Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[TheLastJinjo]

Regardless of Bandanna Dee, We need to look elsewhere for franchises to give new characters.

 

[Louie G.]

Dark Matter was a swordsman who use energy blades, distortion forms, dark beams, and more. He has a ton to work with, but even if Waddle Dee is more reoccurring, it's just a basic enemy. It's like the people that advocated for Knuckle Joe, it's a horrible choice as it's nothing more than a basic enemy. And of course Dark Matter wouldn't be playable. You think that the biggest threat to Pop Star and the influence of many of the series' villains, including Dedede on a couple of occasions.

As much as I would love Dark Matter, Waddle Dee just screams "4th Kirby rep" to me.
Dark Matter has as much a chance as Marx.
If Sakurai keeps bringing Waddle Dee back in Kirby games, chances are he'll become playable in Smash if Kirby needs 4 reps at some point or another (AKA, next Smash. Doesn't need one this time).

Spoiler

PS: I would love to see Marx.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Regardless of Bandanna Dee, We need to look elsewhere for franchises to give new characters.

Still a more interesting choice then Chrom or Toad, at least in my opinion.

Still doesn't beat Ridley though.

 

[Louie G.]

Regardless of Bandanna Dee, We need to look elsewhere for franchises to give new characters.

We never talk about Kirby!
We have to keep this going!

 

[Hotfeet444]

As much as I would love Dark Matter, Waddle Dee just screams "4th Kirby rep" to me.
Dark Matter has as much a chance as Marx.
If Sakurai keeps bringing Waddle Dee back in Kirby games, chances are he'll become playable in Smash if Kirby needs 4 reps at some point or another (AKA, next Smash. Doesn't need one this time).

Spoiler

PS: I would love to see Marx.

But Sakurai isn't bringing Waddle Dee back because Sakurai hasn't made a Kirby game since 2008 with Kirby Super Star Ultra, so it's not even his decision to continue using Bandana Dee. I don't even know if Sakurai was asked to voice Dedede.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

This is my start-off roster (should point that out because for some reasons it's NOT obvious )

We never talk about Kirby!
We have to keep this going!

Damn............he's right...

 

[BluePikmin11]

Nothing's wrong with him, but wouldn't you rather they make him a unique character, rather than a half @$$ed inclusion for the sake of four Kirby characters?

Yeah really I want a unique character.

 

[?????????????]

New Kirby rep? A few weeks ago, I actually mapped out ideas for "what if each already existing series got 5 new reps?" It was an idea for a series of videos where I do my Top 5 characters for certain series, but I'm too busy to actually edit it, so I never recorded it.

In any case, after a LOT of debating with myself and balancing out qualities...I ultimately chose Bandana Dee as a 4th Kirby rep (#1 on my "new Kirby reps" list).

 

[Louie G.]

But Sakurai isn't bringing Waddle Dee back because Sakurai hasn't made a Kirby game since 2008 with Kirby Super Star Ultra, so it's not even his decision to continue using Bandana Dee.

Got me there. Kinda wanted to see if you would catch that.
Waddle Dee has an obvious moveset though, is an important character, and wouldn't be very expensive to make (I don't think). I just think he's the best choice, but I'd be fine with anyone.
As long as my beloved Kirby gets the big 3, I'm a-okay.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

But Sakurai isn't bringing Waddle Dee back because Sakurai hasn't made a Kirby game since 2008 with Kirby Super Star Ultra, so it's not even his decision to continue using Bandana Dee. I don't even know if Sakurai was asked to voice Dedede.

Capcom hasn't made a Mega Man game since 2011. Yet Sakurai added him anyway.

Whether he runs the series in question or not, Waddle Dee is becoming more recurrent. If he wants to add Waddle Dee, he has the power to. His relation to the Kirby series has nothing to do with it.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Got me there. Kinda wanted to see if you would catch that.
Waddle Dee has an obvious moveset though, is an important character, and wouldn't be very expensive to make (I don't think). I just think he's the best choice, but I'd be fine with anyone.
As long as my beloved Kirby gets the big 3, I'm a-okay.

