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Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

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FlareHabanero

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I still think people are over exaggerating the huge impact Golden Sun has had. I mean if it's such a hugely vital asset to Nintendo's portfolio of franchises, then why is ignored most of the time? Why is it despite the supposed popularity it's regulated to the sidelines and rarely brought up, and when it does it's abnormally minimal? Not to mention it doesn't even have the sense of revolutionary achievement to exactly justify it either.
 

N3ON

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I still think people are over exaggerating the huge impact Golden Sun has had. I mean if it's such a hugely vital asset to Nintendo's portfolio of franchises, then why is ignored most of the time? Why is it despite the supposed popularity it's regulated to the sidelines and rarely brought up, and when it does it's abnormally minimal?
In the entire stable of Nintendo series, sure, it's comparative impact is minimal. Compared to the remaining unrepresented series with feasible characters, its impact is towards the top of the list, higher than Xenoblade.
 

Arcanir

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Between the two, Palutena is probably the best choice. Along with being the titular character, she's a very popular pick, very important and didn't get Zant'd in the recent game still a bit bitter about that, as much as I love Hades. So Medusa doesn't have too much on her, she'd be a good choice for a villain rep alongside Hades (maybe even ahead of him depending on how you value certain factors), but not before Palutena.
 

?????????????

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Not that Shulk is a bad choice, but what was your reasoning for including him over Isaac? Even though his impact is more recent, the normal precedent is for Sakurai to include the Nintendo series that have left the biggest impacts and/or had the most popularity, of which Golden Sun definitely eclipses Xenoblade as a whole, both in terms of number of games and game-by-game impact, in addition to having a character with longevity as far as popularity goes, whereas, sure, Shulk's popularity was at its peak around when Sakurai was compiling the roster, which is a definite point in his favour, but his vocal demand is already waning, which Sakurai might've taken into account.
I don't want to use the term "recentness," but this is what I mean... to me, the really successful Golden Sun titles were back in the early 2000s, and Dark Dawn didn't have nearly the same impact as the first two. Xeno"stuff", by comparison, is not as well established on Nintendo yet, but it looks like it's growing on Nintendo faster (with "X"), and right now (as opposed to Golden Sun games which are complete surprises when they are announced). I also have a lot more confidence in the Xeno series growing, since even before Xenoblade and X, Monolith Soft already had done Xenogears and the Xenosaga series, with consistent releases. Xenoblade had limited release internationally, and that could hinder it, but I think it's more viable than a Golden Sun representative. Regardless, I don't (usually) see a huge vocal demand for either.

I think in addition to Palutena being the titular character of the series in Japan, and having a noticeably larger amount of popularity, the person who is making the roster this time is also the person who made Palutena the clear-cut secondary character of the series, even going so far as to include her in Smash last time in a unique role, while relegating the other to a Zant-like status. Personally I think the choice is quite clear.
Okay.
 

CalumG

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I still think people are over exaggerating the huge impact Golden Sun has had. I mean if it's such a hugely vital asset to Nintendo's portfolio of franchises, then why is ignored most of the time? Why is it despite the supposed popularity it's regulated to the sidelines and rarely brought up, and when it does it's abnormally minimal?
Typical Smash fan syndrome, really - people always big up the characters they want most, to the point of absolute hyperbole. The defining example for me is Takamaru, who is literally (for some reason) considered a shoe-in now when before Nintendo Land he was hardly spoken of as a character choice - despite the fact that the reason Murasame Castle was chosen as a minigame for Nintendo Land probably had way more to do with it being easy for EAD to use the property as opposed to, say, a second-party's IP. And yet, now he's allegedly being put 'back in the limelight' and people think Nintendo actually gives a crap about him.

People will always hear what they want to hear when it comes to matters such as 'importance' to Nintendo.
 

