Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[Autumn ♫]

Swordplay and dark energy is all but already done plenty. The rest of what you're mentioning is specific moves, not a playstyle.

Again, how does he stand out from the rest of the cast more than Waddle Dee, who would be the sole spear-based fighter of the series?

We have plenty of dark energy? Could you name out characters please because all I can think of is Ganondorf.

 

[Hotfeet444]

We have plenty of dark energy? Could you name out characters please because all I can think of is Ganondorf.

I think he also means Mewtwo as well, but that should be discarded as Mewtwo will most likely be very different when he comes back.

 

[Espio264]

Oooh. Sonic Adventure stage with Perfect Chaos hazard. I can't handle waiting for a Sonic confirmation.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Oooh. Sonic Adventure stage with Perfect Chaos hazard. I can't handle waiting for a Sonic confirmation.

Could happen for a Sonic Generations Stage since Perfect Chaos was a boss.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

In terms of another Kirby rep., I'd say are the only ones in the running are Bandana Dee and Prince Fluff.

 

[SuperBrawler]

Bandana Dee = one off

 

[Espio264]

Could happen for a Sonic Generations Stage since Perfect Chaos was a boss.

Busted up highway over water with Chaos wrecking buildings in the background... Sonic deserves a bigger chunk of this game. And you know... Everyone else deserves corresponding chunks. Mewtwo gets a free extra chunk for missing Brawl.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

Bandana Dee = one off

Meowth = One off

 

[Chandeelure]

In terms of another Kirby rep., I'd say are the only ones in the running are Bandana Dee and Prince Fluff.

Finally someone says that...
NO Magolor,NO Marx and NO Dark Matter.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Finally someone says that...
NO Magolor,NO Marx and NO Dark Matter.

That's nice.

 

[BluePikmin11]

How bout Mewtwo has only his X and Y form but not his normal form, that seems most comfortable for me without splicing too much space.

 

[Hotfeet444]

How bout Mewtwo has only his X and Y form but not his normal form, that seems most comfortable for me without splicing too much space.

Maybe if he had one new form that'd be fine, but right now, nope, it's most definitely going to be Normal Mewtwo, as it is the REAL Mewtwo. It doesn't need to transform, and now since it has two forms, it can't as they can't pick favorites.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

Leaving Mewtwo's original form is dumb. It's his most iconic and most loved form.

 

[Espio264]

How bout Mewtwo has only his X and Y form but not his normal form, that seems most comfortable for me without splicing too much space.

I think most people would be for that if the mega forms weren't just an mid-battle transformation. Plus classic Mewtwo is awesome. However Mega Lucario is possibly cooler than the original. Not Mega Charizard though, he's kinda goofy looking.

 

[Hotfeet444]

I think most people would be for that if the mega forms weren't just an mid-battle transformation. Plus classic Mewtwo is awesome. However Mega Lucario is possibly cooler than the original. Not Mega Charizard though, he's kinda goofy looking.

Mega Charizard is going to be mega overrated just like its normal form, just watch. Also....

The sad part is the overratedness of Mega Charizard will overshadow how freaking AWESOME Mega Blastoise is. Now, I'm not a Squirtle user, never cared for the line, but THIS...THIS makes me want to use a Squirtle. LOOK AT THAT CANNON! And those two arm cannons! Somewhere right now, Genesect is crying in a corner from jealousy over the majesty of that freaking rail gun cannon on Mega Blastoise's back.

 

[Chandeelure]

I hope that lucario can come back for this version of the game,but with a new moveset,a moveset that actually looks like fighting type and not psychic or ghost XD

 

[jaytalks]

Hiroshi Yamauchi, president of Nintendo from 1949 to 2002, has passed away at the age of 85. Rest in peace, Hiroshi Yamauchi, without you, none of the discussions on this site would be ever possible.

I think a fitting tribute to the man would be dedicate the next Smash Brothers to him. He made this game possible.

