Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[Thirdkoopa]

Hey, it was atleast more than zero.

.01%

Dark Pit or Magnus as a third KI rep? I think i'll go with the character that isn't a literal clone and can't be used as a costume. Also Medusa>>>Magnus

Magnus is fine; I don't see how he's similar to many others, but as I said, Hades. Or I guess maybe Medusa. Still, no to a third character.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Man, I got get my head straight, I meant Masked Man is in the middle league between all partners of the Mother series (Paula, Jeff, Kumatora) in terms of best representaton of the Mother series.

 

[8-peacock-8]

.01%

Magnus is fine; I don't see how he's similar to many others, but as I said, Hades. Or I guess maybe Medusa. Still, no to a third character.

I'm just listing characters who would make better use of the slot.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Now with actual real characters

I'm just listing characters who would make better use of the slot.

Are you against Toon Link?

 

[8-peacock-8]

I forgot to mention that you have too many characters.

Props for including Balloon Fighter though.

Are you against Toon Link?

No. Because he has a lot more options then Dark Pit and has a higher chance of becoming his own character.

Both Dark Pit and Pit share the same type of moveset potential. Theres a good chance that Dark Pit would just be a last minute clone anyway.

 

[Ultinarok]

Now with actual real characters

I'm gonna be honest. The only ones I don't support are Goku (would be cool, and Namco-Bandai are helping with Smash 4 and have made virtually every single DBZ fighting game, but he's not even third party...he's fourth party.), Nester (????????????), Ninten (outdated sadly), Balloon Fighter (just can't see a moveset working for him), N (kind of redundant with P. Trainer), Prince Sable (??????) and Dark Pit (no third KI rep, would rather have a 4th FE rep).

 

[BluePikmin11]

There's plenty characters that deserve a spot in SSB4.

 

[FourStar]

There's plenty characters that deserve a spot in SSB4.

but when has goku been involved with anything nintendo related?

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Ninten's not even just outdated. He has everything going against him and the kitchen sink, plus last I checked, the developers of the series don't even consider him a unique entity. I've played all three games recently to notice that.

Oh, and to add to that, we've seen that Sakurai doesn't care too much about overrepping ___ game or any evenness so...

And Goku is just what. Prince Sable or Nester would be good as a WTF (Esp if you've already got a retro on-hand). As much as I like Tom Nook I really doubt that.

 

[FalKoopa]

There's plenty characters that deserve a spot in SSB4.

Ridley, K. Rool, Palutena, B&K, Mewtwo.

5 isn't a big number.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Goku (would be cool, and Namco-Bandai are helping with Smash 4 and have made virtually every single DBZ fighting game

Namco has no say on if Goku gets in or not. Just because they have publishers rights to his video games doesn't mean they can choose if he can get into other things or not. Thats Shonen Jump's job since they own the franchise and the character.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I'm gonna be honest. The only ones I don't support are Goku (would be cool, and Namco-Bandai are helping with Smash 4 and have made virtually every single DBZ fighting game, but he's not even third party...he's fourth party.), Nester (Actually I would remove him, but I needed a retro rep), Ninten (Missing hero of the Mother series), Balloon Fighter (Check his thread, he has plenty of movesets), N (5th Generation has plenty of Pokemon that are awesome), Prince Sable (It's a great Gameboy rep) and Dark Pit (I think Sakurai would add Dark Pit for his own interest).

Read quote above

 

[Thirdkoopa]

B&K

huh what who what did i miss

 

[BluePikmin11]

but when has goku been involved with anything nintendo related?

He had games with Nintendo systems since the 1980s.

 

[Ultinarok]

Ridley, K. Rool, Palutena, B&K, Mewtwo.

5 isn't a big number.

No Isaac? You could argue that Golden Sun's time has come and gone, but they HAVE had a new game since Brawl, helping Isaac's chances.
No Paper Mario either? He practically represents his own series now, with FOUR full entries that have all done well (he is technically a Mario character, but like Yoshi and Wario, I consider PM to be its own branched-off series).

 

[BluePikmin11]

No Isaac? You could argue that Golden Sun's time has come and now, but they HAVE had a new game since Brawl, helping Isaac's chances.
No Paper Mario either? He practically represents his own series now, with FOUR full entries that have all done well (he is technically a Mario character, but like Yoshi and Wario, I consider PM to be its own branched-off series).

