Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[Sonsa]

He's the reason why they were discovered.

Oh...well that's neat but they kinda used Mewtwo to show it off first...but I think Mewtwo would be unlockable too so...ahhh whatever, I'd be happy to see anyone at this point! ...though Jiggs might be a little underwhelming...

 

[Morbi]

So um why would sakurai reveal toon link during a release, yet when the biggest pokemon game comes out he decides not to reveal a character?

Why is that? are all the pokemon models for smash 4 not finished yet or something?

Jigglypuff probably takes like 3 hours to program. So we know he is just lazy! (Just joking)

In all seriousness, I think it has to do with the premise that Pokemon doesn't really need any cross-promotion. However, it would still be wise regardless. I honestly think it is just Sakurai being unpredictable to be unpredictable. We WILL get a Pokemon reveal this month. He is probably just waiting to surprise us.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Waiting for Morbid's post about that.

 

[Sonsa]

So um why would sakurai reveal toon link during a release, yet when the biggest pokemon game comes out he decides not to reveal a character?

Why is that? are all the pokemon models for smash 4 not finished yet or something?

Well I'm speculating it's a newcomer so he's waiting for the perfect time to show them off with artwork, video, and all and get all the attention and yadda yadda. I would have thought that time to be Friday but I guess he's got something else planned. Or maybe all the other Pokemon characters are secrets and unlockables in this one! ...but he coulda at least ended the week with some Pikachu picture and said "congrats to X & Y" or SOMETHING. But nope. The X & Y celebration is just "gee whiz, wii fit trainer sleeps sometimes, how about that?" ugh... No, he wouldve said something if there was nothing planned I believe. Yeah, he's waiting for the right time to surprise us. Guess Friday was just too predictable and as we shouldve learned by now Sakurai HAAATES being predictable.

 

[Johnknight1]

I hope Sakurai is enjoying his day off. I know I am.

If you're on "your day off" then why are you posting=???

 

[IsmaR]

Honestly people don't give Jigglypuff enough credit as far as the "being easy to program" comments go. Think about all the attributes unique to it and it alone (floatiest character, only character to fly straight up when their shield breaks, having the only non-FS moves that incude Sleep both on others and itself, and the fact that she remains the only character with a non-recovery Up B)

If you're on "your day off" then why are you posting=???

I meant that I'm enjoying his day off. All these tears are delicious.

 

[Morbi]

If you're on "your day off" then why are you posting=???

She is enjoying Sakurai's day off. You just read the post wrong.

 

[IsmaR]

Technically I was enjoying my day off until an hour or two ago.

Avoiding every non-Social Group thread except this one because of Pokemon hype-induced stupidity.

 

[Sonsa]

Technically I was enjoying my day off until an hour or two ago.

Avoiding every non-Social Group thread except this one because of Pokemon hype-induced stupidity.

You don't seem very nice...

 

[Swamp Sensei]

You don't seem very nice...

 

[Morbi]

You don't seem very nice...

That was pretty blunt. Haha. Just a different personality on the forums. She might not be nice, but she certainly isn't rude or anything.

 

[Sonsa]

That was pretty blunt. Haha. Just a different personality on the forums. She might not be nice, but she certainly isn't rude or anything.

Oh alright. Guess it's hard to get sarcasm or friendly insults through text...and yeah, I am new here! Sorry! XD

 

[IsmaR]

You don't seem very nice...

You didn't ask me to be. Thanks for the compliment and new sig, either way.

 

[Sonsa]

You didn't ask me to be. Thanks for the compliment and new sig, either way.

Doesn't it go without saying? Anyway, we'd only just met kinda! But you're welcome I suppose! And nice to meet you!

 

[Morbi]

Doesn't it go without saying? Anyway, we'd only just met kinda! But you're welcome I suppose! And nice to meet you!

Nice try... but no. It is a lost cause my young Jigglypuff.

 

[LoneKonWolf]

I can't let you brew that Starbucks!!!!

#TeamWolf

has to be done

#team wolf

 

[SchAlternate]

I can't let you brew that Starbucks!!!!

#TeamWolf

I'm not a brand of coffee, you loony.

Whatever you're smoking, must be affecting your brain hard.

