Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[CalumG]

Really?

The guy made Ganondorf a clone of Captain Falcon. Ganondorf. And he came close to including Wario as a Mario clone, too.

I'm not saying it's likely, but would you really put it past the guy to make Paper Mario a clone?

 

[Depressed Gengar]

@CalumG

At least Paper Mario COULD be entirely unique. There are some characters that are at least guaranteed to be semi-clones.

But, knowing Sakurai, Paper Mario could ALSO be semi-clone as well. :/

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Paper Mario would be a clone. With VERY different moves. Such as Ike and Marth. But MUCH more different. Well clone is a strong word. Lets just say similar.

And Lol that was my bad. I was thinking of something else.

I'd be shocked if he had one single move that remotely resembled Mario's. And I don't think you know what "Clone" refers to in Super Smash Brothers.

 

[SmashPro97]

L

I'd be shocked if he had one single move that remotely resembled Mario's. And I don't think you know what "Clone" refers to in Super Smash Brothers.

Like we need another Mario. No wonder Dr. Mario was taken out. I recommend Paper Mario at least being an assist trophy.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

The guy made Ganondorf a clone of Captain Falcon. Ganondorf.

Did you notice they share the same body structure and Ganondorf has the ability to do all of those things!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?

Do you not realize that Paper Mario being a semi-clone would defeat the purpose of having that version of Mario ENTIRELY!!!!

At least Paper Mario COULD be entirely unique. There are some characters that are at least guaranteed to be semi-clones.

But, knowing Sakurai, Paper Mario could ALSO be semi-clone as well. :/

 

[SmashPro97]

@CalumG

At least Paper Mario COULD be entirely unique. There are some characters that are at least guaranteed to be semi-clones.

But, knowing Sakurai, Paper Mario could ALSO be semi-clone as well. :/

Don't count on it. Ike is way too much different than Marth. Only but one move they share. If Paper Mario where to be added, he would have different moves than Mario I have to admit. But isn't one Mario enough? Come on peeps.

 

[CalumG]

Did you notice they share the same body structure and Ganondorf has the ability to do all of those things!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?

Ganondorf did not have the ability to do all those things. He did many things - shooting electricity from his hands, riding around on a horse, using a trident, going beast-mode, spinning fireballs, teleportation, turning invisible, sword-wielding - but Ganondorf never did any kind of actual physical attacks like the ones he did in Melee. He didn't begin doing those things (such as punching one of the sages out of existence in TP) until after he became a Falcon clone. Don't talk about things if you don't know what it is you're talking about.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Like we need another Mario. No wonder Dr. Mario was taken out.

Dr. Mario didn't make it because of time constraints. His coding is still in the game.

I recommend Paper Mario at least being an assist trophy.

..................who are you?

Don't count on it. Ike is way too much different than Marth. Only but one move they share. If Paper Mario where to be added, he would have different moves than Mario I have to admit. But isn't one Mario enough? Come on peeps.

Why does it matter if we have to characters with Mario in their name when they share little to no similarities whatsoever? Having Dr. Mario is stupid because it's just Mario in doctor clothes, but I don't think anyone gives a **** if this character is TECHNICALLY Mario even though he shares nothing with Mario.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

SHY GUY from Yoshi series!!

No.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Ganondorf did not have the ability to do all those things. He did many things - shooting electricity from his hands, riding around on a horse, using a trident, going beast-mode, spinning fireballs, teleportation, turning invisible, sword-wielding - but Ganondorf never did any kind of actual physical attacks like the ones he did in Melee. He didn't begin doing those things (such as punching one of the sages out of existence in TP) until after he became a Falcon clone. Don't talk about things if you don't know what it is you're talking about.

So by your logic: because Mario has never been seen drinking a glass of water, he therefore does not have the ability to do that just like everyone else. C. Falcon didn't have those abilities either.

