Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[kingmario92]

@SaturnGamer64 just about as much as his strength

 

[Autumn ♫]

@SaturnGamer/Noah
He's used a sword and magic abilities more than brute strength and his brute strength is usually represented by his sword and magic abilities

 

[Hotfeet444]

@ Hotfeet444, Monk4 & Arcadinir: I think you guys missed the "IN COMPARISON TO HIS STRENGTH" part. and for you complaining he doesn't use his magic, he already uses electricity, shadow, and explosion.

And Hotfeet, nice try using Skyward Sword as an excuse. That doesn't count. Shigeru Miyamoto is responsible for creating Mario. I guess that means he is well known for spitting Fire Balls.

What strength? The only real might he shows is his might with Magic and power through the use of his sword, he doesn't fight physically in the franchise other than punching a 12 year old boy in the face.

And also, where the hell did you get that hilarious comparison from? Shigeru Miyamoto is a real life person, Demise however is what Ganondorf is, Ganondorf is Demise incarnate, Mario is not Miyamoto incarnate.

And yes, he uses alot of magic...by ripping off Captain Falcon and giving almost no relation to his ablities in the real games. The Ganondorf we have now is not a Ganondorf related to Zelda, it's a Ganondorf related to Smash Bros, and it's just plain stupid. Even if they're fake toys, they try to make them work like the characters from their own franchises. They're changing Bowser to work more like he normally does, Ganondorf is most likely going to be the same. Hell, Ganondorf was even going to use a Sword in Ocarina of Time before it was cut out at the last moment, which is where the blunt sword he has in Melee comes from.

 

[kingmario92]

Besides Noah, why don't YOU name ALL the times he's used his brute strength. Not as much as magic.

 

[Arcanir]

He only used his brute strength once in the entire franchise, the rest of the time he used his magic and swordplay. His brute strength is hardly as integral to the character as you're making it out to be.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

He only used his brute strength once in the entire franchise, the rest of the time he used his magic and swordplay. His brute strength is hardly as integral to the character as you're making it out to be.

this

nintendo doesnt really have many diabolical villains that actually usually use their strength.

 

[Hotfeet444]

He only used his brute strength once in the entire franchise, the rest of the time he used his magic and swordplay. His brute strength is hardly as integral to the character as you're making it out to be.

Basically, all he's done in terms of brute force is punch some kids and rush kill an old guy...that's an impressive resume I must agree.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

With the help of Ariand/AEM's cool icon making abilities, I have made my 45 Character Roster! KEEP IN MIND THAT ZS SAMUS DOES NOT WASTE A SLOT, SHE IS SLOT #46!

Veterans: 31
Newcomers: 14
Semi-Clones: 6
Females (just fun to point out): 9

Keep in mind I don't see Ridley to be "ESSENTIAL" and that I think Toon Link is VERY important to the representation of Zelda.

ALT. Forms & DLC:

Spoiler

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Once in the entire franchise? What about Ocarina of Time, Wind Waker, and Twilight Princess!?

 

[LaniusShrike]

I do think the whole magically-empowered brute force thing works really well for Ganondorf-- but, canonically speaking, he very, very clearly favors swords and magic over shows of physical strength and any argument to the contrary is, well, confusing.

I do wish Nintendo stuck to him using tridents over swords... swords are just, eh, boring at this point. In the very least, the Sword of Sages that they tried to execute Ganondorf with could have been a gigantic executioner's axe. But... no. A pity.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Once in the entire franchise? What about Ocarina of Time, Wind Waker, and Twilight Princess!?

Ocarina of Time...nothing but looking at you funny through a window. Wind Waker...Punched some kids. Twilight Princess...Rush-killed an old guy. Once again, a very impressive resume.

 

[Silverjay323]

I think swordplay goes into the strength category does it not? Strength isn't just picking up cars and throwing them. I believe you all are taking the term out of context. Physical force would be a better term which he has used before, and is usually his primary form of attacking. He does use magic, but his style is not centered around it. In almost all of his final forms uses some sort of physical attack for damage.Not to mention he hold the triforce of power, which indicates strength in itself. Magic is Zelda's "main" weapon not Ganon's.

 

[Hotfeet444]

I think swordplay goes into the strength category does it not? Strength isn't just picking up cars and throwing them. I believe you all are taking the term out of context. Physical force would be a better term which he has used before, and is usually his primary form of attacking. He does use magic, but his style is not centered around it. In almost all of his final forms uses some sort of physical attack for damage.Not to mention he hold the triforce of power, which indicates strength in itself. Magic is Zelda's "main" weapon not Ganon's.

Please name at least one appearance where Ganondorf himself, not using any sort of magic to transform into a different form, has used any kind of physical force aside from punching some kids and rush-killing a sage. We know he uses physical attacks when transformed, but even then, Ganon in Ocarina of Time uses twin swords, and that's already a third of his big special forms and the only one that's the actual final part of the battle where Ganondorf uses all of his power to transform.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I think Ganondorf should have a giant long sword, just to show his superiority well.
Could be like the Scotsman from CN: PTE, but not really in a cartoonish manner.