 

[Sonsa]

Well I don't quite know what's going on anymore but I've embarrassed myself enough for one night! Sleepy...ganna sleep...hope something happens while im asleep but if not...um, oh well I guess. Sweet dreams everyone!

 

[Morbi]

Well I don't quite know what's going on anymore but I've embarrassed myself enough for one night! Sleepy...ganna sleep...hope something happens while im asleep but if not...um, oh well I guess. Sweet dreams everyone!

Yeah, see you later Sonsa. Sleep on your soft pillow, and pretend it is a Jigglypuff.

 

[SchAlternate]

GUYS! GUESS WHAT!

Spoiler

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

How do you think newcomer reveals will be handled, guys? Do you think we'll get a "A new challenger's approaching" message that links us to their trailer, and then their official character page later in the day? (I guess this is off-topic, but it's not major)

 

[Morbi]

How do you think newcomer reveals will be handled, guys? Do you think we'll get a "A new challenger's approaching" message that links us to their trailer, and then their official character page later in the day? (I guess this is off-topic, but it's not major)

Yes. I think it will be handled very similarly to how they handled Wii Fit Trainer.

 

[LoneKonWolf]

How do you think newcomer reveals will be handled, guys? Do you think we'll get a "A new challenger's approaching" message that links us to their trailer, and then their official character page later in the day? (I guess this is off-topic, but it's not major)

something like that, I imagine they will make them a big deal of some sort, with trailers and everything (because whynut)

 

[Gune]

I honestly missed that, is there any chance you can link me an article? I would be very interested in reading it.

Spoiler

This shot is inside the tower. The huge statue of Lucario is important; apparently, in the context of the game's lore, Lucario was the first pokemon to ever Mega-Evolve.

The leaker has stated that the story of the first mega evolution goes like this: A strange man and his Lucario traveled to Kalos and found a weird stone, and Lucario mega-evolved with it. Nothing too in-depth, but still interesting.

clipped that from the site and heres the link to the leak.
there are some spoilers on the site so read at your own risk
http://imgur.com/a/7aohL#iNqnLmB
Lucario is also the tutorial mega evolution pokemon too and you get to keep that lucario too.

 

[Morbi]

Spoiler

This shot is inside the tower. The huge statue of Lucario is important; apparently, in the context of the game's lore, Lucario was the first pokemon to ever Mega-Evolve.

The leaker has stated that the story of the first mega evolution goes like this: A strange man and his Lucario traveled to Kalos and found a weird stone, and Lucario mega-evolved with it. Nothing too in-depth, but still interesting.

clipped that from the site and heres the link to the leak.
there are some spoilers on the site so read at your own risk
http://imgur.com/a/7aohL#iNqnLmB
Lucario is also the tutorial mega evolution pokemon too and you get to keep that lucario too.

Thanks. This actually helps me understand why Lucario could be a more crucial character. I always thought he was the second most likely to be revealed, but now I have some evidence to support that claim.

 

[SchAlternate]

Well, whatevs. I'm off. See ya.

 

[Morbi]

Well, whatevs. I'm off. See ya.

See you later Sch. You be safe, watch before you cross the street. You never know if you might get ran over by a Jigglypuff in a C6 Corvette!

 

[LoneKonWolf]

See you later Sch. You be safe, watch before you cross the street. You never know if you might get ran over by a Jigglypuff in a C6 Corvette!

 

[Swift Fox]

If nothing's happening on 1am then I'm done here.

 

[Johnknight1]

If nothing's happening on 1am then I'm done here.

Nothing is happening at 1 AM.

For starters, the Dojo updates are now an hour earlier (12 midnight PST), second off Pokémon X & Y already launched, and third off, we're not getting a Dojo update on a non-weekday.

Honestly people don't give Jigglypuff enough credit as far as the "being easy to program" comments go. Think about all the attributes unique to it and it alone (floatiest character, only character to fly straight up when their shield breaks, having the only non-FS moves that incude Sleep both on others and itself, and the fact that she remains the only character with a non-recovery Up B)

In general veterans are "easy to program." You got all the frame data, animations, moveset, playstyle, and skillset mapped out in the saved data, as well as the ease of remembering. After all, is it easier to say play Super Mario 64 after playing it for 20 hours previously lately, or is it easier to play say a third person shooter that you've never played=???