The fact that you posted this after suggesting Paper Mario be a semi-clone makes it clear who is the one who hasn't the slightest clue what he's talking about.

 

[Jak_spoon]

So by your logic: because Mario has never been seen drinking a glass of water, he therefore does not have the ability to do that just like everyone else. C. Falcon didn't have those abilities either.

The fact that you posted this after suggesting Paper Mario be a semi-clone makes it clear who is the one who hasn't the slightest clue what he's talking about.

attack the character not the player​

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Basically my reaction to the current topic being "Paper Mario being a semi-clone."

I'll come back later...

 

[CalumG]

Spoiler

Fireball:

Spoiler

Uppercut:

Spoiler

Spin:

I'm not saying I want Paper Mario to be a clone. I'm not saying he should, or even that he will be. But to straight up say he won't be or can't be? That's moronic. Open your eyes to both the best possibilties as well as the worst ones, because Ganondorf is proof that crazier stuff has happened in the past.

 

[SmashPro97]

Dr. Mario didn't make it because of time constraints. His coding is still in the game.



..................who are you?



Why does it matter if we have to characters with Mario in their name when they share little to no similarities whatsoever? Having Dr. Mario is stupid because it's just Mario in doctor clothes, but I don't think anyone gives a **** if this character is TECHNICALLY Mario even though he shares nothing with Mario.

Who gives a f*ck about Dr. Mario is what I'm trying to say.

I could ask you the same thing.

How many people know Super Mario Brothers than Paper Mario? Think about those poor fans with no knowledge of SSB too. Just don't see why Paper Mario should be added considering he is Mario himself. Two Marios. Whoop di doo. Melee all over again. Paper Mario should stick on making his own games.

I respect Paper Mario, don't get me wrong. He's a pimp.

 

[CalumG]

I just don't understand why some people get offended at the suggestion of their favourite character ending up a clone/semi-clone. It's happened before and it'll happen again. I had high hopes for both Ganondorf and Lucas as original characters and it didn't happen. I was okay with Lucas because I saw it coming (I'm still mad 'bout Ganon though, not gonna lie).

Seriously, you'd think I insulted somebody's religion just there. I don't want Paper Mario to be a clone, but to 100% rule it out is naive.

 

[SmashPro97]

I just don't understand why some people get offended at the suggestion of their favourite character ending up a clone/semi-clone. It's happened before and it'll happen again. I had high hopes for both Ganondorf and Lucas as original characters and it didn't happen. I was okay with Lucas because I saw it coming (I'm still mad 'bout Ganon though, not gonna lie).

Seriously, you'd think I insulted somebody's religion just there. I don't want Paper Mario to be a clone, but to 100% rule it out is naive.

EXACTLY! Sometimes you have to face the fact that your favorite character is going to have some critics. And if you can't accept it, then you can just leave. This is a forum. Where everyone should express their opinions. And opinions are never right or wrong.

 

[FinalStarmen]

I personally do not agree any more clones. Toon Link was bad enough for me. Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, Yarn Kirby? Not for me. Toad, on the other hand, fits perfectly because he is in lots of Super Mario games. Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Toad. Now that's the perfect roster for the Mario category.

Mind I ask how, in under any categorization of circumstance, does Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, and Yarn Kirby even conceive the idea that they are a carbon-copy clones, let alone on the same level as Toon Link? I can understand if by definition of 'clones', you mean to state 'different variations of characters', but even then, by account of your own specific wording, it is an unwarranted assumption based on misconceived notions.

1. Bowser Jr.: If we're going by the definition of comparison between Toon Link and Link to identify clones, Bowser Jr. would fail this criteria when compared to Bowser, because Bowser Jr. and Bowser aren't different variations of each other, they are completely separate identities unto themselves. Never mind the fact that already being classified under different sets of weight and height will already characterize Bowser Jr. separately from his father, and never mind the fact Bowser Jr. already has an arsenal of weaponry at his disposal (Magic Paintbrush), I cannot find any reason as to how he can even be considered a clone. Because he's biologically related to his father? Going by this logic, Diddy Kong would be a clone of Donkey Kong. Basically, unlike Paper Mario and Yarn Kirby, Bowser Jr. is not an redesigned alternate of another character, but rather his own.

