Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

Of them, personally I'd say that (outside of the third Parties) Jigglypuff probably has the hardest case to make for herself compared to the others. If it wasn't for her grandfather clause, she'd have no reason to really stand out from the others. Having said that, her reason is still a good reason, it's just that it's her only argument and that does make her look the weakest against the rest of the crowd.

I agree that Jigglypuff has the hardest case, but I wouldn't say tradition is all that's in her favor. Her new typing could show a lot of potential, and Sakurai could potentially want to expand on that. Of coarse, there's no proof he does, but it's certainly a possibility, and I'd love to see what he'd come up with. Surely, something better than Pound and Puff Up xD

 

[Arcanir]

The thing with the Fairy type is that she's not even used to promote it. She was cast alongside Gardevoir, Sylveon and Marill, and I haven't seen her that much in the advertisements for it while all three of the others (especially Sylveon) have gotten more traction in advertising. Really, I can't say that Fairy Type revives her, especially not to the extent of Mewtwo, Lucario, Pikachu and PT.

Same thing as Ness or Captain Falcon. If you want to claim that Ness is important to his series... Jigglypuff is important to Pokemon. Just not anymore, kind of like... Ness! It is the same thing, literally the same thing. Captain Falcon gets a pass though. He has main character status.

Not really, Ness is one of the main characters in the Earthbound series, but that's the thing, he's one of the main characters and appears quite a bit because of it and will always have importance to himself, same with Captain Falcon. Jigglypuff is one of many and while she stood out greatly in the past, she's faded quite a bit and doesn't have main character status to elevate her. That's what puts Ness and Captain Falcon just above her.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

The thing with the Fairy type is that she's not even used to promote it. She was cast alongside Gardevoir, Sylveon and Marill, and I haven't seen her that much in the advertisements for it while all three of the others (especially Sylveon) have gotten more traction in advertising. Really, I can't say that Fairy Type revives her.

Why would Sakurai care whether or not she's used for advertising? I said Sakurai may want Jigglypuff in the game because she has new potential he could enjoy exploiting. He may even want her in regardless. How are we to know?

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

The only thing she has going for her is her status as a Fairy Type? I think you forgot about a dedicated decade in the franchise (10 years... probably older than a significant portion of the population that wants her cut).

Like the other 150 Pokemon?

I know, Ad Hominem. I think you forgot about her tier in Melee (expands her player base).

How good she was in the 2nd instalment (not even the newest one) is a reason to keep her? If Pichu was top teir should we have kept him?

I think the premise that she was in ALL Smash installments (like all other Original Gangstas) is more than enough.

If he thought keeping a character that has been around since the beginning was essential he wouldn't have made her so low priority.

She doesn't need her new type. All that did was give her an excuse to be relevant again.

Ok.

 

[Arcanir]

Why would Sakurai care whether or not she's used for advertising? I said Sakurai may want Jigglypuff in the game because she has new potential he could enjoy exploiting. He may even want her in regardless. How are we to know?

Because advertising was listed as one of the reasons Sakurai picks the Pokémon. Regardless, I'm just saying that Fairy type is not really the breath of life that Jigglypuff needs to stand out.

 

[MagnesD3]

W

Falco and Wolf (like ALL the characters) have the potential for a unique moveset,they can have a lot of weapons and things...but,look at them.

Wolf is unique, falco is more like Luigi, Krystal has the most potential Moveset for all the sf characters IMO.

 

[Morbi]

The thing with the Fairy type is that she's not even used to promote it. She was cast alongside Gardevoir, Sylveon and Marill, and I haven't seen her that much in the advertisements for it while all three of the others (especially Sylveon) have gotten more traction in advertising. Really, I can't say that Fairy Type revives her, especially not to the extent of Mewtwo, Lucario, Pikachu and PT.



Not really, Ness is one of the main characters in the Earthbound series, but that's the thing, he's one of the main characters and appears quite a bit because of it and will always have importance to himself, same with Captain Falcon. Jigglypuff is one of many and while she stood out greatly in the past, she's faded quite a bit and doesn't have main character status to elevate her. That's what puts Ness and Captain Falcon just above her.

I am not too familiar with the Earthbound/Mother series. I thought Ninten was the main character.

Not sure if you are directing that "Fairy" thing at me. I don't think it revives her. I think it gives her the relevance she didn't have going into Brawl. That is all. I actually thought that a reoccurring character that has been a staple of the franchise for 13 and a half years would be enough to get most people to side with me. At that point, I thought it would be common sense. Jigglypuff will have been a part of the franchise for almost 15 years by the time Smash 4 launches. So if people think that she is on the chopping block because she isn't relevant anymore... that is fine by me.