 

[Espio264]

Mega Charizard is going to be mega overrated just like its normal form, just watch. Also....

The sad part is the overratedness of Mega Charizard will overshadow how freaking AWESOME Mega Blastoise is. Now, I'm not a Squirtle user, never cared for the line, but THIS...THIS makes me want to use a Squirtle. LOOK AT THAT CANNON! And those two arm cannons! Somewhere right now, Genesect is crying in a corner from jealousy over the majesty of that freaking rail gun cannon on Mega Blastoise's back.

I know, right. I almost want them to realign PT with Bulbasaur, Charmeleon and Blastoise so we can see that in the game. Mega Blastoise wins.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

His move-set style would be based around the use of limited Sword attacks with the mixture of the power of Dark Matter, being able to forge together dark creations out of thin air to attack the opponent. He wouldn't be a character based around his sword, but his sword more like the stick for a maestro, commanding the Dark Matter to do as he pleases. Imagine something like Chaos 0 from Sonic Battle, a character who could take his body and stretch and change it around to amazing proportions to attack, Dark Matter would be almost no different. He could alter his body to create eyes that will fire blasts of energy, the power of raining swords on people has never been done before, The Dark Matter transforming into powerful beasts for Smash attacks to deal heavy damage, the amount of Dark Matter is endless, so so are the possiblities for his moveset. We've had people fight with darkness and fight with swords, but never a fighter who can manipulate the very essence of Darkness in his favour, considering that is what Dark Matter is, complete and utter darkness.

That much is possible, given, but the fact remains that Dark Matter was a final boss in one Kirby game, Dream Land 2. Dark Matter appears again in Dream Land 3 and Kirby 64, but not the Dark Matter you and I are referring to. Doesn't that make it a one-off? Sure, we can count the cameo in the Kirby Quest minigame, but that doesn't change the fact that in canon, said individual Dark Matter has existed in only one game. I mean, if we're talking about Dark Matter as a leader, Zero would have to be the one to represent that, yet I think you and I can agree that Zero doesn't have the qualities to be a character on the same scale as Kirby or King Dedede. If we're talking about Dark Matter as a species, doesn't that make it no more credible than the Waddle Dees?

At the very least, Bandanna Dee has notoriety in being a playable character recently and a much more familiar face in general. Bandanna Dee is more requested and much more recognizable either way. Check the polls. Check the threads. Check the frequency of appearances. Dark Matter is, dare I say it, obscure as a Kirby character when you look at the series as a whole. Prove to me otherwise that "Samurai Dark Matter" is better representation than Bandanna Dee. Here's some starting ground:

Dark Matter
Kirby's Dream Land 2 - Final Boss (Samurai)
Kirby's Dream Land 3 - Main antagonists (Species, Zero)
Kirby 64 - Main antagonists (Species, Zero Two)
(Arguably) Kirby: Squeak Squad - Final Boss ("Dark Nebula" is known as "Dark Zero" in Japan)
Kirby Mass Attack - Cameo (Samurai, Dreamland 3 semi-Final Boss form)

Waddle Dee
Kirby's Dream Land - Enemy (Species)
Kirby's Adventure - Enemy (Species)
Kirby's Dream Land 2 - Enemy (Species)
Kirby Super Star - Enemy (Species, Bandanna), Playable (Helper), Mini-Boss (Bandanna)
Kirby's Dream Land 3 - Enemy (Species)
Kirby 64 - Major protagonist (Playable)
Kirby & The Amazing Mirror - Enemy (Species)
Kirby: Canvas Curse - Enemy (Species), Playable
Kirby: Squeak Squad - Enemy (Species)
Kirby's Epic Yarn - Enemy (Species)
Kirby Mass Attack - Enemy (Species), Cameo (Bandanna)
Kirby's Return to Dream Land - Enemy (Species), Playable (Bandanna)

Even excluding an assortment of other Kirby games, Waddle Dee as a species still beats out Dark Matter as a species with more than twice as many games. Bandanna Dee himself has more appearances and is playable at one point compared to Samurai Dark Matter's one boss fight. Either way you go about it, Waddle Dee has a more impressive resume. If Kirby is to get another representative, which I doubt it would in the first place, Waddle Dee seems like he would be that representative.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Hiroshi Yamauchi, president of Nintendo from 1949 to 2002, has passed away at the age of 85. Rest in peace, Hiroshi Yamauchi, without you, none of the discussions on this site would be ever possible.