I don't know about Waddle Dee, or should I say Bandana Dee since that's who we're talking about, being super important. He was a background character in Super Star Ultra and a playable character in Return to Dreamland. The actual waddle dees, who've been in pretty much every Kirby game ever, pretty much did nothing but walk into you. In short, the importance of THIS specific Waddle Dee is blown a little out of proportion.

Capcom hasn't made a Mega Man game since 2011. Yet Sakurai added him anyway.

Whether he runs the series in question or not, Waddle Dee is becoming more recurrent. If he wants to add Waddle Dee, he has the power to. His relation to the Kirby series has nothing to do with it.

That's not really a fair comparison. Capcom not making a MegaMan since 2011 was having that be the last game made, while although Super Star Ultra was Sakurai's last Kirby game, it wasn't the last game as they went on to make more Kirby games after it, namely Kirby Mass Attack, Kirby's Epic Yarn and Kirby's Return to Dreamland. And of course he has the power to, but a character like Waddle Dee, compared to the main protagonist, the anti-hero, and the main antagonist seems really underwhelming.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

The obvious fourth rep is Dark Matter, not Waddle Dee. Overarching villain of the franchise >>> Generic Goomba Enemy

Dark Matter has only been in 3 Kirby games. that's hardly and "Overarching Villain." Outside of possibly Dedede, Kirby doesn't have an "overarching villain."

Time will tell if Bandana Dee is a worthy addition. While I do support him and would be very happy if he got in, he only has one major appearance and a few minor appearances going for him. Though if Kirby is going to get a 4th playable character it should be him.

 

[masterluigi1]

Chances are if Sakurai didn't see Toad as important enough(too generic) to warrant his own spot on the roster then I highly doubt waddle/bandana dee will be included.
he will stay as one of Dedede's attacks.

 

[Chandeelure]

Dark Matter was a swordsman who use energy blades, distortion forms, dark beams, and more. He has a ton to work with, but even if Waddle Dee is more reoccurring, it's just a basic enemy. It's like the people that advocated for Knuckle Joe, it's a horrible choice as it's nothing more than a basic enemy. And of course Dark Matter wouldn't be playable. You think that the biggest threat to Pop Star and the influence of many of the series' villains, including Dedede on a couple of occasions, would ever be playable?

And what about pokemon characters? they are thousands of them,they are not unique.
Link and Toon Link? Mario and Dr. Mario?
Bandana Dee is unique,not just another Waddle Dee.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Dark Matter has only been in 3 Kirby games. that's hardly and "Overarching Villain." Outside of possibly Dedede, Kirby doesn't have an "overarching villain."

Time will tell if Bandana Dee is a worthy addition. While I do support him and would be very happy if he got in, he only has one major appearance and a few minor appearances going for him. Though if Kirby is going to get a 4th playable character it should be him.

Dark Matter itself influenced, or even are a part of, a majority of the game's villains as well, including the main villains of Squeak Squad, Amazing Mirror, and even Return to Dreamland (Yes, that final form of Magolor looks like Zero for a reason)

And what about pokemon characters? they are thousands of them,they are not unique.
Link and Toon Link? Mario and Dr. Mario?
Bandana Dee is unique,not just another Waddle Dee.

Yeah, it's uniqueness is the Bandana on its head, it's not even the first Waddle Dee to use a Spear.

Also, why are you comparing Mario to Dr. Mario? They're the same person.

 

[Morbi]

And what about pokemon characters? they are thousands of them,they are not unique.
Link and Toon Link? Mario and Dr. Mario?
Bandana Dee is unique,not just another Waddle Dee.

649. Just saying! Although there are a ton of unique Pokemon. Usually they get the movie slots.

 

[masterluigi1]

And what about pokemon characters? they are thousands of them,they are not unique.
Link and Toon Link? Mario and Dr. Mario?
Bandana Dee is unique,not just another Waddle Dee.

He's really not unique. I don't think he's had any real important roles in a kirby game(correct me if im wrong)and I doubt hes had more than Toad whos just been basically deconfirmed(dnt be in denial people).

