Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[?????????????]

Weird how you guys are ignoring Kid Icarus.

Realized that and just made an edit lol.

 

[Bajef8]

I don't think KI needs a 2nd rep. Pit is just fine.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Pit is fine by himself, but I think we are getting Palutena anyway because she is the Zelda of KI and I think Uprising will get him another rep.

 

[?????????????]

Pit is fine by himself, but I think we are getting Palutena anyway because she is the Zelda of KI and I think Uprising will get him another rep.

I think it's a possibility, but I don't think it's a shoe-in. I don't even think it's especially likely.

 

[Bajef8]

She is likely, but I don't see KI, a very small series, warranting 2. That's just me. And actually I'd rather see a 2nd F-Zero rep over Palutena.

 

[shrooby]

honestly, the only series that really felt incomplete to me on the brawl roster were DK and Ridley.

Ridley's so big that he's his own series.

 

[BluePikmin11]

But Palutena is a very popular KI character, for that popularity, she should be in.

 

[Bajef8]

But Palutena is a very popular KI character, for that popularity, she should be in.

She's popular, sure, but that's like saying Skull Kid should be in because he's popular. The thing is, KI is a very small franchise that was only recently revived from the dead. That shouldn't make Palutena a worthy character. F-Zero has more games and has been repped since day 1. Seriously, give me Samurai Goroh or Black Shadow before her.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

She is likely, but I don't see KI, a very small series, warranting 2. That's just me. And actually I'd rather see a 2nd F-Zero rep over Palutena.

Mother warranted 2 and If sakurai wants Ninten as a last minute semi-clone he might be okay with 3. We should base it off the necessary characters and not how many games in the series exist. Sakurai really loves Kid Icarus and it's advertised a lot.

 

[YoshiandToad]

She's popular, sure, but that's like saying Skull Kid should be in because he's popular. The thing is, KI is a very small franchise that was only recently revived from the dead. That shouldn't make Palutena a worthy character. F-Zero has more games and has been repped since day 1. Seriously, give me Samurai Goroh or Black Shadow before her.

I would actually be down with Goroh. Fox can't be the only Melee intro guy to get his rival.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Mother warranted 2 and If sakurai wants Ninten as a last minute semi-clone he might be okay with 3. We should base it off the necessary characters and not how many games in the series exist. Sakurai really loves Kid Icarus and it's advertised a lot.

I agree. I doubt Sakurai cares about how many games a frnachise has to determine the number of characters. But Palutena is definitely not a shoe-in. I think she has a right to be in, but I think the only thing in her way is Sakurai's modesty.

 

[FlareHabanero]

You dunce, I said Turtle, as in the fighting game archetype. A defensive character that uses long range attacks in order to wear down the opponent.

 

[?????????????]

But Palutena is a very popular KI character, for that popularity, she should be in.

I think there's more to consider than just popularity. I'm just thinking from an angle of series representation here:

The Kid Icarus series is pretty small; any other series with multiple reps (thus far) has been a consistently running series; even Star Fox, which doesn't have TOO many games, started on SNES and has continued to have at least consistent releases (if you count Star Fox 64 3D).

The exception here might be MOTHER, which is also small, yet it has Ness and Lucas. However, it makes sense for Lucas to join sense he is the main protagonist for MOTHER 3, in which Ness is not present. Originally, as people probably know, Lucas was meant to replace Ness in Melee, so I think the only reason Ness is still around (and the reason we have 2 MOTHER reps) is because Ness had become a tradition by Brawl's time. However, MOTHER 3 was still the newest game, so it also made sense to add Lucas (off-topic, this is also a reason I think Chrom is quite likely).

Although Kid Icarus has had a new game, the character's roles are generally unchanged. Pit is still the main character, and Palutena is still a supporter; to the extreme. I know Palutena is important, recurring, and popular, but in Uprising...she just seemed like more of an accessory to me. Not to say she wasn't necessary, but her role was just to guide Pit, help him fly, and make good dialogue. I would say this is a contrast to Peach or Zelda, who have adventured alongside Mario and Link whenever they have the opportunity to do so.

Because of this, I don't think Palutena is incredibly likely from the standpoint that Kid Icarus needs more representation, nor do I think that, as important as she is, she adds a lot as a character. If she DID become playable in SSB, it would be something we've never seen before in a character choice. And that's entirely possible.

 

[TumblrFamous]

I think there's more to consider than just popularity. I'm just thinking from an angle of series representation here:

The Kid Icarus series is pretty small; any other series with multiple reps (thus far) has been a consistently running series; even Star Fox, which doesn't have TOO many games, started on SNES and has continued to have at least consistent releases (if you count Star Fox 64 3D).

