Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[God Robert's Cousin]

The mere matter of fact is that Mewtwo is one of the most well known Pokemon that is playing a major promotional role in what has been the most preordered set of Pokemon games in existence in perhaps what is going to be the most dramatic Pokemon generation shift known to man, along with being the star of two movies, the most well known legendary, and the most requested character to appear in Smash Bros. once again. He's a big name with a big lifespan coming from a big series.

The other is Roy. He had the most popular Japanese Fire Emblem game over 10 years ago and hasn't played a notable role in the series since.

I think Roy would share a trailer with Mewtwo, but otherwise I don't see Roy as returning in the first place.

 

[Morbi]

I'm personally not expecting a trailer for Mewtwo. He is afterall just a veteran. I think a lot of people just hook unto the idea because we all know it'd look ****ing amazing, but I doubt they'd put too much emphasis on a returning veteran, even if he was missing from one game.

Really? I am going to have to disagree. Sakurai said Newcomers, but Mewtwo is missing a lot of fundamentals from Brawl. The Final Smash being the most significant. Wii Fit Trainer's trailer showed her Final Smash. Mewtwo has never had one. Not to mention he is one of the most popular Smash requests in general (East and West). I am not saying it is going to happen. I am just saying that it is an idea to consider. Sakurai might break the rules. ESPECIALLY if he changed Mewtwo's move-set up a little. As I mentioned earlier, there are millions that have never played Melee but played Brawl. Probably a couple hundred thousand that played neither, but plan on buying Smash 4. To not make a Mewtwo trailer... would be an injustice.

Look at it this way. Common consensus is that Pokemon isn't going to get a new rep. That means no trailer for the SECOND biggest Nintendo game. I think Pokemon is the best selling hand-held game too. With X and Y right around the corner, why one Earth would Sakurai not make a trailer and cross-promote the games? He is just as good as any newcomer.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Like a Jigglypuff that won't shut up, the Jigglypuff analogies are annoying to continuously see.

Aw, let Morbid have the Jigglypuff shtick. They only take up, what, seconds of our time?

It's either that or more likes nobody actually deserves.

 

[Deleted member]

Mewtwo, Roy, and Dr. Mario should share a trailer.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Mewtwo, Roy, and Dr. Mario should share a trailer.

Yeah, I don't think so. Mewtwo is the only veteran worthy of a trailer now.

 

[Morbi]

Aw, let Morbid have the Jigglypuff shtick. They only take up, what, seconds of our time?

It's either that or more likes nobody actually deserves.

This. Like a Jigglypuff minding its own business and being brutally attacked by a vicious Entei.

Good afternoon all, hope you're all doing well. Glad to see last night didn't go out of hand after I left, you all deserve a round of applause.

So our current topic is the next veteran announced? I want it to be Mewtwo more than anything, it seems so perfect, but then again it also makes sense to announce Jigglypuff thanks to its new type, and even with that, it makes sense to announce Pokemon Trainer thanks to his anime premiers in a couple of days and his pokemon are available from the get-go in X and Y. .....Can't we just have them all?

Why do I always miss the good stuff? Like a Jigglypuff late for the bus!

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Really? I am going to have to disagree. Sakurai said Newcomers, but Mewtwo is missing a lot of fundamentals from Brawl. The Final Smash being the most significant. Wii Fit Trainer's trailer showed her Final Smash. Mewtwo has never had one. Not to mention he is one of the most popular Smash requests in general (East and West). I am not saying it is going to happen. I am just saying that it is an idea to consider. Sakurai might break the rules. ESPECIALLY if he changed Mewtwo's move-set up a little. As I mentioned earlier, there are millions that have never played Melee but played Brawl. Probably a couple hundred thousand that played neither, but plan on buying Smash 4. To not make a Mewtwo trailer... would be an injustice.