But yeah, literally in Melee and Brawl we saw a ton of animations, frame data, etc be ported from one game to the next. Granted each game every character has been somewhat re-balanced, but often their core style and characteristics don't change at all, or if they do, it's very minor.

With newcomers, everything's gotta be from scratch, which makes them way more expensive, time consuming, focus stealing, and just all around harder to add than veterans. That's why if you want the biggest roster possible you want at least all the 39 Brawl veterans back.

I meant that I'm enjoying his day off. All these tears are delicious.

Well I'm just in it for, as Black Sabbath would say, "The Thrill of it All". And as Motörhead would say, "You know the chase is better than the catch."

 

[courte]

Nothing is happening at 1 AM.

For starters, the Dojo updates are now an hour earlier (12 midnight PST), second off Pokémon X & Y already launched, and third off, we're not getting a Dojo update on a non-weekday.

In general veterans are "easy to program." You got all the frame data, animations, moveset, playstyle, and skillset mapped out in the saved data, as well as the ease of remembering. After all, is it easier to say play Super Mario 64 after playing it for 20 hours previously lately, or is it easier to play say a third person shooter that you've never played=???

But yeah, literally in Melee and Brawl we saw a ton of animations, frame data, etc be ported from one game to the next. Granted each game every character has been somewhat re-balanced, but often their core style and characteristics don't change at all, or if they do, it's very minor.

With newcomers, everything's gotta be from scratch, which makes them way more expensive, time consuming, focus stealing, and just all around harder to add than veterans. That's why if you want the biggest roster possible you want at least all the 39 Brawl veterans back.

Well I'm just in it for, as Black Sabbath would say, "The Thrill of it All". And as Motörhead would say, "You know the chase is better than the catch."

...what

 

[LoneKonWolf]

so . . . .
anyone got any more topics to discuss, preferably ones that are on topic

 

[Inawordyes]

so . . . .
anyone got any more topics to discuss, preferably ones that are on topic

If on-topic is as in roster predictions, then we could discuss the one I just posted in the Display thread for a post or two until somebody comes up with a random post that derails the thread again:

View attachment 3254

Figured I'd take my shot at a roster. Unlockable vets in red, unlockable newcomers in yellow. The bottom, disjointed line is for post-release DLC.

[collapse=Reasoning behind placements and DLC choices:]
Mario (and related series) takes the top spot since they are the most iconic. Also since they all fit on one row together.

Next comes Zelda and Pokemon, signifying the three biggest series in Nintendo's repertoire, or at least the ones they always include in reveal trailers for Smash games. Zelda and Sheik are still a duo, and the Pokemon Trainer is still the Kanto trainer and thus has the same Pokemon lineup from Brawl (Squirtle/Ivysaur/Charizard)

Kirby would be the fourth, but due to a tradition whereupon Sakurai seems to like putting Kirby (his own creation) as close to the center of the roster as possible, I opted instead to put the Kirby series on the right so that Kirby would be right next to the random select in the center of the CSS (if not for the random select, Kirby would, in fact, be right in the center of the roster). Star Fox takes the left side, followed by Mii and Ice Climbers as filler positions due to the fact that there wasn't anywhere else to put them with the theme I had developed.

Fire Emblem starts off the fourth row, and this is pretty straightforward - Fire Emblem sword users, check, Shulk, Isaac, Pit = sword users, check. Palutena sits next to Pit and breaks the line, so Samus and Ridley fill the other half of the row, surrounded by fellow captains - namely, Olimar and Captain Falcon. Zero Suit Samus is still included, and the two are now interchangable much like Zelda/Sheik and the Pokemon Trainer Pokemon.

The last row is dedicated primarily to retros. I realize I should have switched Little Mac and Villager for better flow, so that it would be Lucas and Ness for Earthbound reps along with the Villager, another child, beside them (because of his ax and the whole meme that developed from it, I opted to put him underneath the other sword users). Little Mac would then fall alongside Takamaru, his supposed East Meets West rival and former fellow retroite. Wii Fit Trainer, meanwhile starts sits beside them, followed by a three-robot chain of Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B. and Mega Man, who also start begins the 3rd-party reps, namely himself, Sonic, and the Pac-Man ending the roster.