 

[AEMehr]

The obvious fourth rep is Dark Matter, not Waddle Dee. Overarching villain of the franchise >>> Generic Goomba Enemy

Overarching? Dark Matter has only been in five games out of twenty two.

Not sure how that's "overarching".

Zero or Miracle Matter can be the boss, but the actual Dark Matter of Kirby's Dreamland 2 & 3 and Kirby Mass Attack is a perfect playable character.

While he'd make a nice playable character, I question it's importance to the franchise overall. I'd certainly say Dark Matter is in the top two for the spot though, it's just that adding Waddle Dee means a lot more for the franchise than a villain who's appeared in less than 25% of the main adventure titles (Not to mention that the Dark Matter species has never had any mention in Smash outside of Gooey's trophy and the 02 Battle theme).

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Dark Matter itself influenced, or even are a part of, a majority of the game's villains as well, including the main villains of Squeak Squad, Amazing Mirror, and even Return to Dreamland (Yes, that final form of Magolor looks like Zero for a reason)

That may be true, but that still doesn't make Dark Matter an "overaching villain."

And Magolor is more of an expy of Marx than anyone else.

 

[Louie G.]

I don't know about Waddle Dee, or should I say Bandana Dee since that's who we're talking about, being super important. He was a background character in Super Star Ultra and a playable character in Return to Dreamland. The actual waddle dees, who've been in pretty much every Kirby game ever, pretty much did nothing but walk into you. In short, the importance of THIS specific Waddle Dee is blown a little out of proportion.



That's not really a fair comparison. Capcom not making a MegaMan since 2011 was having that be the last game made, while although Super Star Ultra was Sakurai's last Kirby game, it wasn't the last game as they went on to make more Kirby games after it, namely Kirby Mass Attack, Kirby's Epic Yarn and Kirby's Return to Dreamland. And of course he has the power to, but a character like Waddle Dee, compared to the main protagonist, the anti-hero, and the main antagonist seems really underwhelming.

Check out the moveset for Spear Kirby. Same as Waddle Dee.
http://kirby.wikia.com/wiki/Spear

 

[Robert of Normandy]

That's not really a fair comparison. Capcom not making a MegaMan since 2011 was having that be the last game made, while although Super Star Ultra was Sakurai's last Kirby game, it wasn't the last game as they went on to make more Kirby games after it, namely Kirby Mass Attack, Kirby's Epic Yarn and Kirby's Return to Dreamland.

Sakurai stopped working on Kirby games in 2003. The last one he worked on was Nightmare in Dreamland IIRC.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Overarching? Dark Matter has only been in five games out of twenty two.

Not sure how that's "overarching".
While he'd make a nice playable character, I question it's importance to the franchise overall. I'd certainly say Dark Matter is in the top two for the spot though, it's just that adding Waddle Dee means a lot more for the franchise than a villain who's appeared in less than 25% of the main adventure titles (Not to mention that the Dark Matter species has never had any mention in Smash outside of Gooey's trophy and the 02 Battle theme).

Well, cutting out remakes and spin-offs, Dark Matter has had influence or supposed appearances in at least 8 different titles, and in counting, there's a total of 11 major Kirby titles, that sounds pretty overarching to me.

And of course I wouldn't be expecting much from Sakurai regarding Dark Matter discussion in Smash Bros, seeing how he didn't create the character.

That may be true, but that still doesn't make Dark Matter an "overaching villain."

And Magolor is more of an expy of Marx than anyone else.

His AMBITIONS are more like Marx, but the power he exerts in his soul makes it seem as if he's connected to the Dark Matter as well. I mean...he's a giant black gunky floating eyeball with Deadmau5 eyes.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Well, cutting out remakes and spin-offs, Dark Matter has had influence or supposed appearances in at least 8 different titles, and in counting, there's a total of 11 major Kirby titles, that sounds pretty overarching to me.

He has CONFIRMED influence in at most 4 games: Dream Land 2 & 3, Kirby 64, and Squeak squad(Dark Nebula is confirmed to be part of Dark Matter's species, whatever that means).

