Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[Opossum]

A character I see used in rosters often is Palutena from Kid Icarus, but why? I've heard many arguments for her, and I always have a counter argument for them. 1: "A new game came out." I don't see how one new game makes a difference, Pit was just added in Brawl as a classic/misc. character it seems weird for it to get a new rep all of a sudden, I mean it was dead for 15 years with only 2 games at the time, one of which wasn't released in Japan. Sure it's been revived, but it hasn't been a ongoing series like all the franchises with multiple reps. 2:"It was made by Sakurai." That may sound like a plus, however Sakurai doesn't like adding characters from the games he makes it took him up till the third game to add additional Kirby characters because he didn't wan't to over represent his own series and Kirby's a far bigger series then Kid Icarus. You may argue that Sakurai didn't create Kid Icarus or Palutena but he did make them relevant again and gave her a completely new personality and gave her all her powers, he defined who she is. Additionally Sakurai is not even interested in making a new Kid Icarus game. 3: "She's an important female character." I don't think being a female is a reason to add someone, if it is then Krystal should be in instead because she's more well known more popular and was a highly requested character for Brawl and still is highly requested. I'm not sure who's more requested now but still. 4: "Sakurai put all the effort into redesigning her for Brawl" I don't think that's enough to justify her inclusion, however Mach Rider was also redesigned in Melee and he has yet to become playable. 5: "She can fight and be unique" While I agree that she'd be unique she's not much of a fighter, yes she can fight but she tends not to, only fighting when she absolutely needs to, you can say the same for Peach and Zelda however they are super iconic and important to Nintendo Palutena not so much. I rather see Magnus because he's going out kicking butt and you can play as him. It's as if Sakurai made him in Uprising with the intension of adding him in Smash Bros, but I digress. 6: "Sakurai likes her a lot" As far as I've seen he doesn't let his bias get in the way of character choices. So those are my thoughts on Palutena, I don't hate her, I think she's a pretty cool character, I just don't see why so many people see her as a shoe-in, but who knows maybe there's something I'm missing.

I can see why you'd take that opinion, but you are forgetting arguably the most important thing that Palutena has going for her, and that is her popularity. Since Uprising's release, she has consistently been in the Top 10 (well, 11 in one poll) as far as what people want for SSB4. Sakurai tends to notice massive popularity and demand.

Not to mention that she's arguably even more important in Japan, as the series is named after her (being called "Palutena's Mirror," or something. I forget the exact title.), promoting her to essentially Zelda status for the Kid Icarus series.

But yeah. Plus, light magic and goddess powers. Quite a bit to work with there. Oh, and as a final note, KI:OMaM did get a Japanese release, albeit on the VC. Sort of a reverse Sin and Punishment scenario.

 

[Bajef8]

I really said like half of those points above you. In shorter phrases. Please read before you rant. Good points nonetheless. However Sakurai didn't create KI. He revived it. Big difference.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Well It's safe to assume the Forbidden 7 being 99% percent complete would mean they'd have been playable. Come on meow. Forbidden 7 most likely means they were at some point supposed to be playable. Sakurai has proven he doesn't forget. Ever see the other characters that were in development for 64 or Melee? Or did you know Final Smashes were actually intended for the 1st game?

There's a difference between all the characters he actually did intend for each game (All the content of 64 that was cut shows so) and having a folder in placement. Many fighting games start by bringing most of their roster, and wed on't know the true origins, so until further notice, it's really not much to go on. Yes, it's possible, but everyone overpraises the "Forbidden 7" like they need to tie it onto their t-shirt.

On a side note, I think it's safe to say Dark Pit and Claus (The Masked Man) are gonna be alt costumes again. Pit's black outfit is strikingly similar to Dark Pit in Brawl and Claus is literally an alt. costume for Lucas.

The people who want Masked Man, well, it would be Masked Man's form, not Claus.

