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Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

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Autumn ♫

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So?
They were demanded by fan-demand to come to the West, which happens almost never happens, giving it a sense of importance
Still doesn't put him above alot of other franchises.

But we are talking about the Wii now, not the SNES or N64.
So we ARE talking about "muh recency".

X, it seems to be a sequel to Xenoblade
Yet there is no mention of it having anything to do with Xenoblade

Not quite as many as Shulk does though.
So Golden Sun being a very well received game and getting 2 sequels is less merits than simply being a well received game? No.

That's my point, they aren't the same franchise, having 3 Xenoblade characters is really excessive, however having 3 different franchises doesn't make it excessive
It is when these are not highly important Nintendo franchises.
Such as? Tell me something that has had such a big noticability as Project Rainfall

Recency helps some yes, but it's not the only thing

It looks alot like the Graphical Style of Xenoblade, the only thing we know for it's name is X, which the only franchise I can think of that starts with that is Xenoblade,

If it was so good, he would have gotten in in Brawl, but he didn't and Dark Dawn was the worst selling out of the 3 and Camelot isn't really thinking of making a new GoldenSun at the moment either, so I don't see much going for him since he's basicly where he was at or lower than during Brawl.

I'd say Xenoblade is pretty important and since the other 2 are DLC, I see no problem in it.
 

TumblrFamous

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Hotfeet I love your roster. It's very well-done, just I don't buy into Tiki. I would love her in the game, but if a anything, make her DLC, and put in either Chrom, Lucina, or Roy. Zael and Aeron are also interesting choices. 9/10

So, I'm working on a mantle for my living room, so I haven't been able to really do anything on here. So, for the time being, I shall leave. Tata for now.
 

TheLastJinjo

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Such as? Tell me something that has had such a big noticability as Project Rainfall
Mario, Pokemon, and Zelda? Heck, Pikmin might not have gotten in without a sequel. You can have huge notability, but you also have to make good history with Nintendo outside of being liked.


If it was so good, he would have gotten in in Brawl
Little Mac, Mewtwo, Mega Man, Ridley, Villager, Takamaru & Bowser Jr are all deconfirmed then. Did you notice that Brawl was on a time schedule and couldn't fit in a lot of characters. Do you expect Issac to get in over Wario, Meta Knight, King Dedede, Wolf, Diddy Kong, and the rest? If Ridley was so good I guess he would have been in Brawl, ammirite? Guess we ain't getting no Ridley.

but he didn't and Dark Dawn was the worst selling out of the 3 and Camelot isn't really thinking of making a new GoldenSun at the moment either, so I don't see much going for him since he's basicly where he was at or lower than during Brawl.

Meaning not that low. But, I guess because the game that came out 3 years ago wasn't THAT well recieved I guess Golden Sun is shunned from Nintendo history. Because we all know it's about how well received a game is.

since the other 2 are DLC, I see no problem in it.
Because why do they deserve to get in over other DLC?
DLC fits for characters that only have a one-time role, but are very popular, ones like Ghirahim and Zoroark.
What has Girahim done to deserve anything?
 

Hotfeet444

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All this talk talk talk...I ain't removing Shulk. :p Project Rainfall and Xenoblade have earned their spot in this coming Smash Bros. Not to mention I fancy the idea of how unique Zael and Aeron can be as characters.

If you people like Isaac over Shulk, good for you, but that doesn't make his chances better than Shulk's.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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The thing people need to realize is that recency DOES matter. Just not the deciding factor.

At this point in time, why the hell would Sakurai reach all the way back to for example the N64 to include...Skull Kid or someone else that old, instead of taking a character from a well received game on the Wii that got a large amount of publicity? It only makes sense for Sakurai to look at series that showed up between Brawl and now, and Shulk has a decent chance to get in and represent that game. Or maybe the protagonist of "X".

If "recency" is a bad label for any character who had a game in the last generation or is popular because of something fairly recent, then I guess that means that Palutena, Mewtwo and Shulk are terrible choices. Oh wait.
 

Onyx Oblivian

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All this talk talk talk...I ain't removing Shulk. :p Project Rainfall and Xenoblade have earned their spot in this coming Smash Bros. Not to mention I fancy the idea of how unique Zael and Aeron can be as characters.
The fact that The Last Story and Pandora's Tower weren't even localized by Nintendo in America, it was done by a third party, might hurt their shot. I think Shulk is a good face for Op. Rainfall, and all three is a little too much.