The last row features a total of eleven post-release DLC characters. My reasoning for their inclusion:

Porky because he's a major antagonist in Earthbound/Mother, and while I had previously included the Masked Man on this roster in times past, I am convinced that between the two, Porky would be more interesting, especially as he wouldn't have to rely on PK attacks [so much].

Mike Jones falls beside Porky (the two being under Ness and Lucas for obvious reasons) due to the similarities in both, being that they both use yo-yos. Also, being that he was a Western-only character, it would be good reverse marketing for those over in Japan, in the same lieu of Fire Emblem being introduced to the West.

Chrom because he's seems to be the most-likely Fire Emblem rep to be added after the other three, so he falls here where he'd fall in the same column underneath a fellow RE rep (since the first two spots are taken by Porky and Mike Jones).

Impa because she is the most reoccurring character after the main three, and because as a fellow sheikah, it would be fast and easy to create for her a luigified Sheik moveset (all characters are luigified if taking inspiration from characters already included). So put because she falls in column line with another Zelda rep (since the previous three slots have been taken).

Wonder Red for superhero and awesome potential. After everybody else, there really wasn't room for him anywhere else in the row, so he doesn't really follow after anybody column-wise. There is also really nobody (except possibly Captain Falcon) that he could be a luigified clone of, and he shouldn't be anyways. He would be the most original of the DLC characters (followed by Porky and then Sukapon and Chibi-Robo)

Goku (not the DBZ character) because he's awesome. Personal bias aside, he uses a staff, and has lots of inspiration for a moveset since he's based off of Journey to the West legend. But there's also the possibility that he could be a luigified clone of Krystal (in my roster, I see a trio of Zelda, wielding magic; Krystal, fighting with a staff; and Palutena, fighting with a mixture of her staff/wand and magic, and acting as a buffer in-between the two) due to the staff or possibly even a luigified clone of Palutena. He is placed in his spot for dual reasons: One, he falls in the column with Donkey Kong, a fellow primate, and while he would be better placed underneath Palutena due to her status as a Goddess and his as the Monkey King (as well as better size comparisons with Diddy over Donkey), falling under Pit is a fair compromise.

Sukapon lies beside Goku, the both of them bound by a common, Japan-only exclusivity. As Sukapon is a robot, it would obviously fall underneath another robot, which is why it takes the spot he does over Goku (as Wii Fit Trainer is not a robot). The introduction of Sukapon and Goku, their being Japan-exclusive much in the same vain Fire Emblem was, would serve to bring two awesome characters to the Western Casuals' eyes, the same as Mike Jones would do in reverse. Having come from a fighting game itself, Sukapon has plenty of potential inspiration from its own series, as well as likely being a quick and easy character to model and create due to the simplicity in its design.

Chibi-Robo, also a robot, comes next. I could see him having attacks similar to Pikachu (since both are electricity-based), though on a humanoid body as opposed to on-all-fours, though he would and should not be a luigified clone.

Sylveon next because of being a Gen VI rep (Pichu added for Gen II relevancy, Lucario for Gen IV), though she obviously hasn't been really advertised like Mewtwo's new form or Mega Lucario. Still, she represents the latest in the popular Eevee line, and due to her nature, she could easily be a luigified clone of Ivysaur with a few Jigglypuff Fairy-type references thrown in (as Jigglypuff will likely get retooled a little with new fairy moves). Speaking of, Sylveon falls in line column-wise with Jigglypuff, since both share the Fairy type between themselves.

Sami, of Advance Wars fame, is an interesting case. Originally, I had included her in the main selection in the first form of this roster (her and Isaac were switched in that regard), but found no place for her this time around. That being said, with the advent (in this roster) of Snake not returning, Sami is the only character with enough relevancy to her own series (being on equal footing with Andy as a co-main character in later AW games) and a canonical moveset that would work for her being a luigified clone of Snake, with Advance Wars references in her mvoeset replacing the ill-fitting MGS-based moves Snake has. However, since Snake is not coming back, Sami, even in her lugified state, would be the only thing left of his moveset for those who play as him, and it is for this reason that she falls underneath Sonic (since Sonic and Snake were the two 3rd-party characters in Brawl).

