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Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

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Arcadenik

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Jr. I think he's more feasible, his role has been expanding since sunshine.
I am not so sure about that... He wasn't in Super Mario 3D Land and New Super Mario Bros. 2.... and it looks like he is not in Super Mario 3D World... and Bowser Jr. seems like he is overshadowed by the Koopalings when they appear together in the same games... Bowser Jr. seems more important in the Galaxy games.

Toad is very feasible too... maybe even more feasible than Bowser Jr. is... and his role seems to be expanding from a NPC to one of the playable protagonists.
 

EddyBearr

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I believe ROB is a shoo-in.

Importance to Video Game history aside, he was a major part of the SSE. His moveset could be improved, yes, but it's still a unique one and completely unlike anything we had seen before. In fact, He shows more emotion than Mario.

Actually, ROB was on my dream roster for Brawl after he was playable in Mario Kart DS. :awesome: I'm one of the few people who were delighted when he was revealed.

Major part of the SSE, yeah, but his part in the SSE was pretty much just robot minions. An assist trophy.

His moveset is fine for the character he is, but my beef is more like.. Why does R.O.B. have his attacks? Why does mario throw a fireball? Fire flower. Why does game & watch have all his attacks? What is their source? My moveset issue with R.O.B. is that they just improvised his attacks, because unlike Link and his spin attack, or Yoshi and his egg-throwing, R.O.B. didn't have a canon movepool.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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I'm seeing K. Rool come up in relation to still having a chance because he's supremely important, and I feel compelled to remind people that he's supremely important in part due to recurring in virtually every DK game up through 2008. His situation is not remotely similar to that of Skull Kid or Wart, and wouldn't be even if those two were as popular as he is.

Also, retro characters laugh at the fan-fabricated notion that "Nintendo would intervene if Sakurai put in non-recent characters." Granted, the entire roster isn't made up of retro characters, but no one is asking for that...except that one fake leaker responsible for the steaming mound of "Smash Bros. Memories" crap.
When I mentioned something in that vein, I wasn't referring to retros. Those characters are put in for that reason. I'm referring to characters from established series like Mario, Zelda, etc... If Sakurai had literally no reason to add somebody (again, like Wart or Skull Kid) when there are other more suitable characters, then I would like to think Nintendo would be like, " Yo wtf you doin mang?"
 

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Major part of the SSE, yeah, but his part in the SSE was pretty much just robot minions. An assist trophy.

His moveset is fine for the character he is, but my beef is more like.. Why does R.O.B. have his attacks? Why does mario throw a fireball? Fire flower. Why does game & watch have all his attacks? What is their source? My moveset issue with R.O.B. is that they just improvised his attacks, because unlike Link and his spin attack, or Yoshi and his egg-throwing, R.O.B. didn't have a canon movepool.
I find that a VERY weak argument. Capt Falcon and Ice Climbers had little canon material to work with, just like ROB. Their movesets aren't canon either.

Zelda doesn't use any of her attacks; they are used by Link in OoT.

Ganon's moveset isn't canon, seeing that his moves are cloned from Capt. Falcon.

Pit's dual swords weren't canon when he was included in Brawl.

It doesn't affect a character's chances, as far as I see it.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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Major part of the SSE, yeah, but his part in the SSE was pretty much just robot minions. An assist trophy.

His moveset is fine for the character he is, but my beef is more like.. Why does R.O.B. have his attacks? Why does mario throw a fireball? Fire flower. Why does game & watch have all his attacks? What is their source? My moveset issue with R.O.B. is that they just improvised his attacks, because unlike Link and his spin attack, or Yoshi and his egg-throwing, R.O.B. didn't have a canon movepool.
Well I mean really, he was a toy. What are they supposed to give him? I don't think his moveset is a big deal. They just gave him robot things because he's a robot.
 

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Major part of the SSE, yeah, but his part in the SSE was pretty much just robot minions. An assist trophy.

