Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[Thirdkoopa]

Needs more surprises that contributes to the balance of the roster.

But Wii Fit Trainer is the most balanced character.

OHHHHHHH

 

[BluePikmin11]

Speaking of which, we do need support threads for Vince and Dr. Kawashima. Someone make them.

 

[FalKoopa]

Oh no now I'm doing one of these screw you guys. >: I have a feeling I'm gonna get flak for this. I bet I'm gonna miss something as well but here I go

Should for sure get a new rep
-DK
-Metroid
-Pokemon (Mewtwo)

Are more questionable, but can have a new rep
-Star Fox
-Mario
-Fire Emblem

Are down in the middle, but relatively harmless to having a rep
-Zelda
-Kid Icarus
-Animal Crossing
-F-Zero

Are probably not going to get a new rep, and probably don't need one anyways-Wario (Arguable)-Yoshi
-Mother
-Pikmin

100% don't need a new rep
-Kirby
-Any of the retro's that aren't Kid Icarus
-The Third-Parties
-Mother can arguably be put here
-Same with Yoshi, Pikmin, and just about everything else from the orange column

Overall, I agree with the list, though I'd personally move Kirby to Orange tier.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I don't blame you.

It's especially ignorant when he's not thinking about the uniqueness of Sheik to begin with.

It's not all that unique.

Also:

Needs two reps, like, as soon as possible
-Donkey Kong Country

Should for sure get a new rep
-Fire Emblem
-Pokemon (Mewtwo)
-Super Mario

Are more questionable, but can have a new rep
-The Legend of Zelda
-Kid Icarus
-F Zero

Are down in the middle, but relatively harmless to having a rep
-Kirby
-Wario Ware / Wario Land

Are probably not going to get a new rep, and probably don't need one anyways
-Mother
-Pikmin


100% don't need a new rep
-Any of the retro's that aren't Kid Icarus
-The Third-Parties

 

[NickerBocker]

If they get rid of Shiek and add Impa, I have a feeling she will inherit a lot of moves, which is not necessarily bad.

I just dont really see the point of making 1 character into 2, it would actually make Zelda have less reps, which would make me sad face

 

[CalumG]

Speaking of which, we do need support threads for Vince and Dr. Kawashima. Someone make them.

Dr. Kawashima is a real-life person. Please stop suggesting real-life things and start suggesting Nintendo characters kthx

 

[BluePikmin11]

Dr. Kawashima is a real-life person. Please stop suggesting real-life things and start suggesting Nintendo characters kthx

Wouldn't he mind? So you don't think he would be fun?

 

[FalKoopa]

It's not all that unique.

I suppose you want to ZSS with Anthony now.

And frankly, it was SHEIK who introduced that gimmick which Sakurai expanded upon in the case of Pokémon Trainer and Zero Suit Samus. Why aren't you advocating for their removal then?

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Overall, I agree with the list, though I'd personally move Kirby to Orange tier.

Kirby can have Daroach or Waddle Dee, I guess. I'd move it as well but it's really debatable. If Daroach makes more appearances and Sakurai notices him as a character, I think it could work in Smash 5

Okay, except with Pokemon Trainer you HAVE to switch, so I call bull**** there. With Zelda/Shiek, you don't.

Final Smash switch.

A totally different mechanic entirely. That'd be like me linking Lucario and saying it relates to G&W.

 

[CalumG]

Wouldn't he mind? So you don't think he would be fun?

It's not a case of whether he minds, it's a case of Nintendo not putting real-life characters into Smash Bros. They put Nintendo characters in (and the odd third-party), and Professor Ryuta Kawashima the Japanese neuroscientist from Chiba City in Japan does not fall into that category.