2. Paper Mario: I will concede that Paper Mario is a differentiated variation of Mario, similar to how Toon Link is one of Link, yet there are critical differences to consider why Paper Mario is a viable asset to Smash. First and foremost is that Paper Mario brings in a unique assortment of diversity with him, namely a successfully growing franchise to represent (Mario RPGs), alongside innumerable items, trophies, characters, music, and stages. Poetically speaking, Paper Mario (and his respective series as a whole) has blossomed into a uncommon garden of potential flowers, that it would be a shame for Sakurai to not pick some of them.

Secondly, let us discuss how distinct Paper Mario would be from Mario, if these combatants were to do gladiator battle in the arena of Smash. In terms of physics, Paper Mario would rely on different properties from Mario. Not only would Paper Mario be a lighter character to begin with, but also more floaty, due to his nature of composed entirely of dried cellulose pulp. Not only that, but because of this, Paper Mario's attack would rely on a thematic of paper-stylized maneuvers, including gliding like an airplane or using scissors to cut through objects. Of course the moveset pool of potential is quite distinctly large enough to notice, yet the key aspect here is distinct, in that Paper Mario would effortlessly be able to make his moveset exclusively his own special set, much more variously than Mario and especially other characters.

3. Yarn Kirby: To keep this short and succinct, I'll just explain this - Yarn Kirby would encompass not only an entirely different moveset than Kirby because of his yarn-like properties, but would also have, again, have different classifications of physics and attacks. Yarn Kirby not only has the inability to copy opponents moves, but is also unable to even float through the skies because air simply goes through his through-like body. Instead, Yarn Kirby would have to rely on his whip, which would give him considerable reach and grappling qualities, and compensates the lack of floating by gliding through air with a parachute. Take out Kirby's two identifiable characteristics, replace them with a different set of moves, and you have a Yarn Kirby that cannot even be considered a rendered clone. Not only this, but at the very least Yarn Kirby would bring in more diversity through his own universe of lovable fabric interwoven with whimsical designs and colorful sights.

I understand that even if I've taken your words out of context, in that you considered the term 'clone' to mean 'different variations of characters' (as I've said previously), I still take into account these two lessons to learn. One is that what I hope we all take away from this is the special qualities that these three potential characters possess, and that under no circumstance should they ever be misconstrued to be meaningless diversions from the main gameplay of Smash. Rather than being subtractions or even additions, they're multiplications of the process. Two, that if you're going to define a character as a 'clone', by whatever definition you are using, you should not only be able to thoroughly explain your thought-processes on the term, but at the very least be able to provide sufficient reasons as to why to reasoning led to your conclusion.

That said, I wholeheartedly concur that Toad is a well-deserved, meaningfully important, and even long overdue process of a potential character that has yet to be in Smash. Yet, that does not necessarily mean his competition in Paper Mario and Bowser Jr. is easy because they are apparently 'clones'. They are not. If anything will prevent Toad from getting in the game, and instead having Paper Mario and Bowser Jr. reconsidered, it's unfortunately bad luck on Toad's part. That said, I truly consider Toad the more critical part of the whole Mario sum, if you must ask.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

How many people know Super Mario Brothers than Paper Mario? Think about those poor fans with no knowledge of SSB too.

1. If they have no knowledge I'd hardly count them as fans or take into consideration what character they prefer.
2. Mario has 4 characters from the mainstream series, is that not enough???

The problem with your "Paper Mario is technically the same entity as Mario"defense can be summed up in 2 words:

I just don't understand why some people get offended at the suggestion of their favourite character ending up a clone/semi-clone. It's happened before and it'll happen again. I had high hopes for both Ganondorf and Lucas as original characters and it didn't happen. I was okay with Lucas because I saw it coming (I'm still mad 'bout Ganon though, not gonna lie).