Look at it this way. Common consensus is that Pokemon isn't going to get a new rep. That means no trailer for the SECOND biggest Nintendo game. I think Pokemon is the best selling hand-held game too. With X and Y right around the corner, why one Earth would Sakurai not make a trailer and cross-promote the games? He is just as good as any newcomer.

Yeah, you've got a point, especially about the whole Final Smash deal. I'm not sure if he needs a full on CGI trailer though. Maybe just a quick gameplay trailer would be enough? I sure wouldn't mind him getting a CGI trailer like the other newcomers, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[NickerBocker]

Mewtwo, Jigglypuff and Lucario are all relevant in XY, so it could be any of them. If theyre all in, id like to see a trailer of Mewtwo and Lucario duking it out, going mega, and doing some heavy stuff. Then it turns out to be a dream because Jigglypuff put them to sleep

...With marker on their face...

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Mewtwo, Jigglypuff and Lucario are all relevant in XY, so it could be any of them. If theyre all in, id like to see a trailer of Mewtwo and Lucario duking it out, going mega, and doing some heavy stuff. Then it turns out to be a dream because Jigglypuff put them to sleep

...With marker on their face...

Don't forget Pokémon Trainer, if anything he's the guy who has the most involvement with what's happening with Pokémon right now.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Mewtwo, Jigglypuff and Lucario are all relevant in XY, so it could be any of them. If theyre all in, id like to see a trailer of Mewtwo and Lucario duking it out, going mega, and doing some heavy stuff. Then it turns out to be a dream because Jigglypuff put them to sleep

...With marker on their face...

I love it

 

[Morbi]

I love it

This reveal would have been better than all of the current reveals. If we didn't get Peach and Toon Link in the same month... I might have actually thought that they would reveal 2 Pokemon together. Like a Jigglypuff with 5 apples that gives away 2 apples to another Jigglypuff and 1 apple to a different Jigglypuff resulting in how many apples left?

 

[Gune]

Mewtwo, Jigglypuff and Lucario are all relevant in XY, so it could be any of them. If theyre all in, id like to see a trailer of Mewtwo and Lucario duking it out, going mega, and doing some heavy stuff. Then it turns out to be a dream because Jigglypuff put them to sleep

...With marker on their face...

I approve of this.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The next reveal would probably be Jigglypuff, to represent the Fairy type in X/Y

Or it could be Lucario to represent the mega evolutions, if not Mewtwo.

 

[Morbi]

Or it could be Lucario to represent the mega evolutions, if not Mewtwo.

Maybe even Pokemon trainer to represent the mega evolutions, if not Lucario or Mewtwo.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Crossing my fingers to not be Lucario, because if Lucario is confirmed, I believe we will have no cuts, but there's Snake who still still is a mixed bag. So we could only have one cut.

 

[Gune]

3 cuts, Ike, Snake, and Lucario..
So simple!

So simple my ass...

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Or it could be Lucario to represent the mega evolutions, if not Mewtwo.

Or Sakurai could:

1. Reveal another Pokemon to give us the WTF feeling
2. Skip Pokemon because we all expect it

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Maybe even Pokemon trainer to represent the mega evolutions, if not Lucario or Mewtwo.

Don't you think that it would be unfair knowing that only Charizard can mega evolve, while Ivysaur and Squirtle aren't even able to do that yet? From what I understand, only fully evolved Pokemon, and Pokemon who CAN'T use the Eviolite, can mega evolve.

 

[BluePikmin11]

So simple my ***...

If Pokemon has 5 reps.. Which I personally hope doesn't happen.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Maybe even Pokemon trainer to represent the mega evolutions, if not Lucario or Mewtwo.

Yeah, as if Venusaur wouldn't be awkward enough given he's a big chunk of fat, but he got even wider and bigger with his mega evolution! Let's get him in! And Venusaur is my favorite Pokémon, so don't say I be hatin'.

Also, they should totally make a Mega Jigglypuff, screw Wigglytuff, we know where the real deal is. Mega Jigglypuff could simply be the Karate 'Puff costume from Melee.