 

[RavenKingSage]

A character I see used in rosters often is Palutena from Kid Icarus, but why? I've heard many arguments for her, and I always have a counter argument for them. 1: "A new game came out." I don't see how one new game makes a difference, Pit was just added in Brawl as a classic/misc. character it seems weird for it to get a new rep all of a sudden, I mean it was dead for 15 years with only 2 games at the time, one of which wasn't released in Japan. Sure it's been revived, but it hasn't been a ongoing series like all the franchises with multiple reps. 2:"It was made by Sakurai." That may sound like a plus, however Sakurai doesn't like adding characters from the games he makes it took him up till the third game to add additional Kirby characters because he didn't wan't to over represent his own series and Kirby's a far bigger series then Kid Icarus. You may argue that Sakurai didn't create Kid Icarus or Palutena but he did make them relevant again and gave her a completely new personality and gave her all her powers, he defined who she is. Additionally Sakurai is not even interested in making a new Kid Icarus game. 3: "She's an important female character." I don't think being a female is a reason to add someone, if it is then Krystal should be in instead because she's more well known more popular and was a highly requested character for Brawl and still is highly requested. I'm not sure who's more requested now but still. 4: "Sakurai put all the effort into redesigning her for Brawl" I don't think that's enough to justify her inclusion, however Mach Rider was also redesigned in Melee and he has yet to become playable. 5: "She can fight and be unique" While I agree that she'd be unique she's not much of a fighter, yes she can fight but she tends not to, only fighting when she absolutely needs to, you can say the same for Peach and Zelda however they are super iconic and important to Nintendo Palutena not so much. I rather see Magnus because he's going out kicking butt and you can play as him. It's as if Sakurai made him in Uprising with the intension of adding him in Smash Bros, but I digress. 6: "Sakurai likes her a lot" As far as I've seen he doesn't let his bias get in the way of character choices. So those are my thoughts on Palutena, I don't hate her, I think she's a pretty cool character, I just don't see why so many people see her as a shoe-in, but who knows maybe there's something I'm missing.

Most people agree that KI should have a second rep because Uprising has brought the franchise count up to 3, the same as Mother (which has 2 reps already). Uprising is contemporary and very successful.

As for Palutena herself, she is the second most important character to the KI series, the most popular by far, and has the best moveset potential. Yes, she fights only once, but once is all it takes to establish that she can fight.

Fun fact: In Japan, Kid Icarus is called "Light Myth: Palutena's Mirror." She's popular, important, recurring, and has a ton of great moveset potential. That's all that matters.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Palutena (Asides from Sakurai's modesty) is one of those characters that really doesn't have a lot going against her; I mean it's not a major amount for her, but really, I can't think of much to pit against her.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I can see why you'd take that opinion, but you are forgetting arguably the most important thing that Palutena has going for her, and that is her popularity. Since Uprising's release, she has consistently been in the Top 10 (well, 11 in one poll) as far as what people want for SSB4. Sakurai tends to notice massive popularity and demand.

Not to mention that she's arguably even more important in Japan, as the series is named after her (being called "Palutena's Mirror," or something. I forget the exact title.), promoting her to essentially Zelda status for the Kid Icarus series.

But yeah. Plus, light magic and goddess powers. Quite a bit to work with there. Oh, and as a final note, KI:OMaM did get a Japanese release, albeit on the VC. Sort of a reverse Sin and Punishment scenario.

I guess her popularity is high, but I just wonder if Sakurai thought of Palutena as a series contender as a Smash character and when exactly did her popularity as a Smash character become known to him. I'm assuming he chose which characters he was going to add before her popularity blew up. I also wonder how long her popularity is going to last, but I guess that's not really relevent. Another thing on popularity is that Geno was one of the most popular choices for Brawl, but wasn't added, he was over hyped and I think Palutena is over hyped too.

 

[Opossum]

As far as how Palutena's popularity will fair, other characters that may be considered "flavor of the month," such as Ghirahim and Zoroark, have died down in popularity, while Palutena remained popular.

And she doesn't have licensing issues like Geno, so the comparison doesn't fit.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Most people agree that KI should have a second rep because Uprising has brought the franchise count up to 3, the same as Mother (which has 2 reps already). Uprising is contemporary and very successful.

As for Palutena herself, she is the second most important character to the KI series, the most popular by far, and has the best moveset potential. Yes, she fights only once, but once is all it takes to establish that she can fight.

Fun fact: In Japan, Kid Icarus is called "Light Myth: Palutena's Mirror." She's popular, important, recurring, and has a ton of great moveset potential. That's all that matters.

The difference between Mother and Kid Icarus is that mother has been ongoing, a game on NES then SNES then GBA. With Kid Icarus it's game on NES game on GameBoy franchise dead for 20 years new game. The Mother series is a critically acclaimed game with a huge cult following, can't say the same for Kid Icarus. Finally Ness has been in Smash since the very beginning and is now representing the main protagonist of the most famous game and the most recent game, Pit was just added in the latest game and would be representing the main character and (while still important) a side character.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Goodbye Jon Talbain; hello Masked Man Sorry to all who liked my Jon Talbain avatar. I also added the Masked Man support thread and Probable Character roster to my sig, so please do support or at least dive in there and post to make my work feel less useless.