 

[NickerBocker]

all those characters use different forms I different ways. Ya they are similar, but different in that respect. Zelda/Shiek can change willingly, Samus forces you to switch, which may or may not gimp you. Ice climbers theres always 2 on the field, and pkmn trainer has 3 with stamina. Theyre used in different ways

 

[BluePikmin11]

It's not a case of whether he minds, it's a case of Nintendo not putting real-life characters into Smash Bros. They put Nintendo characters in (and the odd third-party), and Professor Ryuta Kawashima the Japanese neuroscientist from Chiba City in Japan does not fall into that category.

It's a floating of Andross head with floating Rayman hands, it's definitely not a real person.

 

[Diddy Kong]

If they get rid of Shiek and add Impa, I have a feeling she will inherit a lot of moves, which is not necessarily bad.

I just dont really see the point of making 1 character into 2, it would actually make Zelda have less reps, which would make me sad face

Seeing as how many characters have similar moves, despite not being clones, this isn't bad at all.

It's like... Replacing Jigglypuff with Kirby. But making sure Jigglypuff players like to play as Kirby to.

 

[CalumG]

It's a floating of Andross head with floating Rayman hands, it's definitely not a real person.

I'm literally not even sure if you're trolling anymore. That he's a floating head is a stylistic choice - it's still a representation of Dr. Kawashima, a real-life person who does not belong to Nintendo. For that matter his games aren't even exclusive to Nintendo plaftorms, appearing on iOS, Xbox 360 and a few other platforms (I believe he has one on PC).

So not only is he a real person, that also, ignoring his real life status, makes him a third-party (and not on the same level as third-parties like Sonic and Megaman). Dr. Kawashima isn't happening. Please, for the love of God, stop suggesting characters for the sake of being 'different' and put a touch more thought into them.

 

[Lasifer]

It's a floating of Andross head with floating Rayman hands, it's definitely not a real person.

Yes he is, so if I have a floating George Washington head in a game is he not a real person and viable for Smash?

 

[BluePikmin11]

I'm literally not even sure if you're trolling anymore. That he's a floating head is a stylistic choice - it's still a representation of Dr. Kawashima, a real-life person who does not belong to Nintendo. For that matter his games aren't even exclusive to Nintendo plaftorms, appearing on iOS, Xbox 360 and a few other platforms (I believe he has one on PC).

So not only is he a real person, that also, ignoring his real life status, makes him a third-party (and not on the same level as third-parties like Sonic and Megaman). Dr. Kawashima isn't happening. Please, for the love of God, stop suggesting characters for the sake of being 'different' and put a touch more thought into them.

Whoa all of a sudden he's a third party?
It's not even trademarked Brain Age in those other non-Nintendo platforms.

 

[OcarinaOfDoom]

Are we seriously discussing Dr. Kawashima as a Smash character? That's as stupid as putting in Shigesato Itoi. (yes he actually had a game. link)

 

[BluePikmin11]

Are we seriously discussing Dr. Kawashima as a Smash character? That's as stupid as putting in Shigesato Itoi. (yes he actually had a game. link)

No at least Brain Age is a popular series.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_Age:_Train_Your_Brain_in_Minutes_a_Day!

 

[YoshiandToad]

Between Mr. Hanafuda, Nintendogs and Dr. Kawashima, I'm now 100% positive Bluepikmin11 is just screwing with us.

 

[CalumG]

Whoa all of a sudden he's a third party?
It's not even trademarked Brain Age in those other non-Nintendo platforms.

It doesn't matter if they're trademarked as 'Brain Age' on the other platforms. Dr. Kawashima shows up on other platforms, so he's third-party. Plus he's a real-life person, so he goes beyond third-party - he's the hypothetical 'fourth-party' if you will, even though that terminology makes no sense. He's about as far removed as a person can be from ever being playable, or even represented. Maybe if he was a fictional character he'd have a chance, and even then it would be a real freakin' slim one.

