that pain passes. It'll be easier for me to remember if I see you around in the discord, or daily posts in here.

 

[EnGarde]

Oooooo, what ideas do you have on SDI? I'd be willing to work on and maximize it.

So, I can't find the vine >.o but there was a vine about a month ago of an Ike player that was able to SDI out of Ryu's utilt > shoryu kill confirm, even on the first hit of utilt (not someone repeatedly spamming utilt for a "lock"). The Ike was able to move significantly farther than expected with SDI than would be expected from basic DI. I'm thinking, if you can SDI out of Ryu's kill confirm, what else can we SDI out of?

With hold DI on Mario, DI down on dthrow and you can shield before the first/second utilt at percents lower than 7% (obvi I know good Marios will use uthrow, just going with this as an example). After 7%, straight hold DI no longer seems to work, and you get stuck in the utilts for like 20-30% damage. However, I've had it happen in matches where I slammed down on reaction when grabbed/utilt'd by Mario, and was able to shield at higher percents, even medium high percents (like, 30-40% iirc), something I'm kinda willing to attribute to SDI.

Also, I tested with a friend maybe 2 months ago on how to escape the utilts, we found that rotating between up and in (again, iirc) helped you escape faster than straight holding in a direction, but the amount of damage you took before you got out varied by a lot, which leads me to believe we were never able to actually get optimal timing on SDI on the utilts to escape most effectively.

idk, I'm just brainstorming, and this could turn out to be nothing, or not very feasible in real matches. But, if it's a bit like strict teching, maybe we can learn SDI timing on certain annoying moves to avoid death/combo situations? Like, Ryu's and Mario's utilts? That's what I'm thinking at least lol.

 

[Tahu Mata]

It's been a while since I've been here, but I'm back in action on the Roy boards.

 

[EnGarde]

It's been a while since I've been here, but I'm back in action on the Roy boards.

Welcome! :D Together we ride!

 

[Tahu Mata]

Welcome! :D Together we ride!

More Fire Emblem music is never a bad thing.

So to input my opinion, I think the landing lag decrease has really helped Roy out. He can rushdown more effectively now.

 

[~Chomp]

Roy Edgeguarding guide, part two!

Diddy-Both of his recoveries can be punished. A Bair for both should suffice.
Koopa Kids-You should be able to Bair them out of the Side-B and gimp them off of the up-b. Watch out for a potential hammer kamikaze kill.
Mario and Luigi-Hard to punish. Just go deep offstage but save a jump, try to push them too far for them to punish. Mario is much harder than Luigi.
Both Links can have their tether read or space Bairs out of up-B.
Doc-Same as Mario. Bair is bigger than Cyclone so Bair is nice, as usual. Up-B HURTS, however, so only go in his face once he's too far away from stage to come back with up-B, so you trap him. Either he cyclones and he dies, or he up-B's and he dies.
Wario-If you can read when he jumps off of his bike, you should be alright.
Peach-Vulnerable with parasol, watch out for her aerials as she floats. Just Bair as soon as she finishes an attack or Bair the parasol.
Ryu-You should be able to Bair the Tatsu. Watch out for his Shoryu, though. It's fast and will deny everything you do. Don't bother guarding it, go for a 2-frame the same way I suggest to deal with teleport recoveries (up a bit higher on the board).
Yoshi-Only a limited amount of armor. If you knock him offstage and take his jump. You can try to avoid the eggs and Bair him. Very hard, however.
Wii Fit-Bair. Just Bair.
Little Mac-Any self-worthy player should be able to do this. If he Up-B's to ledge, down tilt since he doesn't snap to ledge immediately. Fair or Bair anything else.
Pac/Olimar/Rob-Easy enough. Watch out to not get caught by Pac's side-B. If you knock him far enough and he uses trampoline, jump on the trampoline when it turns yellow. The jump will let you get back to stage and Pac will die in the most hilarious way possible.
ZSS/Ike-Watch out for these two. You can punish Ike's Side-B and ZSS's tether (explained above) but watch out for anything else.
Samus-If you read her tether, boom. If she doesn't tether but instead up-B's, you should still be fine with a well-spaced Bair or Nair.
Greninja/Pikachu-Punish side-B's if you can. Up-B shouldn't be too hard on Greninja and a bit hard with Pika. Don't mess up with Pika, he can edgeguard and gimp you hard.
Kirby characters-All tricky. Dedede is probably the easiest. Punish Meta Knight's attempts at side-B'ing or down-B'ing to stage. Do what you can with fair. It's recommended to start on stage here, instead of starting on ledge (recommended for all others).
Puff-Disgusting. Read an airdodge: it's all you can do.
Bowser/Zard-Watch out for Zard's armor. Punish Zard's side-B with a counter. Bowser's Up-B is similar to Zard's but without armor, so go ahead.
G&W: Easy enough. Drop down and Bair as he rises.
Duck Hunt-FREE KILL BOYS
Robin-Elwind 1 spikes, but it's only a hitbox below him. Stay above him and you should do fine.
Lucario-Bair him repeatedly. It's hard for him to snap to ledge, so abuse that.
Sonic-You should be able to Bair him while he's still in the "jumping off of spring" animation.
Corrin is the usual, just Bair.
With Bayonetta, you want to distance yourself to the side a bit and Bair if you read an Up-B, if you read a side-B, go even farther to the side.
And I hope I didn't miss anybody.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