I think a fitting tribute to the man would be dedicate the next Smash Brothers to him. He made this game possible.

Surely I'm thinking of a character based on the first thing made by Nintendo, it kinda feels appropriate now.

 

[SchAlternate]

Oooh. Sonic Adventure stage with Perfect Chaos hazard. I can't handle waiting for a Sonic confirmation.

If there is a SA stage, I'd like to see Emerald Coast. Y'know, since it's the first level and stuff.

 

[Chandeelure]

It's me or the screenshots of this week are totally terrible?
Maybe the screenshot of tomorrow will be interesting.

 

[?????????????]

On the Kirby topic...I've been mainly talking in theoreticals; I don't think Kirby will likely get a fourth rep nor do I personally desire one. Out of curiosity, does anyone think Kirby really needs more characters?

 

[Hotfeet444]

That much is possible, given, but the fact remains that Dark Matter was a final boss in one Kirby game, Dream Land 2. Dark Matter appears again in Dream Land 3 and Kirby 64, but not the Dark Matter you and I are referring to. Doesn't that make it a one-off? Sure, we can count the cameo in the Kirby Quest minigame, but that doesn't change the fact that in canon, said individual Dark Matter has existed in only one game. I mean, if we're talking about Dark Matter as a leader, Zero would have to be the one to represent that, yet I think you and I can agree that Zero doesn't have the qualities to be a character on the same scale as Kirby or King Dedede. If we're talking about Dark Matter as a species, doesn't that make it no more credible than the Waddle Dees?

At the very least, Bandanna Dee has notoriety in being a playable character recently and a much more familiar face in general. Bandanna Dee is more requested and much more recognizable either way. Check the polls. Check the threads. Check the frequency of appearances. Dark Matter is, dare I say it, obscure as a Kirby character when you look at the series as a whole. Prove to me otherwise that "Samurai Dark Matter" is better representation than Bandanna Dee. Here's some starting ground:

Dark Matter
Kirby's Dream Land 2 - Final Boss (Samurai)
Kirby's Dream Land 3 - Main antagonists (Species, Zero)
Kirby 64 - Main antagonists (Species, Zero Two)
(Arguably) Kirby: Squeak Squad - Final Boss ("Dark Nebula" is known as "Dark Zero" in Japan)
Kirby Mass Attack - Cameo (Samurai, Dreamland 3 semi-Final Boss form)

Waddle Dee
Kirby's Dream Land - Enemy (Species)
Kirby's Adventure - Enemy (Species)
Kirby's Dream Land 2 - Enemy (Species)
Kirby Super Star - Enemy (Species, Bandanna), Playable (Helper), Mini-Boss (Bandanna)
Kirby's Dream Land 3 - Enemy (Species)
Kirby 64 - Major protagonist (Playable)
Kirby & The Amazing Mirror - Enemy (Species)
Kirby: Canvas Curse - Enemy (Species), Playable
Kirby: Squeak Squad - Enemy (Species)
Kirby's Epic Yarn - Enemy (Species)
Kirby Mass Attack - Enemy (Species), Cameo (Bandanna)
Kirby's Return to Dream Land - Enemy (Species), Playable (Bandanna)

Even excluding an assortment of other Kirby games, Waddle Dee as a species still beats out Dark Matter as a species with more than twice as many games. Bandanna Dee himself has more appearances and is playable at one point compared to Samurai Dark Matter's one boss fight. Either way you go about it, Waddle Dee has a more impressive resume. If Kirby is to get another representative, which I doubt it would in the first place, Waddle Dee seems like he would be that representative.