The exception here might be MOTHER, which is also small, yet it has Ness and Lucas. However, it makes sense for Lucas to join sense he is the main protagonist for MOTHER 3, in which Ness is not present. Originally, as people probably know, Lucas was meant to replace Ness in Melee, so I think the only reason Ness is still around (and the reason we have 2 MOTHER reps) is because Ness had become a tradition by Brawl's time. However, MOTHER 3 was still the newest game, so it also made sense to add Lucas (off-topic, this is also a reason I think Chrom is quite likely).

Although Kid Icarus has had a new game, the character's roles are generally unchanged. Pit is still the main character, and Palutena is still a supporter; to the extreme. I know Palutena is important, recurring, and popular, but in Uprising...she just seemed like more of an accessory to me. Not to say she wasn't necessary, but her role was just to guide Pit, help him fly, and make good dialogue. I would say this is a contrast to Peach or Zelda, who have adventured alongside Mario and Link whenever they have the opportunity to do so.

Because of this, I don't think Palutena is incredibly likely from the standpoint that Kid Icarus needs more representation, nor do I think that, as important as she is, she adds a lot as a character. If she DID become playable in SSB, it would be something we've never seen before in a character choice. And that's entirely possible.

I respect your opinion. But I think she definitely is more useful than Peach, but that's my opinion. But I don't want Magnus. From a KI standpoint, she has a lot more potential than him.

But yeah, a KI Rep isn't guaranteed.

EDIT: And I also respect your defenses. Better than the "she's a goddess, too OP" argument.

 

[Bajef8]

He also loves F-Zero, and the good Falcon especially. But we still only have Captain Falcon. It's really all up in the air, but I really don't think she's even necessary. Plus Lucas had been planned from the get-go but Ness kept making it in instead. It was only fair in Sakurai's mind to add Lucas finally. Plus he was a fairly important and recent character around Brawl time.

 

[?????????????]

I respect your opinion. But I think she definitely is more useful than Peach, but that's my opinion. But I don't want Magnus. From a KI standpoint, she has a lot more potential than him.

But yeah, a KI Rep isn't guaranteed.

She's potentially more useful (definitely more entertaining), but I really respect Peach's drive to help in battle when she can, like Super Mario RPG (where she openly defies "Toadsworth" to join Mario's party), Super Paper Mario, and even Super Princess Peach.

Actually...maybe that's a bad thing. She could put that effort into strengthening the kingdom's army instead of relying on two plumbers and a couple of brave mushroom people. Palutena's definitely got props as a leader.

Regardless, I find Palutena less interesting as a second KI Rep when other KI character exist that DO openly fight on the battlefield. Magnus is an example, but yeah, he wouldn't be as fleshed out moveset-wise as Palutena. I like Medusa and Hades.

 

[Starbound]

Hey, since we've already seen the entire Brawl cast of Mario characters so early, what do you guys think about the chances of a Mario newcomer?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I'm going to post a roster that lacks Ridley, K.Rool/Dixie, and Palutena, and I want people to make a judgment on it.

I will give a description with it when it is posted. It will be an experiment of sorts. There will newcomers that are not necessarily going to be in, but good placeholders of characters that COULD get in. I think it may be helpful as a wake up call, or a visual reminder that we may not get exactly what we want.

 

[?????????????]

Hey, since we've already seen the entire Brawl cast of Mario characters so early, what do you guys think about the chances of a Mario newcomer?

It's possible, but not overly necessary. I could totally see Bowser Jr. making the cut, but I personally am a bigger fan of Paper Mario.

 

[Curious Villager]

Actually...maybe that's a bad thing. She could put that effort into strengthening the kingdom's army instead of relying on two plumbers and a couple of brave mushroom people. Palutena's definitely got props as a leader.

Well to be fair, Palutena doesn't really rely too much on her Centurion army either. She mainly relies on Pit to get the job done.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I would gladly replace Palutena with Hades if it can't happen.

 

[?????????????]

Well to be fair, Palutena doesn't really rely too much on her Centurion army either. She mainly relies on Pit to get the job done.

True, true, but at least Pit is justifiable as an angel and a part of Palutena's forces. I'm not sure Mario and Luigi are even obligated to save the Mushroom Kingdom. Plus, we at least know that Palutena is working on the Centurion army, with the development of the juggenauts and stuff.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

K. Here it is.



Don't ask why Wonder Red is underneath Mario. I thought I fixed that before I uploaded it.

Only series with new characters here are:

Animal Crossing
The Wonderful 101
Punch-Out!!
Mega Man
Wii Fit
Fire Emblem
Pokemon
The Mysterious Murasame Castle
Xenoblade Chronicles

How would you feel about this roster?