Sharkarat

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As for Isaac...he would be totally awesome in SSB, but I think Shulk is filling the kind of "role" that he would; I would see it as excessive.
I don't see what "role" that makes Isaac superflous, espessially when your roster contains toon zelda.
As for the choice of Medusa...I think Medusa does a lot more to broaden the spectrum of the series. Like Palutena, she's a recurring character of the series, and has just as much moveset potential (I would argue more) than Palutena. I also think it makes a lot more sense from a character standpoint; Medusa causes mayhem on her own and actively participates in battle, while Palutena's main line of fighting is sending out Pit, so I think Pit on his own is enough to represent "that side" of the Kid Icarus world, while Medusa broadens the representation out. I like Hades a lot too, and I think he would be the most fun to play as, but Medusa has a recurring role in the series, and I think adding her would create a "parallel" to the representation (Pit works under Palutena, Medusa works under Hades).

However, I completely forgot that Palutena is the titular character of the series in Japan. It would be like picking Ganondorf over Zelda to represent the "Legend of Zelda" series in that respect. Hm... what do you guys think? Is Medusa viable as the second Kid Icarus character, or is Palutena REALLY that much more obvious? I'll take it into serious consideration this time.
Personaly I think Palutena makes than Medusa, She is more reocurring, overall more important. And representing side hasn't really been something Smash has cared about.
 

?????????????

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The defining example for me is Takamaru, who is literally (for some reason) considered a shoe-in now when before Nintendo Land he was hardly spoken of as a character choice - despite the fact that the reason Murasame Castle was chosen as a minigame for Nintendo Land probably had way more to do with it being easy for EAD to use the property as opposed to, say, a second-party's IP. And yet, now he's allegedly being put 'back in the limelight' and people think Nintendo actually gives a crap about him.
Heh, I always found that funny. I had Takamaru on my roster LONG before Nintendo Land, simply because I thought he the best choice for retro character to follow-up Pit. Suddenly, when I start making videos again at the beginning of this summer, EVERYONE has Takamaru in their roster (well, at least...every roster I saw. Which is a lot. Cause of the "roster critique" thing).

I don't see what "role" that makes Isaac superflous, espessially when your roster contains toon zelda.
Tetra is definitely excess, but I think any new Mario rep, Zelda rep, and Kid Icarus rep is as well.

Regardless, my roster already includes Shulk, Little Mac, and Takamaru in addition to Villager and Wii Fit Trainer. I think that's plenty of misc. characters.
 

CalumG

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Heh, I always found that funny. I had Takamaru on my roster LONG before Nintendo Land, simply because I thought he the best choice for retro character to follow-up Pit. Suddenly, when I start making videos again at the beginning of this summer, EVERYONE has Takamaru in their roster (well, at least...every roster I saw. Which is a lot. Cause of the "roster critique" thing).
Pretty much, yeah. I don't think Takamaru is an unfitting character by any means, but I do find it kind of questionable that he wasn't put in many rosters or in many suggestion threads at all until Nintendo Land, at which point he suddenly retroactively became the hands-down best choice for a retro character, and allegedly had been all along.
 

Arcadenik

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Personally, I would love to have both Palutena and Medusa but we can't always get everything we want!

About Takamaru, I think it has to do with how Nintendo is giving Takamaru more attention now than before... pre-Brawl, he only had a GBA re-release of his NES game in Japan and his game's floppy disk had a cameo in Pikmin 2.... but post-Brawl, he was one of the NPCs in Captain Rainbow, and he was a playable guest character in the Wii version of Samurai Warriors 3, and now he has an attraction in Nintendo Land. His NES game was released on the Japanese Wii Virtual Console back in August 2008 (that's after Brawl came out). It seems like Nintendo is trying to get the Western audience to know about Takamaru through Samurai Warriors 3 and Nintendo Land. All these on top of Sakurai's comments about adding Takamaru in Smash if he got a new game (though he might change his mind about that... and just put Takamaru in Smash even if he didn't get a new game).
 