His moveset is fine for the character he is, but my beef is more like.. Why does R.O.B. have his attacks? Why does mario throw a fireball? Fire flower. Why does game & watch have all his attacks? What is their source? My moveset issue with R.O.B. is that they just improvised his attacks, because unlike Link and his spin attack, or Yoshi and his egg-throwing, R.O.B. didn't have a canon movepool.
Neither did Zelda, yet they improvised her moveset based off of Link's magic.

All the Ice Climbers did was jump and hit with their hammers, yet they made a moveset for them.

Canon really doesn't matter.

Dammit, Fal, you covered my points. Okay, um... ZSS barely has anything to work with, yet they made a moveset for her.
 

Arcadenik

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Well, a lot of R.O.B.'s moves involve moving its arms... well, the original Robotic Operating Buddy for the NES moved its arms in order for you to play Gyromite and Stack-Up.
 

EddyBearr

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I find that a VERY weak argument. Capt Falcon and Ice Climbers had little canon material to work with, just like ROB. Their movesets aren't canon either.

Zelda doesn't use any of her attacks; they are used by Link in OoT.

Ganon's moveset isn't canon, seeing that his moves are cloned from Capt. Falcon.

Pit's dual swords weren't canon when he was included in Brawl.

It doesn't affect a character's chances, as far as I see it.
Captain Falcon has "falcon" based attacks, which is more character-related than "robot" attacks, so it's not as bad. Above that, Captain Falcon has personality that R.O.B. lacks, relate-ability that R.O.B. lacks, and was significantly more iconic at debut.

Ice Climbers have a hammer based moveset because they're hammer based fighters, and again they don't lack in personality and etc.

Zelda didn't use farore's wind or etc, but we knew she was magical from OoT. Simultaneously, Zelda was kind of a character that "had" to be in the game, as she is the namesake of the entire LoZ series. There's a difference between improvising on a moveset for a character that was in the thoughts of practically every potential customer, and improvising on a moveset for a character that very few knew about, let alone thought of it for smash. And even beyond all that, making up "laser eyes" because "it's a robot" is far from having Zelda use Link's magical items.

Yes, and I think Ganon's lack of a character-related moveset has been a bother to the smash community for a while, right?

True with pit as well, but a variable is Sakurai designing the game.

Above all this, they didn't have to improvise for pretty much every move like with R.O.B.

At least with C. Falcon, he has "falcon attacks," and despite a lack of creativity, at least "hammer attacks" work with the Ice Climbers, but with ROB, it's pretty much just "he's a robot. Do robot things." That's like saying, "Link is humanoid. Have him punch/kick/etc."

With R.O.B., you're not going to find a YouTube video with 100k views about the history behind their moves in SSB like you would with Pikachu, or Link.

One major thing smash does is it represents multiple franchises, so if the moveset doesn't reflect the character form the franchise, then that's pretty poor representation.

It's not that R.O.B lacks personality, or has an exceedingly basic/non-personal moveset, or that he wasn't as acclaimed/popular/etc to warrant a slot as much as whatever next character, it's that he has a, what I'd say, noteworthy extent of all these problems, which makes them compound. Yes, C. Falcon lacked an inherent movepool, but he had personality and a little less movepool issues than R.O.B.

They just gave him robot things because he's a robot.
That's what I'm saying. He's a representation of robots, not of "R.O.B.," because there's nothing to represent of R.O.B. He's "just a robot," not a unique Nintendo character.
Neither did Zelda, yet they improvised her moveset based off of Link's magic.

All the Ice Climbers did was jump and hit with their hammers, yet they made a moveset for them.

Canon really doesn't matter.

Dammit, Fal, you covered my points. Okay, um... ZSS barely has anything to work with, yet they made a moveset for her.
We already knew Zelda was magical, I posted about ICs but I'll add that at least they have ice related things as well.

I'd like to think that Canon matters quite a bit. If not, don't you think it would help declone Toon Link by replacing his sword with Judo skills?