EDIT: Don't look at this and think that it would have to end up like this. The newcomers could be different, but don't add Ridley, K.Rool, Dixie, or Palutena.

 

[Curious Villager]

True, true, but at least Pit is justifiable as an angel and a part of Palutena's forces. I'm not sure Mario and Luigi are even obligated to save the Mushroom Kingdom. Plus, we at least know that Palutena is working on the Centurion army, with the development of the juggenauts and stuff.

I suppose your right. Mario and Luigi have been Peach's friends since childhood if I remember correctly so they probably do it out of good friendship I guess.

 

[?????????????]

How would you feel about this roster?

EDIT: Don't look at this and think that it would have to end up like this. The newcomers could be different, but don't add Ridley, K.Rool, Dixie, or Palutena.

I would be perfectly content with this roster. Even without Ridley, K. Rool, Dixie, or Palutena, it adds a lot of good and interesting characters, like Shulk, Little Mac, and Takamaru, and other newcomers from already existing series that make sense at this time, like Mewtwo and Chrom.

As a side note, if Ridley does not make it in, this is exactly what I would prefer; no other Metroid character as a "substitute" for him.

The only character I personally don't really dig is Wonder Red. I don't think he's made a big enough impact. Looking at this roster...I would add another Mario character, simply because I don't think Pokemon should have more characters than Mario.

 

[---]

While I agree a KI newcomer is by no means a shoe in, don't forget that Pokemon got two reps in 64 (I don't remember what spin off games were out at the time, but the series was still small was really new), Star Fox got two reps in Melee despite only two games, Mother got 2 for 3 in Brawl. Inversely I probably don't need to make mention of the under-represented series either.

As for a KI newcomer itself, I'm guessing it'll come to how Sakurai feels towards the series having developed the last game as well as the criteria focusing on gameplay. KI has found a new audience, but I don't think at the current moment it's enough to warrant a character through popularity. A KI newcomer just doesn't feel like a must add IMO.


Like with Peach and Zelda, I do think it's rather odd to see someone elegant fighting, but don't forget that Palutena was a boss in Uprising and actively carries around weapons (staff/shield).

Other than that personally I can only see Dark Pit becoming playable as he's an important character, can fill the time restraint niche, and would be fairly easy to make a semi-clone. It just depends if Sakurai can get around the change in color palette.

I don't see Magnus offering anything that other sword characters already do (I'd argue even less than Chrom) and he does stick out as an obvious Assist Trophy. And just as a gut feeling, I don't see them scaling down Medusa or Hades either (yeah it's a size argument, feel free to call me out on it).

feelsweirdtoargueKIwhenyouhaveaPalutenaavi

 

[FlareHabanero]

Wonder Red is not in, so don't try to pretend he is. Even if I do like the idea...

 

[BluePikmin11]

K. Here it is.



Don't ask why Wonder Red is underneath Mario. I thought I fixed that before I uploaded it.

Only series with new characters here are:

Animal Crossing
The Wonderful 101
Punch-Out!!
Mega Man
Wii Fit
Fire Emblem
Pokemon
The Mysterious Murasame Castle
Xenoblade Chronicles

How would you feel about this roster?

EDIT: Don't look at this and think that it would have to end up like this. The newcomers could be different, but don't add Ridley, K.Rool, Dixie, or Palutena.

It could use Mii instead of Wonder Red for the bottom left corner. The roster feels limited of really unique characters.

Also heres mine without Dixie, Ridley, Palutena, and K. Rool:

It still looks like a fine roster, with enough unique newcomers.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Well to be fair, Palutena doesn't really rely too much on her Centurion army either. She mainly relies on Pit to get the job done.

Kind of like Zelda relies on Link? And Peach relies on Mario? And Fox's team relies on Fox? and Pokemon rely on their Trainers? And Mr. Game & Watch relies on the player? And R.O.B. relies on flashing lights? And C. Falcon relies on his care? And Ninten relies on his asthma inhaler?

K. Here it is.



Don't ask why Wonder Red is underneath Mario. I thought I fixed that before I uploaded it.

Only series with new characters here are:

Animal Crossing
The Wonderful 101
Punch-Out!!
Mega Man
Wii Fit
Fire Emblem
Pokemon
The Mysterious Murasame Castle
Xenoblade Chronicles

How would you feel about this roster?

EDIT: Don't look at this and think that it would have to end up like this. The newcomers could be different, but don't add Ridley, K.Rool, Dixie, or Palutena.

Wonder Red needs to go. Wonderful 101 JUST came out. It's not a big Nintendo franchise and I see no reason to add it besides recency, NOTHING else. It really doesn't make sense.