 

[Diddy Kong]

all those characters use different forms I different ways. Ya they are similar, but different in that respect. Zelda/Shiek can change willingly, Samus forces you to switch, which may or may not gimp you. Ice climbers theres always 2 on the field, and pkmn trainer has 3 with stamina. Theyre used in different ways

One thing though, not many use Zelda / Sheik both. There are WAY MORE people who just use one of the characters, if they play them at all.

Also, Zelda was overshadowed by Sheik in 2 games now.

 

[OcarinaOfDoom]

No at least Brain Age is a popular series.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_Age:_Train_Your_Brain_in_Minutes_a_Day!

IT'S A REAL PERSON. We aren't getting a real person in Smash Bros. He's 4th party. And if you says he's first party, Brain Age is first party. Dr. Kawashima is not owned by Nintendo

 

[FalKoopa]

One thing though, not many use Zelda / Sheik both. There are WAY MORE people who just use one of the characters, if they play them at all.

Also, Zelda was overshadowed by Sheik in 2 games now.

>Implying Sakurai cares how you play the character.

>Implying Sakurai gives a flying **** about the tier list.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

IT'S A REAL PERSON. We aren't getting a real person in Smash Bros. He's 4th party. And if you says he's first party, Brain Age is first party. Dr. Kawashima is not owned by Nintendo

Are you sure?

Once you go Nintendo...you NEVER go back

 

[BluePikmin11]

So I don't really get how there was Brain Age music and Nintendog as an AT in Smash Bros. Brawl. I'm having a real bad headache.

 

[Diddy Kong]

>Implying Sakurai cares how you play the character.

>Implying Sakurai gives a flying **** about the tier list.

He does care about balance. He even nerfed Sheik two times. Once in the PAL version of Melee, and later in Brawl (and HARD).

Also, he can't balance them for ****.

Look at Zero Suit Samus. Heaps better than Samus.
Look at Pokémon Trainer. Squirtle is amazing on his own, Ivysaur and Charizard not that much.
Look at Zelda / Sheik in Melee. Sheik: top tier. Zelda : lolwhosZeldatier

 

[CalumG]

So I don't really get how there was Brain Age music and Nintendog as an AT in Smash Bros. Brawl. I'm having a real bad headache.

The music is copyrighted property of Nintendo. Dr. Kawashima and real-life dogs are not. It's literally that simple.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Whatever you guys win, but if it happens you owe me 10,000 bows.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

He does care about balance. He even nerfed Sheik two times. Once in the PAL version of Melee, and later in Brawl (and HARD).

He might care about balance, but I don't think he will cut Sheik based off of your reasoning.

 

[NickerBocker]

One thing though, not many use Zelda / Sheik both. There are WAY MORE people who just use one of the characters, if they play them at all.

Also, Zelda was overshadowed by Sheik in 2 games now.

I think Zelda has to be tweaked a little. She has potential, but I find that the range on some of her magic is low, which kind of defeats the purpose of being a ranged character. I find using things like Nayrus love usually just ends with me getting comboed after they just break through the attack. Shiek is fine, but her smashes should be like in melee.

 

[Diddy Kong]

He might care about balance, but I don't think he will cut Sheik based off of your reasoning.

They aren't my reasoning alone you know. Lot's of places where I never even been bring this up themselves. If they can think of this, Sakurai can.

 

[FalKoopa]

He does care about balance. He even nerfed Sheik two times. Once in the PAL version of Melee, and later in Brawl (and HARD).

Also, he can't balance them for ****.

Look at Zero Suit Samus. Heaps better than Samus.
Look at Pokémon Trainer. Squirtle is amazing on his own, Ivysaur and Charizard not that much.
Look at Zelda / Sheik in Melee. Sheik: top tier. Zelda : lolwhosZeldatier

Okay, let's cut Samus and make Squirtle a solo character. If I can think of this, surely can Sakurai can think of this too, right?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

They aren't my reasoning alone you know. Lot's of places where I never even been bring this up themselves. If they can think of this, Sakurai can.