Well, first off, Dark Matter is not a species persay, it is a single entity that is split apart and controlled by use of a hive mind by the power of Zero, the core of the Dark Matter's power. So basically everything revolving around Dark Matter, Zero and everything is actually that of a single enigma, so labeling it off as a species and comparing it to the goomba of the franchise in that case doesn't make sense.

Samurai Dark Matter, Semi-Boss Dark Matter, Dark Nebula, Zero, they're all one and the same as they're all a part of Zero. So in short, there's no way that Dark Matter itself can be considered "obscure as a Kirby character when you look at the series as a whole" considering they're all the same entity and considering one appearance by this entity has to take the others into consideration.

So in short, this entity has made MUCH more of a name for itself than that of Bandana Dee in the franchise, and I say Bandana Dee because that's clearly the choice for a playable character and not your average Waddle Dee.

On the Kirby topic...I've been mainly talking in theoreticals; I don't think Kirby will likely get a fourth rep nor do I personally desire one. Out of curiosity, does anyone think Kirby really needs more characters?

Does it need anymore characters? No, not at all. However, the series has alot of likeable characters, so it's fun to discuss the possibilities.

 

[SchAlternate]

Still, do we really need another Kirby character?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Still, do we really need another Kirby character?

No, not really.

 

[jaytalks]

Surely I'm thinking of a character based on the first thing made by Nintendo, it kinda feels appropriate now.

I think it's fine. He probably would want it that way.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

It warms my heart that my most favorite and most played franchise is being talked about. (sorry FE your second )

Spoiler

that makes kirby happy :D

Kirby will probably stay at 3 reps since sakurai doesn't want to over rep his franchise, but if we were to get a fourth, it would without a doubt be spear bandanna waddle dee.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Still, do we really need another Kirby character?

Is that a Prequel avatar I see?

 

[?????????????]

Not that I dislike theoretical discussions. Heck, I made a Top 5 characters for every franchise. Toughest one was Yoshi...there's really not enough for a good Top 5.

 

[---]

Still, do we really need another Kirby character?

Not really IMO.

Mega Charizard is going to be mega overrated just like its normal form, just watch. Also....

The sad part is the overratedness of Mega Charizard will overshadow how freaking AWESOME Mega Blastoise is. Now, I'm not a Squirtle user, never cared for the line, but THIS...THIS makes me want to use a Squirtle. LOOK AT THAT CANNON! And those two arm cannons! Somewhere right now, Genesect is crying in a corner from jealousy over the majesty of that freaking rail gun cannon on Mega Blastoise's back.

Bah, that cannon's just an overgrown squirt gun compared to the awesomeness of my bud Mega Venusaur.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Well, first off, Dark Matter is not a species persay, it is a single entity that is split apart and controlled by use of a hive mind by the power of Zero, the core of the Dark Matter's power. So basically everything revolving around Dark Matter, Zero and everything is actually that of a single enigma, so labeling it off as a species and comparing it to the goomba of the franchise in that case doesn't make sense.

Samurai Dark Matter, Semi-Boss Dark Matter, Dark Nebula, Zero, they're all one and the same as they're all a part of Zero. So in short, there's no way that Dark Matter itself can be considered "obscure as a Kirby character when you look at the series as a whole" considering they're all the same entity and considering one appearance by this entity has to take the others into consideration.

So in short, this entity has made MUCH more of a name for itself than that of Bandana Dee in the franchise, and I say Bandana Dee because that's clearly the choice for a playable character and not your average Waddle Dee.

Does it need anymore characters? No, not at all. However, the series has alot of likeable characters, so it's fun to discuss the possibilities.

...And how do you explain Zero, then? Are they his collective consciousness? If so, why aren't you arguing for a playable Zero? What about Gooey? Does that sentient Dark Matter not count or something? Sure, you can say Dark Matter is a hivemind in itself, but that does nothing for allocating having Dark Matter be a playable character in Smash.