Seriously, you'd think I insulted somebody's religion just there. I don't want Paper Mario to be a clone, but to 100% rule it out is naive.

I don't even have a problem with semi-clones. The problem is that suggesting Paper Mario be a semi-clone of Mario is like having Palutena be a semi-clone of Ridley. If I recall they only move they share is fire ball THAT'S IT!

I mean honestly, you do realize the POINT of Paper Mario, right? You do realize that there are several personas of Mario and that if you take away Paper Mario's abilities and sole uniqueness his addition is 100% Random and pointless. If you suggested Fire Mario or Tanooki Mario as semi-clones that makes sense, but honest to god, Paper Mario a semi-clone!?!?

EXACTLY! Sometimes you have to face the fact that your favorite character is going to have some critics. And if you can't accept it, then you can just leave. This is a forum. Where everyone should express their opinions. And opinions are never right or wrong.

Opinions can still be utterly stupid and because this is a forum, we have the right to criticize you opinions and point out their flaws. Just because you criticize something doesn't mean that your critique contained any logic whatsoever.

This has nothing to do with me liking Paper Mario. This is about you making false accusations and assumptions of him.

 

[CalumG]

I don't even have a problem with semi-clones. The problem is that suggesting Paper Mario be a semi-clone of Mario is like having Palutena be a semi-clone of Ridley.

Right. Paper Mario as a clone of Mario would be like Palutena being a clone of Ridley... because Ridley and Palutena are both from the same series, both share a wealth of moves, are both the same person and both share the same name. That logic seems sound to me.

If I recall they only move they share is fire ball THAT'S IT!

Spoiler

Fireball:

Spoiler

Uppercut:

Spoiler

Spin:

I'm not saying I want Paper Mario to be a clone. I'm not saying he should, or even that he will be. But to straight up say he won't be or can't be? That's moronic. Open your eyes to both the best possibilties as well as the worst ones, because Ganondorf is proof that crazier stuff has happened in the past.

I mean honestly, you do realize the POINT of Paper Mario, right? You do realize that there are several personas of Mario and that if you take away Paper Mario's abilities and sole uniqueness his addition is 100% Random and pointless. If you suggested Fire Mario or Tanooki Mario as semi-clones that makes sense, but honest to god, Paper Mario a semi-clone!?!?

Yes. Paper Mario a semi-clone. I don't think it will happen, I don't think it should happen, but if it's an easy addition to the roster like Toon Link was, you can bet your arse Sakurai will take that route. Plus, it's not like semi-clone is the most damning thing to ever happen to a character. It could just be sharing Mario's Up B, Standard B, his old Melee Down B and his throws and then getting a whole wealth of new physical attacks. Semi-clone can range from anything between sharing four or five moves, and sharing 60-70% of their moves.

If Sakurai can butcher Ganondorf into a clone and heavily consider doing the same with Wario, don't put it past him doing the same with Paper Mario.

 

[SmashPro97]

Basically I'm telling you that you're wrong. Oh and Toad, no.

Come on bro. You could have just said that.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Might I mention Zero Suit Samus bares no resemblance to Suited Samus and shares none of her abilities. Do you see people whining about her addition?

We have 4 Mario Characters and will likely have a roster of 45-50. Do you think anybody gives two ****s if Paper Mario is technically the same person as Mario...when he hardly bares any physical resemblance and shares no abilities? How spoiled do you have to be to consider this a problem?

Right. Paper Mario as a clone of Mario would be like Palutena being a clone of Ridley... because Ridley and Palutena are both from the same series, both share a wealth of moves, are both the same person and both share the same name. That logic seems sound to me.