The size of your reasoning doesn't matter. You're advocating replacing Sheik with Impa, who would most likely have a similar playstyle to the former, which would solve nothing balance wise. Not to mention, Meta Knight was OP as ****. Guess we should replace him too right? Or how about Ganondorf?

Fact is, Sheik is still relevant based off of Nintendo's repeated re-releases of OoT. There isn't any real reason to replace an already similar character based off of preference, which I don't think Sakurai will do.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

>implying Sakurai even does that much to balance

Jesus christ, how much do you actually think the guy does? I mean I'm not bashing Game Production since I'm in that, but holy hell. I'm really curious to see how much people actually think producer's do.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Okay, let's cut Samus and make Squirtle a solo character. If I can think of this, surely can Sakurai can think of this too, right?

Suprisingly, most people are cool with Impa over Sheik. But most don't really care about Zelda cause their favorite (Skull Kid, Vaati, Midna, Ghirahim, Masked Link) is / are extremely unlikely. I bet there are more people cool with Impa over Sheik than Chrom over Ike (a thing I do NOT support for example).

Sakurai can't balance for ****. And it's especially noticed with duo characters. Hell, even Ice Climbers are done ****ty cause of chaingrab wobbling.

Pokémon Trainer can be easily fixed with first of all, removing stamina. Then, make Chairzard more aerial (lol) and mobile, and far less clumpsy. Ivysaur, improve Razor Leaf and different mechanics for tether-recovery will do.

Samus needs Melee missiles. But her and Zero Suit Samus where never implied to work toghetet. And neither can they switch. Essentially, they are two separate characters. ZSS is fine though.

Luckily Sakurai realised that him balancing the game alone doesn't work. So there's big hopemfor improvement there.

 

[Gune]

>implying Sakurai even does that much to balance

Jesus christ, how much do you actually think the guy does? I mean I'm not bashing Game Production since I'm in that, but holy hell. I'm really curious to see how much people actually think producer's do.

what do they do im curious.

 

[Jim_Puff]

Okay guys! My new roster has been made! :D

It's time to show you guys what I've been wasting my time on!

CHARACTER AMOUNT: 46 Character Slots | 50 including transformations

Cut characters:

{} Ike - Since Fire Emblem: Awakening came out, a character representing the new game is a likely choice, but having three characters for Fire Emblem may be a bit much for now, and so that's why Ike was cut from my roster.

-------

The series I will be discussing below will only be about ones that I feel the need to discuss about and newcomers. Series like the Yoshi series didn't change at all, so there's no point in talking about it.

MARIO SERIES
Since the Mario series is pretty much Nintendo's most notable and popular franchise, another representative is probably going to show up. Bowser Junior was my choice for the new rep. We already have three protagonists and one villain, so it would not hurt to add another villain to the game. Bowser Junior is the most popular and viable choice. Other characters, like Toad or Fawful, are incredible characters with enough representation in the actual games so that they can make it into Smash, but Bowser Junior, in my opinion, is the more suitable character for Smash.


DONKEY KONG SERIES
The DK series is in need of another representative, and King K. Rool is the best choice. Sure, Dixie is great and all, but King K. Rool has huge moveset potential, is a fan favorite, and is just a cool character. It's time for King K. Rool to return and wreak havoc.

LEGEND OF ZELDA SERIES
This was a tough decision. After countless hours of pondering, and reading arguments on this very thread, I've decided the Zelda series does not need a new character. We have the main characters, Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf, and we have the counterpart of Link, Toon Link. There really is no need for another character. Characters like Impa or Toon Zelda feels a little forced, and the ideas of changing Zelda by removing Sheik or replacing Sheik with Impa isn't right, well at least in my opinion.