Likely? Probably. But I don't think the other two are likely. I do see Shulk getting in before Isaac now that Monolith Soft is a first party company.
 

TheLastJinjo

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At this point in time, why the hell would Sakurai reach all the way back to for example the N64 to include...Skull Kid or someone else that old, instead of taking a character from a well received game on the Wii that got a large amount of publicity?
Because Majora's Mask was a well received game with a large amount of popularity. Maybe the most remembered game in the series.
 

God Robert's Cousin

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Popularity :p
Popularity that will die out just like the support for Wolf Link, Midna, and Zant.
Because Majora's Mask was a well received game with a large amount of popularity. Maybe the most remembered game in the series.
You mean Ocarina of Time? Majora's Mask is great and easily my favorite Zelda with Wind Waker, but it's not the titan of the series you sometimes make it out to be.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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Because Majora's Mask was a well received game with a large amount of popularity. Maybe the most remembered game in the series.
It's way out of range though. It would literally make no sense to put Skull Kid in now. If he was relevant to Zelda currently or as of late, then it would make more sense. That's like saying Wart should get in for the Mario Series because he appeared awhile ago. It makes no sense, especially when there are other newer characters that should be given a chance.
 

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The fact that The Last Story and Pandora's Tower weren't even localized by Nintendo in America, it was done by a third party, might hurt their shot. I think Shulk is a good face for Op. Rainfall, and all three is a little too much.

Likely? Probably. But I don't think the other two are likely. I do see Shulk getting in before Isaac now that Monolith Soft is a first party company.
Which is why I saw Aeron and Zael as DLC characters at best. Not to mention I not only feel as if it'd be good promotional material for these games in regards to the American audience not knowing much about said titles, although they were very good games, but the fact that they have beautiful locations and music to choose from makes me really want to see more from these games as well as Xenoblade. Sure, the huge success of Xenoblade isn't something Last Story and Pandora's Tower have, but that doesn't make them bad games.
 

Onyx Oblivian

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I'd really, REALLY, like Skull Kid. But I don't see him being added for no reason.

HOWEVER, I am 85% certain they are developing Majora's Mask 3D. and I really really hope Sakurai knows about it and when Majora's Mask 3D is announced, he is announced with it hahah :D
 

TheLastJinjo

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It's way out of range though. It would literally make no sense to put Skull Kid in now. If he was relevant to Zelda currently or as of late, then it would make more sense.
So he needs "muh recency?". Why do you need to be more relevant if you're already from one of the most iconic Zelda games ever? (also he was in Twilight Princess.)

That's like saying Wart should get in for the Mario Series because he appeared awhile ago.
Was Wart a popular character from the best Mario game or even remembered by most (not to mention this is just a reskin of Doki Doki Panic.) This is a bad comparison.

It makes no sense, especially when there are other newer characters that should be given a chance.
So they deserve a better chance because they are newer? "Muh recency". Seriously, saying it makes NO sense is really exaggerating.
 

YoshiandToad

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If "recency" is a bad label for any character who had a game in the last generation or is popular because of something fairly recent, then I guess that means that Palutena, Mewtwo and Shulk are terrible choices. Oh wait.
I'm not bashing your point here, but I'm fairly sure Mewtwo has always been popular.

Regardless; both Isaac and Shulk are deserving of a spot. Golden Sun's a very underrated series and one of the most popular IPs not yet given fair representation in Smash, and Operation Rainfall was a huge movement that showed the power of the internet and the fans.

Why can't we have both?
 

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So he needs "muh recency?". Why do you need to be more relevant if you're already from one of the most iconic Zelda games ever? (also he was in Twilight Princess.)
He said recency was an important part of the decision making, just not the big thing.

I agree, although the Wart comparison could have been better. Skull Kid is not relevant to Zelda anymore, because he is not recent. He had a major role in one game. And he wasn't even all that important, he was just a pawn. So adding Skull Kid now, where he hasn't done anything all that prominent or recent, doesn't make much sense.

Recency is a factor, whether people like it or not. This is why I'm more doubtful of Isaac and more certain of Shulk. By being more recent, Shulk is relevant to Nintendo.
 

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So he needs "muh recency?". Why do you need to be more relevant if you're already from one of the most iconic Zelda games ever? (also he was in Twilight Princess.)

Was Wart a popular character from the best Mario game or even remembered by most (not to mention this is just a reskin of Doki Doki Panic.) This is a bad comparison.