Because Sakurai only clones people from the same series and what influences him to do this is when people have the same NAME

Yes. Paper Mario a semi-clone. I don't think it will happen, I don't think it should happen, but if it's an easy addition to the roster like Toon Link was, you can bet your arse Sakurai will take that route. Plus, it's not like semi-clone is the most damning thing to ever happen to a character. It could just be sharing Mario's Up B, Standard B, his old Melee Down B and his throws and then getting a whole wealth of new physical attacks. Semi-clone can range from anything between sharing four or five moves, and sharing 60-70% of their moves.

If Sakurai can butcher Ganondorf into a clone and heavily consider doing the same with Wario, don't put it past him doing the same with Paper Mario.

I'm just going to accept you haven't the slightest clue WHY Paper Mario stands out from the other Mario nominees and Mario personas! I thought it was painfully and incredibly obvious to everyone.

If Paper Mario was a semi-clone he'd NEVER even be considered. If Sakurai wanted a semi-clone he'd pick someone like Dr. Mario, Metal Mario, or some other power up.

 

[SmashPro97]

1. If they have no knowledge I'd hardly count them as fans or take into consideration what character they prefer.
2. Mario has 4 characters from the mainstream series, is that not enough???

The problem with your "Paper Mario is technically the same entity as Mario"defense can be summed up in 2 words:

Opinions can still be utterly stupid and because this is a forum, we have the right to criticize you opinions and point out their flaws. Just because you criticize something doesn't mean that your critique contained any logic whatsoever.

This has nothing to do with me liking Paper Mario. This is about you making false accusations and assumptions of him.

Nobody cares huh? What ever happen people arguing that Tomato was a fruit? Haha staying off topic here. Most people with such little knowledge like me (and there is a ton of me) will point out that Paper Mario is the same difference as Mario. And then the smart people like you will come out and lecture the stupidity. Same thing as the stupidity saying that the Tomato was a vegetable and the smart saying that is was a fruit. So it implies that people do care.

You may not like Paper Mario, but you damn sure acting like it.

 

[FinalStarmen]

How many people know Super Mario Brothers than Paper Mario? Think about those poor fans with no knowledge of SSB too. Just don't see why Paper Mario should be added considering he is Mario himself. Two Marios. Whoop di doo. Melee all over again. Paper Mario should stick on making his own games.

How many people know any other video game series other than Super Mario? That's a wholly gross and unfair assumption to make, because you can't just take a relatively popular and successful sub-series and compare it to THE most successful franchise in video game history. And as for casual fans of Smash with relatively no knowledge of Nintendo's vast library of games, that doesn't prevent Sakurai from adding obscure characters from obscure franchises as either trophies, references, or even playable characters. Otherwise, we would have never had Mr. Game & Watch or Marth/Roy.

I just don't understand why some people get offended at the suggestion of their favourite character ending up a clone/semi-clone. It's happened before and it'll happen again. I had high hopes for both Ganondorf and Lucas as original characters and it didn't happen. I was okay with Lucas because I saw it coming (I'm still mad 'bout Ganon though, not gonna lie).

Seriously, you'd think I insulted somebody's religion just there. I don't want Paper Mario to be a clone, but to 100% rule it out is naive.

By all means, Paper Mario could very well end up as a clone/semi-clone of Mario, just as he could very well end up being completely diverse and uniquely special. Either possibility is a realistic assumption to make, because for every Lucas/Ness you have an Ike/Marth. What I take from this, then, is that precarious cautiousness, and edged realism, is better served instead of naive optimism and idealistic dreams. With this said, we'll have to wait and see.

I do agree, Ganondorf being a clone of Capt. Falcon is atrociously bizarre and horrendously unfortunate.

EXACTLY! Sometimes you have to face the fact that your favorite character is going to have some critics. And if you can't accept it, then you can just leave. This is a forum. Where everyone should express their opinions. And opinions are never right or wrong.