N3ON

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I don't want to use the term "recentness," but this is what I mean... to me, the really successful Golden Sun titles were back in the early 2000s, and Dark Dawn didn't have nearly the same impact as the first two. Xeno"stuff", by comparison, is not as well established on Nintendo yet, but it looks like it's growing on Nintendo faster (with "X"), and right now (as opposed to Golden Sun games which are complete surprises when they are announced). I also have a lot more confidence in the Xeno series growing, since even before Xenoblade and X, Monolith Soft already had done Xenogears and the Xenosaga series, with consistent releases. Xenoblade had limited release internationally, and that could hinder it, but I think it's more viable than a Golden Sun representative. Regardless, I don't (usually) see a huge vocal demand for either.
Fair enough, like I said, they're both good choices, but it seems that Sakurai doesn't include characters based on what the series could amount to in the future, but rather what it's already accomplished. Considering he won't be counting Xenogears or Xenosaga (as they aren't really part of the same series anyway - and not Nintendo), chances are he'll make his decision based on Xenoblade and Xenoblade alone (perhaps X, but not necessarily).

A parallel could be made between FE and GS at their times of inclusion. FE's biggest impact had been two gens previous, and even though they had more recent releases, they were of very limited exposure and mediocre reception. However the original, still popular protagonist was chosen over newer series and newer characters. Sure, they're not exactly the same, but it does show Sakurai's overall mentality towards these types of situations.

But it's your roster so I won't press the point anymore.

Typical Smash fan syndrome, really - people always big up the characters they want most, to the point of absolute hyperbole. The defining example for me is Takamaru, who is literally (for some reason) considered a shoe-in now when before Nintendo Land he was hardly spoken of as a character choice - despite the fact that the reason Murasame Castle was chosen as a minigame for Nintendo Land probably had way more to do with it being easy for EAD to use the property as opposed to, say, a second-party's IP. And yet, now he's allegedly being put 'back in the limelight' and people think Nintendo actually gives a crap about him.

People will always hear what they want to hear when it comes to matters such as 'importance' to Nintendo.
I've never pretended GS was one of Nintendo's A-List series, it's clearly C-List, or around there. I'm saying of the remaining feasible series, it's towards the top, which is the truth.

Also, props for defending Habanero's point by bashing a character he likes. :laugh:
 

YoshiandToad

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I still think people are over exaggerating the huge impact Golden Sun has had. I mean if it's such a hugely vital asset to Nintendo's portfolio of franchises, then why is ignored most of the time? Why is it despite the supposed popularity it's regulated to the sidelines and rarely brought up, and when it does it's abnormally minimal? Not to mention it doesn't even have the sense of revolutionary achievement to exactly justify it either.
I always thought it was down to the few remaining Nintendo IPs that aren't repped thus far and have more than one title. Of those, Golden Sun stands out as one of the more obvious choices, I suppose.

I don't think Isaac is hugely likely, even if he's a personal want(I liked the first two games!), but having him as an Assist Trophy shows that he's at least recognised by Sakurai and his team. At least as much as Stafy and Saki are.

People just want more IP rep I suppose.
 

FlareHabanero

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In the entire stable of Nintendo series, sure, it's comparative impact is minimal. Compared to the remaining unrepresented series with feasible characters, its impact is towards the top of the list, higher than Xenoblade.
Could argue when making comparisons to Golden Sun and Xenoblade Chronicles, does have some more perks then Golden Sun did in hindsight. The main one is the whole Operation Rainfall shenanigans, with Xenoblade Chronicles being one of three titles involved in the campaign and the title that gained the biggest cult. I guess it just feels more special in a sense, because it's an extremely rare case where Nintendo's usual sigma of denying localization for people outside of Japan is retaliated with an iron fist, and all because people wanted a title that got critical acclaim and came from well received developers.

Even if you ignore that, Xenoblade Chronicles is basically a successor (albeit in name only) to the critically acclaimed predecessors Xenogears and Xenosaga. So naturally there was already a sense of interest from both the press and the fans, and it's pretty clear it's not going to die off anytime soon with X coming sometime in 2014.
 

?????????????