 

[Morbi]

Don't you think that it would be unfair knowing that only Charizard can mega evolve, while Ivysaur and Squirtle aren't even able to do that yet? From what I understand, only fully evolved Pokemon, and Pokemon who CAN'T use the Eviolite, can mega evolve.

I just meant that they are promoting Mega Evolutions with the Kanto starters.

If Pokemon has 5 reps.. Which I personally hope doesn't happen.

That hurt me in my Jigglypuffs.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

If Pokemon has 5 reps.. Which I personally hope doesn't happen.

Funny, Melee had "5" Mushroom Kingdom reps, so seeing the Pokemon franchise have that many reps wouldn't be that farfetched.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Funny, Melee had "5" Mushroom Kingdom reps, so seeing the Pokemon franchise have that many reps wouldn't be that farfetched.

I wish Dr. Mario was considered his own franchise. :/

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

The main 3 will probably have 5 characters each

1. Mario got a multitude of newcomers in Melee, didn't in Brawl. Chances are they might see a newcomer now in SSB4.
2. With each game the Zelda roster has had at least one newcomer.
3. Pokemon always gets at least one newcomer too. The two from Melee were cut. One, if not both, from Brawl could have the same effect. New ones come in all the time.

 

[Morbi]

Yeah, as if Venusaur wouldn't be awkward enough given he's a big chunk of fat, but he got even wider and bigger with his mega evolution! Let's get him in! And Venusaur is my favorite Pokémon, so don't say I be hatin'.

Also, they should totally make a Mega Jigglypuff, screw Wigglytuff, we know where the real deal is. Mega Jigglypuff could simply be the Karate 'Puff costume from Melee.

Wigglytuff's Mega Evolution IS Jigglypuff! Don't you see?!

Funny, Melee had "5" Mushroom Kingdom reps, so seeing the Pokemon franchise have that many reps wouldn't be that farfetched.

He wasn't alluding to the validity. He just doesn't want it to happen.

 

[Gune]

If Pokemon has 5 reps.. Which I personally hope doesn't happen.

It HAS to happen.

 

[Frostwraith]

I've said this before, all Smash Pokémon could all return thanks to X/Y giving them new quirks. Another important point is how X/Y doesn't seem to have a Lucario equivalent. No Gen VI Pokémon is being prominently used for advertising, but Mewtwo, Lucario and the Kanto starters are due to all of them receiving Mega Evolutions. Jigglypuff could easily have a revamped moveset with Fairy-type moves, just like how Pit got weaponry from KI Uprising in his moveset.

 

[BluePikmin11]

5 is personally overrepresentation to me.

 

[Morbi]

I've said this before, all Smash Pokémon could all return thanks to X/Y giving them new quirks. Another important point is how X/Y doesn't seem to have a Lucario equivalent. No Gen VI Pokémon is being prominently used for advertising, but Mewtwo, Lucario and the Kanto starters are due to all of them receiving Mega Evolutions. Jigglypuff could easily have a revamped moveset with Fairy-type moves, just like how Pit got weaponry from KI Uprising in his moveset.

I think Sylveon is supposed to be the Lucario/Zoroark. You are right though. It looks like we have our Pokemon Roster.
1. Jigglypuff
2. Pikachu
3. Mewtwo
4. Pokemon Trainer
5. Lucario

I could see a cut happening. I don't think it will happen though.

 

[jaytalks]

I think the best solution for other gen representation would be Mewtwo to be in either is X form or Y form, and for it to switch between mega forms during the final smash. I know that's not how the mega forms work, but whatever. Smash isn't canon.

I like the Mega Lucario idea. If pokemon got 5 reps I would be fine with that.

Funny, Melee had "5" Mushroom Kingdom reps, so seeing the Pokemon franchise have that many reps wouldn't be that farfetched.

don't you mean farfetch'd?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Complete Misunderstanding Entirely

I love it when people make a paragraph of themselves proving wrong stuff that I never implied or said.