You are correct in this, yet the freedom of speech to say such opinions is a double-edge sword that swings both ways - just like how everybody else's opinions will be either complimented and/or criticized upon, so will yours. It works both ways.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Paper Mario is the same difference as Mario.

Not sure if that was a typo, but my point is that Paper Mario technically being the same person is in no way an issue, or at least one that the developers would likely acknowledge as it has no negative affect on anything, but spoiled fans who just can't be happy with the roster sharing characters with any similar moves, appearances, and apparently NAMES.

 

[Khoru]

What ever happen people arguing that Tomato was a fruit?

tomatoes are objectively a fruit though; arguing that is akin to saying "well, evolution is only a theory"
slinks back into the shadows

 

[CalumG]

I'm just going to accept you haven't the slightest clue WHY Paper Mario stands out from the other Mario nominees and Mario personas! I thought it was painfully and incredibly obvious to everyone.

Right, ignore every point I made then.

Let me guess, Paper Mario's unique because of his partners, right? And his hammer. And his wealth of items that regular Mario doesn't tend to get. And his ability to do various paper-based maneuvers - rolling up into a tube, becoming a paper sailboat, a paper plane, various other origami shapes. Being able to dodge people easier because of his thin body type. Being able to flip into 3D (although I see that wouldn't be applicable in Smash). His sticker mechanic. I could go on.

I know exactly why people want Paper Mario in Smash - don't make presumptions about the person you're talking to, it makes you look like a douche - but it doesn't change the fact that people have been let down by semi-clone additions before and Sakurai's criteria for what makes an easy clone is nebulous and hard to determine. Every argument you've made so far smacks of the exact same reasoning Toon Link fans used pre-Brawl for why Toon Link should be a unique character, and what did they get? A goddamn clone.

So don't tell me why he shouldn't be a clone. Don't tell me what you think Sakurai would do ("Sakurai would never bother adding Paper Mario if blahablshablah") - tell me why Paper Mario couldn't potentially end up in the exact same position as Toon Link, or Lucas, or even Ganondorf.

 

[SmashPro97]

tomatoes are objectively a fruit though; arguing that is akin to saying "well, evolution is only a theory"
slinks back into the shadows

Why do I feel like you're a creeper? Lol

How many people know any other video game series other than Super Mario? That's a wholly gross and unfair assumption to make, because you can't just take a relatively popular and successful sub-series and compare it to THE most successful franchise in video game history. And as for casual fans of Smash with relatively no knowledge of Nintendo's vast library of games, that doesn't prevent Sakurai from adding obscure characters from obscure franchises as either trophies, references, or even playable characters. Otherwise, we would have never had Mr. Game & Watch or Marth/Roy.

You are correct in this, yet the freedom of speech to say such opinions is a double-edge sword that swings both ways - just like how everybody else's opinions will be either complimented and/or criticized upon, so will yours. It works both ways.

Every time I read your comments, I feel like this medieval person is narrating to me lol. Anyway all I'm saying, dumb people are going to be dumb people. And dumb people are going to point out the obvious thing. Like Paper Mario is basically another Mario. And question it as well. "Why put another Mario?" Hey I have an idea. Lets add a disney character.

Thou art implying that my opinion is a double-edge sword?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Right, ignore every point I made then.

Let me guess, Paper Mario's unique because of his partners, right? And his hammer. And his wealth of items that regular Mario doesn't tend to get. And his ability to do various paper-based maneuvers - rolling up into a tube, becoming a paper sailboat, a paper plane, various other origami shapes. Being able to dodge people easier because of his thin body type. Being able to flip into 3D (although I see that wouldn't be applicable in Smash). His sticker mechanic. I could go on.

I know exactly why people want Paper Mario in Smash - don't make presumptions about the person you're talking to, it makes you look like a douche - but it doesn't change the fact that people have been let down by semi-clone additions before and Sakurai's criteria for what makes an easy clone is nebulous and hard to determine. Every argument you've made so far smacks of the exact same reasoning Toon Link fans used pre-Brawl for why Toon Link should be a unique character, and what did they get? A goddamn clone.

