Roy Impressions Thread

[IWinToLose]

Roy definitely loses a lot of killing power if the opponent plays safe. Roy needs an FSmash to end things early (as early as 36% from my experience) or an Up Smash around 100%. Up B can only be hit confirmed from NAir I believe. However, NAir is very unsafe on landing which is when you would use it for Up B.

In all reality, Roy has no safe kill options besides up throw around 170% and perhaps UpTilt and FTilt in the right situations around 120%. Roy has a decent off stage presence but is likely to have it backfire against characters like Shiek. Also, Shiek is such an important character to the meta that a character's placement on the tier list is directly dependent on how said character performs against her.

In a sense, he's like Mii Brawler. Once you get used to DI'ing Roy's throws and teching, he won't be landing that FSmash to kill you really early. Particularly, characters like Shiek who can cross up characters easily while landing with multiple options (BF, B reverse in the air, Up B, DI), Roy won't be able to land that FSmash on landing characters, one of the safest times to go for an FSmash. This problem is especially apparent given Roy's atrocious turning speed (from running) and his mediocre start up walking acceleration.

 

[Beach]

I see him being top 20 and at best top 15, he isn't a bad character by any means but once people learn to effectively play against Roy he won't seem as good. We can't rely on yolo Fsmashes to kill either as higher end players will punish it every time, and not to mention I see Roy struggling against Sheik which becomes a large issue.

No matter what though I'll enjoy playing him!

 

[bound_for_earth]

He will struggle horribly against Shiek, Luigi, Pikachu, and even Villager. I think he will struggle against Sonic and even Yoshi.

Floaty characters with fast and safe combo breakers (like Yoshi's/Luigi NAir) do very well against Roy's throw game as their NAir's force a mixup on Roy where Roy takes damage after Roy lands a throw. Let's not even mention the safe projectiles these two characters have.

I'd put him at the bottom of high tier (after Sonic) or at the top of mid tier.

i havent lost to villager as roy yet

 

[HFlash]

Roy is easily top 15-20 and although he has crazy potential, and amazing combo ability, he feels limited in the same ways as Falcon; lack of safe approach, and plenty of bad MU's. A top tier character almost by definition, should do well vs 80% plus vs the entire case, but this is simply not the case for roy. From the little MU experience people have using Roy, there seems to be a consensus that he does bad vs people who have an ability to keep him away (i.e TL, villager, shiek, etc.). Appropriate tier lists take months and collaborative effort. If you like Roy, play him, but please don't play him just because you think he is a "top tier" character. I personally like him because he feels like Marth should've felt like when compared to his Melee/brawl iterations albeit, this Roy has no safe approaches, and shorter range.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

Top B-Tier > Low C-Tier.

He's great but not as good as the top 10

At least for now. He's not fully discovered yet.

 

[brainsh0ck]

Wow, why is he already top 1 on the eventhubs tier list? Is that even a reliable list at all?

 

[Chiroz]

Wow, why is he already top 1 on the eventhubs tier list? Is that even a reliable list at all?

Not even remotely reliable. Like not by a million miles.

 

[ZeroJanitor]

It's reliably hilarious

 

[PapaJ]

Well, Roy has Side B which is amazing to use on shielding opponents because you can either stop or continue the attacks. This can make the move safe, as the opponent will keep his shield up in fear of the other attacks or he can keep attacking and the opponent drops his shield.

Neutral B is a decent fake out move. Similar to Ganons Usmash you can use it and, almost, immediately attack out of it making it good for baiting reactions.

UpB is a pretty amazing OoS punish as it has super armor frames allowing you to punish the opponent, and gain stage control. However as a recovery move it is probably one of the worse ones.

Counter is pretty good for forcing your opponent to respect you in the air as Roys counter has some decent KB on it. A smart roy will now when and when not to use this move making you, somewhat, safe in the air.

Because Roy's sweetspot is the base of his sword you don't need to space like Marth. The opponent will, for the most part, want to to come to you. This gives you a great advantage over marth who needs to be certain distance away.

His tilts are all pretty good. Ftilt KO's, Dtilt space, Utilt is a decent combo move.

