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Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

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Morbi

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Yaaarg why doesn't anyone get the whole Link thing? The playable character Toon Link can be WW, ST, PH, whoever kid Link. He represents all of them, just as regular Link reps, OoT, TP, SS, etc...
He represents all Cat-Eyed Links. However, he is literally Wind Waker Link. The baton taunt and Pirate Ship stage should have been enough. Obviously Sakurai had to spell it out this time around and reveal Link during the HD remastering of Wind Waker.
 

Bajef8

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All Toads are iconic. Sakurai will most likely pick Red Toad as the default. Name it TOAD. The iconic yellow or green or whatever Toad will be represented through a pallet swap. What has come over you. ONE picture of Peaches old move and you blatantly deny the POSSIBILITY of Toad? Really? I thought you were a little more intelligent than that. One little picture has NO relevance whatsoever. No relevance to my perspective. No relevance to the opposite perspective. It is just a picture. WAIT until OFFICIAL confirmation from Sora Ltd. before you start throwing around arbitrary statements.

We are both using logic. There is no right or wrong here. So give it a rest. Toad IS the most likely Mario rep in my opinion. You can think it is Bowser Jr. all you want.
But all your arguments talk about THE Toad (the one Peach uses as a move), yet now you change everything and say all we need is any ole token Toad and it's fine.
 

N3ON

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Just as I didn't find it weird to have both Wind Waker Link and Spirit Tracks Link coexisting... :/
What about Melee Link and Young Link? They not only co-existed in the same roster, they were the same character. At least WW Link and ST Link are different Links.

Ya know...I actually can't think of a more worldly recognised Nintendo character that currently hasn't been playable in Smash, than Toad.

Yeah, I'm obviously biased but I mean seriously; try and name one. Someone everyone recognises?

Dixie Kong and Meowth are arguably the only others I can think of that compete with that level of fame; Dixie because she's one of the few strong, non sexualised female protagonists and DK was huge and Meowth because at one point the Pokemon franchise conquered the world, and the anime was a huge part of that.

Any others?


EDIT: Oh noes, I'm too sloes. x_x
 

Arcadenik

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Notice that the North American version of the Super Mario 3D World website isn't available yet... but the Japanese version is already available. What if when Sakurai confirms Toad as a playable character, could there be a link to the English website for Super Mario 3D World? :confused:
 

TumblrFamous

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All Toads are iconic. Sakurai will most likely pick Red Toad as the default. Name it TOAD. The iconic yellow or green or whatever Toad will be represented through a pallet swap. What has come over you. ONE picture of Peaches old move and you blatantly deny the POSSIBILITY of Toad? Really? I thought you were a little more intelligent than that. One little picture has NO relevance whatsoever. No relevance to my perspective. No relevance to the opposite perspective. It is just a picture. WAIT until OFFICIAL confirmation from Sora Ltd. before you start throwing around arbitrary statements.

We are both using logic. There is no right or wrong here. So give it a rest. Toad IS the most likely Mario rep in my opinion. You can think it is Bowser Jr. all you want.
I find Jr. to be the most likely rep. Toad seems to have his role in Smash set. Bowser Jr. is gaining more and more prominence as a character. I think he would add variety to the Mario cast more than any other possible rep. But again, everything is just an opinion.
 

Bajef8

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He represents all Cat-Eyed Links. However, he is literally Wind Waker Link. The baton taunt and Pirate Ship stage should have been enough. Obviously Sakurai had to spell it out this time around and reveal Link during the HD remastering of Wind Waker.
I mean he represents Link in Brawl with the Gale Boomerang, so I guess you have a point. But you still understand what I'm saying about the Links I hope. 2 Links is important to a Zelda franchise, but they shouldn't be known in Smash as a certain Zelda game's Link. They are just Link period. Regardless of what items Sakurai chooses to implement for that character.
 

Morbi

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But all your arguments talk about THE Toad (the one Peach uses as a move), yet now you change everything and say all we need is any ole token Toad and it's fine.
No. I told you on numerous occasions that I view the Toad that is in Peach's snatch as a generic Toad. I want THE Toad playable. Not a generic Toad. If Sakurai stated that Peach is hiding THE Toad in her skirt, I will not perpetuate this argument. However, I am fairly certain that he has never said anything alluding to the possibility. I always said we need the old Toad, I simply pointed out the correlation of Toad being a main and playable character in the newer Mario Bros. games. You are the one that assumed I wanted Blue Toad. I never even implied that. I just want THE Toad.
 