Stop pointing out obvious things I'm fully aware of as if I'm stupid, just because you thought I thought something based on your assumption of what was implied by vague comments.

But as for the rest

• You say Sheriff doesn't fit the criteria for Smash based on your own opinion and that you have to have a fanbase to get in.
• When I said he fits the same criteria I mean he's the best unexpected throwback character unrelated to NES.
• Jumpman sounds like an occupation entirely considering he's a man who jumps. Just like a man who repairs. So I guess Ice Climber is not a character, ammirite? So yeah, Sheriff is the first Nintendo Character.
• When did I say I was smarter. You need to stop looking into insults and claims that aren't there and then complaining about it. A good example would be this entire post.
• Sheriff represents the arcade alone. He's not just a character who had a few arcade games yet mostly represents a series outside the arcade.
• Yes, a guy who makes fun of you for being okay with Semi-Clones is a nice guy when you get to know him.
• So I guess King Kong is more important than Kirby. I mean he led to the creation of Donkey Kong otherwise Kirby wouldn't have existed.
• So Sheriff isn't important even though he's the first Nintendo Character as well as the first Miyamoto character who solely represents the arcade and had 3 cameos as appose to 1? And no he's not as obscure as you make him out to be.
• Card Games & Cartoon Characters are not considered important to Sakurai mind you. Regardless of what they are responsible for.

Also
"Sheriff is a game with a particularly long history, even among other classic Nintendo arcade games." - Melee Trophy Data

if Sheriff was important then his game would have made it on the virtual console

Arcade games don't get releases on VC

 

[MasterOfKnees]

5 is personally overrepresentation to me.

When your franchise's name is either Mario or Pokémon, aka the two biggest gaming franchises to exist, then it isn't.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

He wasn't alluding to the validity. He just doesn't want it to happen.

Considering that the Mario, Pokemon, Legend of Zelda, and Kirby franchises tend to be Nintendo's highest ranking franchises, it stands to reason why they tend to have more reps than any other franchise. However, it wasn't until Brawl that the Kirby series rivaled the Star Fox series, in terms of roster amounts.

 

[Zhadgon]

Seems like a fairly standard and safe roster. I don't necessarily think that there is anything wrong with it. My only problem is with four 3rd party characters. That is more of a personal bias though. I tried to rationalize how 3rd parties are going to work in the franchise. So don't get this wrong. I think the roster is great. I actually think that Lucario will return, and I don't think Shulk is going to be in the game. Those are the only two things I would change. However, I am betting against 3rd party characters. Perhaps somebody can analyze my logic and assess any discrepancies?

I do not think Sonic or Snake will return for Smash 4. Here is why... lets us evaluate how Sakurai treats 3rd party characters. There were no 3rd party characters in his original entries, Smash 64, and Super Smash Brothers Melee. The first game to include 3rd party characters was Brawl. One at the behest of a friend, another due to sheer fan popularity. This time around we already have Mega Man. He correlates to Sonic. He was added due to staggering fan request. We do not know any other 3rd party characters that are going to make it. Most people assert that Sonic and Snake will make a come-back. Others think that Pac-Man has the connections to secure his imminent roster slot. This leaves us with 4 characters.

That isn't so bad. It seems reasonable currently. However, we must look beyond. Smash X is what I will refer to the Smash after Smash 4 and 5. This gets into some subjective territory as Sakurai might not be the creative director on the next project. So a vision change might occur. However, for the sake of discuss, let us assume that Sakurai is on board for Smash X. This is where problems start to occur. Sakurai likes to treat 3rd parties as a special case. Sonic and Snake were both special. Now Mega Man is considerably special. How special would Smash X be if he continued the pattern and followed precedent (for arguments sake assume we get Pac- Man and Mega Man for Smash 4)? This enables the Smash universe to have 6 third party characters.