His AMBITIONS are more like Marx, but the power he exerts in his soul makes it seem as if he's connected to the Dark Matter as well. I mean...he's a giant black gunky floating eyeball with Deadmau5 eyes.

Okay. So he takes influence from both Marx(his motivations, his character, some of his powers) and Dark Matter(his final appearance).

 

[Louie G.]

To Hotfeet:
According to the Kirby Wiki, Dark Matter does not refer to an individual, but a number of shadowy clouds.
There is more than one Dark Matter.
There is more than one Waddle Dee.
They are both in the same category.

 

[Autumn ♫]

As much as I would love to see Dark Matter, I don't think we will be getting any new Kirby character for SSB4

 

[Hotfeet444]

He has CONFIRMED influence in at most 4 games: Dream Land 2 & 3, Kirby 64, and Squeak squad(Dark Nebula is confirmed to be part of Dark Matter's species, whatever that means).

Okay. So he takes influence from both Marx(his motivations, his character, some of his powers) and Dark Matter(his final appearance).

Wait a second, that's not right. I just remembered, from the 20th Anniversary collection, Magolor talks about the fact that he was brainwashed by the Master Crown's power, an influential power that possessed him, much like how Dedede was possessed multiple times by Dark Matter. He never meant to double-cross Kirby and his friends, it was the power of the Master Crown that made him do so. And Kirby, being the good guy Greg that he is, forgave Magolor and now the both of them are more competitive rivals. So in short, Magolor is almost nothing like Marx, and alot more like Dark Matter.

To Hotfeet:
According to the Kirby Wiki, Dark Matter does not refer to an individual, but a number of shadowy clouds.
There is more than one Dark Matter.
There is more than one Waddle Dee.
They are both in the same category.

That's not exactly right. It's not that they're one of many, but Dark Matter is more of a single entity that's fueled by Zero. These Dark Matter clouds/beings have what appears to be their own sense of thought, but in the end, they're the same creature at the core. From what I can tell, they almost have a hive mind. The way they work reminds me of the Soul Bees of Darkstalkers 3.

 

[?????????????]

I will henceforth call the Spear/Bandana Waddle Dee "Frederick," and the sword-wielding Dark Matter "Jeremiah."

Frederick and Jeremiah have more importance to their species than others of their species, so I think both are viable. Both are recurring characters of the series. Both have displayed enough power to not only be viable as SSB characters, but be unique as SSB characters.

What I think makes Jeremiah interesting is that he is the first real classic antagonist of the Kirby series. Yes, King Dedede was the first and recurring antagonist, but Dedede has never committed an act that is truly evil. Out of this plethora of random evil Kirby villains, Jeremiah is (arguably) the most recurring (though that isn't often), and he has recently appeared in Kirby Mass Attack.

What I think makes Frederick interesting is his recent role as a playable character in our last console Kirby game. I think this is significant because Frederick was chosen to fight alongside and be equal to the likes of Kirby, Meta Knight, and King Dedede. His story impact may not be as significant as Jeremiah's, but it helps Frederick that he has had such an important role as a playable character. However, this role could also be correlated to the roles of the blue toad and yellow toad from the newer Mario games.

I will henceforth call the blue toad "Gary," and the yellow toad "Harrison."

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Wait a second, that's not right. I just remembered, from the 20th Anniversary collection, Magolor talks about the fact that he was brainwashed by the Master Crown's power, an influential power that possessed him, much like how Dedede was possessed multiple times by Dark Matter. He never meant to double-cross Kirby and his friends, it was the power of the Master Crown that made him do so. And Kirby, being the good guy Greg that he is, forgave Magolor and now the both of them are more competitive rivals. So in short, Magolor is almost nothing like Marx, and alot more like Dark Matter.

That doesn't make any sense. Magolor didn't get the Master Crown until the end of the game, how the hell could the thing have been brainwashing him?

And even if that is true, that's still only with the benefit of hindsight. In RtDL, Magolor comes of very much like Marx(there's even an implication that he may have known Marx). For crying out loud, his final form in EX mode is called Magolor Soul, in reference to Marx Soul.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

how would sakurai react to this website......

