Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[N3ON]

I thin Sakurai's opinion has probably changed after a world wide release (a 5th one at that). No longer being Japan Only is a HUGE plus for Starfy, I think if he wasn't japan only he might have gotten more love in Brawl (not that he didn't have quite some to begin with). Sakurai has also shown he is much more creative with move sets. Creating ones for Villager & Wii Fit Trainer. I honestly doubt his opinion about Starfy's moves is the same now.

Yes, Starfy's internatial audience is the only thing that's really different since Brawl. And sure, it helps him greatly, but not to the extent that he's actually among the most likely characters. Because while him becoming international for him is a big deal, for most other serious candidates, it's a given. It's not like getting an international release by itself puts him above characters who have had most or all of their games release internationally.

And yeah, like I said, Sakurai very well might've changed his opinion of Starfy. But we can't assume he definitely has, and for that reason he can't even be anything close to a shoo-in. A character with a decent chance? Perhaps. But a character still outmatched by a fair amount of others.

Can we seriously have a Starfy debate that isn't this stupid "Requests & Sakurai's Personal opinion" crap. It's like the first thing people go to and it really urks me that people use requests and an outdated statement as a reason to not have somebody.

We can stop raising those points when they stop becoming valid points. Sakurai has stated some characters get in due to popularity/requests, and obviously Sakurai's opinion is crucial, a character can't get in without Sakurai thinking they'd be feasible.

For starters, I don't think a character not having requests means **** to Sakurai at all.

Not if they have enough other factors to make up for their lack of demand, like WFT (being from a hugely prolific series), G&W or ROB (being integral to Nintendo's history) or a retro (Sakurai allocating a specific spot on the roster for them). In absence of strong demand, Starfy really doesn't have anything that would give him the edge over other more likely misc. characters.

We are going on a statement made a LONG time ago when Starfy was Japan Only and Sakurai couldn't make a move set for Villager.

2008 is not such a long time ago. It's when Starfy's last game came out in Japan. Plus, Sakurai has made unfavourable comments about other characters from many years previous that still stand. Like I keep saying, it's entirely possible Sakurai's opinion has changed, but it's also entirely possible it hasn't. There's absolutely no logic behind just assuming it has because it did for another character.

I can see Sakurai's personal opinion getting characters in, but sure as hell not keeping them out. I don't recall him stating that his opinion had anything to do with Starfy's appearance.

He said no series post-Pikmin and pre-Brawl had feasible fighters. He's also made negative comments towards Sukapon, Balloon Fighter, and even Villager. So sure, Sakurai's opinion has obviously kept characters out before. Hell, look at what might happen to Ridley.

Starfy has deserved it just as much as Issac or Shulk, He's done great in Japan, had 5 games, and has been given tons of love by Nintendo. Are we really going by ratings of released games and how long ago somebody's last game was as apposed to how much history they've made (which has done very well in the first place). Nintendo obviously cares about Staryf if they gave him 5 games and released him in NA.

That's really a debate I'd rather not get into, I've argued misc characters many many times before, but if Starfy deserves inclusion just as much as Isaac or Shulk, would you also call Isaac and Shulk "shoo-ins"?

 

[Chandeelure]

I like Starfy .

 

[NickerBocker]

Starfy being Japan only didnt hurt his chances. FE was japan only and they put in Marth and Roy in melee.

Being international definitely helps though

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Starfy really doesn't have anything that would give him the edge over other more likely misc. characters.

• Being popular in Japan
• Having 5 games
• Apparently being important to Nintendo

 

[FlareHabanero]

So folks...

You think we'll get a Zelda related reveal on Thursday?

That banner went away AWFUL quickly.

Having far too high expectations for something that won't happen, eh?

 

[N3ON]

Starfy being Japan only didnt hurt his chances. FE was japan only and they put in Marth and Roy in melee.

Being international definitely helps though

Considering Sakurai wasn't intending for the FE characters to make it out of Japan and has since said he's going to limit Japan-only characters, yes, being Japan-only is a hindrance.

• Being popular in Japan
• Having 5 games
• Apparently being important to Nintendo

1. Not as popular as other misc. characters such as Shulk.
2. Number of titles isn't everything, especially when 4/5 had a limited audience. Impact the series has had as a whole usually is more a defining factor.
3. Important enough for what? A non-playable role in Smash and one international release? Most notable Nintendo series have more than that.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

• Being popular in Japan
• Having 5 games
• Apparently being important to Nintendo

• Unpopular in the West
• Last game being back in 2009. There hasn't been any announcements or rumors of a planned 6th game even after 4 years.
• I wouldn't call him important nor his games important. While well-received, they never helped sell its home system and response has been mixed towards the character.
• Lack of requests/desire from the Smash community.