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Fair enough, like I said, they're both good choices, but it seems that Sakurai doesn't include characters based on what the series could amount to in the future, but rather what it's already accomplished. Considering he won't be counting Xenogears or Xenosaga (as they aren't really part of the same series anyway - and not Nintendo), chances are he'll make his decision based on Xenoblade and Xenoblade alone (perhaps X, but not necessarily).
Yeah, my roommate (Rune342, the dude I do co-op LPs with) pretty much says the same thing. He sees why I made the choice I did, but would prefer Isaac as a much more established character; plus, he's played the other games of the Xeno series and tells me not to expect that Shulk himself would become an iconic recurring character, even if the Xeno series continues on Nintendo (as compared to Isaac, who is ALREADY established as Golden Sun's main hero...well, there's also Matthew...). I could see it going either way, but yes. Sakurai will probably make his choice on what has already happened, not based on the future.

So, what's going on today? Taking a break from the gigantic amount of schoolwork I have to do.
I've got work from 2:30-11. Don't have any homework due til Tuesday, and I don't have class on Monday until noon, so I'll save it for tomorrow morning.
 

N3ON

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Could argue when making comparisons to Golden Sun and Xenoblade Chronicles, does have some more perks then Golden Sun did in hindsight. The main one is the whole Operation Rainfall shenanigans, with Xenoblade Chronicles being one of three titles involved in the campaign and the title that gained the biggest cult. I guess it just feels more special in a sense, because it's an extremely rare case where Nintendo's usual sigma of denying localization for people outside of Japan is retaliated with an iron fist, and all because people wanted a title that got critical acclaim and came from well received developers.
Yes, and Rainfall is the only reason it's even in the league it is now, but as Nintendo refuses to admit the campaign actually affected Xenoblade, and the campaign didn't actually effect it in Japan, or at least not to any great extent, chances are while Rainfall was important to the fans, and did bolster Xenoblade to new levels, they aren't really levels that can match a series that has several times the audience size with clearly enduring popularity, at least among those that are vocal in their Smash desires.

Xenoblade is no slouch, which is why with one game it's even being categorized among series like GS, Punch-Out, and Starfy and not in the same league as like... Soma Bringer, which is likely where it would've ended up without Rainfall, but the campaign will only do so much to sway Nintendo themselves, even if it still resonates among the fans.

Even if you ignore that, Xenoblade Chronicles is basically a successor (albeit in name only) to the critically acclaimed predecessors Xenogears and Xenosaga. So naturally there was already a sense of interest from both the press and the fans, and it's pretty clear it's not going to die off anytime soon with X coming sometime in 2014.
Right, but games not in the same technical series and not made by Nintendo likely won't affect Sakurai's decision one way or another about Xenoblade itself, even if it does the fans and the press (though not enough to match the commercial reception of Xenogears or Xenosaga).
 

Louie G.

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His game is awesome, but it's easy :p
The only parts the were hard in Starfy was the final challenges in the last world and the true final boss. (KLAK-KIT-TY!!!)
Dat Final Boss.
BUTTONMASHBUTTONMASHBUTTONMASHBUTTONMASHBUTTONMASH

Edit: For the record, I never got World 10. How do you?
I was talking about Mashtooth. Took me a lot of Bowser's Inside Story to button mash with such skill.
 

?????????????

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I've seen Starfy come up quite a bit lately.
What's everyone's thoughts on him? His game was great, very underrated.
Starfy is strange. He had a good start, and a lot of games afterward, but suddenly stopped. The games were released in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006, and then the last one was in 2008.
 

Opossum

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As for the choice of Medusa...I think Medusa does a lot more to broaden the spectrum of the series. Like Palutena, she's a recurring character of the series, and has just as much moveset potential (I would argue more) than Palutena. I also think it makes a lot more sense from a character standpoint; Medusa causes mayhem on her own and actively participates in battle, while Palutena's main line of fighting is sending out Pit, so I think Pit on his own is enough to represent "that side" of the Kid Icarus world, while Medusa broadens the representation out. I like Hades a lot too, and I think he would be the most fun to play as, but Medusa has a recurring role in the series, and I think adding her would create a "parallel" to the representation (Pit works under Palutena, Medusa works under Hades).

