Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[?????????????]

I may very well be wrong on my point of view, but I saw Snake's appearance to be as a visitor and as a favor. I wouldn't be surprised if he was cut or kept; I just think that Sakurai has a lot on his plate to jump through the hoops to get Snake included again.

Couldn't someone use that wording for any 3rd party character?

 

[N3ON]

Thanks for the feedback! Ultimately, I think I like it like this.

However...IF I upped it again to 50 characters, I think I have a better idea of what I would do. Something like...this?

Any thoughts or preferences between the two?

I think both rosters are fine personally, but I'd maybe give Muddy a second thought. He's not the worst character to add, but unlike other surprising additions, he's not from a clearly important series (WFT), he isn't an integral part of Nintendo's history (G&W/ROB), and there's already a more likely, and frankly a better choice for a retro on your roster (Takamaru). His addition seems kind of... random. It just doesn't seem like something Sakurai would do.

That's my thought at least.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Duck Hunt Dog > Muddy Mole
Personally..

 

[Pacack]

Couldn't someone use that wording for any 3rd party character?

When it comes to Sonic, there are quite a few Nintendo-exclusive releases by Sega, making Sonic a relatively safe choice, and I don't believe for a second that Namco-Bandai is not getting Pac-Man.

 

[Arcadenik]

Blue Toad? Okay... that's fine... but I don't think the playable Toad in Smash should be named "Blue Toad" when you consider palette swaps in Smash.

For example, Blue Toad's Red Team costume makes him look like Red Toad but he is still named "Blue Toad"? Come on now, just call him "Toad" even if Blue Toad is the default color.

 

[Opossum]

I think both rosters are fine personally, but I'd maybe give Muddy a second thought. He's not the worst character to add, but unlike other surprising additions, he's not from a clearly important series (WFT), he isn't an integral part of Nintendo's history (G&W/ROB), and there's already a more likely, and frankly a better choice for a retro on your roster (Takamaru). His addition seems kind of... random. It just doesn't seem like something Sakurai would do.

That's my thought at least.

One thing that I do think Muddy has for him that does set him apart from other obscure or retro characters is the fact that he's actually a Miyamoto creation. In fact, it's pretty much his only character-driven series that he created that doesn't have a playable character in Smash (well, apparently he did Doshin the Giant, too, but he has other issues to deal with...). Just as a sort of fun-fact, haha. Sakurai always did like pulling from the Nintendo archives for things.

 

[Pacack]

Blue Toad? Okay... that's fine... but I don't think the playable Toad in Smash should be named "Blue Toad" when you consider palette swaps in Smash.

For example, Blue Toad's Red Team costume makes him look like Red Toad but he is still named "Blue Toad"? Come on now, just call him "Toad" even if Blue Toad is the default color.

I mentioned this already, I would've just named him Toad if the roster Icon didn't say Blue Toad.

 

[YoshiandToad]

That's my problem with cutting Snake, he has tons more reason to be in Smash Bros now than he had in Brawl.

Considering he had no reason to be in Brawl at all really, that's not very hard.

Sonic's not exactly a Nintendo All Star either though in that regard.

That said, it'll be interesting to see how 3rd Parties are treated in Smash 4; whether 3rd party vets are a returning group or if they're a one time deal. Perhaps we'll find out if Sonic gets revealed next month(although it's far more likely to be a Pokemon vet).

 

[FalKoopa]

>People still think that Toad is going to be in Super Smash Bros. WiiU/3DS via playable character.

Both his disconfirmation and that his supporters are still in denial mode are disappointing.

It was really unfortunate, but there's nothing we can do except move on.

 

[?????????????]

I still don't think I've seen an argument against Snake that would have been something that would not have already been considered prior to adding him in SSBB in the first place.

 

[Arcadenik]

By the way, I like that you added Wild Gunman over Sheriff... at least he is more colorful.

Personally, I would swap Wild Gunman for Dillon and Duck Hunt Dog.

Dillon because he is a cowboy just like Wild Gunman but is more interesting.

Duck Hunt Dog because he reps the NES Zapper too but is more iconic.