So they deserve a better chance because they are newer? "Muh recency". Seriously, saying it makes NO sense is really exaggerating.
Iconic is subjective, I think. It was definitely the blacksheep of the Zelda series to say the least, but it doesn't represent it the best. People often look to Legend of Zelda 1, A Link to the Past, and Ocarina of Time to name the "most iconic" in terms of mechanic, reception, and overall popularity. Again, don't get me wrong. I love Majora's Mask. It's just not Smash Bros. popular, which does not help the fact that Majora's Mask 3D likely won't even be released in time for a mere mention in SSB4. In addition to all of that, when Skull Kid has to compete with more recurring folks like Tingle, Vaati, and dare I say Impa, I definitely feel pessimistic to Skull Kid's chances.

To be a little more objective about this, Majora's Mask sold roughly 3.36 million copies over its lifetime. Ocarina of Time, in comparison, sold 7.6 million copies. Majora's Mask has a 95/100 on Metacritic while Ocarina of Time has 99/100 and is often regarded as literally "one of the best games of all time" among professional gaming websites and communities alike. Sales and reception don't equate to popularity, given, but plenty of evidence exists that Majora's Mask is often regarded as living in Ocarina of Time's shadow... Uncannily like Luigi, now that I think about it. The sibling/game I prefer due to more personality and quirks than his/its brother/predecessor, but will not deny is less popular than Mario/Ocarina of Time.

So while it's easily one of the best Zelda games in your opinion and mine, it's not outright iconic enough to appear in Smash Bros. based on legacy alone. That's all I'm really trying to say, I guess.
 

TheLastJinjo

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He had a major role in one game. And he wasn't even all that important, he was just a pawn.
Smash Brothers doesn't really follow canon. Not to mention he weilds Majora's Mask, the main villain and icon of the game.

So adding Skull Kid now, where he hasn't done anything all that prominent
He hasn't done anything prominent!?!?

Recency is a factor, whether people like it or not. This is why I'm more doubtful of Isaac and more certain of Shulk. By being more recent, Shulk is relevant to Nintendo.
Why does being more relevant matter? This is Nintendo's Greatest, not Nintendo's Latest. Recency is no where near what matters the most. It matters, but not enough to get freaking Shulk in over Issac.
 

BKupa666

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The thing people need to realize is that recency DOES matter. Just not the deciding factor.

At this point in time, why the hell would Sakurai reach all the way back to for example the N64 to include...Skull Kid or someone else that old, instead of taking a character from a well received game on the Wii that got a large amount of publicity? It only makes sense for Sakurai to look at series that showed up between Brawl and now, and Shulk has a decent chance to get in and represent that game. Or maybe the protagonist of "X".

If "recency" is a bad label for any character who had a game in the last generation or is popular because of something fairly recent, then I guess that means that Palutena, Mewtwo and Shulk are terrible choices. Oh wait.
I'd like to point out that your example of Skull Kid is mainly valid not due to him being an old character, but because he's comparatively unimportant when looking at the Zelda characters in Smash. If he had been recurring up in a few more games and then not been in Skyward Sword, or if he weren't utterly overshadowed by Ganondorf as a Zelda villain, or even if people beyond a small-botspamming contingent led by that Roger DiLuigi guy on that one poll, he'd have a better case. As it stands, he doesn't.

The other examples are also less black-and-white than they seem. Palutena has legitimately forayed her Uprising appearance into being a popular character in multiple regions, and if she hadn't, Sakurai's involvement is still in her favor. Mewtwo would have an incredibly solid case to come back even if he weren't being promoted in the new games, although being man-of-the-hour in Pokemon (and Fire Emblem) has actually been a factor (the only place where it really has). Shulk has less going for him than those two, but what he does have, he doesn't have because his franchise is new, he has because his series is noteworthy amid a slew of under-the-radar new franchises no one bothers to mention.
 

TheLastJinjo

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.......So while it's easily one of the best Zelda games in your opinion and mine, it's not outright iconic enough to appear in Smash Bros. based on legacy alone. That's all I'm really trying to say, I guess.
So then let's base it off of that and not recency. I think Skull Kid won't get in because the spot should be save for MAIN characters of the overall series. So far we have them all. I do think that if we had a fifth rep it would be somebody who isn't, in which case I think Majora's Mask deserves a character for being such a memorable Zelda game and would be representing THAT Zelda game since Link & Zelda represent all, Ganondorf represents Ocarina, and Toon Link represents Young & Toon games.

But, having a fifth Zelda rep is just pointless in my opinion.