Curious Villager

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What about Melee Link and Young Link? They not only co-existed in the same roster, they were the same character. At least WW Link and ST Link are different Links.

That was all the more reason why Wind Waker Link and Spirit Tracks Link co-existing wasn't anything out of the ordinary. Especially as you said, Sakurai included playable characters who literally are the same people before. :rolleyes:
 

Bajef8

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The most iconic color of Yoshi is Green, Toad is the most iconic in red spots.

It's just doesn't feel right if the canon colors for Yoshi and Toad were different.

Thank you! This is what I'm saying. They aren't gonna just throw in some random colored Toad, they'll used the most widely recognized coloring of him. And he's been shown as a move for Peach. There's no problem saying I think this deconfirms him, that's very sound logic.
 

Morbi

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That was all the more reason why Wind Waker Link and Spirit Tracks Link coexisting wasn't anything out of the ordinary. Especially as you said, Sakurai included playable characters who literally are the same people before. :rolleyes:
This is enough evidence (as though we even needed any) that Toad can be playable while Peach has her dspecial. There. Problem solved.
 

Arcadenik

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What about Melee Link and Young Link? They not only co-existed in the same roster, they were the same character. At least WW Link and ST Link are different Links.
Shh... there's a reason selective amnesia was invented. :troll:

But yes, it shouldn't matter if the playable Toad and the unplayable Toad (who is part of Peach's moveset) are the same Toad (キノピオ) in SSB4.
 

Bajef8

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No. I told you on numerous occasions that I view the Toad that is in Peach's snatch as a generic Toad. I want THE Toad playable. Not a generic Toad. If Sakurai stated that Peach is hiding THE Toad in her skirt, I will not perpetuate this argument. However, I am fairly certain that he has never said anything alluding to the possibility. I always said we need the old Toad, I simply pointed out the correlation of Toad being a main and playable character in the newer Mario Bros. games. You are the one that assumed I wanted Blue Toad. I never even implied that. I just want THE Toad.
Again you assumed there. The guy with the Duck Hunt dog avatar said it should be Blue Toad I believe. You also made the statement saying that Toad's color didn't matter AKA it doesn't matter which Toad, just throw one in. I'm saying that THE Toad was shown, cuz that is THE Toad's colors. Are you saying there are multiple Toads with the red dot blue jacket?
 

Morbi

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Again you assumed there. The guy with the Duck Hunt dog avatar said it should be Blue Toad I believe. You also made the statement saying that Toad's color didn't matter AKA it doesn't matter which Toad, just throw one in. I'm saying that THE Toad was shown, cuz that is THE Toad's colors. Are you saying there are multiple Toads with the red dot blue jacket?
I thought there were multiple Toads with red dots. That is irrelevant. I am supporting THE Toad. Not Blue Toad. I don't really think the color matters because all will be select-able. Why don't you adress the premise that Young Link and Adult Link were both playable. Why don't you address the logic that you can play as 4 Mario's?

I guess that picture of Peach's D-Special de-confirms Toad. IT IS TOTALLY LOGICAL TO COUNT A CHARACTER OUT BECAUSE OF ONE MOVE. Just like everyone counted out Toon Link because of one cameo. Huh?
 

AEMehr

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-____- red dot blue jacket Toad is THE Toad. Just because Yellow/Blue Toad appeared in a high selling Mario =/= those Toads are iconic by any means at all. The main red dot blue jacket Toad is the iconic Toad, the one people know.
Pretty sure Chrono meant that "The" Toad's primary color could end up becoming solely Blue with all of these playable appearances it has right now.
 

YoshiandToad

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Still up Peach's dress.
Thank you! This is what I'm saying. They aren't gonna just throw in some random colored Toad, they'll used the most widely recognized coloring of him. And he's been shown as a move for Peach. There's no problem saying I think this deconfirms him, that's very sound logic.
You're entitled to believe this. However, let's be on honest Sakurai's been ridiculously tricky this time round: A boxing ring with no sign of any Little Mac symbols, Toon Link in the background and then being playable, the whole Ridley holes thing, and saying some moves are to be changed on Peach.

Honestly I'm still not convinced Toad is out, because frankly that moveset change could be as simple as changing Toad Counters colour palette to Blue Toad.
 

Morbi

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You're entitled to believe this. However, let's be on honest Sakurai's been ridiculously tricky this time round: A boxing ring with no sign of any Little Mac symbols, Toon Link in the background and then being playable, the whole Ridley holes thing, and saying some moves are to be changed on Peach.