Besides Pokemon, Fire Emblem is the only series to get a new rep.

It could use Mii instead of Wonder Red for the bottom left corner. The roster feels limited of really unique characters.

Also heres mine without Dixie, Ridley, Palutena, and K. Rool:

It still looks like a fine roster, with enough unique newcomers.

Palutena > Medusa > Hades. If Palutena doesn't make the spot then nobody else will.

 

[BluePikmin11]

If not Hades, then another retro.
I'll gladly put Duck Hunt Dog instead of Hades.

 

[?????????????]

Palutena > Medusa > Hades. If Palutena doesn't make the spot then nobody else will.

I don't fully agree.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Hades would be fun to play as with a potential moveset. Maybe he could be a faster Ganondorf with unusual nerfs.

 

[masterluigi1]

I don't really see why Kid Icarus wouldn't get another rep.

KI is a new and popular Series. Whats wrong with fleshing out new series as opposed to the ones that are already well represented?

I also think Sakurai kinda sees it this way since in the intro of the ssb4 trailer KI was one of the Series that was shown.

edit: not to mention every newcomer we've seen so far have been for series that have not been represented in smash before.

 

[Deleted member]

We may as well be clamoring for Mew's addition as well if we're to rely on Brawl's known character priority, since Mew was supposed to be in the original Smash Bros.

What the Hell are you smoking? No Mew wasn't.

And if you dare quote the false statement of DYKG, I'm going to track you down and whack you upside the head with a 2X4.

You do realize that Spirit Tracks Link and Wind Waker Link are not the same person, right? Also, Toon Link not returning would be a heavy insult towards The Wind Waker HD.

Them being different "people" doesn't mean worth a damn as far as Smash is concerned.
Smash uses a universal "Link". Toon Link is just "Link as he appeared in Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass".

(And then again, it's been implied in the Zelda series that all the different "Links" are living embodiments of the spirit of Hylia's Chosen Hero (the "original" Link) that will appear whenever the world needs him. Reincarnations if you will. Technically different "people", but they are all incarnations of the same being.)

since we don't have a Turtle character on the roster yet

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I don't fully agree.

Medusa is the main villian of the series and would be easy to program as a Palutena semi-clone. Hades only appears in Uprising.

Unless you want to use that "He's the real lord of the underworld" crap. If you wanna go there than I guess Demise should replace Ganondorf. Also not to throw out spoilers. but Medusa kicked Hades's ass at the end, so she's still the main villain after that. You should add a character based on their importance and not just their role. Hades really doesn't deserve the spot at all.

 

[N3ON]

I think if we get a KI newcomer (which I still personally think we will), chances are heavily in Palutena's favour. She's overall the most popular KI character for Smash, and Uprising made it clear she's the secondary character of the series, with the series even being named after her in Japan. Really, it's much like Zelda. Which is also a nice parallel for people who claim isn't Palutena isn't much of a fighter, as Zelda wasn't either. At least Palutena has been shown capable of fighting, with a wide array of unique abilities.

Medusa, Hades, Magnus would all work, but none have the overall prominence and popularity of Palutena, especially in Uprising, which is where Sakurai will be basing the vast majority of KI content on, if not all. Plus Sakurai has previously shown in Smash when it comes to focusing on a KI character other than Pit, Palutena is the one he seems to go to. Heck, she was the only non-villain NPC in the SSE last time. Given Sakurai relegating Medusa to a more minor villain role and Hades still not coming close to Palutena's impact on the series (personally I think he'd be a better fit as a boss anyway), I'd be very surprised if anybody but her was included. Though I could see KI not getting a second rep at all.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Good afternoon all!

Well, Krystal's video is currently being uploaded and Meowth's video will be up not so long after, so it'll be a productive day after college.

Anyways, what's our current topic?

 

[AEMehr]

And if he was going to add a one-off Kirby character, Adeleine and Prince Fluff are way more interesting to me. Not remotely likely or anything, but I'd way rather see them.

"One-off"? Waddle Dee has been in several Kirby games, of course that isn't counting the fact that Waddle Dee would be representing the entire species. Which are present in every Kirby game.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Good afternoon all!

Well, Krystal's video is currently being uploaded and Meowth's video will be up not so long after, so it'll be a productive day after college.

Anyways, what's our current topic?

Palutena and how she doesn't really have to be in the roster.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Palutena and how she doesn't really have to be in the roster.

You could apply similar wording to many characters, actually. There is a difference between a need and a want, we can want this stuff but it ultimately won't be needed and can be ignored without stagnation to the overall quality of the game.