It is funny, before the DDoS, so many people would attack the relevance argument. I guess we are back at square one. A rep needs to be new and fresh to make it into Smash. Roy doesn't stand a chance. Lucas probably doesn't either.

Anyways. I am hoping that in October I get to prove everyone wrong. With the launch of X and Y, one can only hope that Jigglypuff will be the reveal of the month.

Like the other 150 Pokemon? How good she was in the 2nd instalment (not even the newest one) is a reason to keep her? If Pichu was top teir should we have kept him? If he thought keeping a character that has been around since the beginning was essential he wouldn't have made her so low priority. Ok.

I was talking about Smash. 150 Pokemon aren't in Smash, bro. Jigglypuff was.

No. I specifically put my reason in parenthesis (her player base was expanded). I did that so no one would be stupid enough to claim that ANY character should stay based on tier. LOL. I need to show this to my sister.

I addressed your last point 4 or 5 times now. You are a different breed of stupid. You can disagree with me, but you can't just ignore what I type and expect me to reiterate my perspective.

 

[Bajef8]

Well, that depends, really. Sakurai is going to keep adding characters until he can't anymore. Obviously, Pokemon should maintain equal ground with Mario. Who, realistically, can take her place for Pokemon? I, personally, think it's limited to Mewtwo and MAYBE Lucario. I can't think off a better lineup than Pikachu, Red, Mewtwo, Lucario, and Jiggles.

Jigglypuff approves of this message.

Also, what's with all this Jiggs hate?

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

Because advertising was listed as one of the reasons Sakurai picks the Pokémon. Regardless, I'm just saying that Fairy type is not really the breath of life that Jigglypuff needs to stand out.

Sakurai's terms have changed since Brawl, that could be one of them. As unlikely as that is, it's besides my point.

My point is that Sakurai may disagree. He may really want to exploit Jigg's new type. We'll just have to wait and see what he does.

 

[FalKoopa]

I still think that the ease of programmming her will be Jigglypuff's saving grace.

It's funny, most people agree that cuts are inevitable, but there is hardly a consensus about it.

Toon Link - B-But Wind Waker HD is coming up!
Ike - But we got Priam as a shoutout to him in Awakening.... And the Smash Brethen DLC!
Lucario - He just got a Mega-evolution!
Jigglypuff - But she is a 3-time veteran! (many consider it a weak argument, but it's still commonly used)

 

[Morbi]

Sakurai's terms have changed since Brawl, that could be one of them. As unlikely as that is, it's besides my point.

My point is that Sakurai may disagree. He may really want to exploit Jigg's new type. We'll just have to wait and see what he does.

This is what I think. It would be a nice gimmick to explore. Especially when considering the possibility of a new final smash.

 

[MagnesD3]

I don't think anybody will be cut this time, I think a few cut characters will even return..

 

[N3ON]

If there was an extremely qualified, likely, and "deserving" new Pokemon character for Smash, I could see Jiggs being prioritized lower than that character (and Mewtwo, Lucario, and the Trainer), but since that isn't really the case, and since Sakurai did plan to have all five in Brawl, I'd be surprised if Jiggs was cut this time. Prioritized the lowest of the Pokemon characters? Perhaps. But cut? Unlikely I'd say. Unless Sakurai really wants to trim the roster down, and even then I doubt he'd start with Jiggs. Plus being Fairy type can't hurt.

 

[Bajef8]

Seriously though, Smash's face is pretty much the Originals and Master Hand. You can't just cut Jiggs now that she became irrelevant to Pokemon. She's almost like the eternal joke character.

 

[Shorts]

Jigglypuff will be cut over my dead body.

We need that *****.

 

[Morbi]

Seriously though, Smash's face is pretty much the Originals and Master Hand. You can't just cut Jiggs now that she became irrelevant to Pokemon. She's almost like the eternal joke character.

Jigglypuff will be cut over my dead body.

We need that *****.

Finally... some back up. I have been defending our pink friend for an hour. It is getting stressful.

 

[Chandeelure]

This Smash will have DLC?

 

[SuperBrawler]

Fairy type, please.

Also, I have my own reasons for cutting Lucario, but he is too bad***.

 

[Shorts]

Toon Link, Snake, Lucario, Pokemon Trainer, Wolf, Sonic, Ike

All characters I can see getting cut before Puff

 

[Morbi]

This Smash will have DLC?

I think I read something contrary to that notion. I don't think DLC is a huge priority. I wish it was though. I wish it was.

 

[Bajef8]

Finally... some back up. I have been defending our pink friend for an hour. It is getting stressful.