So, I can't find the vine >.o but there was a vine about a month ago of an Ike player that was able to SDI out of Ryu's utilt > shoryu kill confirm, even on the first hit of utilt (not someone repeatedly spamming utilt for a "lock"). The Ike was able to move significantly farther than expected with SDI than would be expected from basic DI. I'm thinking, if you can SDI out of Ryu's kill confirm, what else can we SDI out of?

With hold DI on Mario, DI down on dthrow and you can shield before the first/second utilt at percents lower than 7% (obvi I know good Marios will use uthrow, just going with this as an example). After 7%, straight hold DI no longer seems to work, and you get stuck in the utilts for like 20-30% damage. However, I've had it happen in matches where I slammed down on reaction when grabbed/utilt'd by Mario, and was able to shield at higher percents, even medium high percents (like, 30-40% iirc), something I'm kinda willing to attribute to SDI.

Also, I tested with a friend maybe 2 months ago on how to escape the utilts, we found that rotating between up and in (again, iirc) helped you escape faster than straight holding in a direction, but the amount of damage you took before you got out varied by a lot, which leads me to believe we were never able to actually get optimal timing on SDI on the utilts to escape most effectively.

idk, I'm just brainstorming, and this could turn out to be nothing, or not very feasible in real matches. But, if it's a bit like strict teching, maybe we can learn SDI timing on certain annoying moves to avoid death/combo situations? Like, Ryu's and Mario's utilts? That's what I'm thinking at least lol.

Ah, thank you! I'll ask around for that vine, then. I'll also ask a few friends to play Mario so I can test out different types of DI vs. dthrow and uthrow, I need more of that matchup anyways.

The Ryu I play uses utilt/dtilt confirms, but he doesn't go for the utilt lock for some reason. I'll ask why when he's back.

(old footage of me in the MU, there's definitely some things I can work on)

It's been a while since I've been here, but I'm back in action on the Roy boards.

Welcome back! I've been gone for a while too, I came back yesterday.

By the way, I listened to all the Bionicle music out there for upload purposes. The stuff from Mask of Light truly is beautiful, I also like what I got from the other movies, and a bit from the games. I plan on using FE6 orchestrated and FE10 music in my next upload, but I may use Bionicle music for a Cloud/Ike vs. Samus/Ike exhibition deal and some other stuff. Then I'll continue to listen through suggestions and see what I like.

More Fire Emblem music is never a bad thing.

So to input my opinion, I think the landing lag decrease has really helped Roy out. He can rushdown more effectively now.

11 frame landing lag on nair is unbelievable. He can approach with more fair angles, bair is more viable, dair and uair are less committal which is really important. Jab/dtilt/grab/retreat after landing are now more viable and much more important.

Roy Edgeguarding guide, part two!

Diddy-Both of his recoveries can be punished. A Bair for both should suffice.
Koopa Kids-You should be able to Bair them out of the Side-B and gimp them off of the up-b. Watch out for a potential hammer kamikaze kill.
Mario and Luigi-Hard to punish. Just go deep offstage but save a jump, try to push them too far for them to punish. Mario is much harder than Luigi.
Wario-If you can read when he jumps off of his bike, you should be alright.
Peach-Vulnerable with parasol, watch out for her aerials as she floats. Just Bair as soon as she finishes an attack or Bair the parasol.
Ryu-You should be able to Bair the Tatsu. Watch out for his Shoryu, though. It's fast and will deny everything you do. Don't bother guarding it, go for a 2-frame the same way I suggest to deal with teleport recoveries (up a bit higher on the board).
Yoshi-Only a limited amount of armor. If you knock him offstage and take his jump. You can try to avoid the eggs and Bair him. Very hard, however.
Wii Fit-Bair. Just Bair.
Little Mac-Any self-worthy player should be able to do this. If he Up-B's to ledge, down tilt since he doesn't snap to ledge immediately. Fair or Bair anything else.
Pac/Olimar/Rob-Easy enough. Watch out to not get caught by Pac's side-B. If you knock him far enough and he uses trampoline, jump on the trampoline when it turns yellow. The jump will let you get back to stage and Pac will die in the most hilarious way possible.
ZSS/Ike-Watch out for these two. You can punish Ike's Side-B and ZSS's tether (explained above) but watch out for anything else.
Samus-If you read her tether, boom. If she doesn't tether but instead up-B's, you should still be fine with a well-spaced Bair or Nair.
Greninja/Pikachu-Punish side-B's if you can. Up-B shouldn't be too hard on Greninja and a bit hard with Pika. Don't mess up with Pika, he can edgeguard and gimp you hard.
Kirby characters-All tricky. Dedede is probably the easiest. Punish Meta Knight's attempts at side-B'ing or down-B'ing to stage. Do what you can with fair. It's recommended to start on stage here, instead of starting on ledge (recommended for all others).
Puff-Disgusting. Read an airdodge: it's all you can do.
Bowser/Zard-Watch out for Zard's armor. Punish Zard's side-B with a counter. Bowser's Up-B is similar to Zard's but without armor, so go ahead.
G&W: Easy enough. Drop down and Bair as he rises.
Duck Hunt-FREE KILL BOYS
Robin-Elwind 1 spikes, but it's only a hitbox below him. Stay above him and you should do fine.
Lucario-Bair him repeatedly. It's hard for him to snap to ledge, so abuse that.
And I hope I didn't miss anybody.