Honestly I'm still not convinced Toad is out, because frankly that moveset change could be as simple as changing Toad Counters colour palette to Blue Toad.
I wouldn't count Toad out if Peach pulled him out of her snatch with a sign that says, "THE ICONIC TOAD" and an arrow pointing directly at him. It isn't enough to dismiss how feasible he would be as a potential playable character.
 

Espio264

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I don't remember ever trying this, and I'm too lazy to get up and turn my tv on, but when you changed Peach's costume color, did Toad's color change as well? Or did she always whip out the same little dude?

That last sentence is gonna get me into trouble.
 

Morbi

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I don't remember ever trying this, and I'm too lazy to get up and turn my tv on, but when you changed Peach's costume color, did Toad's color change as well? Or did she always whip out the same little dude?

That last sentence is gonna get me into trouble.
It is always the same Toad.
 

Arcadenik

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I hope Peach's Toad is replaced with Toadsworth... so that way the iconic Toad is playable... and his palette swaps include the Blue Toad and Yellow Toad but... *sigh*
 

Bajef8

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I thought there were multiple Toads with red dots. That is irrelevant. I am supporting THE Toad. Not Blue Toad. I don't really think the color matters because all will be select-able. Why don't you adress the premise that Young Link and Adult Link were both playable. Why don't you address the logic that you can play as 4 Mario's?

I guess that picture of Peach's D-Special de-confirms Toad. IT IS TOTALLY LOGICAL TO COUNT A CHARACTER OUT BECAUSE OF ONE MOVE. Just like everyone counted out Toon Link because of one cameo. Huh?
Again you're missing the whole point of the Toon Link argument, I though you read everything people posted. They didn't but THE iconic representation of Toon Link (green, pointy hat, etc...) in the background. They put a cel-shaded Link in a conductor's outfit in the background. They DID put the iconic representation of Toad (red dots, blue jacket) as Peach's B move. It's her neutral special btw dammit lol. Please correct yourself in the future. It makes this old Peach Melee main angry.

The Young and regular Link being playable is in no way the same thing either. For the 1000th time, representing Adult & Child Link in Smash is important to do because that is a primary part, having an older and younger Link, of the Zelda series. You can't just use the fact that OoT happened to be the odd game that contained both an Adult and Child Link. Whoop-de-do is it was the same person, look at Doc. It would be strange for Toad to be playable, and yet Peach whips out an exact copy of a playable character for her B move.
 

ChronoBound

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I like Toad, and personally I don't care what color Toad is. Toad is Toad to me. Whether Red, Yellow, or Blue.
 

jaytalks

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What's it that makes Pac-Man's new design ugly and creepy, exactly? :confused:

It adds unnecessary details to a great design. No one was asking what brand of shoe Pac-Man was wearing or how his shoe stays on. And his large disney eyes make him look weird, since they make him look more human, which is unnecessary. No one had any problem connecting with Pac-Man prior.

Essentially, they took a great and iconic design and made it look terrible. Do whatever you want for a TV show. Leave the video games alone.
 

YoshiandToad

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Still up Peach's dress.
I don't remember ever trying this, and I'm too lazy to get up and turn my tv on, but when you changed Peach's costume color, did Toad's color change as well? Or did she always whip out the same little dude?

That last sentence is gonna get me into trouble.
I played as 'Daisy' Peach today, so I can confirm it's always that Toad.

Actually while we're on the subject when Kirby copied Peach he also gained a Toad. So two Toads can exist simultaneously without resulting to duping Peach up within Smash already. As far as I was aware whilst Kirby can copy skills, he cannot reproduce living beings.

I still believe he's one of the more deserving and iconic Nintendo characters not in Smash and apparetly I'm not alone.
 
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I hate Waluigi as a character anyway and seriously doubt he'll ever make anything but AT. He's never once been featured in a main branch game for Mario or Warioware. His inception was literally because Nintendo needed a doubles partner for Wario in Mario Tennis. Seriously what a cheap knock off addition of a character. "Hmmmm, well we have Wario. We need evil Luigi. Let's just name him Waluigi." -___-

He literally only shows up cuz Wario is like, "Yo dawg. I need that mean tennis swing you got there." And Waluigi is like, "YES! I get to show up for something regardless of how minor a role it is!"

I'm going to say once again why the "doubles partner" logic the haters have come up with is nothing but bull****.