I think Shulk is better than Isaac for the addition new RPG rep.

 

[Opossum]

Not to mention, why add Prince of Sable as a Gameboy retro when you have Muddy Mole, whose game was at least released internationally?

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I think Shulk is better than Isaac for the addition new RPG rep.

...because?...

I don't even.

 

[Frostwraith]

Especially Dark Pit. If anything he'd be a costume that would also give Pit a different voice.

As a Dark Pit supporter, I wouldn't mind this.

Also iirc he was played by the same voice actor anyways so..

Correct. Pit and Dark Pit share the same voice actor in both Japanese and English versions.

Masked Man is outdated but Ninten isn't?

Wow...

Masked Man is from a game released in 2006 while Ninten is from a game released in the late 80's...
How can Masked Man be more outdated than Ninten? (O_O);

Anyway, regarding Dark Pit and Ninten...

The only way Dark Pit can get in as a separate character is by giving him a different weapon, but seeing that his main weapon in Uprising is the Silver Bow, he loses that advantage. The other weapon he has is his the staff that bears his name, which could mean a different moveset.
I think that, if Dark Pit had used his staff more often in Uprising, he would be more supported.

(Note for those who haven't played Kid Icarus: Uprising - Staff weapons in KIU are more like sniping rifles rather than your typical magic staff like the ones Krystal and Palutena have.)

While Dark Pit has the weapon argument to favor him, Ninten has basically the same powers as Ness.
But even so, I can think of ways that Ninten could be different from both Ness and Lucas: using PSI attacks the other two don't use.

I could even say the same for Toon Link, but knowing Sakurai... Ninten and Dark Pit would likely end up as clone characters, hence why no one really supports them. Now, if Dark Pit gets in as a separate character, but has a unique moveset... Toon Link better have one too, or there will be raging.

 

[Ultinarok]

I think Shulk is better than Isaac for the addition new RPG rep.

I kind of disagree, but I completely understand.

Namco has no say on if Goku gets in or not. Just because they have publishers rights to his video games doesn't mean they can choose if he can get into other things or not. Thats Shonen Jump's job since they own the franchise and the character.

I'm well aware of that. However there may be some aptitude to add Goku when the collaborating company has years of experience implementing him into fighting games. Basically, he isn't Namco-Bandai property, but they make all of the modern games with him in it and are now helping with Smash. Thus, Goku could be a surprise WTF character as a reference to their own fighting series, but its EXTREMELY improbable.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

It's a bit presumptuous to say that we know everyone who "deserves" a spot in, don't you think?

 

[BluePikmin11]

Not to mention, why add Prince of Sable as a Gameboy retro when you have Muddy Mole, whose game was at least released internationally?

Because Sakurai is big fan of For the Frogs and Bell Tolls. (In fact, I watched an entire playthrough of the game, I enjoyed it fully, I think his inclusion is better than Muddy Mole.

@thethirdkoopa Shulk is from a RPG, Isaac is also from an RPG. Shulk holds better for that RPG spot.

It's a bit presumptuous to say that we know everyone who "deserves" a spot in, don't you think?

Well there are plenty of characters for the past few years that have grown some popularity over time (Shulk, Chrom, N)

 

[Opossum]

Because Sakurai is big fan of For the Frogs and Bell Tolls. (In fact, I watched an entire playthrough of the game, I enjoyed it fully, I think his inclusion is better than Muddy Mole.

@thethirdkoopa Shulk is from a RPG, Isaac is also from an RPG. Shulk holds better for that RPG spot.

Source?

 

[FalKoopa]

No Isaac? You could argue that Golden Sun's time has come and gone, but they HAVE had a new game since Brawl, helping Isaac's chances.
No Paper Mario either? He practically represents his own series now, with FOUR full entries that have all done well (he is technically a Mario character, but like Yoshi and Wario, I consider PM to be its own branched-off series).

Well they are most deserving ones, I think.

Now please, I don't want to start a storm based on that.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Source?