And yes, they still can be considered obscure when scaled to the rest of the series. The same issues that run into King K. Rool can apply directly to Dark Matter in that Dark Matter hasn't had a non-cameo appearance since the year 2000. The difference is that Dark Matter isn't vastly popular like King K. Rool, meaning why would they add Dark Matter, a relatively short-lived being, over Waddle Dee, a recurrent and bright-futured character?

Again, Dark Matter has made a name for itself in three games over a decade ago, in a series with around 20 games. You're telling me that being the antagonist of a few games makes you more important than a recurrent character with lesser yet sometimes playable roles? That's the same logic people use to say Fawful is more deserving than Toad. You may as well be saying Dark Samus should get in over Ridley, considering Ridley isn't the bigger antagonist on average.

I'm merely saying that if we get another Kirby character, Bandanna Dee has more relevance to Kirby this decade and has more fan support, therefore would make more sense. I don't know why that's so hard to accept.

 

[FlareHabanero]

We don't really need a character from the Kirby series, but at the same time it wouldn't hurt either. It's just a matter if it's worth the time and effort to include something, basically a justification to include the character based on their own merits and their influences on the franchise they originate from. You cannot simply add anything, you have to pick your choices carefully.

 

[Espio264]

Not really IMO.



Bah, that cannon's just an overgrown squirt gun compared to the awesomeness of my bud Mega Venusaur.

They could' ve gone a different direction with Mega Venusaur, but they chose to make him more flowery.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Maybe MegaVenasaur should've had mutant thorns on its back.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

M

How about which characters would definitely he clones.

Medusa
Ninten
Dixie Kong
Leif
Donkey Kong Jr
Dry Bowser
Galacta Knight
Starpy

 

[AEMehr]

There is no single important Waddle Dee, and if we're talking about Bandana Dee, all he's done is sit in the background during the Masked Dedede battle and be a playable character in one game, which is NOWHERE near as important as Dark Matter. It's like saying a Goomba is important enough to be playable because you had a partner Goomba with you in both the first Paper Mario titles.

"Bandana Dee's" official name is Waddle Dee, much like how Toad is a Toad named Toad. Therefor, I have referred to him as such.
Now Waddle Dee hasn't just sat in the background and been a fourth playable character.
Waddle Dee has been in the Kirby franchise since SuperStar. He's just recently gotten some steam and popularity.
He was the first competitor in Megaton Punch (Player 2 in Multiplayer).
He's King Dedede's assistant, which was made apparent in Super Star Ultra and Return to Dreamland.
He fights Kirby in order to protect Dedede, against Dedede's order to escape.
He cheered the King on against Kirby.
He cheered on Meta Knight in the final battle of Kirby Starship EVO.
He appeared as a main playable character in Return to Dreamland.
But lets not forget that he's part of a species of characters that have been in every single Kirby game. I'm sure we can safely assume that they will continue to make appearance in each game. His positioning is very similar to Toad, but Toad still is referenced to be THE Toad in Peach's moveset. The Waddle Dees, Waddle Doos, and Gordos in Dedede's side special are not THE Waddle Dee.

Doesn't make me wrong either.

You don't know if you're right or not, so let's just go with what we know. What we know is that Dark Nebula is the only recent Kirby enemy that is part of Dark Matter.
Dark Mind and Magolor are still up in the air.

Kirby's Dreamland 1, 2, 3, Kirby 64, Kirby Super Star, Kirby's Adventure, Kirby and the Amazing Mirror, Kirby Squeak Squad, Kirby Mass Attack, Kirby's Epic Yarn, Kirby's Return to Dreamland. That's eleven.

You still didn't clicked the link.
You're forgetting Canvas Curse and Dream Collection (it wasn't just a rehash of old Kirby games, after all).

An appearance is an appearance, and his appearance as the final challenge fits quite well.