His smashes are probably the best aspect. They can KO early and the damage is pretty great, if sweetspotted. Which isn't too hard since most enemies will be right in front of you.

Overall Roy is gonna have the C.Falcon problem where he can deal damage well, KO pretty reliably, and deal damage. But his recovery is going to hamper him. With Falcon, at least if he grabs you he can re-use up B but with Roy all he can do is use B once and that's it. He has no other method of recovery like marth and due to his fast fall weight counter in the air can be risky. I would place him around 15-25th on the tier list.

Although this is early speculation we will need to see if anyone at CEO shows up and puts Roy on the map. At the least he's definitely viable.

 

[Trunks159]

Because Roy's sweetspot is the base of his sword you don't need to space like Marth. The opponent will, for the most part, want to to come to you. This gives you a great advantage over marth who needs to be certain distance away.

His tilts are all pretty good. Ftilt KO's, Dtilt space, Utilt is a decent combo move.

His smashes are probably the best aspect. They can KO early and the damage is pretty great, if sweetspotted. Which isn't too hard since most enemies will be right in front of you.

Overall Roy is gonna have the C.Falcon problem where he can deal damage well, KO pretty reliably, and deal damage. But his recovery is going to hamper him. With Falcon, at least if he grabs you he can re-use up B but with Roy all he can do is use B once and that's it. He has no other method of recovery like marth and due to his fast fall weight counter in the air can be risky. I would place him around 15-25th on the tier list.

Although this is early speculation we will need to see if anyone at CEO shows up and puts Roy on the map. At the least he's definitely viable.

Why would anyone want to approach Roy? There's no reason to since he doesn't have a projectile and his actual approach options are pretty limited.

 

[PapaJ]

Why would anyone want to approach Roy? There's no reason to since he doesn't have a projectile and his actual approach options are pretty limited.

Because most other characters have a weak or easily by-passable projectile. Roy can just PS and force an approach. Characters like Mario get their KO's and damage from close range combat meaning eventually they need to get close. This is in stark contrast to Marth who needs the opponent to be at a certain distance to get the most of his attacks.

 

[Trunks159]

Because most other characters have a weak or easily by-passable projectile. Roy can just PS and force an approach. Characters like Mario get their KO's and damage from close range combat meaning eventually they need to get close. This is in stark contrast to Marth who needs the opponent to be at a certain distance to get the most of his attacks.

They don't need to get close, they need to get you close. If I'm just throwing needles at you over and over again, you must come to me to deal damage. Problem is, when Roy does come to me, his options are very limited, and pretty much anything he does can be punished. Marth can go up and fair your shield and stay safe (because of his range/hitstun/fall speed), the same can't be said for Roy.

 

[PapaJ]

They don't need to get close, they need to get you close. If I'm just throwing needles at you over and over again, you must come to me to deal damage. Problem is, when Roy does come to me, his options are very limited, and pretty much anything he does can be punished. Marth can go up and fair your shield and stay safe (because of his range/hitstun/fall speed), the same can't be said for Roy.

"If im throwing needles at you..." Thats awesome you mention one charcter with, arguably, the best projectile. That's again one MU. Also Roy can still Fair and Nair you, his Nair is better then marths while his Fair isn't as great. Keep in mind im talking about most of the cast, who don't have godlike projectiles like shiek.

 

[Emblem Lord]

People should not be comparing Marth and Roys tools in match-ups other then when they are fighting each other.. Their goals are completely different. Roy does different things with his aerials then Marth does. It's not as simple as saying which set of moves is straight up better or worse when comparing match-ups.

 

[Trunks159]

"If im throwing needles at you..." Thats awesome you mention one charcter with, arguably, the best projectile. That's again one MU. Also Roy can still Fair and Nair you, his Nair is better then marths while his Fair isn't as great. Keep in mind im talking about most of the cast, who don't have godlike projectiles like shiek.

Luigi? Villager, Megaman, Rosalina, Zero Suit, Pikachu, basically anyone with a projectile that isn't useless (Falco, Samus, Palutena) doesn't have to approach.

 

[IWinToLose]

"If im throwing needles at you..." Thats awesome you mention one charcter with, arguably, the best projectile. That's again one MU. Also Roy can still Fair and Nair you, his Nair is better then marths while his Fair isn't as great. Keep in mind im talking about most of the cast, who don't have godlike projectiles like shiek.