As for ZSS, that's true. But again (not at the same scale, though) she was highly demanded and anticipated, like Zelda was in Melee, so she "had" to be in.


Well, a lot of R.O.B.'s moves involve moving its arms... well, the original Robotic Operating Buddy for the NES moved its arms in order for you to play Gyromite and Stack-Up.
I don't think that's very strong. If something has arms, and it wants to do something, it's gonna move them. That doesn't separate rob from anything else that has arms.
 

Arcadenik

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I'd like to think that Canon matters quite a bit. If not, don't you think it would help declone Toon Link by replacing his sword with Judo skills?
Says canon matters... wants Toon Link to have judo skills. :troll:
 

EddyBearr

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Sakurai never did anything with Kid Icarus before Brawl, so your argument with Pit is invalid.
Concession there, I had a lapse in thought and assumed Kid Icarus was planned to be re-made during Brawl's development.

Wait, what judo skills?
Just judo skills. Or Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, or Karate. Any works. Greco-Roman wrestling maybe..
 

Sid-cada

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It's not that R.O.B lacks personality, or has an exceedingly basic/non-personal moveset, or that he wasn't as acclaimed/popular/etc to warrant a slot as much as whatever next character, it's that he has a, what I'd say, noteworthy extent of all these problems, which makes them compound. Yes, C. Falcon lacked an inherent movepool, but he had personality and a little less movepool issues than R.O.B.
Well, here's what I have been able to figure out about his moveset, in relation to ROB:

The Gyro is the easiest to explain- that's the real thing ROBs did in Gyromite, so I'm not to sure how much explanation is needed.

The Robo Beam is a creative reinterpretation of ROB's light function. The light on top of a ROB's head would indicate that it is both fully charged and is capable of reading lights on the TV screen. A chartable, light-based attack works naturally into a laser-based move, and the light serves it's original purpose as a way to keep track of charge.

Arm Rotor is based on how the arms of ROB is the most moveable part of him. In fact, originally, it was the only part of him that moved. Making one of his trademark attacks involve arms made sense, and as his arms could rotate near completely around his body (240/360 degrees), the move came naturally.

The Robo Burner may not be completely a part of ROB's history, but that was just a part of his redesign. ROB had no way of moving around, so a way had to be made up. Tank treads and legs would mess too much with his appearance, so that leaves wheels and the jets that he received. Considering he needed a way to recover, jets made the better choice, especially considering that a number of other moves revolve around the blast the jets provide. It's no worse than how Pit had to have his bow be able to split into blades.

To be honest, I think ROB does have some sort of personality. Look at his up-smash where he does a hand-stand, the down throw where he treats his opponent like a Gyro to be spun, or how he imitates a strongman in his victory poses. Heck, how he attacks with a child's toy, a top. He always gave off the impression of being somewhat playful and silly to me, like a toy should be.
 

EddyBearr

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Well, here's what I have been able to figure out about his moveset, in relation to ROB:

The Gyro is the easiest to explain- that's the real thing ROBs did in Gyromite, so I'm not to sure how much explanation is needed.

The Robo Beam is a creative reinterpretation of ROB's light function. The light on top of a ROB's head would indicate that it is both fully charged and is capable of reading lights on the TV screen. A chartable, light-based attack works naturally into a laser-based move, and the light serves it's original purpose as a way to keep track of charge.

Arm Rotor is based on how the arms of ROB is the most moveable part of him. In fact, originally, it was the only part of him that moved. Making one of his trademark attacks involve arms made sense, and as his arms could rotate near completely around his body (240/360 degrees), the move came naturally.

The Robo Burner may not be completely a part of ROB's history, but that was just a part of his redesign. ROB had no way of moving around, so a way had to be made up. Tank treads and legs would mess too much with his appearance, so that leaves wheels and the jets that he received. Considering he needed a way to recover, jets made the better choice, especially considering that a number of other moves revolve around the blast the jets provide. It's no worse than how Pit had to have his bow be able to split into blades.