It doesn't add to your overarching villain claim. So don't act like it does.

When you say that, it doesn't make sense. If you're talking about Bandana Dee, he's not overly important enough to the franchise to warrant a spot. If you're talking about your average Waddle Dee, they're just generic enemies. In the end, I fail to see how Waddle Dee warrants more.

Waddle Dee is Kirby's equivalent to Toad. (just without the overwhelming seniority)
When we have confirmation that Dark Matter has an overwhelming presence in Kirby games, I will go ahead and agree with you that it would be the next best Kirby character.
But there is no confirmation of that, so I'm still going to say that Dark Matter would be amazing Boss material and that Waddle Dee would be the best new Kirby rep.

On the Kirby topic...I've been mainly talking in theoreticals; I don't think Kirby will likely get a fourth rep nor do I personally desire one. Out of curiosity, does anyone think Kirby really needs more characters?

Oh, Kirby doesn't need a new character at all.
I just think that Frederick would make much more sense than Jeremiah.

 

[Hotfeet444]

M
Medusa
Ninten
Dixie Kong
Leif
Donkey Kong Jr
Dry Bowser
Galacta Knight
Starpy

I already designed a moveset to prove that wrong

...And how do you explain Zero, then? Are they his collective consciousness? If so, why aren't you arguing for a playable Zero? What about Gooey? Does that sentient Dark Matter not count or something? Sure, you can say Dark Matter is a hivemind in itself, but that does nothing for allocating having Dark Matter be a playable character in Smash.

And yes, they still can be considered obscure when scaled to the rest of the series. The same issues that run into King K. Rool can apply directly to Dark Matter in that Dark Matter hasn't had a non-cameo appearance since the year 2000. The difference is that Dark Matter isn't vastly popular like King K. Rool, meaning why would they add Dark Matter, a relatively short-lived being, over Waddle Dee, a recurrent and bright-futured character?

Again, Dark Matter has made a name for itself in three games over a decade ago, in a series with around 20 games. You're telling me that being the antagonist of a few games makes you more important than a recurrent character with lesser yet sometimes playable roles? That's the same logic people use to say Fawful is more deserving than Toad. You may as well be saying Dark Samus should get in over Ridley, considering Ridley isn't the bigger antagonist on average.

I'm merely saying that if we get another Kirby character, Bandanna Dee has more relevance to Kirby this decade and has more fan support, therefore would make more sense. I don't know why that's so hard to accept.

Wow now, not a non-cameo appearance since 2000? Dark Matter was a boss in Kirby Mass Attack in 2009, and even if it was a minigame of sorts, that's not a cameo, that's an actual boss, the final boss at that. And I don't need to argue for Zero due to they're all a part of him, asking for Samurai Dark Matter is fine as at the core it's still Zero although not directly.

And to be honest, in the kirby series, where they cycle through big main bosses faster than a pair of shoes, yes, being a boss of multiple games DOES mean something, especially considering it's not something Kirby games have. There's Marx, Nightmare, Daroach, Magolor, and so many more that are just one time shots while Dark Matter is one that kept coming back. Not to mention Dark Matter is the most recurring final boss if you don't count sequels. This isn't Mario, Metroid or Zelda, who continue to have the same major villain come back over and over again, and no, Dedede is not a real major villain.

And okay, I accept your views on Bandanna Dee getting in, but all I'm saying is Dark Matter shouldn't just be a character cast aside.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Starpy

Starfy, who would he be a clone of???

 

[?????????????]

M
Medusa
Ninten
Dixie Kong
Leif
Donkey Kong Jr
Dry Bowser
Galacta Knight
Starpy

I don't know how Medusa would be a clone. I mean, unless you mean a clone of Palutena who...isn't a character as far as we know. What if Medusa came first? Wouldn't that make Palutena the clone? I mean...that's what I'm assuming you mean anyway, since you got Starpy who would be a clone of Stafy.