However, I do admit that Starfy does have a decent chance of appearing. I feel he has the "underdog/wild card" vibe going for him that may make him appealing to Sakurai. I would not consider him a shoe-in. I feel that due to priority, popularity, and playability, he has lower chances compared to characters such as Shulk, Isaac, Saki, Dillon, etc.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

• Being popular in Japan
• Having 5 games
• Apparently being important to Nintendo

Apparently being important to Nintendo

Apparently being important

Apparently

 

[Oddyesy]

Is it ok if I interject? What if Isaac showed up? If that happened, Sakurai would be receiving all da monies from me.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Considering Sakurai wasn't intending for the FE characters to make it out of Japan and has since said he's going to limit Japan-only characters, yes, being Japan-only is a hindrance.


1. Not as popular as other misc. characters such as Shulk.
2. Number of titles isn't everything, especially when 4/5 had a limited audience. Impact the series has had as a whole usually is more a defining factor.
3. Important enough for what? A non-playable role in Smash and one international release? Most notable Nintendo series have more than that.

1. Popularity isn't always everything. I mean we got freaking Wii Fit, what makes the Legendary Starfy series any worse all of the sudden?
2. Fire Emblem had a limited audience, and yeah number of titles is a plus for characters. Just because it didn't have a massive impact doesn't mean it didn't have a good impact.
3. Important enough to be supported for 7 years, and again he was Japan Only when Brawl came out.

• Unpopular in the West
• Last game being back in 2009. There hasn't been any announcements or rumors of a planned 6th game even after 4 years.
• I wouldn't call him important nor his games important. While well-received, they never helped sell its home system and response has been mixed towards the character.
• Lack of requests/desire from the Smash community.

However, I do admit that Starfy does have a decent chance of appearing. I feel he has the "underdog/wild card" vibe going for him that may make him appealing to Sakurai. I would not consider him a shoe-in. I feel that due to priority, popularity, and playability, he has lower chances compared to characters such as Shulk, Isaac, Saki, Dillon, etc.

• I don't recall Golden Sun being that popular in the west
• Oh, WOW! A WHOLE YEAR LESS THAN GOLDEN SUN!!!!!
• I don't think we are the judge of what Nintendo considers important. And are we now judging by SYSTEM selling?
• Except he has much of this.

Anyway, I still th-.............wait "lower chances compared to characters such as Saki & Dillon!?!?!?!?" What are you smoking and where can I get some? How could you even compare him to these characters?

 

[Deleted member]

My money is on Daisy because EVERYONE hates the idea of her being playable and prefers the real Scrappy Doo (Waluigi) over her. At least she appeared in a non-spinoff at least once (Super Mario Land) unlike that lanky purple troll.

All Mario games are spin-offs.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

The Smash 4 General discussion thread is a bit quiet right now.

"comes to the roster Prediction Discussin Thread"

Starfy discussion?

"promptly leaves"

 

[Starbound]

On Starfy, I think it's worth noting that he has a lot of content in Brawl relative to the other universes with only an assist trophy to their names. It has 8 stickers and two trophies, and both of the trophies are considered fighter related. Perhaps Starfy was planned but canceled due to concerns about the lack of appeal the character would receive. I believe this is a similar reason for why Sakurai discounted Mii for Brawl.

 

[BKupa666]

A curious trend I'd like to point out: when people want to argue that popularity isn't a sizable factor in character inclusions, they point to singular characters, chosen to fill a shock role, ignoring dozens of characters that shatter their premise into bite-sized pieces.

 

[StupendousMike]

1. Popularity isn't always everything. I mean we got freaking Wii Fit, what makes the Legendary Starfy series any worse all of the sudden?

Wii Fit and Wii Fit Plus have sold more than 40 million copies combined. Just because they flew under the radar of Smash Bros. fans when character predictions were being tossed around doesn't change the fact that they are hugely popular games. Starfy doesn't even come close.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

The Smash 4 General discussion thread is a bit quiet right now.

"comes to the roster Prediction Discussin Thread"

A DIFFERENT DISCUSSION!?!?!?

"promptly leaves"

That's what I got out of this

A curious trend I'd like to point out: when people want to argue that popularity isn't a sizable factor in character inclusions, they point to singular characters, chosen to fill a shock role, ignoring dozens of characters that shatter their premise into bite-sized pieces.

The point is that it's not an excuse to keep you out, but it's a reason to get people IN.

 

[Starbound]

To be honest, I'd rather talk about Starfy than Fire Emblem

or Ridley's hole.

 

[Chandeelure]

The Smash 4 General discussion thread is a bit quiet right now.