Good stuff on jump saving. I'd advise dtilt/dash attack at the ledge for Yoshi, especially vs. eggs, and sometimes for Lucario. Nair beats Ike's Quick Draw pretty handily a lot of the time, I have some examples in an upcoming upload which is 10 matches of just Roy vs. Ike.

Dash attack at the ledge is underrated coverage, and I forgot to mention earlier that it's REALLY good against Ness. Experiment with it.

 

[Croph]

But, if it's a bit like strict teching, maybe we can learn SDI timing on certain annoying moves to avoid death/combo situations? Like, Ryu's and Mario's utilts? That's what I'm thinking at least lol.

We're gonna have to learn how to SDI Bayo shenanigans at the very least.

EDIT: Is this the same Ike player you were mentioning before?

 

[The Merc]

Forgot to say, but hello ~Chomp ! Thanks for the edge guarding tips. I will definitely try to apply them when ever I can. Though it can be hard to practise against cpu's since, you know, they 1 frame read you.

 

[meticulousboy]

~Chomp

Nice. Now I know what advice to give to someone playing Roy at my college whenever I play Peach and am offstage. Granted we normally do FFAs, but that can still help them win.

 

[Schnizzle Fits]

I fight a Doc main as Roy and my only goal with that MU is forcing Doc to off stage tornado (like anyone else with that MU). If the Doc does tornado just recognize the end time of it and punish with bair. If your timing isn't the best you can still trade with his Up b with bair. Offstage Dr./Mario only has bair that can reach you (Or cape but Doc cannot do that) and that should be a non-issue if their trying to recover. In the Doc/Mario MU I'd do more fairs/ftilts

Nice. Now I know what advice to give to someone playing Roy at my college whenever I play Peach and am offstage. Granted we normally do FFAs, but that can still help them win.

I main Peach and outright as Roy I would consider not trying to edgegaurd her as offstage Roy is a read and/or commitment and all Peach has to do is float away for half a second and Roy has to retreat. Her fair outranges anything Roy does and getting around her up B would be a hassle as .

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

After seeing the potentially coming Brawl documentary on the front page and thinking back to my 2008-2014 or so days, I thought for a bit on it.
The spoiler below is a bit lengthy, it's a few sentiments on those times and why I'd like to see it happen. Don't feel pressured to read it if you're not interested in that sort of thing.

Spoiler

Brawl is a game near and dear to my heart, and it's part of how I got into competitive play. I would spend entire summer days posting on forums and exchanging friend codes to play a lot of people, it helped me become closer to a lot of friends, and countless hours modding the game and looking at the most ridiculous stuff on YouTube was really a trip.

Project M and Brawl Minus were great things that branched from Brawl which also gave me many stories of their own.
I was disheartened in early 2014 with the servers disbanding, and I had to move on from the game without a scene near me.

The Melee documentary is something I love to revisit a few times a year, and while Brawl wasn't the most fun or competitive game to a lot of people, it still had a very interesting scene and a lot of stories behind it, which is why I believe it'd make a great documentary I'd love to see put into action and a great successor to The Smash Brothers.

I loved so much about The Smash Brothers, and anything that follows in its footsteps and can inform and entertain in a similar way deserves support.
Outside of Brawl, this is an opportunity to cover three more years of Smash's history overall, and Smash history from a new perspective.
False is working on it, so I can trust it to be a quality deal.

I plan to back $25 for that free copy once I'm paid this Friday, and I'm spreading the word around a bit in hopes that everything works out.

Link:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1098411010/smash-3-super-smash-bros-brawl-wii-u-documentary

 

[GoldenMapleLeaf]

So I don't think I've posted on the Roy social before (been hanging out on the Corrin boards mostly) but I gotta say, I agree a lot with you guys have to say. I should try and look harder for some locals, just settled in Kansas a while ago, if just to get some word on Roy out. Always hearing about how he gets no rep has started to make me feel guilty for being such an online warrior. Soon, hopefully.

As for his buffs, I'm super happy about them, especially dair. Not having commit too hard during my aerials feels really good.