-Waluigi was created specifically to serve as a rival to Luigi.
-Wario did not need a partner made for him. There were multiple options; Bowser ("the enemy of my enemy is my ally"), Giant Spear Man (followed Wario home after the true ending of Wario Land 2), Tatanga (One of Wario's lackeys; was sent to distract Mario by kidnapping Daisy so that Wario could take over his castle), Kurosu, Rikki, Sabasa, one of the Three Little Pigheads, or Pako (other lackeys of Wario), or even Foreman Spike, considering he was still around. Pretty sure a Wario/Spike partnership would make a lot of sense.
-"Doubles Partners" doesn't make sense with other playable character choices. Who's Yoshi's Partner for example? Is it Baby Mario? Is it Birdo? Both are given nods to Yoshi in-game....
-There was going to be an evil Peach as well. This "Warupichi" would have broken the whole "doubles" logic since there would have been three evil counterparts. Miyamoto did not allow the creation of the evil Peach (but found Waluigi acceptable).

As for "Let's just name him Waluigi", that really shows you don't know where his name comes from.
Wario's name is a combination of the words "Warui" (meaning "bad" or "evil") and Mario. So from Warui Mario you get Wario.
Waluigi's name comes from "Warui" and "Ruiji", how Luigi's name is spelled in the Japanese language. So we get Warui Ruiji to Waruiji, which becomes "Waluigi".


I don't care that you hate Waluigi, but when people say stupid and false things about him, I don't allow it to go unpunished.
 

Morbi

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Again you're missing the whole point of the Toon Link argument, I though you read everything people posted. They didn't but THE iconic representation of Toon Link (green, pointy hat, etc...) in the background. They put a cel-shaded Link in a conductor's outfit in the background. They DID put the iconic representation of Toad (red dots, blue jacket) as Peach's B move. It's her neutral special btw dammit lol. Please correct yourself in the future. It makes this old Peach Melee main angry.

The Young and regular Link being playable is in no way the same thing either. For the 1000th time, representing Adult & Child Link in Smash is important to do because that is a primary part, having an older and younger Link, of the Zelda series. You can't just use the fact that OoT happened to be the odd game that contained both an Adult and Child Link. Whoop-de-do is it was the same person, look at Doc. It would be strange for Toad to be playable, and yet Peach whips out an exact copy of a playable character for her B move.
Yeah. I don't play Peach. I assumed it was like Lucario, Marth, Ike, Roy, Fox, Wolf, or Falco's. Sorry. Counter = dspecial to me.

So let me ask you this. 4 Toon Link's fighting on the Spirit Tracks level is not only fine... but normal. However, a Toad fighting a Peach isn't going to happen because... actually you didn't give me a reason.
 

?????????????

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I have no idea WHY, but...

What if they're pushing for Blue Toad to BE the new iconic Toad? I mean, I know that sounds weird, but...when was the last time Iconic Toad was in a Mario adventure? Not Sunshine, Galaxies, NSMB (playable appearances, anyway) or Super Mario 3D World.

Once again, this is all just hypothetical.
 

Bajef8

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Yeah, you're right. That is what I was saying.
Right, but I'm saying that they just throw a Toad or 2 in those games for the sake of having 4 playables that look different. They can't use regular Toad because he's got red and blue. Red, Blue, Green and Yellow are always used to represent playable characters in 4 man games. Hence why they threw in a blue and yellow Toad. Keeps that true. Same with the upcoming game. They were missing a color, so they picked a blue Toad, not yellow since Mario turns yellow with the cat thing on.
 

Espio264

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But in most of the games, (the one that immediately comes to mind is Mario 64) aren't all of the Toads, the multiple Toads that are throughout the castle entrance and in front of most of the paintings, dressed like THE Toad. So couldn't the Toad that Peach has be A Toad, and the Toad that is a possible playable character be THE Toad. Or you know, vice versa?

0.jpg
 

SuperBrawler

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But in most of the games, (the one that immediately comes to mind is Mario 64) aren't all of the Toads, the multiple Toads that are throughout the castle entrance and in front of most of the paintings, dressed like THE Toad. So couldn't the Toad that Peach has be A Toad, and the Toad that is a possible playable character be THE Toad. Or you know, vice versa?

View attachment 2918
Yes.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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I really don't think we're getting Toad. But that's just me. I honestly think they would use the iconic Red spot Toad, as that is the one that i'm pretty sure is in Mario Kart 8 and has been in basically every title besides the NSMB and such. That's my take though.

I mean really, if Ridley appeared as a stage hazard, I think it's fair to say that Ridley wouldn't be playable besides that. It just wouldn't be a great idea to have a character appear non-playable in one area, and playable in another. Again, just my take.

I'm going to post a little something I made in a few minutes. I'd like to get some opinions on it.
 
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