"comes to the roster Prediction Discussin Thread"

Starfy discussion?

"promptly leaves"

At least, they aren´t talking about Fire Emblem.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

At least, they aren´t talking about Fire Emblem.

I'd rather talk about Fire Emblem than Pokemon.

And I know even less about Fire Emblem than I do Pokemon.

 

[Deleted member]

Guys....Little Mac can't be in Smash; he's retired, remember?

But there is still someone out there, someone that can take his place.
And he can finally fight in DREAMLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND.

Spoiler

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Guys....Little Mac can't be in Smash; he's retired, remember?

But there is still someone out there, someone that can take his place.
And he can finally fight in DREAMLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND.

Spoiler

"The image cannot be displayed because it contains errors."

 

[KingofPhantoms]

"The image cannot be displayed because it contains errors."

I know who's responsible for that image error-

Error for Sm4sh.

 

[Deleted member]

Image comes up fine for me.

 

[Glaciacott]

On the note of Starfy, anyone know what happened to that series? It seemed to be growing and got localized, but then suddenly it basically disappeared and was never even mentioned again. What gives?

 

[N3ON]

Is it ok if I interject? What if Isaac showed up? If that happened, Sakurai would be receiving all da monies from me.

If Isaac showed up there would be a N3ON-sized hole in my wall from where I ran through to be first in line for the game.

1. Popularity isn't always everything. I mean we got freaking Wii Fit, what makes the Legendary Starfy series any worse all of the sudden?
2. Fire Emblem had a limited audience, and yeah number of titles is a plus for characters. Just because it didn't have a massive impact doesn't mean it didn't have a good impact.
3. Important enough to be supported for 7 years, and again he was Japan Only when Brawl came out.

1. Well... one series has sold tens of millions, is a household name, and an undebatable resounding success considering it's target audience. Starfy has... limited popularity to say the least, and not even a fraction of that audience. The difference between them is almost staggering.
2. FE did have quite a large impact in Japan, but believe it or not, Sakurai said Marth was added due to *gasp* popularity. So there's your proof for why "requests not mattering" is simply untrue. And keep in mind, Marth was added when Sakurai intended to keep Japan-only characters in Japan, before he changed his policy to limit them. (Ike was also one of the most popular characters at the time of character popularity mattering for Brawl).
3. Ok... by that logic every series that has lasted longer than seven years while still getting the intermittent game is more important than Starfy...
How about Starfy is unimportant enough to Nintendo that they haven't bothered giving him a game in five years? Even GS and Punch-Out have received games since then (they're both series that have lasted longer than seven years as well).

Also, if you can't recall GS being popular, you probably weren't old enough when it was at its height. It was popular. The first two GS games were just as popular as the first two Pikmin games (roughly).

 

[Starbound]

On the note of Starfy, anyone know what happened to that series? It seemed to be growing and got localized, but then suddenly it basically disappeared and was never even mentioned again. What gives?

Quite a few Nintendo IPs have disappeared for a while. F-Zero, Starfox and Golden Sun spring to mind. Fire Emblem was gone for a few years too in the west. It's pretty normal for anything not Mario, Pokemon or Zelda.

I think Nintendo is really focusing on making Wii U sales because of how poorly its doing, and they know what generates cash for it (Smash Bros., Mario Kart, 3D Mario and Zelda all come to mind). We'll probably see a return to the "forgotten" franchises when they have a bit more money to sit on.

Not like they need the Wii U to do well because they'll go bankrupt without it, but the Wii U sales are just... pitiful (in the summer quarter, they sold more Wiis than Wii Us, for example).

Also Noah, you're really underestimating Wii Fit's popularity. Just because it isn't hardcore doesn't mean that no one buys it.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

• I don't recall Golden Sun being that popular in the west

Yet it has had its games released in the West. I would venture to say that it is more popular than Starfy in the West

• Oh, WOW! A WHOLE YEAR LESS THAN GOLDEN SUN!!!!!

Yet it still received an installment. Plus, the developers have commented they intend to continue the series further. Unless I am mistaken, the team behind Starfy have not commented on continuing the series.

• I don't think we are the judge of what Nintendo considers important. And are we now judging by SYSTEM selling?[/collapse]

Yet you said previously that Starfy as being apparently important to Nintendo. I would like to see the reasoning behind this.

Considering that Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, Pikmin, Donkey Kong, Wii Fit, AC all help sell their consoles - then yeah. While Xenoblade never did help sell the Wii, it did set itself out by being licensed overseas due to Operation Rainfall. I do admit that Golden Sun and S&P do not help sell their respective systems. Starfy does not stand out as an iconic, sellable character within the DS.

• Except he has much of this.