Obviously 6 3rd party characters is borderline ridiculous when we considering that Sakurai already believes that the roster is feasible currently. At this point, the 3rd party characters will literally be taking up Nintendo roster slots. This isn't at all what Sakurai would want. In fact, I think Pac-Man falls under the "Snake" rule. We might get him in Smash 4 only because of Namco's association and involvement. So Pac-Man in Snake are more like favors or obligations that Sakurai has. Mega Man and Sonic are the 3rd party characters that the fans WANTED, WANT, and WILL WANT. So it is very possible that he might just cut off obligations and keep the 3rd party characters at two per entry (meaning 2 in Smash 4 probably Sonic and Mega Man) and keep the two during Smash X.

It is this logic that leads me to believe that he will drop the 3rd party characters in Brawl in favor of two new 3rd party characters. That helps Smash feel fresh. If Sonic were to be revealed, he would probably be revealed in October. Pretend you are Sakurai. Would you want to take away from October by revealing Sonic after the launch of X and Y. Probably the biggest handheld game of the year? It doesn't seem logical. I guess he might. I wouldn't though.

I apologize for any errors. I just woke up and I was pressured to wrap that up quickly. I have to go help with something. So I didn't have time to fix everything. Just leave me your thoughts on 3rd party characters. I really want to read what people think. I feel like it is a subject that we skip over. We take the easy way out and assume that there is no way Sonic will leave. Or Pac-Man is guaranteed because Namco is co-developing. It is a touchy subject that tends to illicit menial and simple responses.

TL;DR
Jigglypuff

Yeah I know is pretty safe, but actually thinking about the characters added and what they represent it seems they would certainly get a lot of chances, specially because of the high popularity they have and potential moveset.

The thing with 3rd party characters is I don´t think they should be considered a one time only and here is my focus. It seems that every time Sakurai is thinking in adding a 3rd rep from any series he first works really hard in the moveset, after that he starts woking with his team and for the look of it is so much work behind each rep that it seems ludicrous for a normal game developer or game designer would invest so much on it, especially because is not even a main character from Nintendo.

Lets take a look at Sonic his kit resembles a lot of what you can expect about the character it seem that it has a lot of thought behind it, maybe needs a little more work in tweaking his movset but a part from that, Sakurai and his team work it out pretty well even with the time constrain that it have as a last minute inclusion in Brawl.

Now lets take a look to Snake and here is where things get complicated, a lot of people think that Snake is a one time character and I feel this surprising. Why you ask, seriously I think is one of the hardest characters to be implemented in Smash because of the many reasons like Sakurai going against to put real guns in Smash. So Sakurai need to get behind that implementation and think in a completely and unique moveset for Snake that it didn´t feel out of place for the character but being as close as to what you can expect of a soldier in the future with hight tech weapons and stealth attacks, so the fans of Metal Gear and fans of Smash Bros could enjoy playing this character with a lot of arsenal and still work fine without guns, for me and this is my personal thought the amount of time Sakurai put on Snake, work, money, resources, man power and the material gathered for each of his specials is insane and then tweak every single move to perfection so it can be useful in a way, probably did take more times that I can count for each special and work it out so the kit would look awesome, interesting and most important fluent with the character and after all these balance the character with the whole roster. So if I need to say Snake is in the top 5 more complicated characters in Smash and works really well. Finally lets not forget that Snake is among the most used characters and one of the favorites for many people because of his kit and what it represents. So thinking in a way, would you not consider to bring back a character like this after all the work, sweat, blood, tears and fanbase for the next installment of the series? I think Sakurai works really hard for each character he add especially if is thrid party so in the future if the company that is owner of that character would be gladly to lend again his character for future installments in the series.

About Mega Man and this is what make me think that every character and especially if is third party would came back, if I remind correctly the amount work and thought that Sakurai put behind this character is crazy, he said in a interview that it took the same amount of work the implementation of Mega Man in Smash as making again the whole game, when I read that, I was like "I dont even think Sakurai is planning on Mega Man to leave the Smash Series in a long time" would you consider to leave behind a character that has so much work behind so it only be a one time character? I think not and once the game is released probably this character will have a fanbase and be a main character for a lot of people.