I read the Sable's thread

I was and and still am in full support of him. Important to note however that in older smash journal entries from sakurai, he got an email about Sable

Essentially, the fan asked if he could put Prince Sable AND Prince Richard in the game. In response, Sakurai said somewhere along the lines that he's a big fan of the game but doesn't think Prince Richard warrants an inclusion as well

So far so good right? He then went on that the idea of a "tag-team" character that involves both sable and richard would be interesting, as he wants to explore that idea in the "future"

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Correct. Pit and Dark Pit share the same voice actor in both Japanese and English versions.

Yes! I should get points for every time I remember something really obscure to one of these threads.

@thethirdkoopa Shulk is from a RPG, Isaac is also from an RPG. Shulk holds better for that RPG spot.

Golden Sun has three games (With a fourth one happening like 90% for sure after the ending to 3), is the last important Nintendo franchise to be held, reps an important part of Nintendo that people notice (Unlike the game that in the U.S. was sold by only Gamestop's and Japan goes nuts for it's RPG's regardless), and probably has more you can add to it.. Xenoblade did around as well as Last Story and better than Pandora's Tower. That's... about it.

There's probably more you can add to Shulk and don't get me wrong, I think both should be in, but Isaac is easily the more important character even if Shulk's the only one who makes it in. Trust me, I didn't even think people knew about Golden Sun until I found out a surprising amount of my friends have touched the games. Also both are from two very different gameplay styles. Golden Sun mixes up and differs itself from most generic RPG's, Xenoblade is like Final Fantasy 12 done right/Action/Very Star Ocean esque. It's like saying Mother and Fire Emblem have a lot of similarities. Hell, those two series and Pokemon have more together than GOlden Sun or Xenoblade.

 

[FalKoopa]

I read the Sable's thread

He doesn't quote a source either. Can't believe yet.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Not sure how he got Sakurai's email but another thing to note is Smash emails are replied to often in sort of the same way. Many fans messaged about the likes of Ridley, Krystal, Masked Man, and so on, so asides from the Ice Climber thing (which many characters could do that anyways) I don't really see that as much.

 

[Opossum]

I read that entire thread, and despite many people asking for a source, no sources were given.

 

[Frostwraith]

Yes! I should get points for every time I remember something really obscure to one of these threads.

Why don't you start counting those points right now?

Still, the fact that both Pit and Dark Pit share the same actor could at least result in Pit having an Easter Egg when picking his black costume, where the voice clips are changed. Or maybe have a set of darker costumes and that would replace his voice with Dark Pit's when using them.

Also, I can't understand why would Shulk's inclusion stop Isaac from being included. The RPG justification is completely insane.
By that logic, we wouldn't have both Ness and the two Pokémon characters in the original Smash, because both were from RPGs.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Why don't you start counting those points right now?

It'd be too many considering I reference many Pre-Brawl facts that people didn't know about but I can try!

Also, I can't understand why would Shulk's inclusion stop Isaac from being included. The RPG justification is completely insane.
By that logic, we wouldn't have both Ness and the two Pokémon characters in the original Smash, because both were from RPGs.

Yeah I don't think genre matters much, especially in a game of favorites and RPG's are a loved favorite. Really, both have earned their spot for different reasons. The RPG's aren't even in the same genre! Last time we received Lucas, Lucario, PT, and Ike. Many Nintendo series fall under Platforming or Adventuring already anyways.

 

[Banjodorf]

Masked Man is basically just personal preference, but I don't think Sakurai would pick a character that has been already been outdated.

Wait...wait a minute. So the most successful game in the series and the one that really brings home the feel of what the Mother series is about is outdated when introducing an incredibly important, different character, with his own design and moves, but Mother 1, a game most tend to forget about or have never played that introduces a character to later be replaced by a protagonist with the same design and virtually the same moves is ok? (The onle way to play it in English is to use translated Mother 1+2, which is far less accessible than the fan translation of 3.

Look, I'm not going to bash people for being fans of Ninten or going the whole "But see, if they add Ninten, then they have all the protagonists" route, because that's a logical thinking direction. What's not logical is when you consider that two of those protagonists are essentially the exact same character.

While Lucas and Masked Man may have some obvious similarities, the design of the Masked Man character is different enough that it would make much more sense to have him. Granted, I don't think he's likely, but I'll fight tooth and nail for his inclusion.