I'd like to point out that your example of Skull Kid is mainly valid not due to him being an old character, but because he's comparatively unimportant when looking at the Zelda characters in Smash.
That's what I was trying to get across.
 

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Smash Brothers doesn't really follow canon. Not to mention he weilds Majora's Mask, the main villain and icon of the game.
I know it doesn't follow canon. But the fact of the matter is, he wasn't that important in the game. Majora's Mask was the main villain, and it just used Skull Kid as a vessel. It's just a Skull Kid.

He hasn't done anything prominent!?!?
He had a major role in one game (as a pawn that was unimportant to the game, which will probably be why Ghirahim won't get in), and two very unimportant parts in OoT and TP. By that logic, then we should add the Happy Masks Salesman. He was in two games, with a huge role in one of them, so why not?

Why does being more relevant matter? This is Nintendo's Greatest, not Nintendo's Latest. Recency is no where near what matters the most. It matters, but not enough to get freaking Shulk in over Issac.
Yeah, but both recency and relevancy are still major factors. You can be relevant, but not be recent, prime examples would be Lucas and Ness: relevant to their franchise due to it being small and being in Smash, but yet hasn't been around in a game for years.

With Zelda, it's always making more and more games, with more Zelda characters being left in the dust. Ghirahim, Midna, Zant, Skull Kid, Vaati. With the exception of Ghirahim, none of them are recent. And with so many games Zelda comes out with, these characters just get left behind, and it makes them irrelevant to their franchise. They're just one- or two-timers.
 

TheLastJinjo

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Shulk over Issac is "muh recency" however you look at it.

What about in Sheik's case?
He only appeared in only 2 two games, one being the original and the other being the 3DS version.
She is Zelda and Zelda is in every game. Not to mention she's attached to a veteran that isn't leaving.

I know it doesn't follow canon. But the fact of the matter is, he wasn't that important in the game. Majora's Mask was the main villain, and it just used Skull Kid as a vessel. It's just a Skull Kid.
Again, he wears the mask and is still a main character regardless.


He had a major role in one game (as a pawn that was unimportant to the game, which will probably be why Ghirahim won't get in), and two very unimportant parts in OoT and TP. By that logic, then we should add the Happy Masks Salesman. He was in two games, with a huge role in one of them, so why not?
Was he depicted as a main character? Was he even in the advertising on the boxes and artwork? Regardless that he was a pawn, he was still a main character in Majora's Mask combined with it's main villian.


Yeah, but both recency and relevancy are still major factors. You can be relevant, but not be recent, prime examples would be Lucas and Ness: relevant to their franchise due to it being small and being in Smash, but yet hasn't been around in a game for years.
They are relevant to their franchise because it's small? What?
 

Godzillathewonderdog

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Last time I cheacked Majora's Mask was the least successful console Zelda game next to Four Swords Adventures. The game has a cult following now, but it's not as big many other Zelda games.
 

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What about in Sheik's case?
He only appeared in only 2 two games, one being the original OoT and the other being the 3DS version.
Well, I think with Sheik, being in the new 3DS OoT, and having a major part in the game still, she's still relevant. But I think, especially in Brawl, there were a few factors: One, the rough draft of Sheik for TP, that I assume Sakurai could have worked with.

Two, she is a part of Zelda. Whether it be TP Zelda, SS Zelda, or a new one, Zelda in Smash represents all Zeldas. If people think Sheik should be out because she was only in one game, therefore not being relevant, then take away Zelda's specials. They were all in OoT, not even used by her, so they incorporated those moves and Sheik into Zelda's moveset.

In Brawl, we saw nothing different. Her magic from OoT (Link's magic), and Sheik. So I believe the Zelda in Smash represents all major parts of Zelda: her magical attacks, her goddess-like abilities (through Din's Fire, Farore's Wind, and Nayru's Love), and Sheik. She's everything Zelda is known for: A magical princess, a goddess (reincarnation of one), and an alter-ego.
 

CrusherMania1592

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If you're talking about Aeron and Zael, they are not from Xenoblade. Aeron's from Pandora's Tower and Zael is from The Last Story.
Whoops, my bad then. This is what I get for being away from games for too long :p


DLC fits for characters that only have a one-time role, but are very popular, ones like Ghirahim and Zoroark.
Now THAT is something I can get behind. People who are/were popular, but they're aren't recurring characters in a series could make DLC. The question is would Sakurai actually do it?
Popularity :p
Midna and Skull Kid says hi, but they didn't make Brawl and Melee...
 