I thought we had moved on from this, but alas, it seems we're back at her defense again, eh Morbid?

 

[FinalStarmen]

Does Chrom really have any merits besides recency?

I fully support the Tactician/My Unit/Robin as the next playable Fire Emblem representative. I can only see Chrom/Lucina as Assist Trophies, if I were to be perfectly honest. The Tactician brings much more to the table, so to speak.

 

[N3ON]

I very much doubt PKMN Trainer would be cut at all, let alone before Jiggs. Even if he is only a one-time vet, he's still much more important to the series and uses some of the most popular and iconic characters. I don't see why Sakurai would cut him, especially since he's been toying with the idea since Melee.

 

[Bajef8]

I think I read something contrary to that notion. I don't think DLC is a huge priority. I wish it was though. I wish it was.

There was an interview that stated he was planning on shoving as much as he could into the game, but DLC wasn't out of the realm of possibility. So he isn't going in with plans for it, but it may happen if need be.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

I don't think anybody will be cut this time, I think a few cut characters will even return..

I'll be honest. When I see realistically sized rosters that make no cuts and bring back melee vets, I feel a bit disappointed. The roster doesn't feel exciting. With a roster like that there's usually not enough newcomers to say, "wow this is fantastic."

One of sakurai's criteria for characters is that they need to make people want to play the game. Maybe it does for a lot of hardcore fans here on smashboards, but I don't think bringing back as much of what we've seen before as possible makes the game appealing to a lot of people.

 

[Shorts]

I very much doubt PKMN Trainer would be cut at all, let alone before Jiggs. Even if he is only a one-time vet, he's still much more important to the series and uses some of the most popular and iconic characters. I don't see why Sakurai would cut him, especially since he's been toying with the idea since Melee.

Just like Mewtwo huh? :eyeroll:

 

[Gingerbread Man]

There was an interview that stated he was planning on shoving as much as he could into the game, but DLC wasn't out of the realm of possibility. So he isn't going in with plans for it, but it may happen if need be.

Essentially he gave the best answer. Act like DLC isn't an option while the game is in development. Then consider it after the fact.
That's how DLC should be.

 

[Morbi]

There was an interview that stated he was planning on shoving as much as he could into the game, but DLC wasn't out of the realm of possibility. So he isn't going in with plans for it, but it may happen if need be.

That is great news. If by some sick, foul, repugnant, disturbed, horrible, decadent, nasty, disgusting, repulsive reason Jigglypuff does get cut... Jiggs will be top priority for DLC.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Jiggly will NOT get cut because....

Spoiler

Without jiggly kirby will be sad D:

 

[N3ON]

Just like Mewtwo huh? :eyeroll:

Difference being when both Jiggs and the Trainer were to be added, one got priority while the other ended up on the expendable list. In Melee Mewtwo and Jiggs were both added in the initial set of characters, Sakurai didn't show preference for one over the other. Since the Trainer wasn't as poorly received as Mewtwo, and since there are no new Pokemon to really shift the order around, why would it be different this time?

 

[Chandeelure]

Essentially he gave the best answer. Act like DLC isn't an option while the game is in development. Then consider it after the fact.
That's how DLC should be.

That means that it's never too late for Bandana Dee!

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Jigglypuff is to be removed off the table of kicke predictions
(But still possible i understand that but to explain why shes likely to stay)

1 she made all 3 smash bros

2 she advertises x and y because of being one of the of the new fairy forms

3 she one of the mains in the anime because of that marker she uses to draw on people and pokemons faces for punishment for sleeping during her singing as a matter of fact i think that should be her new final smash

So very unlikely she will be kicked

I think the kicked characters are going to be wolf snake toon link and ike

Ike because he might be kicked the same way roy got kicked and chrom might be the replacement

Wolf because falco was in 2 smash brothers games so falco is more likely to stay more than wolf

Toon link because of him in the background of that stage but i know it does not neccessary deconfirm himits just a theory

Snake because he was just a request from a friend and its still a win for hindo kachino since he will always be playable in smash brothers brawl

 

[Arcanir]

I am not too familiar with the Earthbound/Mother series. I thought Ninten was the main character.

Not sure if you are directing that "Fairy" thing at me. I don't think it revives her. I think it gives her the relevance she didn't have going into Brawl. That is all. I actually thought that a reoccurring character that has been a staple of the franchise for 13 and a half years would be enough to get most people to side with me. At that point, I thought it would be common sense. Jigglypuff will have been a part of the franchise for almost 15 years by the time Smash 4 launches. So if people think that she is on the chopping block because she isn't relevant anymore... that is fine by me.