 

[N3ON]

One thing that I do think Muddy has for him that does set him apart from other obscure or retro characters is the fact that he's actually a Miyamoto creation. In fact, it's pretty much his only character-driven series that he created that doesn't have a playable character in Smash (well, apparently he did Doshin the Giant, too, but he has other issues to deal with...). Just as a sort of fun-fact, haha. Sakurai always did like pulling from the Nintendo archives for things.

While that might get him some special attention in comparison to another character not created by Miyamoto in his situation, perhaps as an AT (like was rumored for Brawl) I doubt it would be enough to get him in over more qualified characters. While Nintendo likes to honor Miyamoto's works, and for good reason, I doubt Sakurai has that level of bias towards him.

 

[Opossum]

While that might get him some special attention in comparison to another character not created by Miyamoto in his situation, perhaps as an AT (like was rumored for Brawl) I doubt it would be enough to get him in over more qualified characters. While Nintendo likes to honor Miyamoto's works, and for good reason, I doubt Sakurai has that level of bias towards him.

While I can see where you're coming from, one thing that could easily save Muddy if Sakurai were to look is the moveset potential. I mean, Sakurai's been on record saying that he chose the Ice Climbers due to gameplay potential alone, and I would think that a digging+trap using shtick would be something that'd pique Sakurai's interest.

But in all honesty, I'd be ecstatic if he were even an Assist Trophy. I just want him in Smash in some form.

 

[Pacack]

By the way, I like that you added Wild Gunman over Sheriff... at least he is more colorful.

Personally, I would swap Wild Gunman for Dillon and Duck Hunt Dog.

Dillon because he is a cowboy just like Wild Gunman but is more interesting.

Duck Hunt Dog because he reps the NES Zapper too but is more iconic.

Thanks, but I would never do that.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

I like how a lot of people still say Pac-man's a guarantee, but yet he's anything but certain now.

 

[?????????????]

Well, ultimately...I think I'm going to go with Roster A: 48 Characters. Might even do a video about it sooner than I originally planned.

My main purpose for the change in the first place was to have a larger number of newcomers than 10. I think 13 works just fine.

I agree now that Palutena is ultimately the best choice for a new KI rep. With that, I think every series has enough reps without being too many; I think it's justifiable for Zelda to have 5 and KI to have 2, moreso than Star Fox having 4 or even F-Zero having 2 (though that example COULD be argued).

I definitely see the appeal of Isaac, and would say that to me, he's another choice that's "interchangable" in my roster with Shulk, like Bowser Jr. to Paper Mario or Dixie to K. Rool. However, I would personally prefer Shulk, and I think 5 new representatives of their own series (WFT, Villager, Mac, Takamaru, Shulk) is plenty, especially when compared to Brawl's 3 new characters (Olimar, Pit, ROB).

 

[Bajef8]

New roster, any thought guys and gals?

This is what I'm feeling a conservative roster will boil down to. No cuts. 45 total. I'll explain some of the odd choices.
- I still think Sakurai won't discount a previous character, being Roy, so I still feel he has a chance over Chrom. He can also be differentiated and unique.
- I don't think KI warrants a 2nd rep.
- Still think Bowser Jr. will get in over Paper Mario, but I still like the idea of Paper Mario and wouldn't be upset if it was him over Jr.
- Not feeling K Rool's chances are very good anymore. What with Rare's relationship with Ninty and the Kremlings being shafted in most recent DK games.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I like how a lot of people still say Pac-man's a guarantee, but yet he's anything but certain now.

Told this since the beginning.

A Namco character was never more likely than before.

Stop preaching that it is...

 

[N3ON]

While I can see where you're coming from, one thing that could easily save Muddy if Sakurai were to look is the moveset potential. I mean, Sakurai's been on record saying that he chose the Ice Climbers due to gameplay potential alone, and I would think that a digging+trap using shtick would be something that'd pique Sakurai's interest.

But in all honesty, I'd be ecstatic if he were even an Assist Trophy. I just want him in Smash in some form.

Right, but when he was looking for a classic character, the spot Ice Climbers would fill, he was only looking to fill one spot. And chances are this time the spot Muddy would be vying for will be claimed by Takamaru. At this point in the series, it doesn't seem like Sakurai is going to expand the "retro" spot from one to two, even with the potential other retros could bring.