Last, but not least, is Black Shadow. He's here at the end obviously because of Captain Falcon, and he represents a major antagonist role coming from the F-Zero series. Nothing too special in terms of moveset, just the usual form of giving him Ganondorf current moveset and retooling Ganondorf into something more befitting of his Zelda nature (of which he'd have already at release, with Black Shadow coming in later as DLC for those who preferred Ganondorf over Falcon in Brawl). It would definitely fit Black Shadow better, seeing as he and Falcon are from the same series, which would justify their having similar moveset styles.
[/collapse]

A total of 54 roster slots, a nice number. As well as 11 post-release DLC characters (more wishful thinking on my part than actual prediction), for a total of 66, and the Trainer Pokemon and ZZS and Sheik, for a grand total of 70 playable characters. Insanely high, I know. I had to make sacrifices (namely Snake, the only vet cut, and Dillon, who is one of my most-wanted characters and I didn't realize wasn't on the roster until all the slots were full and I had no way to justify his inclusion over anybody else except the Mii. With their inclusion being very likely, however, he had no place, and therefore didn't make the cut (If he was included, he would switch with Ice Climbers due to his status as an anthropomorphic armadillo both fitting visually with the Kirby characters and also the Pokemon characters).


But anyways, thoughts?

 

[Swift Fox]

Nothing is happening at 1 AM.

For starters, the Dojo updates are now an hour earlier (12 midnight PST), second off Pokémon X & Y already launched, and third off, we're not getting a Dojo update on a non-weekday.

When did it went one hour earlier for Smash updates? All I know Sakurai posted updates in Miiverse several minutes earlier.

And yeah I guess you're right no way there'll be updates on the weekends.

In general veterans are "easy to program." You got all the frame data, animations, moveset, playstyle, and skillset mapped out in the saved data, as well as the ease of remembering. After all, is it easier to say play Super Mario 64 after playing it for 20 hours previously lately, or is it easier to play say a third person shooter that you've never played=???

But yeah, literally in Melee and Brawl we saw a ton of animations, frame data, etc be ported from one game to the next. Granted each game every character has been somewhat re-balanced, but often their core style and characteristics don't change at all, or if they do, it's very minor.

With newcomers, everything's gotta be from scratch, which makes them way more expensive, time consuming, focus stealing, and just all around harder to add than veterans. That's why if you want the biggest roster possible you want at least all the 39 Brawl veterans back.

That's why I think Mewtwo and Pokemon Trainer can't be announced before Lucario or Jigglypuff because of several reasons: Smash team will have to port Mewtwo straight from Melee and Pokemon Trainer will have to be ported over three times because of his three Pokemon.

It's up to Lucario and Jigglypuff to make an appearance before them. If Jiggs has to be a hidden character again for SSB4 then in the end it's Lucario's turn.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

so . . . .
anyone got any more topics to discuss, preferably ones that are on topic

Unless someone has a roster to present, I don't think so. Mine's been posted a lot, so I'll refrain from posting it again.

 

[AEMehr]

Not sure if this was brought up but I want to clarify something quickly,
Wii Fit Trainer is SLEEPING in Friday's pic.

There is only ONE character that can cause others to sleep.

The only winner is MorbidAlterism.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

Not sure if this was brought up but I want to clarify something quickly,
Wii Fit Trainer is SLEEPING in Friday's pic.

There is only ONE character that can cause others to sleep.

The only winner is MorbidAlterism.

Only one character, but for all we know, that was caused by a new and unknown item or effect.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Mines has been posted alot too, and I still get bad criticism just because of certain characters. I'll refrain too I guess. To be honest I think I've seen every kind of roster by now. No roster has changed from the users I know here, It's still the same ol genero roster I see every day.

 

[FalKoopa]

Not sure if this was brought up but I want to clarify something quickly,
Wii Fit Trainer is SLEEPING in Friday's pic.

There is only ONE character that can cause others to sleep.

The only winner is MorbidAlterism.

That was a subtle hint...

Now Sakurai will show Lucario to throw you off again.

 

[Swift Fox]

Ah **** Lucario's recovery move sucks so bad like Jigglypuff's!