It is funny, before the DDoS, so many people would attack the relevance argument. I guess we are back at square one. A rep needs to be new and fresh to make it into Smash. Roy doesn't stand a chance. Lucas probably doesn't either.

Anyways. I am hoping that in October I get to prove everyone wrong. With the launch of X and Y, one can only hope that Jigglypuff will be the reveal of the month.

To be honest, I don't think she (or any of the Pokémon reps for that matter) will be going anywhere, mostly for the same reasons N3ON has stated, the series is completely content with the Brawl 4 and Mewtwo. I'm just saying her case is the hardest to make.

And I'll avoid the Roy discussion because that will get ugly fast.

Sakurai's terms have changed since Brawl, that could be one of them. As unlikely as that is, it's besides my point.

My point is that Sakurai may disagree. He may really want to exploit Jigg's new type. We'll just have to wait and see what he does.

That was listed during the Smash 4 E3 period, but I do see what you mean in that it can give Jigglypuff something new to play with.

 

[Bajef8]

Honestly, if a Pokemon cut happened, I see Lucario leaving before Jiggs anyway. However I don't see any of them leaving.

 

[MagnesD3]

I'll be honest. When I see realistically sized rosters that make no cuts and bring back melee vets, I feel a bit disappointed. The roster doesn't feel exciting. With a roster like that there's usually not enough newcomers to say, "wow this is fantastic."

One of sakurai's criteria for characters is that they need to make people want to play the game. Maybe it does for a lot of hardcore fans here on smashboards, but I don't think bringing back as much of what we've seen before as possible doesn't make the game appealing to a lot of people.

I think sakurai saw some of the backlash From cutting mewtwo and Roy. I believe he will right those wrongs and keep the cast from brawl but this could mean receiving less newcomers which I am also afraid of.

 

[SuperBrawler]

Honestly, if a Pokemon cut happened, I see Lucario leaving before Jiggs anyway. However I don't see any of them leaving.

Me too.

 

[Morbi]

Difference being when both Jiggs and the Trainer were to be added, one got priority while the other ended up on the expendable list. In Melee Mewtwo and Jiggs were both added in the initial set of characters, Sakurai didn't show preference for one over the other. Since the Trainer wasn't as poorly received as Mewtwo, and since there are no new Pokemon to really shift the order around, why would it be different this time?

Mewtwo was poorly received because he was bottom tier. So that is a little irrelevant.

At the same time, I think Trainer is on the chopping block. If Sakurai knows that cuts must be made; however, he wants to limit the cuts as much as possible? He will cut Pokemon Trainer. Kill 3 birds with one stone. Trainer takes 3, arguably 4 characters development time. So by cutting Trainer, he is limiting the roster by 1... but cutting the characters by 3 (4). This is what a reasonable developer would do. Especially considering that Trainer creates a disproportionate saturation of Pokemon reps.

 

[Shorts]

Difference being when both Jiggs and the Trainer were to be added, one got priority while the other ended up on the expendable list. In Melee Mewtwo and Jiggs were both added in the initial set of characters, Sakurai didn't show preference for one over the other. Since the Trainer wasn't as poorly received as Mewtwo, and since there are no new Pokemon to really shift the order around, why would it be different this time?

You don't know that. Besides, Jigglypuff has an insanely easy design, and for all we know she is always one of the latter characters made. Doesn't mean she isn't important. She's Smash important.

I don't think PT is leaving, but I definitely think he'd be cut over Jigglypuff.

And don't get it twisted, Mewtwo wasn't cut because he sucked. That's irrelevant. If Mewtwo can be put on the chopping block, a just as ****ty PT can be as well.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

I think sakurai saw some of the backlash From cutting mewtwo and Roy. I believe he will right those wrongs and keep the cast from brawl but this could mean receiving less newcomers which I am also afraid of.

I hear the term backlash a lot. What backlash exactly is sakurai going to see?

 

[Morbi]

You don't know that. Besides, Jigglypuff has an insanely easy design, and for all we know she is always one of the latter characters made. Doesn't mean she isn't important. She's Smash important.

I don't think PT is leaving, but I definitely think he'd be cut over Jigglypuff.

And don't get it twisted, Mewtwo wasn't cut because he sucked. That's irrelevant. If Mewtwo can be put on the chopping block, a just as ****ty PT can be as well.

Yes. Her easy design is her savior, that makes her extremely easy to develop. So why cut an easy to develop character that wouldn't take nearly the amount of resources that a difficult character would. That would just be a bad decision. If not, she will probably head the DLC. One of the original 12 would be a great selling point for her.