I don't mean to rain on Muddy, but at this point, at least for Smash 4, he seems more like a pipe dream than anything else. But yeah, I'd say he has a decent chance of being an AT, especially if he was planned to be one last time.

 

[Arcadenik]

While I can see where you're coming from, one thing that could easily save Muddy if Sakurai were to look is the moveset potential. I mean, Sakurai's been on record saying that he chose the Ice Climbers due to gameplay potential alone, and I would think that a digging+trap using shtick would be something that'd pique Sakurai's interest.

But in all honesty, I'd be ecstatic if he were even an Assist Trophy. I just want him in Smash in some form.

I would love to see Muddy Mole in Smash too. I liked Mole Mania... but Villager already covered that shtick with his shovel move. Still, you never know if Sakurai wants to repeat that shtick with another character.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Both his disconfirmation and that his supporters are still in denial mode are disappointing.

It was really unfortunate, but there's nothing we can do except move on.

I blame Sakurai's comment about moveset changes. If he'd said that for anyone other than Peach when Toad is one of the few moves she's shown to have used we all could of just gone "oh, Toad's not in; bummer, but not unexpected". Because of that one stupid comment a lot of Toad supporters still think he has a chance. Had the comment come when Luigi or Olimar appeared, whose movesets wouldn't change the chance of a character no one would batter an eyelid.

Personally? Even as a loyal Toad fan I think his chances are in the gutter, but having supported Toad since 2001, I have appearences to uphold. He's still my number one want, I just know he's ****ed for Smash Bros. 4. (Although admittedly if he did get revealed I would obviously be over the moon)

Although for the record Toad's chances being shotgunned to the back of the head don't aid either Paper Mario, Bowser Jr, Waluigi, Doctor Mario or (god forbid) Geno either which is something I'm still surprised people occasionally seem to believe. One Mario character getting disconfirmed should not increase the chances of the others, especially since it's unconfirmed we're getting a new Mario rep at all.

 

[Opossum]

I would love to see Muddy Mole in Smash too. I liked Mole Mania... but Villager already covered that shtick with his shovel move. Still, you never know if Sakurai wants to repeat that shtick with another character.

I don't really think the shovel move stole his shtick anymore than DK's Side B did, really.

 

[xXBlazeMonkeyXx]

 

[Arcadenik]

New roster, any thought guys and gals?

This is what I'm feeling a conservative roster will boil down to. No cuts. 45 total. I'll explain some of the odd choices.
- I still think Sakurai won't discount a previous character, being Roy, so I still feel he has a chance over Chrom. He can also be differentiated and unique.
- I don't think KI warrants a 2nd rep.
- Still think Bowser Jr. will get in over Paper Mario, but I still like the idea of Paper Mario and wouldn't be upset if it was him over Jr.
- Not feeling K Rool's chances are very good anymore. What with Rare's relationship with Ninty and the Kremlings being shafted in most recent DK games.

So you don't think Kid Icarus warrants a second rep?

Well, Star Fox had only two games by the time Melee came out and it got a second rep (Falco).

Mother had only three games by the time Brawl came out and it got a second rep (Lucas).

Kid Icarus currently has three games by the time SSB4 comes out... I think a second rep is warranted. I just hope it is not Dark Pit just because he is a prime clone material just like Falco and Lucas were.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Both his disconfirmation and that his supporters are still in denial mode are disappointing.

It was really unfortunate, but there's nothing we can do except move on.

It's the first phase: Denial.

Coming up is Anger.

 

[Arcadenik]

I don't really think the shovel move stole his shtick anymore than DK's Side B did, really.

DK's move only buried one enemy in front of him. Villager's move buries two enemies from both sides. How would you make Muddy's shtick different from DK's and Villager's?

 

[Sharkarat]

I mentioned this already, I would've just named him Toad if the roster Icon didn't say Blue Toad.

Here's a Version with that image that says just toad

 

[Opossum]

DK's move only buried one enemy in front of him. Villager's move buries two enemies from both sides. How would you make Muddy's shtick different from DK's and Villager's?