So don't tell me why he shouldn't be a clone. Don't tell me what you think Sakurai would do ("Sakurai would never bother adding Paper Mario if blahablshablah") - tell me why Paper Mario couldn't potentially end up in the exact same position as Toon Link, or Lucas, or even Ganondorf.

I ignored your points because they are dumb. You refuse to acknowledge the REASON for Paper Mario. You seem to be oblivious to the logic standing in front of you. If you have Paper Mario as a semi-clone, people are going to ask "Why PAPER Mario" can't it just be any old plain ****ing Mario!? What point could there possibly be in having a Paper version of Mario if you don't make that part of his character!? I guess if you're gonna have a semi-clone of Mario there's Frog Mario, Metal Mario, 8-bit Mario, 16-bit Mario, Dr. Mario, Tanooki Mario, Fire Mario, F.L.U.D.D Mario, Paint Mario. Why would you pick this version of Mario with SO MUCH uniqueness if you're not going to acknowledge it. Do you honestly think Sakurai would pick Paper Mario because he's lighter? If you're going to add a Mario semi-clone why wouldn't you just bring back Dr. Mario!?

Toon Link is a clone because he shares ALL of those abilities. The fact that he's Young or Toon isn't something that warrants it's own move set. And Toon Link stands out from the other Link choices, where as Paper Mario can be considered tied with other Mario personas. Having Toon Link be a clone of Link makes WAY more sense.
It's simple logic. Paper Mario CAN be a semi-clone of Mario, but you can bet your ass it's not GOING to happen.

To sum it up: It doesn't make any sense. I'm honestly baffled I had to go into greater detail than that 6 word sentence.

Like Paper Mario is basically another Mario. And question it as well. "Why put another Mario?"?

You're not seriously comparing Paper Mario to a Disney characrter are you?

 

[SmashPro97]

Not sure if that was a typo, but my point is that Paper Mario technically being the same person is in no way an issue, or at least one that the developers would likely acknowledge as it has no negative affect on anything, but spoiled fans who just can't be happy with the roster sharing characters with any similar moves, appearances, and apparently NAMES.

You're missing the point. IT'S FREAKING MARIO. What do you think Sakurai's gonna do? Hmm? Huh huh? Hmm?! HUH?! What did he do with Toon Link? Lets say that Brawl is barely going to be announced. And no one knows Toon Link will be there yet. Lets pretend Toon Link is Paper Mario.

Toon Link and Link have the same name. You told me that with Paper Mario.

Toon Link can have different gear. Paper Mario can have a totally different moveset.

Toon Link will NOT be a clone. What did you tell me about Paper Mario being a clone?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

You're missing the point. IT'S FREAKING MARIO. What do you think Sakurai's gonna do? Hmm? Huh huh? Hmm?! HUH?! What did he do with Toon Link? Lets say that Brawl is barely going to be announced. And no one knows Toon Link will be there yet. Lets pretend Toon Link is Paper Mario.

Toon Link and Link have the same name. You told me that with Paper Mario.

Toon Link can have different gear. Paper Mario can have a totally different moveset.

Toon Link will NOT be a clone. What did you tell me about Paper Mario being a clone?

1. You're comparing Paper Mario and his abilities to Toon Link!?!? Are you for real right now?
2. Why does the fact that he's Mario bother anybody besides the spoiled whining minority of Smash Fans. If I added a glob of Fire and said "Oh, well he's technically Donkey Kong..." Who gives a ****! Nobody gave a **** that Zero Suit Samus was still Samus! Yeah, that's time that could have been used to make a different character, but guess what: Nobody gives a ****!

 

[CalumG]

You refuse to acknowledge the REASON for Paper Mario.