Even just 1 horrible match up vs Shiek will ruin Roy's competitive viability due to Shiek's ubiquitous presence in every major tournament.

 

[PapaJ]

People should not be comparing Marth and Roys tools in match-ups other then when they are fighting each other.. Their goals are completely different. Roy does different things with his aerials then Marth does. It's not as simple as saying which set of moves is straight up better or worse when comparing match-ups.

I mean...in this case it is if only for the fact that Roy's sweetspot is at the base and Marth's at the tip. That means Marth needs to know exactly how far he is to land the moves at their strongest. This also means an opponent that is always in marths face is going to get hit with more sourspots at that range. Whereas Roy would get more sweetspots at that range. So yeah their goals are different because of their sweetspots more then their movesets. Not to mention

Even just 1 horrible match up vs Shiek will ruin Roy's competitive viability due to Shiek's ubiquitous presence in every major tournament.

Yeah, true. Shieks presence is a real blight on other characters tournament viability. Until they nerf her or do something. That aside Roy's smash sweetspot tends to KO reliably ~90%. His issue is how he can get in and get the damage up. Side-B is good for getting in some solid damage if they don't shield the hits or if they do you can try and anticipate what they will do, Drop shield or try to punish. Up-B only does 9% but still a good OoS as well as his Usmash, decent Horizontal hitbox. Neutral B, depending on the character, might be a good way to bait reactions and punish accordingly but that's more of a metagame thing like if you're fighting a defensive or aggressive player.

I know Side-B can be used to do some massive shield damage. so after landing Side-B if you keep the pressure on you might be able to rack up more damage, as the opponent will fear their shield being broken especially Roy can OHKO at any percent with neutral B. The fact Roy's recovery isn't great means he needs to keep his midair jump as long as he can if he loses that he's pretty much dead. It seems he shares quite a few similarities to Falcon. Honestly when it comes to MU like these the metagame doesn't tend to develop for a while, since the character is new but we know Smash 4 I'd give it a couple of months to mature.

 

[Fenrir VII]

I feel like you guys are a bit quick to handily give the matchup to Sheik...

Idk I think Roy can hang with her... It might be her favor (too early to tell imo), but I definitely don't see it as a landslide

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

They don't need to get close, they need to get you close. If I'm just throwing needles at you over and over again, you must come to me to deal damage. Problem is, when Roy does come to me, his options are very limited, and pretty much anything he does can be punished. Marth can go up and fair your shield and stay safe (because of his range/hitstun/fall speed), the same can't be said for Roy.

One thing I've been doing with Roy is F-air > double jump backwards. Short hop > F-air has a slight amount of time that allows you to double jump right after F-air. It seems to be working fairly well to get away from punishes on shield.

 

[Bobert]

High Mid maybe. Still too early to tell. The high tiers will give him trouble probably. To me, he feels worse than Falcon. I can see Megaman and Villager giving him trouble.

 

[Chiroz]

One thing I've been doing with Roy is F-air > double jump backwards. Short hop > F-air has a slight amount of time that allows you to double jump right after F-air. It seems to be working fairly well to get away from punishes on shield.

I think this will be staple of good Roy play once his meta evolves. If you space the F-Air correctly you can double jump, DED, Up-B or Neutral-B.

While this doesn't seem like much you have enough options for just about any response from your opponent which makes F-Air relatively safe on block while still giving you the option to combo out of it or apply pressure if you notice your opponent messes up.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

I think this will be staple of good Roy play once his meta evolves. If you space the F-Air correctly you can double jump, DED, Up-B or Neutral-B.

While this doesn't seem like much you have enough options for just about any response from your opponent which makes F-Air relatively safe on block while still giving you the option to combo out of it or apply pressure if you notice your opponent messes up.

Exactly, I'm not sure if too many people have realized the utility of that nice extra time In between. I've been testing it out and it's proving very difficult for my opponent to punish me after I double jump. In fact there's been times where I've tricked a friendly into dashing forward to try to punish my backwards jump but I jumped forward instead And ruined his momentum. That was actually against a shiek too.