His fan base has increased since SSBB but it's hardly a visible/present force within the Smash community. He simply lacks the fanpower.

Anyway, I still th-.............wait "lower chances compared to characters such as Saki & Dillon!?!?!?!?" What are you smoking and where can I get some? How could you even compare him to these characters?

I see your point with Dillon but I personally don't think that him or Starfy are very likely. However, I do feel Saki is a fairly likely candidate.

Starfy's Dojo Page and Saki's Dojo Page. Sakurai's comments about Saki are absolutely shimmering when compared to Starfy's. However, Saki does only have one game though he is a N64 Star and saw a Japan-only release which ended up being brought over in later years. His fanbase is also slowly decreasing with his chances becoming less and less.

I still think that Starfy has a decent chance; is is nowhere near being considered a shoe-in. Much like what others have said, he isn't as popular, relevant, unique, or likely as you think he is.

In regards to what I am smoking, it's a family secret. Passed down by generations and generations of Venus'.[/quote]

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Wii Fit apparently sold more than all three smash games combined.

Don't underestimate the casual market.



Also, I know this might get me killed but...

I'm starting to doubt getting a retro character. Someone sell me on it again.

 

[BKupa666]

I'm starting to doubt getting a retro character. Someone sell me on it again.

That one article about Sakurai wanting to bring back old characters through Smash still exists?

 

[Starbound]

Didn't Sakurai say in an interview that he wants to revive some old franchise with a brand new game after Smash 4?

I mean I guess it's not a requirement to include the character in Smash 4, but the publicity you'd get from it would surely help the game sell well. Just look at what happened with Pit and Uprising.

I think the problem is just who?

Takamaru can't really be revived because of Samurai Warriors.
Mach Rider would be awesome but I doubt it would work in Smash Bros. unless he takes off the bike.
Balloon Fighter would be awesome too but I think we all know how unlikely that is at this point.
Duck Hunt Dog works but I doubt it because of animal abuse issues that would most certainly arrive from punching a dog, not to mention recording the sound effects of a dog getting hurt would be a massive no-no from Nintendo.
Urban Champion has been dismissed for not doing much, and I predict a lot of rage if he were to get a spot instead of Little Mac.

That pretty much leaves the Devil World Devil and Bubbles from Clu Clu Land.

Edit: Oh, and Sukapon.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I doubt Bubbles' inclusion, but I would still love it if she got in.

And I'd love it even more if the game Sakurai plans to revive would be Ice Climbers. (not sure if you could consider that a franchise though, since it only had one game)

 

[Starbound]

As far as Sakurai is concerned, Kid Icarus only had one game. Myths and Monsters not being released in Japan caused it pretty much get ignored in both Brawl and Uprising.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Myths and Monsters wasn't released in Japan? I didn't know that.

 

[AEMehr]

Didn't Sakurai say in an interview that he wants to revive some old franchise with a brand new game after Smash 4?

I mean I guess it's not a requirement to include the character in Smash 4, but the publicity you'd get from it would surely help the game sell well. Just look at what happened with Pit and Uprising.

I think the problem is just who?

Takamaru can't really be revived because of Samurai Warriors.
Mach Rider would be awesome but I doubt it would work in Smash Bros. unless he takes off the bike.
Balloon Fighter would be awesome too but I think we all know how unlikely that is at this point.
Duck Hunt Dog works but I doubt it because of animal abuse issues that would most certainly arrive from punching a dog, not to mention recording the sound effects of a dog getting hurt would be a massive no-no from Nintendo.
Urban Champion has been dismissed for not doing much, and I predict a lot of rage if he were to get a spot instead of Little Mac.

That pretty much leaves the Devil World Devil and Bubbles from Clu Clu Land.

Edit: Oh, and Sukapon.

poor muddy

 

[Starbound]

Oh yeah. Forgot about him because I limited myself to the NES. That'd be a fun game to see again.

 

[Deleted member]

Captain Falcon worked outside his racecar.
Fox worked outside his plane.
Mach Rider can work off his bike.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Oh yeah. Forgot about him because I limited myself to the NES.

Ahem *points at profile pic.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I never did think there would be any sort of issue with Mach Rider just because he always rode his bike. No character should need a vehicle to work in Smash.

 

[3Bismyname]

Mach Rider I think would stand the best chance as a retro character. being one of, note that I said one of, the more notable retro titles not yet represented in smash. and apparently Sakurai has expressed interest in the series so there's that.

 

[Starbound]

Yeah, Mach Rider would be awesome and a top-down rail shooter Mach Rider 2 would literally be the best idea ever.

I just think that it's like Excitebiker from Melee all over again. Kinda like how I think Little Mac is like Urban Champion all over again. =/