And how is the most recent antagonist outdated? Over 1st generation Ness, who hasn't appeared save for a sticker and a port in decades? I'm really just trying to understand why people can think that.

 

[Ultinarok]

Well they are most deserving ones, I think.

Now please, I don't want to start a storm based on that.

Oh don't worry I'm not planning on starting a storm, I just wondered what you thought of those two.

On another note, when it comes to getting in, it feels like there are various categories:

1. Those who are so obvious, well-supported and anticipated that they are deemed to "deserve to get in, and are considered by some to be shoe-ins. Basically, if there is near unanimous support for a character and they are glaringly obvious candidates who have plenty of potential and have been wanted for a long time, they fit in this category. This includes Ridley, K. Rool, Mewtwo and even Isaac.
2. Those who are both wanted and expected, due to being popular and contemporary. Basically, if there is a fairly large consensus towards a new character, they are sensible to promote, and they have been in a recent game that would mark their good chances at a Smash appearance, they fit in here. This would include Shulk, Chrom, Ghirahim and Palutena.
3. Those who are wanted, but not expected, because of relevance issues/licensing/overrepresentation etc. Any character who is still very popular and desired but is not very likely to get in for any number of reasons, fits in this category. This would include Krystal, Lyn and Geno.
4. Those who are somewhat wanted, and not expected. This would be similar to the above category, but with less popularity and support due to a greater level of acceptance towards their low odds. This would include E. Gadd, Lip, Masked Man and Kamek.
5. Those who are so absurd or ridiculous, that they are neither marginally wanted nor EVER expected, yet people bring them up anyway. This would include Goku, Cloud Strife, Slender Man, Sabrina the Teenage Witch etc.

At least this is how I've observed the trend based on my years of watching people post on this board. Thus, I judge who I expect to be in the game based on who falls into the 1st and 2nd categories.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I'm really just trying to understand why people can think that.

People who don't know anything about the series or not as much as others. The ones that do usually just say Masked Man and end it from there.

 

[RavenKingSage]

Just took a trip to Youtube to check out some roster predictions.

A LOT of people don't know what they're talking about.

YouTube's Smash community is poop and is around the same level of disgusting as GameFAQs, although this goes without saying. There are a few decent people every now and then (such as some who came here from YouTube), but I can say with assurance that I wouldn't want many of these people touching this board.

Are you guys referring to everybody on YouTube who has a roster and explains it poorly (if at all), or the people like Narutendo3, LordJackal, olekidsf, ScatmansWorld, GoldenLotus, Koddra, pizzadudemanguy, and me who devote their channels to SSB4 content and take the speculation seriously?

 

[8-peacock-8]

Are you guys referring to everybody on YouTube who has a roster and explains it poorly (if at all), or the people like Narutendo3, LordJackal, olekidsf, ScatmansWorld, GoldenLotus, Koddra, pizzadudemanguy, and me who devote their channels to SSB4 content and take the speculation seriously?

Not everyone. Just the majority. There are a few decent people in YT's smash community. cjszero

 

[RavenKingSage]

Not everyone. Just the majority. There are a few decent people in YT's smash community. Pizzadudemanguy, cjszero, etc.

I don't consider CH much of a speculator since his one prediction list is years outdated and his other SSB-related videos are wish lists.

But yeah, I really wish the idiots would get out of there. Those of us who take speculation seriously (everyone I listed) are given a bad name because of them.

 

[8-peacock-8]

I don't consider CH much of a speculator since his one prediction list is years outdated and his other SSB-related videos are wish lists.

But yeah, I really wish the idiots would get out of there. Those of us who take speculation seriously (everyone I listed) are given a bad name because of them.

I find Cjszero him to be the most likable since he does other things like doing MTCHW's. (Music That Could Have Worked) Especially the recent one he did for Xenoblade.

 

[Bajef8]

She's a huge deal in Japan and Sakurai's new favourite toy since he made the new Kid Icarus game and gave here a huge role. Palutena will almost definitely be in.

I think this qualifies as someone saying she'd definitely be in earlier. Saying almost definitely is like saying almost yes. There's either yes or no, you can't have almost of an absolute.