However, I completely forgot that Palutena is the titular character of the series in Japan. It would be like picking Ganondorf over Zelda to represent the "Legend of Zelda" series in that respect. Hm... what do you guys think? Is Medusa viable as the second Kid Icarus character, or is Palutena REALLY that much more obvious? I'll take it into serious consideration this time.

I honestly do think Palutena's the obvious choice, mainly due to what N3ON said. Along with being the series namesake in Japan, and having Sakurai himself already delegate her as an extremely important character in Uprising, she's also got popularity on her side, much more so than Medusa. I guess she's just that likable. Plus, a light-based moveset could be really fun to use.

Pizzadudemanguy said:
The other idea I put into consideration was another "surprise" character, since I don't have one of my own. Ultimately though, I made the choice that Villager and Wii Fit Trainer were enough in that department, and with the addition of Shulk, the roster has enough miscellaneous newcomers (Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, Little Mac, Shulk, AND Takamaru). If I did this, my choice would be Muddy Mole.
Always nice to see Muddy Mole mentioned, haha. If you have time, feel free to stop by the Muddy thread /ShamelessPlug. But yeah, as far as surprises are concerned, Muddy's one of my favorite choices.
 

Louie G.

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Starfy is a big enough series to warrant Starfy himself I think.
Not that I think it will happen this time, but it easily could.
 

N3ON

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If Starfy had continued to get games, he'd probably be seen in a much higher regard in terms of likelihood at this point. Perhaps even to the point of Little Mac. I mean, he has several games under his belt, and he finally had a worldwide release. A successful worldwide release. Like pizzadudeman said, it's really strange they decided to halt the series right when it was reaching new levels.

Maybe TOSE and Nintendo ran into some disputes or something? In any case, even regardless of Smash, I hope he continues to get games in the future. I thought his previous ones (at least the ones I played) were pretty fun.
 
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Palutena is really the better choice between her and Medusa.

Though, as near unbelievable as the idea is, starting with Pit and Palutena then unlocking Medusa later on would be cool.
 

N3ON

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The only way I see getting three KI characters is if one is a semi-clone. Probably Medusa, based off Palutena.

Or Dark Pit I suppose, but I'd much rather have Medusa. And she's more important to the series anyway. But the chances of three are pretty damn minimal to say the least.
 

FlareHabanero

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Oh I was talking about this guy:
That Old Man Lobber you son of a *****. That boss fight actually threw me off when I faced him for the first time, because he's literally the only enemy that inflicts twice the damage and has an instant kill attack that is very tricky to dodge. It's one of those rare cases where you're almost guaranteed to die on your first time.
 

Louie G.

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Well I mean Starfy hasn't had a game since 2008, but neither has K. Rool. And Little Mac since 2009. I definitely wouldn't count him out because of a game hiatus, he could come back on 3DS any second now...
 

Sharkarat

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I would like to mention that Xenoblade's was getting a European release. It was not Operation Rainfall that brought it outside Japan. Even if it most Likely had effect on it's sales.
 

FlareHabanero

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Maybe TOSE and Nintendo ran into some disputes or something?
TOSE is a company that secretly collaborated with many projects uncredited. It's suggested the company has helped with many projects (suggested to be over a thousand), but has only been given credit for less then a hundred. Naturally, this suggests to me that due to a busy schedule there isn't really any spare time to develop a new game in The Legendary Starfy series.
 

N3ON

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TOSE is a company that secretly collaborated with many projects uncredited. It's suggested the company has helped with many projects (suggested to be over a thousand), but has only been given credit for less then a hundred. Naturally, this suggests to me that due to a busy schedule there isn't really any spare time to develop a new game in The Legendary Starfy series.
It's not like them having a busy schedule is anything new. Considering Starfy successfully expanded into a new, largely profitable market, seems they would at least attempt to prioritize that relatively highly.

And even if they are busy, which I assume they always are considering how many games they work on, busy enough to keep them preoccupied for FIVE YEARS without returning to Starfy?
 
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