POKEMON SERIES
The 'newcomer,' for the Pokemon series will probably be Mewtwo. Mewtwo has gotten so popular, that it'd be very confusing to why he didn't return. Also, with the new Mega Evolutions in Pokemon X and Y, Mewtwo has gained significance in the series again. As for Lucario, he's a solid character and also very popular. In addition, Lucario gains a Mega Evolution as well, so that gives him slightly more significance as well.

What I had in mind for Mewtwo and Lucario is this:

MEWTWO: Mewtwo's final smash transforms him into Mega Mewtwo for a short period of time, and he gains a boost in strength, speed, etc.

LUCARIO: Lucario's final smash is the same as in Brawl. However, in battle, when Lucario reaches a high enough percentage, he'll automatically Mega Evolve. His attack is increased at this point. Some may think he'd be overpowered at this point, but Lucario is still at a high percentage. He can still be KO'd just as easily when in Mega form compared to him without it. It'd be a unique mechanic to him.

METROID SERIES
The Metroid series had quite the high amount of representation in terms of music, stages and items in the Smash Bros. series. But a new character for Metroid has never been added yet. Ridley is the best choice. He's super popular, and is the rival of Samus. And, he looks pretty awesome. Ridley has a superb chance of getting into Sm4sh, and so his inclusion in my roster was an obvious one.

KID ICARUS SERIES
I debated about this for a while, arguing that the Kid Icarus franchise is too small for a new rep. I changed my mind, since the Mother series seemed to get 2, and Kid Icarus can be fine with two characters representing it. And, the best choice would probably be Palutena. Magnus and Hades are cool and all, but Palutena is such a unique and fun character, that I'd rather have her than anyone else.

FIRE EMBLEM SERIES
I mentioned above that I cut Ike for a new character from Fire Emblem: Awakening. My roster says Chrom, but actually, I'd be happy with any of the following characters:

Anna
Lucina

Their cool and unique characters, and I'd be thrilled to see them in game. Chrom is the more likely choice, but Anna and Lucina are still viable characters and I'd like to see them in my roster.

OTHER SERIES
In my roster, I included some other characters as well.

Little Mac: He's a super popular character, and it's about time he made it into Smash.

Shulk: A great character with incredible potential given the success of Xenoblade.

Takamaru: A successful and great choice for a new Retro character in the series. I usually prefer Sheriff, but Takamaru is preferable to me.

------

And that's it! Thanks for reading!

Feel free to critique!

 

[MasterOfKnees]

>implying Sakurai even does that much to balance

Jesus christ, how much do you actually think the guy does? I mean I'm not bashing Game Production since I'm in that, but holy hell. I'm really curious to see how much people actually think producer's do.

It varies a lot how much game producers are involved of course, but Sakurai is one of the most involved in the whole game industry. Nearly every little detail in Brawl was his thing, right down to animations, even if he didn't animate them himself he used Micro Men to pose and take pictures with to make a frame by frame animation. That's just one of the things.

Sakurai said the way they balance is that he plays with different people to get a feel of each character. Sakurai is involved in balancing. Smash Bros is Sakurai's poster child, he is responsible for just about everything in the game, which is also why it is such crazily hard work for him. I can see Sakurai's quote holds true "People have no idea how hard we work."

 

[Louie G.]

I fully expect Fire emblem and Donkey Kong to have one new rep each and of course I would like to see Ridley as a new Metroid character and any new Mother character really.

I can tell you love Mother by your Ness profile pic, but I don't think that Mother should have 3 reps and Kid Icarus should only have one, being that they both have the same amount of games.

Okay guys! My new roster has been made! :D

It's time to show you guys what I've been wasting my time on!

View attachment 2402

CHARACTER AMOUNT: 46 Character Slots | 50 including transformations

Cut characters:

{} Ike - Since Fire Emblem: Awakening came out, a character representing the new game is a likely choice, but having three characters for Fire Emblem may be a bit much for now, and so that's why Ike was cut from my roster.

-------

The series I will be discussing below will only be about ones that I feel the need to discuss about and newcomers. Series like the Yoshi series didn't change at all, so there's no point in talking about it.