I think one important point that solidifies Marth and Ike's spots and separates them from characters like Roy or Lyn is that they have been in at least 2 Fire Emblem games. And 3 now if you include Awakening.

After Awakening, Roy gets 2.

Can we stop Forbidden 7 references so much? We don't even know if they got ninety-nine percent done or just nine.

Well It's safe to assume the Forbidden 7 being 99% percent complete would mean they'd have been playable. Come on meow. Forbidden 7 most likely means they were at some point supposed to be playable. Sakurai has proven he doesn't forget. Ever see the other characters that were in development for 64 or Melee? Or did you know Final Smashes were actually intended for the 1st game?

You obviously never played KI:U (Sakurai revived this series)
Ninten can still be the last Earthbound character.
And what's wrong with two additional 3rd parties. O-o

I literally already said Sakurai revived the series. Read the whole recent discussion. He revived it therefore he can be considered to be closely related to the series. Sakurai created Kirby. Sakurai didn't add new Kirby reps til Brawl and it's a very popular series. Plus KI is not nearly as large as most other Nintendo series, or Kirby for that matter. Therefore it's safe to assume he probably won't add a new KI rep, however if he did, there'd only be 1 newbie. Not 2. And especially not Dark Pit.

Additional 3rd parties, not a problem. Having 4 and Goku? No. Sakurai has stated he doesn't want to overpopulate Smash with a ton of them. It ruins the essence of Smash. There may be 1 new addition or 0 honestly. 2 would be shocking. Goku would....not happen. Ever.

1. There are 13 games now, approximately the same number as LoZ, which also has 4 reps. They've also sold quite well.

Big means how much of an impact a game made for Nintendo, not just the sheer amount of games. Plus you'd need to balance the whole roster. If it was sheer number of games, Mario, for example would be massive, and Pokemon's numerous games would also mean tons o' reps. So that's why I'm thinking 3 reps. When you think Nintendo, you don't automatically go, Oh FE. You think Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, even Metroid. FE isn't on par with those series...yet at least. Maybe in a long while.

On a side note, I think it's safe to say Dark Pit and Claus (The Masked Man) are gonna be alt costumes again. Pit's black outfit is strikingly similar to Dark Pit in Brawl and Claus is literally an alt. costume for Lucas.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

A character I see used in rosters often is Palutena from Kid Icarus, but why? I've heard many arguments for her, and I always have a counter argument for them. 1: "A new game came out." I don't see how one new game makes a difference, Pit was just added in Brawl as a classic/misc. character it seems weird for it to get a new rep all of a sudden, I mean it was dead for 15 years with only 2 games at the time, one of which wasn't released in Japan. Sure it's been revived, but it hasn't been a ongoing series like all the franchises with multiple reps. 2:"It was made by Sakurai." That may sound like a plus, however Sakurai doesn't like adding characters from the games he makes it took him up till the third game to add additional Kirby characters because he didn't wan't to over represent his own series and Kirby's a far bigger series then Kid Icarus. You may argue that Sakurai didn't create Kid Icarus or Palutena but he did make them relevant again and gave her a completely new personality and gave her all her powers, he defined who she is. Additionally Sakurai is not even interested in making a new Kid Icarus game. 3: "She's an important female character." I don't think being a female is a reason to add someone, if it is then Krystal should be in instead because she's more well known more popular and was a highly requested character for Brawl and still is highly requested. I'm not sure who's more requested now but still. 4: "Sakurai put all the effort into redesigning her for Brawl" I don't think that's enough to justify her inclusion, however Mach Rider was also redesigned in Melee and he has yet to become playable. 5: "She can fight and be unique" While I agree that she'd be unique she's not much of a fighter, yes she can fight but she tends not to, only fighting when she absolutely needs to, you can say the same for Peach and Zelda however they are super iconic and important to Nintendo Palutena not so much. I rather see Magnus because he's going out kicking butt and you can play as him. It's as if Sakurai made him in Uprising with the intension of adding him in Smash Bros, but I digress. 6: "Sakurai likes her a lot" As far as I've seen he doesn't let his bias get in the way of character choices. So those are my thoughts on Palutena, I don't hate her, I think she's a pretty cool character, I just don't see why so many people see her as a shoe-in, but who knows maybe there's something I'm missing.