So his F-air mayyyy actually be pretty safe. If it is, it will allow for some pretty safe pressure on the opponent. Not that I blame people for not seeing that yet. Roy's too young still. Who knows, the double jump could be just as well unsafe but it's not seeming that way.

 

[Trunks159]

One thing I've been doing with Roy is F-air > double jump backwards. Short hop > F-air has a slight amount of time that allows you to double jump right after F-air. It seems to be working fairly well to get away from punishes on shield.

Try Fair - upb too , it punishes people who love to shield grab. (also combos for 24% @ low %).

 

[IWinToLose]

Exactly, I'm not sure if too many people have realized the utility of that nice extra time In between. I've been testing it out and it's proving very difficult for my opponent to punish me after I double jump. In fact there's been times where I've tricked a friendly into dashing forward to try to punish my backwards jump but I jumped forward instead And ruined his momentum. That was actually against a shiek too.

So his F-air mayyyy actually be pretty safe. If it is, it will allow for some pretty safe pressure on the opponent. Not that I blame people for not seeing that yet. Roy's too young still. Who knows, the double jump could be just as well unsafe but it's not seeming that way.

I haven't played any good Shiek players lately but there's a chance that Shiek can punish with Oos FAir depending on spacing. Also, good players will learn this mix up after they get hit by it once .

 

[Chiroz]

I haven't played any good Shiek players lately but there's a chance that Shiek can punish with Oos FAir depending on spacing. Also, good players will learn this mix up after they get hit by it once .

The question isn't whether they will learn it, it's whether it's punisheable.

I doubt any grounded option can punish it, maybe OoS Aerial/Up-B could, but you would have to have a char with a quick aerial/up-B that has Roy's F-Air range. I mean it's something we should at the very least test out and see just how safe/unsafe this option is.



Also Roy has options to deal with his opponents reactions. You can probable DED a Sheik that tries to go for a OoS aerial.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

Yes, it definitely needs some attention. Something like that could become very crucial to his meta if it turns out to be a safe move.

 

[IWinToLose]

FAir's safety is going to be critical for Roy's metagame IMO. Someone should test this ! However, even if it is safe, Roy's options after his 2nd jump definitely put him at a disadvantage against most chars...

 

[Trunks159]

FAir's safety is going to be critical for Roy's metagame IMO. Someone should test this ! However, even if it is safe, Roy's options after his 2nd jump definitely put him at a disadvantage against most chars...

For sure.

 

[FMHappy]

What options does Roy have when it comes to covering get up options?(roll to stage,standard getup)

 

[hakaithesamurai]

Up smash can cover a jump or a standard getup

 

[SafCar]

We can get the ledge trump and force them to regrab the ledge. This makes them vulnerable to a Flare Blade if we jump up from the ledge and reverse B.

 

[DunnoBro]

Pivot fsmash to face away from ledge: Covers get-up and roll (will likely weak hit roll)
Running Upsmash: Ledge get-up and Jump
Downsmash: Depending on positioning and timing, gets the get-up, roll, and a ledge drop/lack of invincibility. (It generally isn't too rewarding and is pretty risky though)

Unless I'm going for a kill or am still gauging their get-up options, I generally full hop fast fall nair as it catches ledge jumps, standard get-up, and if they do nothing I'm repositioned.

 

[Fogs]

What. Young Ganon is a thing? I don't think Young Ganon is a thing, guys.
(And I'm even more doubtful that Ganondorf was even remotely thought of during Roy's development, hahahaha)
I'm not trying to say that it's a bad thing that you compare Roy to what you think could be a younger version of Ganondorf, just... don't expect a Young Ganondorf as a Roy alt, ok? hahahaha

 

[bound_for_earth]

I am maining Roy now, but when i got the game i mained link,ness,marth and duckhunt. I never got cheered for as any of these characters but as roy every other game i hear "Roys our boy!" even of i dont perform well. Do you experience this.

 

[sparkaura]

Usually happens for me when Im around mid to high percents, my opponent is too, and I land an Up-B. So, I hear it a lot lol

 

[bound_for_earth]

i know :3

Usually happens for me when Im around mid to high percents, my opponent is too, and I land an Up-B. So, I hear it a lot lol