 

[Shotguner159]

Once in the entire franchise? What about Ocarina of Time, Wind Waker, and Twilight Princess!?

In Ocarina, Ganondorf fights with magic, and is described as a magic user in this time period in Twilight Princess. In Wind Waker, he punches Link and slaps Zelda, but fights with swords for every other attack. In Twilight Princess, he punches an Ancient Sage to death, but otherwise uses magic and a sword to fight with.
Three times. Wow.

 

[Silverjay323]

TP Final Battle. SS Final Battle. WW Final battle. Very clearly in every "duel" so to speak, he uses it. How he actually fights. Magic usually comes in forms before that. It's become standard in his boss formula.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

We seem to be missing the point that his physical strength is vital to his character. It also is the best way to use magic attacks.

I think swordplay goes into the strength category does it not? Strength isn't just picking up cars and throwing them. I believe you all are taking the term out of context. Physical force would be a better term which he has used before, and is usually his primary form of attacking. He does use magic, but his style is not centered around it. In almost all of his final forms uses some sort of physical attack for damage.Not to mention he hold the triforce of power, which indicates strength in itself. Magic is Zelda's "main" weapon not Ganon's.

 

[Hotfeet444]

TP Final Battle. SS Final Battle. WW Final battle. Very clearly in every "duel" so to speak, he uses it. How he actually fights. Magic usually comes in forms before that. It's become standard in his boss formula.

TP Final Battle: Uses swords and magic
SS Final Battle: All Swordplay
WW Final Battle: Swordplay with fancy flips and leaps.

That's still the use of strength through swords, not his own hands. If anything, you're just supporting my synopsis of the idea of Ganondorf using a style of powerful magic/swordplay. Of course it's a form of physical force, but it's not the kind of force Noah is talking about.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Hotfeet you do realize that Ganondorf is not in Skyward Sword. Demise is not Ganondorf. Again, you are going around declaring what counts. If it's a final battle, what characters are related to Ganondorf, WHO Ganondorf beats up....

Regardless of this, read what SilverJay said.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Hotfeet you do realize that Ganondorf is not in Skyward Sword. Demise is not Ganondorf. Regardless of this, read what SilverJay said.

He said SS final battle, he was referring to Demise, so I explained the use of figthting in said fight against Demise. I believe it's you who didn't read what he said.

Edit: Did you really just edit that just to take a potshot?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

He said SS final battle, he was referring to Demise.

And?

 

[LaniusShrike]

I... feel like some people are forgetting what the actual discussion's about.

How often do you see him using his sword or magical projectiles compared to his brute strenght!? That sword is almost just for show, and we don't need 3 Swordsmen representing the Zelda series.

For the purpose of this past page, we've already defined "brute strength" as "not using his sword or magical projectiles". So... um... what's going on here?

 

[Hotfeet444]

And?

And so I said that his boss fight is all sword play, and it's talking about Demise when comparing it to fights against Ganondorf in Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, why's that so hard to interpret for you?

I... feel like some people are forgetting what the actual discussion's about.




For the purpose of this past page, we've already defined "brute strength" as "not using his sword or magical projectiles". So... um... what's going on here?

A large waste of time mostly.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

And so I said that his boss fight is all sword play, and it's talking about Demise when comparing it to fights against Ganondorf in Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, why's that so hard to interpret for you?

Because Demise is not Ganondorf, are you saying that if a squirrel murdered a little girl with Link's sword that Link would then be a murderer?

 

[Silverjay323]

What I was saying....Basically is that Ganondorf does use direct force more when fighting 1v1 or close and personal if you will. Even though some don't categorize swordplay as brute force, he still uses attacks (mainly kicks) while sword fighting. That being said, who's to say all of his attacks have to be directly derived from what he's actually done in game anyhow? They don't. Starfox is a perfect example of that.

 

[SuperBrawler]

Hey guys! Just got IOS 7. Anyway what's going on?

 

[Hotfeet444]

Because Demise is not Ganondorf, are you saying that if a squirrel murdered a little girl with Link's sword that Link would then be a murderer?

Why are you ******** about this to me and not SilverJay, who was the one who actually made the comparison of Demise's battle and Ganondorf's battles instead of replying to me with redundant comments?

Hey guys! Just got IOS 7. Anyway what's going on?

Currently? I'm somehow getting chewed out by Noah because I somehow compared Ganondorf to Demise in a comment that was already comparing Ganondorf to Demise and I was just relaying information back to him on said topic. In short, the last ten minutes have been a complete and utter waste of time and space. Dialga and Palkia are both crying out in their own dimensions as we speak.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Noah, I don't feel like quoting, but I love your roster. The only suggestion is not letting ZSS get her own slot, and give it to some form of a surprise character.

Realistically, though, its okay. I think it should be downsized a bit, and cut a few veterans. Not that many, but you know. Overall, though, very nice.