Essentially, by having his Side Special act like a Pitfall item (only one can be on the field at a time), and having his Down Special be Muddy physically burrowing into the ground to move around the stage faster or to escape from the opponent. What I view Muddy's shtick as is focusing on digging around the opponents, combined with setting up his Iron Ball to create an obstacle on the stage that he could throw at the opponent. Essentially, Muddy would be a character that relies heavily on traps, and using the stage he is fighting on to his advantage.

 

[YoshiandToad]

DK's move only buried one enemy in front of him. Villager's move buries two enemies from both sides. How would you make Muddy's shtick different from DK's and Villager's?

You could have it as a projectile dig move I guess? Some sand/mud could be kicked up to show where it is.
A bit of a push, but that's all I got.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Obviously 'Blue Toad' would just be called Toad. But...

It's over guys.

 

[Gune]

It's the first phase: Denial.

Coming up is Anger.

And that's gonna last a few years...

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Toad is apparently the new Ridley?

 

[Diddy Kong]

And carry over to new generations.

Prime example: Ridley

 

[FlareHabanero]

Toad is apparently the new Ridley?

Ridley minus the cool factor.

 

[Arcadenik]

Essentially, by having his Side Special act like a Pitfall item (only one can be on the field at a time), and having his Down Special be Muddy physically burrowing into the ground to move around the stage faster or to escape from the opponent. What I view Muddy's shtick as is focusing on digging around the opponents, combined with setting up his Iron Ball to create an obstacle on the stage that he could throw at the opponent. Essentially, Muddy would be a character that relies heavily on traps, and using the stage he is fighting on to his advantage.

Personally, I would like Muddy's dodging moves (you know, holding the shield button and then push the control stick?) to involve digging.

Side Dodge - Muddy goes underground and goes under the opponent and then jumps out from behind the opponent.

Down Dodge - Muddy goes underground and peeks his head out from the hole and then jumps out from the hole (based on holding B button while underground in the Game Boy game)

I think Down Special should be something else... not for avoiding opponents... that's what the dodges are for.

 

[?????????????]

And carry over to new generations.

Prime example: Ridley

Except that Ridley hasn't been shown yet.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Ridley minus the cool factor.

At least Toad can bounce of all Fireballs Ridley will shoot at Peach.

From the background.

In Pyrosphere.

From a hole.

 

[Opossum]

Personally, I would like Muddy's dodging moves (you know, holding the shield button and then push the control stick?) to involve digging.

Side Dodge - Muddy goes underground and goes under the opponent and then jumps out from behind the opponent.

Down Dodge - Muddy goes underground and peeks his head out from the hole and then jumps out from the hole (based on holding B button while underground in the Game Boy game)

I think Down Special should be something else... not for avoiding opponents... that's what the dodges are for.

The way I see it, it's not only for dodging, but for increased mobility and mind-game potential, as the opponent doesn't know where you're going to pop up (unless they're looking at your controller, haha).

 

[Bajef8]

So you don't think Kid Icarus warrants a second rep?

Well, Star Fox had only two games by the time Melee came out and it got a second rep (Falco).

Mother had only three games by the time Brawl came out and it got a second rep (Lucas).

Kid Icarus currently has three games by the time SSB4 comes out... I think a second rep is warranted. I just hope it is not Dark Pit just because he is a prime clone material just like Falco and Lucas were.

Starfox left a much larger mark on Nintendo's history than KI ever did. Starfox was massively popular until it died off during the Gamecube era. Do we need anymore than the 3 we have? No.

Earthbound/Mother were and still are very popular overseas, and definitely warranted Ness and Lucas. Any more than those 2? No.

Kid Icarus was a series that had 2 games total until recently. The 1st being alright, and the sequel not doing too hot. It was a retro series until it just got recently revived from the dead. Kid Icarus has not (I'm not saying it couldn't) made a huge impact for Nintendo until Uprising. And Uprising's impact is definitely not as big as Starfox's legacy or Earthbound/Mother. I don't see how any other character is needed from that universe. It's full of one-offs and secondary characters, with Pit being the only one that stands out.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Except that Ridley hasn't been shown yet.

When has that stopped people from lumping them together?