The one ultimate problem I see with Palutena is the requests now that we talk about it. Smash 4's development (Asides from pre-dev where there was probably a lot even before that) was straight after Kid Icarus, so nobody even knew if it would be deemed successful. A lot of the requested Melee characters for the most part are what made it in, or they earned it on their own merit. I think the same thing will happen with Brawl and characters just now requested for Smash 4 might get the shaft. I think the only ones that look around message boards anyways are the beta-testers and animators (To get more of an idea and feel for each character).

Though, once again, Palutena can easily make it on her own merits. She already made it in as a final smash last time, so it's not hard to see her as a character. I guess she just isn't shoe-in.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I really said like half of those points above you. In shorter phrases. Please read before you rant. Good points nonetheless. However Sakurai didn't create KI. He revived it. Big difference.

I'm sorry I didn't see your post and I planed this post beforehand and... wait half? The only points we both brought up were regarding Sakurai not liking to represent his own series and how he made Kid Icarus relevant again. How's that half? Also I did point out that Sakurai just revived it and didn't create it.

 

[Bajef8]

There's a difference between all the characters he actually did intend for each game (All the content of 64 that was cut shows so) and having a folder in placement. Many fighting games start by bringing most of their roster, and wed on't know the true origins, so until further notice, it's really not much to go on. Yes, it's possible, but everyone overpraises the "Forbidden 7" like they need to tie it onto their t-shirt.



The people who want Masked Man, well, it would be Masked Man's form, not Claus.

Agree completely. Im saying the Forbidden 7 merely suggests intent. Probably intended initially but dropped for whatever reasons later hence the random data chunks. There's not huge weight with the Forbidden 7, just saying it shouldn't be discounted as unimportant.

I know about the Masked Man. I was just pointing out he got a nod in Brawl and personally think that's his fate. However I could see him being an interesting addition for sure.

And Godzilla, there was just a lot of words and i saw some recurring phrases and thoughts I've previously stated. Sorry for the incorrect estimate lol. 1/6 sound better?

 

[TKactual]

Alright everyone, list off an idea or 2 for the weekly contest thingy I came up with yesterday. (If you didn't catch that post I'll explain the details later). An idea that is preferably a PC game that can be played competitively and it is something that most of us can participate in. Also I know that it has been talked about before, but really what hasn't been talked about at this point. So refresh my memory how does everyone feel about Lloyd?

 

[8-peacock-8]

Most people here actually want Lloyd when it comes to a Namco rep.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Yuri and Luke > Cress > Lloyd in more ways than one

But hey, any Tales Of main protagonist that works is okay with me. I prefer Lloyd over the other unlisted choices.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Alright everyone, list off an idea or 2 for the weekly contest thingy I came up with yesterday. (If you didn't catch that post I'll explain the details later). An idea that is preferably a PC game that can be played competitively and it is something that most of us can participate in. Also I know that it has been talked about before, but really what hasn't been talked about at this point. So refresh my memory how does everyone feel about Lloyd?

Most everyone likes him.

About half of us think Pac-man has a better shot, but I haven't seen anyone dislike the character.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I think we're probably seeing Lloyd (Or another Tales Of) or Pac-Man, honestly.

There's not much TO dislike about Lloyd, well, at least for Smash Bros and not from his regular game. Same with Yuri, Luke, and to an extent, Cress. He has two swords (Something most Ninty characters, if not all, don't have) and an interesting playstyle along with a good aesthetic appeal and has proven himself interesting in Soul Calibur. What's not to like? (Well, as I said, asides from his original game.)

 

[FlareHabanero]

I disagree with the notion of Pac-man having a better shot, mainly because no interest of any sort has been expressed about the character from staff, unlike in the case with a possible Tales or Tekken character.

Remember, interest is a bit of a factor with these third party characters.

 

[Deleted member]

Alright everyone, list off an idea or 2 for the weekly contest thingy I came up with yesterday. (If you didn't catch that post I'll explain the details later). An idea that is preferably a PC game that can be played competitively and it is something that most of us can participate in. Also I know that it has been talked about before, but really what hasn't been talked about at this point. So refresh my memory how does everyone feel about Lloyd?