To be honest, I think ROB does have some sort of personality. Look at his up-smash where he does a hand-stand, the down throw where he treats his opponent like a Gyro to be spun, or how he imitates a strongman in his victory poses. Heck, how he attacks with a child's toy, a top. He always gave off the impression of being somewhat playful and silly to me, like a toy should be.

Probably, and I'm probably giving R.O.B. too hard a time (I said in an earlier post I have a bias against him,) but it just sits inside me that it would still be far more fitting for him to trade places with Waluigi.

I'll admit that R.O.B. ended up working out, and if we had a 60 character roster likely I'd say we keep him, but I personally feel that out of characters from brawl getting cut, R.O.B. is the 2nd most likely behind Snake (even with a Toon Link reveal,) and a few cuts could practically be guaranteed.


Zelda series reps:

Zelda/Shiek, Toon Zelda/Tetra, Ganondorf. The lack of a Ghirahim option is weird.
 

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For Zelda characters, I'd say Zelda + Sheik and Ganondorf are the most likely. If Zelda were to get one more slot I'd say that Toon Zelda + Tetra would be the most likely... But that's just my opinion I guess... :/
 

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Zelda Series Reps, choose 3. (Zelda + Shiek, T. Zelda + Tetra = 1 Slot):
To be honest I think you can just go ahead and put Ganondorf and Zelda/Sheik back in. Nearly everyone wants/expects them in. The big question is who the last rep would be.

I'm gonna go with Toon Zelda/Tetra. Mostly for Tetra but I can't see her getting in on her own. I'd go for the more unique Tingle, but it'd be a wasted vote probably seeing as he's about as popular as Waluigi around here.
(Although that still puts him above Impa and Young Link)
 

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Zelda Series Reps, choose 3. (Zelda + Shiek, T. Zelda + Tetra = 1 Slot):
Zelda/Shiek and Ganondorf are pretty much a guarantee. That last slot is pretty much a toss up, and it could go down in a variety of ways. ToonZelda/Tetra is a likely choice I suppose, but there is alot of stiff competition from Vaati, Impa, even Tingle.

Im going with Vaati if there's a 5th spot
 

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Just a bit of a graphical update since my last roster, but eh. May as well.



Nothing too out of the ordinary here, but I find this to be a pretty good prediction, personally.
 

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Just a bit of a graphical update since my last roster, but eh. May as well.



Nothing too out of the ordinary here, but I find this to be a pretty good prediction, personally.
That is actually a good roster if it happened that way. But out of these characters, who should be unlockable?
 

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That is actually a good roster if it happened that way. But out of these characters, who should be unlockable?
To be honest, I haven't given it much thought, haha. Perhaps I'll start working on the Starting Roster version of it.


EDIT: Okay, here's the Starter version.



Unlockables: Luigi, Ganondorf, Toon Link, Lucario, Mewtwo, Falco, Wolf, Ike, Lucas, ROB, Palutena, K. Rool, Snake, Sonic, Mega Man.
 

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That's my point, you are saying having a unique move set gets you in and that you "don't give a crap about being deserving"
No, I'm saying part of being deserving is having unique moves or being a great blank slate character. Being popular and/or important gets you considered; being the best character choice in terms of gameplay of those picks gets you playable.

Being popular and/or important (like I previously said) gets you considered; having incredible potential as a playable character gets you playable.
But, they didn't start out this way. They got in for being iconic and then they got their move set.
They got in because they are iconic and because Sakurai, Miyamoto, and HAL had great movesets in mind for Captain Falcon and Fox because they were great blank slate characters. Heck, even Mario and Luigi are a bit of blank slate characters. I mean seriously, they play a loootttttttt like Ryu and Ken from Street Fighter.

Point is, Sakurai and company had pre-conceived things they could add to these and other "blank slates" in mind before making them playable (that doesn't feel "off" with the character), which, again, is another form of uniqueness.
 

8-peacock-8

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Got bored so i made a rooster. Plus an AT and boss rooster.