Scoliosis Jones

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So he needs "muh recency?". Why do you need to be more relevant if you're already from one of the most iconic Zelda games ever? (also he was in Twilight Princess.)


Was Wart a popular character from the best Mario game or even remembered by most (not to mention this is just a reskin of Doki Doki Panic.) This is a bad comparison.


So they deserve a better chance because they are newer? "Muh recency". Seriously, saying it makes NO sense is really exaggerating.
The Skull Kid in question is the form he appeared in in Majora's Mask. The appearance in Twilight Princess helps in hardly anyway to the point that it's basically irrelevant.

Wart was certainly not from the most popular Mario game. However, saying Majora's Mask is the best Zelda game is completely opinion. So that point is invalid because it's only opinion.

As others have said, Skull Kid or any character from that far back have basically zero chance unless their popularity or importance to a series are as potent as K.Rool for example. Skull Kid is not even close.
I'm not bashing your point here, but I'm fairly sure Mewtwo has always been popular.

Regardless; both Isaac and Shulk are deserving of a spot. Golden Sun's a very underrated series and one of the most popular IPs not yet given fair representation in Smash, and Operation Rainfall was a huge movement that showed the power of the internet and the fans.

Why can't we have both?
I agree. Mewtwo has always been popular. However, his chances for Smash skyrocketed since he got the Mega Evolution, so a lot of his Smash Popularity (or his popularity in general) was boosted because of it.

I think some users on here believe that I have the notion that only new characters get in. That's not true. However, think of it this way. We've never seen a character from an established series get in if they aren't substantially important. This is why right now, if your name isn't Roy or Chrom, you probably aren't getting into Smash Bros. Or if your name isn't Mewtwo, you're not the new Pokemon.

For example, why (at this moment in time) would Lyn get added to Fire Emblem over a lord that is new, or destroys her in popularity? She wouldn't. Because it wouldn't make sense. While Nintendo allows Sakurai freedom to pick who he wants, be damn sure that at the end of the day, Nintendo likely has Veto Power. If Sakurai picked a load of characters out of nowhere with borderline ****ty reasoning, I'm positive Nintendo would tell him no.

Again, another example. Without any reason to do so, Sakurai adds Wart. There are no re-releases planned for Mario Bros. 2. Why the **** would Nintendo be okay with that? They wouldn't be.

Smash, at it's core, is created to make money. Money is made by giving the fans what they want, while keeping things rational. There are particular characters that will most likely never get in unless there is a heavy focus placed upon them, whether it's a remake, or something else. It's just common sense for business and marketing.

On the flip side, characters that play supremely important roles to a series (like K.Rool), could likely get in because of a combo of popualrity and the potential to make Nintendo a **** ton of money. This is a big reason why I believe that the "leak" is true, because if Smash 4 turns out to have the chance to have a match up of Mario v. Sonic v. Mega Man v. Pac-Man, many many many many many people are probably going to poop themselves.
 

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Shulk over Issac is "muh recency" however you look at it.
No, it's not. Not to mention that term is getting old.

Last time I cheacked Majora's Mask was the least successful console Zelda game next to Four Swords Adventures. The game has a cult following now, but it's not as big many other Zelda games.
To be honest, the reason most people like it so much is because it strays away from the norm of what you'd expect from a Legend of Zelda title.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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Xenoblade has an advantage over Golden Sun because of the fact that at this point, Xenoblade (or at least a spiritual successor) are in the works and is expanding. Golden Sun right now is not planning a sequel, and nobody really knows when it will get one.

Again, money. Advertise a series that can create more money. It's marketing.
 

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Saturn, what I said about Ness and Lucas can be better explained.

There were only like 3 Earthbound games. And now it's basically dead, to put it harshly. Ness and Lucas were in 2 and 3, respectively. Being in the more recent Earthbound titles, being important to the game, and not being left in the dust due to there not being any more games to follow, made them relevant to the franchise. Because it's so small, they're still relevant to the franchise, because no other game has come out after it.
 

BKupa666

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I'm seeing K. Rool come up in relation to still having a chance because he's supremely important, and I feel compelled to remind people that he's supremely important in part due to recurring in virtually every DK game up through 2008. His situation is not remotely similar to that of Skull Kid or Wart, and wouldn't be even if those two were as popular as he is.

Also, retro characters laugh at the fan-fabricated notion that "Nintendo would intervene if Sakurai put in non-recent characters." Granted, the entire roster isn't made up of retro characters, but no one is asking for that...except that one fake leaker responsible for the steaming mound of "Smash Bros. Memories" crap.
 
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