Neutral on a Tales rep. Could introduce some neat mechanics into the game and I'm curious about how a Tales character would be implemented in the game.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Jade or Repede for Assist Trophy.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Well in theory, adding a character from the Tales series would work out very easily due to the emphasis on combat the titles typically display. In fact, some of the earlier titles like Tales of Phantasia had combat that was reminiscent to traditional fighting games at the time, complete with button combinations.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I like Lloyd, but having him over Namcos big mascot just seems odd.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I like Lloyd, but having him over Namcos big mascot just seems odd.

hi snake (then again idk too much about konami but it wouldn't be that odd after lloyd's appearence in Soul Calibur and other appearences around)

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I know this is WAAAY off topic, but a friend of mine told me Banjo-Kazooie 4 was announced by Rare. Can anyone tell me if this is actually true or not?

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I disagree with the notion of Pac-man having a better shot, mainly because no interest of any sort has been expressed about the character from staff, unlike in the case with a possible Tales or Tekken character.

Remember, interest is a bit of a factor with these third party characters.

Well let's just pretend that Pac-Man is planned for the new Smash game if they're working on Pac-Man they're not going to show interest in adding him because they already know he's going to be in.

 

[Banjodorf]

Alright everyone, list off an idea or 2 for the weekly contest thingy I came up with yesterday. (If you didn't catch that post I'll explain the details later). An idea that is preferably a PC game that can be played competitively and it is something that most of us can participate in. Also I know that it has been talked about before, but really what hasn't been talked about at this point. So refresh my memory how does everyone feel about Lloyd?

I'm not really sure about what PC game could be played; but I'm pretty Ok with Lloyd, I like him as an option alot better than Pac-Man, and I'm not entirely sure why Pac-Man is considered such a "shoe-in" as the Namco rep.

I know this is WAAAY off topic, but a friend of mine told me Banjo-Kazooie 4 was announced by Rare. Can anyone tell me if this is actually true or not?

Shh!

Spoiler

This image popped up somewhere, and we're pretty sure it's fake, but I think that's where its coming from. Still a possibility though. Sigh.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

hi snake (then again idk too much about konami but it wouldn't be that odd after lloyd's appearence in Soul Calibur and other appearences around)

Yeah, Snake is Konami's big mascot.

 

[TKactual]

Thanks for telling me how you feel about lloyd guys. Out of all the characters discussed that is who I want the most for super smash 4. No one has any ideas for the weekly contest? Which I hope everyone participates in. Or do I just have to rely on myself, Manly, and Swampasaur for ideas.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Yeah, Snake is Konami's big mascot.

Konami doesn't have a mascot.

 

[MagnesD3]

I'm not really sure about what PC game could be played; but I'm pretty Ok with Lloyd, I like him as an option alot better than Pac-Man, and I'm not entirely sure why Pac-Man is considered such a "shoe-in" as the Namco rep.



Shh!

Spoiler

This image popped up somewhere, and we're pretty sure it's fake, but I think that's where its coming from. Still a possibility though. Sigh.

Spoiler, it will be awful.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm not really sure about what PC game could be played; but I'm pretty Ok with Lloyd, I like him as an option alot better than Pac-Man, and I'm not entirely sure why Pac-Man is considered such a "shoe-in" as the Namco rep.

The only reason why Pac-Man gets the most support for a Namco character in the West is because of the Tales's relative obscurity in here. In Japan where Tales is much bigger, a Tales rep is very strongly demanded (only Mega Man is more requested for a third-party). Had Tales experienced similar popularity in the West, a Tales rep would definitely be among the Top 10 most wanted characters.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Well let's just pretend that Pac-Man is planned for the new Smash game if they're working on Pac-Man they're not going to show interest in adding him because they already know he's going to be in.

That logic doesn't really work. That's all hypothetical and there is nothing to prove it.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Tales Of isn't even that obscure here. Granted it's no Call of Duty or Mario Bros, but it sells pretty damn well in the U.S. most of the time.

 

[Deleted member]

Konami doesn't have a mascot.

Konami Man.
and the scantily clad Konami Lady.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

P

Konami doesn't have a mascot.

Ok, but he's still Konami's biggest character and just one of the most iconic video game characters in general.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Konami Man.
and the scantily clad Konami Lady.

...wat

 

[Deleted member]

...wat

Look it up.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Konami Man.
and the scantily clad Konami Lady.

Oh right, that's a thing.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

...i don't even

I mean the fanart redone looks nice but wow. No words. Speechless.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Speaking of Tales, I'm considering getting a Tales of game. Which one would you recommend to a beginner?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Speaking of Tales, I'm considering getting a Tales of game. Which one would you recommend to a beginner?

I'm in the middle of Symphonia, and it is GREAT. It's my first Tales game also. Definitely recommend it.