MARIO SERIES
Since the Mario series is pretty much Nintendo's most notable and popular franchise, another representative is probably going to show up. Bowser Junior was my choice for the new rep. We already have three protagonists and one villain, so it would not hurt to add another villain to the game. Bowser Junior is the most popular and viable choice. Other characters, like Toad or Fawful, are incredible characters with enough representation in the actual games so that they can make it into Smash, but Bowser Junior, in my opinion, is the more suitable character for Smash.


DONKEY KONG SERIES
The DK series is in need of another representative, and King K. Rool is the best choice. Sure, Dixie is great and all, but King K. Rool has huge moveset potential, is a fan favorite, and is just a cool character. It's time for King K. Rool to return and wreak havoc.

LEGEND OF ZELDA SERIES
This was a tough decision. After countless hours of pondering, and reading arguments on this very thread, I've decided the Zelda series does not need a new character. We have the main characters, Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf, and we have the counterpart of Link, Toon Link. There really is no need for another character. Characters like Impa or Toon Zelda feels a little forced, and the ideas of changing Zelda by removing Sheik or replacing Sheik with Impa isn't right, well at least in my opinion.

POKEMON SERIES
The 'newcomer,' for the Pokemon series will probably be Mewtwo. Mewtwo has gotten so popular, that it'd be very confusing to why he didn't return. Also, with the new Mega Evolutions in Pokemon X and Y, Mewtwo has gained significance in the series again. As for Lucario, he's a solid character and also very popular. In addition, Lucario gains a Mega Evolution as well, so that gives him slightly more significance as well.

What I had in mind for Mewtwo and Lucario is this:

MEWTWO: Mewtwo's final smash transforms him into Mega Mewtwo for a short period of time, and he gains a boost in strength, speed, etc.

LUCARIO: Lucario's final smash is the same as in Brawl. However, in battle, when Lucario reaches a high enough percentage, he'll automatically Mega Evolve. His attack is increased at this point. Some may think he'd be overpowered at this point, but Lucario is still at a high percentage. He can still be KO'd just as easily when in Mega form compared to him without it. It'd be a unique mechanic to him.

METROID SERIES
The Metroid series had quite the high amount of representation in terms of music, stages and items in the Smash Bros. series. But a new character for Metroid has never been added yet. Ridley is the best choice. He's super popular, and is the rival of Samus. And, he looks pretty awesome. Ridley has a superb chance of getting into Sm4sh, and so his inclusion in my roster was an obvious one.

KID ICARUS SERIES
I debated about this for a while, arguing that the Kid Icarus franchise is too small for a new rep. I changed my mind, since the Mother series seemed to get 2, and Kid Icarus can be fine with two characters representing it. And, the best choice would probably be Palutena. Magnus and Hades are cool and all, but Palutena is such a unique and fun character, that I'd rather have her than anyone else.

FIRE EMBLEM SERIES
I mentioned above that I cut Ike for a new character from Fire Emblem: Awakening. My roster says Chrom, but actually, I'd be happy with any of the following characters:

Anna
Lucina

Their cool and unique characters, and I'd be thrilled to see them in game. Chrom is the more likely choice, but Anna and Lucina are still viable characters and I'd like to see them in my roster.

OTHER SERIES
In my roster, I included some other characters as well.

Little Mac: He's a super popular character, and it's about time he made it into Smash.

Shulk: A great character with incredible potential given the success of Xenoblade.

Takamaru: A successful and great choice for a new Retro character in the series. I usually prefer Sheriff, but Takamaru is preferable to me.

------

And that's it! Thanks for reading!

Feel free to critique!

Yay! Palutena's back!
Edit: Double Post, sorry!

 

[Jim_Puff]

Yay! Palutena's back!
Edit: Double Post, sorry!

Yep! I needed to sit down and really think, and then I decided to add her back.