As for the Ganondorf discussion, I don't really want to give him a sword. A Trident would be nice. But I just want him more mobile, less sluggish, less susceptible to chain grabs, and overall have more range. Maybe some magical dark attacks.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Why are you *****ing about this to me and not SilverJay, who was the one who actually made the comparison of Demise's battle and Ganondorf's battles instead of replying to me with redundant comments?

You claimed that because he is responsible for Ganondorf's existence he counts as a Ganondorf boss fight. Thus he is Ganondorf.

 

[LaniusShrike]

The Legend of Zelda series is entirely about characters being reincarnated through the ages. Comparing Demise to Ganondorf is just as valid as comparing one Link to another Link.

 

[SuperBrawler]

Since I now know what's going on I'm leaving. Bye!

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Noah, I don't feel like quoting, but I love your roster. The only suggestion is not letting ZSS get her own slot, and give it to some form of a surprise character.

Realistically, though, its okay. I think it should be downsized a bit, and cut a few veterans. Not that many, but you know. Overall, though, very nice.

I thought 4 would be enough cuts. I was just going to have 3 but I needed the Mii. I just think ZS Samus works better as a separate character and that the transition between Samus and her ruins both characters. It also reminds people that we already have 2 Metroid reps. Thanks for the positive feedback.

 

[Hotfeet444]

You claimed that because he is responsible for Ganondorf's existence he counts as a Ganondorf boss fight. Thus he is Ganondorf.

Uh, no, don't put words in my mouth bucko. All I said in that comment was that Demise's boss battle is a swordplay battle, nothing more, nothing less. And yes, he is responsible for Ganondorf's existence, but that has NOTHING to do with anything I said in the comment replying to SilverJay. Please stay on topic with the current situation or don't reply, it's that simple.

 

[Arcanir]

What I was saying....Basically is that Ganondorf does use direct force more when fighting 1v1 or close and personal if you will. Even though some don't categorize swordplay as brute force, he still uses attacks (mainly kicks) while sword fighting. That being said, who's to say all of his attacks have to be directly derived from what he's actually done in game anyhow? They don't. Starfox is a perfect example of that.

You're missing what the argument was about, the point was whether Ganondorf primarily used his fists or his sword/magic, which after the back and forth, it's apparent that he relies on the latter more often. Brute force in this sense, was not just the general category, but just one aspect.

And yeah, not all of his attacks have to be, but it still would be nice if Smash took some influence from his game appearances instead of mostly drawing from Captain Falcon.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

I am confused. Why are we trying to say Ganondorf uses brute strength more than swordplay and magic? Like, legitimately, I am lost here. I have never seen Ganondorf do anything beyond punch children in WW in terms of strength. Everything else he's ever done has been with some form of magic (shadow, electricity, whatever) or a sword. How is that not the most straightforward of facts?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Uh, no, don't put words in my mouth bucko. All I said in that comment was that Demise's boss battle is a swordplay battle, nothing more, nothing less. And yes, he is responsible for Ganondorf's existence, but that has NOTHING to do with anything I said in the comment replying to SilverJay. Please stay on topic with the current situation or don't reply, it's that simple.

The subject was times that GANONDORF used physical strength. Not his creator, not Ganon, GanonDORF!, BUCKO!

 

[TumblrFamous]

I thought 4 would be enough cuts. I was just going to have 3 but I needed the Mii. I just think ZS Samus works better as a separate character and that the transition between Samus and her ruins both characters. It also reminds people that we already have 2 Metroid reps. Thanks for the positive feedback.

Oh, I didn't notice some of the cuts. Who do we have, Jiggz, Falco, Snake, and who else?

Also, I think we could give Samus and ZSS their slot together, but make it like Zelda and sheik, making them both selectable on the screen. But MAYBE decrease it by a bit. Other than that I'm fine with it.

 

[Autumn ♫]

You claimed that because he is responsible for Ganondorf's existence he counts as a Ganondorf boss fight. Thus he is Ganondorf.

Because he is Ganondorf, just in a different form.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Oh, I didn't notice some of the cuts. Who do we have, Jiggz, Falco, Snake, and who else?

Because he is Ganondorf, just in a different form.

There is no proof of that. I thought he just casted a curse that created Ganondorf. And just like we aren't talking about Ganon, we are talking about GANONDORF.

 

[Hotfeet444]

The subject was times that GANONDORF used physical strength. Not his creator, not Ganon, GanonDORF!, BUCKO!

Well then kid, go complain about the person who added in Demise to that comparison and not me, because basically you're dragging on a subject that should've been over a LONG time ago. Also, learning to read a full comment is a good idea, because when you skim, you miss alot of things.

Curse you SilverJay! CUURSE YOOOUUU!~

I am confused. Why are we trying to say Ganondorf uses brute strength more than swordplay and magic? Like, legitimately, I am lost here. I have never seen Ganondorf do anything beyond punch children in WW in terms of strength. Everything else he's ever done has been with some form of magic (shadow, electricity, whatever) or a sword. How is that not the most straightforward of facts?

Because this is Smashboards, topics that only require the most basic of knowledge get dragged through the mud for hours on end because people always have different views, no matter how warped they may be.