 

[Robert of Normandy]

how would sakurai react to this website......

 

[?????????????]

how would sakurai react to this website......

I think he would be entertained. Actually, I think he'd appreciate that so many people like his work this much. I think he'd take it in good humor.



Also, I kinda like the idea of Prince Fluff as a potential Kirby rep.

 

[Hotfeet444]

I think he would be entertained. Actually, I think he'd appreciate that so many people like his work this much. I think he'd take it in good humor.



Also, I kinda like the idea of Prince Fluff as a potential Kirby rep.

I like that idea as well. I wish there was more done with his character and that he wasn't just a one-off character. If only he could have been his own franchise character, then maybe he'd have a chance, or as a representative of the yarn style that looks as if it's going to become a trend.

how would sakurai react to this website......

Considering he has to deal with Miiverse on a daily basis, I think he'd take it as a breath of fresh air.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Sakurai knows so much that we don't. He's probably laughing his ass off.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Sakurai stopped working on Kirby games in 2003. The last one he worked on was Nightmare in Dreamland IIRC.

Kirby Air Ride.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Sakurai knows so much that we don't. He's probably laughing his *** off.

I think if he wanted a laugh, he'd go to the Ridley thread.

 

[AEMehr]

Yeah, it's uniqueness is the Bandana on its head, it's not even the first Waddle Dee to use a Spear.

Waddle Dee is Dedede's right hand man and it would be unique in Smash Brothers. I have yet to see an existing Smash Brothers character utilize a spear.

Dark Matter itself influenced, or even are a part of, a majority of the game's villains as well, including the main villains of Squeak Squad, Amazing Mirror, and even Return to Dreamland (Yes, that final form of Magolor looks like Zero for a reason)

The designs? Sure. The actual enemies themselves? Not so much.

Well, cutting out remakes and spin-offs, Dark Matter has had influence or supposed appearances in at least 8 different titles, and in counting, there's a total of 11 major Kirby titles, that sounds pretty overarching to me.

Well first of all, there are thirteen.
These are the games that we know has the Dark Matter species taking on the main antagonistic role:

Kirby's Dreamland 2
Kirby's Dreamland 3
Kirby 64

Those are the only titles with Dark Matter actually being the main antagonist.

- Amazing Mirror's Dark Mind is not affiliated with Dark Matter. It is thought to be the mirror world's version of Nightmare and Dark Matter due to it's appearance, but that itself isn't confirmed. Regardless, it has no relation to Dark Matter.
- Squeak Squad features Dark Nebula as the final boss, who has been confirmed to be part of the Dark Matter species. However, Nebula had done nothing to "influence" anybody until the very end of the game. Nebula's means of containment was thought to contain ultimate power by the Squeak Squad and Cake by Kirby. So Nebula didn't do anything but take possession of Daroach when the opportunity showed up.
- Dark Matter appeared as the final boss of a minigame in Mass Attack, that should not add to your "overarching" villain claim.
- Magolor's connection to Dark Matter in Return to Dreamland is pure speculation, nothing has been confirmed as of yet. This evidence is unusable.

Even with Squeak Squad, your eight out of eleven has been shot down to four out of thirteen.

And of course I wouldn't be expecting much from Sakurai regarding Dark Matter discussion in Smash Bros, seeing how he didn't create the character.

Then why would you expect it to be the next playable Kirby character for Smash Bros then?

 

[Deleted member]

Bear in mind that in 3 and Crystal Shards, Zero was the main antagonist while the Dark Matter spawn did his bidding.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Sakurai knows so much that we don't. He's probably laughing his *** off.

He apparently loves to taunt us, as shown by this pic.

 

[Autumn ♫]

He apparently loves to taunt us, as shown by this pic.

I know, putting that Mushroom there.

 

[AEMehr]

Bear in mind that in 3 and Crystal Shards, Zerowas the main antagonist while the Dark Matter spawn did his bidding.

Well I was referring to the species, not the character. I would imagine that Hotfeet meant the same thing.