Alloy Team is a place holder for the next fighting team. Metal Mario represents the METAL fight.

Only two third parties because i really doubt we'll get a third. But i would like to be proven wrong on that.

Yeah. I know Ike and Wolf are missing. What of it?

:laugh:
 

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No, I'm saying part of being deserving is having unique moves or being a great blank slate character. Being popular and/or important gets you considered; being the best character choice in terms of gameplay of those picks gets you playable.

Being popular and/or important (like I previously said) gets you considered; having incredible potential as a playable character gets you playable.

They got in because they are iconic and because Sakurai, Miyamoto, and HAL had great movesets in mind for Captain Falcon and Fox because they were great blank slate characters. Heck, even Mario and Luigi are a bit of blank slate characters. I mean seriously, they play a loootttttttt like Ryu and Ken from Street Fighter.

Point is, Sakurai and company had pre-conceived things they could add to these and other "blank slates" in mind before making them playable (that doesn't feel "off" with the character), which, again, is another form of uniqueness.
Since you are so adamant about your opinion. Please tell me a character that has a unique moveset that got in the game over a character of more importance. The only ones I can really think of are Game and Watch or Ice Climbers. Actually, Game and Watch is somewhat important. So Ice Climbers. The rest of the roster is filled with ESSENTIAL characters from each franchise. There are no characters that were just thrown in because they have a unique moveset.
 

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This is something i'd always thought about but never asked anyone. Out of all of the characters in the game, who do you think has the blandest moveset?
Pit in Brawl, followed by ROB in Brawl, followed by Mewtwo in Melee.
Just judo skills. Or Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, or Karate. Any works. Greco-Roman wrestling maybe..
Nothing about Toon Link screams grappling or karate.

If you want to give a character those moves, use a blank slate character or like a Street Fighter character. Heck, Nintendo has a few karate using characters.
Since you are so adamant about your opinion. Please tell me a character that has a unique moveset that got in the game over a character of more importance. The only ones I can really think of are Game and Watch or Ice Climbers. Actually, Game and Watch is somewhat important. So Ice Climbers. The rest of the roster is filled with ESSENTIAL characters from each franchise. There are no characters that were just thrown in because they have a unique moveset.
Game & Watch is ridiculously important. As for the Ice Climbers, they got in over a dozen "important" Mario and Pokémon characters.

Still, the Ice Climbers are "important enough" because they are the stars of a game.
 

FalKoopa

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I suddenly saw that I had 8 new alerts.

Why?

"MorbidAltruism liked your post in the thread Roster Prediction Discussion Thread." x 8

(-_-)
 

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To be honest, I haven't given it much thought, haha. Perhaps I'll start working on the Starting Roster version of it.


EDIT: Okay, here's the Starter version.



Unlockables: Luigi, Ganondorf, Toon Link, Lucario, Mewtwo, Falco, Wolf, Ike, Lucas, ROB, Palutena, K. Rool, Snake, Sonic, Mega Man.
If Luigi is unlockable, why wouldn't Jigglypuff be unlockable. She was unlockable in every game, I don't think Smash 4 would be too different.
 

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If Luigi is unlockable, why wouldn't Jigglypuff be unlockable. She was unlockable in every game, I don't think Smash 4 would be too different.
It's sort of a tough call, but I think with Luigi, he just makes more sense as an unlockable. In Jiggly's case, I just feel she can pull off becoming a starter, possibly to show off some of the new Gen VI features more prominently (being a Fairy-type, and all) as a starter. Arguably, Mewtwo or Lucario can show off some of Gen VI's new features as well, but I think they just make more sense as unlockables. That, and having all four Mario characters as starters would be kind of odd.

Just my thought process. :p
 

Arcadenik

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I don't like the idea of having only 10 or less newcomers... yes, Sakurai said he isn't adding too many newcomers but that doesn't mean he is adding too few newcomers. Hell, I think that even saying "I don't want to add too many newcomers" contradicts with "I want to add as many characters as I can".
 
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