So to complete my thought process behind these 3rd party characters is that they have unique kits, take a lot of development, are main stars now in Smash, have a lot of following behind them, are close to Nintendo in some way or form and for being so few I would not think of them as a bother, for example Sonic and Snake only took 5.7% of the roster size compared to the whole cast of Nintendo characters (only counting character slots), now if we make again the math with four 3rd party characters for the new smash it would be 8.90% that take place counting there are 45 characters slot, is not a lot if you think about it, is not even 10% (I´m counting Pac Man, Mega Man, Sonic and Snake).

Shulk is a personal preference is him or Starfy (sorry but I prefer Shulk) and Lucario again I need to make cuts to fit the roster.
.n_n.

 

[Frostwraith]

5 is personally overrepresentation to me.

For the Pokémon franchise? Hell no.

5 Pokémon reps is perfectly fine, given how big the series is in both Japan and outside of it. If we count the DK, Yoshi and Wario sub-series as part of the greater Mario franchise, Nintendo's flagship series as a total of 8 characters. Pokémon having 5 (or 7 if we count PT's Pokémon separately) characters is only fair for Nintendo's #2 franchise.

 

[Morbi]

I think the best solution for other gen representation would be Mewtwo to be in either is X form or Y form, and for it to switch between mega forms during the final smash. I know that's not how the mega forms work, but whatever. Smash isn't canon.

I like the Mega Lucario idea. If pokemon got 5 reps I would be fine with that.

don't you mean farfetch'd?

 

[SonicMario]

I am personally expecting a Sonic and Snake cut. Perhaps a Pokemon Trainer cut. Like an ambitious Jigglypuff.

Snake I think has a possibility of being cut. But I really think Sonic is exempt for plenty of reasons to being cut "just to make things fresh" like you said. If you want to keep things fresh. Then you essentially purge long-standing veterans in favor of newcomers with crazy movesets. I know I know that Sonic is 3rd party and it could very well be different rules. But so far there's no really solid rules on what Sakurai provides for 3rd parties yet. And everyone would be thinking what was in Sakurai's mind to replace Sonic the Hedgehog with whatever other 2nd 3rd party rep made it in the game if he didn't. Even if it was Pac-Man that replaced him you can't say that'd be something people could just let down and say "Ok, that's a fair trade".

Sonic should be kept because of strength of popularity, relevancy (Sonic Lost World, Mario & Sonic 4, etc.), and an ultimate symbol of Sega and Nintendo's current business friendship.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

The logic in cutting Lucario has never been proven explained sufficiently

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I've said this before, all Smash Pokémon could all return thanks to X/Y giving them new quirks. Another important point is how X/Y doesn't seem to have a Lucario equivalent. No Gen VI Pokémon is being prominently used for advertising, but Mewtwo, Lucario and the Kanto starters are due to all of them receiving Mega Evolutions. Jigglypuff could easily have a revamped moveset with Fairy-type moves, just like how Pit got weaponry from KI Uprising in his moveset.

The main problem with the Pokemon Trainer, however, is that only his Charizard is able to mega evolve. Ivysaur and Squirtle can't mega evolve until they become a Venusaur and Blastoise respectively.

 

[BluePikmin11]

The logic in cutting Lucario has never been proven.

To give space for more unique characters?
If Pokemon stays at 4 reps it will most likely be:
1. Pikachu
2. Jigglypuff
3. Pokemon Trainer
4. Mewtwo
So Lucario could get cut.

The main problem with the Pokemon Trainer, however, is that only his Charizard is able to mega evolve. Ivysaur and Squirtle can't mega evolve until they become a Venusaur and Blastoise respectively.

Just don't give them Mega-Evolutions.. Just give them the same Final Smash as Brawl had.