Actually no I literally just acknowledged it in my last post. Did you read it

If you have Paper Mario as a semi-clone, people are going to ask "Why PAPER Mario" can't it just be any old plain ****ing Mario!? What point could there possibly be in having a Paper version of Mario if you don't make that part of his character!? I guess if you're gonna have a semi-clone of Mario there's Frog Mario, Metal Mario, 8-bit Mario, 16-bit Mario, Dr. Mario, Tanooki Mario, Fire Mario, F.L.U.D.D Mario, Paint Mario. Why would you pick this version of Mario with SO MUCH uniqueness if you're not going to acknowledge it. Do you honestly think Sakurai would pick Paper Mario because he's lighter? If you're going to add a Mario semi-clone why wouldn't you just bring back Dr. Mario!?

Why Ganondorf? Can't it just be any old plain F-Zero pilot? What possible point could there be in having Ganondorf if you don't acknowledge his character? I guess if you're gonna have a semi-clone of Falcon there's Blood Falcon, Rick Wheeler, Black Shadow, Jody Summer, Pico, Dr. Stewart. Why would you pick Ganondorf, a character with SO MUCH uniqueness if you're not going to acknowledge it. Do you honestly think Sakurai would pick Ganondorf because he's heavier? If you're going to add a Falcon semi-clone why wouldn't you just add Black Shadow!?

 

[FinalStarmen]

Come on bro. You could have just said that.

Why do you take this so offensively? This isn't a philosophical debate hall where participants are trying to argue who is right and who is wrong, but rather a discussion thread where people can share their ideas and talk among each other about such said ideas. When you present an idea, some people will agree and, this is important, some people will disagree. Don't expect everybody to have a united consensus on everything. If you had bothered to read what I wrote, you'd know that I was only taking issue to the unwarranted statement that Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, and Yarn Kirby are clones, which, by the way, none of which these characters I even consider likely over Toad.

Right, ignore every point I made then.

So don't tell me why he shouldn't be a clone. Don't tell me what you think Sakurai would do ("Sakurai would never bother adding Paper Mario if blahablshablah") - tell me why Paper Mario couldn't potentially end up in the exact same position as Toon Link, or Lucas, or even Ganondorf.

Let us keep calm, cool, and collected, and not let this divulge into anything more than just a minor disagreement. We do not want to have another potential flame war here (we've had enough already), so there is no need to fuel the flames by dousing it with gasoline, especially with everybody becoming rather aggressive and hostile towards each other.

That said, you do raise a valid point, in that Paper Mario does have an exceedingly good chance the creative team will just simply rehash his moveset. However, I'd rather use Toon Link as an appropriate example than Ganondorf, because Ganondorf is a rather bizarre case of cloning a moveset from an entirely unrelated character. Ganondorf's case can be literally applied to any other newcomer, only if, however, the creative team feels the need to program an easy moveset, which they could potentially do for last-minute-characters. Even then with using Toon Link and Paper Mario as examples, though, Paper Mario is a mere sub-series character, while Toon Link is the major playable character for a major Zelda title. Their roles are generally different from each other, because Toon Link continues the generational, and sometimes even time-cyclical, journey of various Links and their respective adventures, all importantly connected to each other in the main storyline in some way (the time-line). Meanwhile, the Paper Mario series, in relation to other Mario properties, isn't nearly as encompassing with each other, but rather almost entirely separate universes with different dimensions, sharing similarities in only characters and thematic styles.

In the very case it does happen, because it will for somebody inevitable, there is still nothing wrong with having semi-clones, because granted not everybody is going to have the privilege of being completely unique unto themselves. That said, if this was the case, then why are we arguing about it? if a character is a semi-clone, that doesn't decrease their chances of getting into Smash in the slightest, nor should that make them nonviable to the roster. Why should being a semi-clone be such a detrimental element to a character?

 

[SmashPro97]

1. You're comparing Paper Mario and his abilities to Toon Link!?!? Are you for real right now?
2. Why does the fact that he's Mario bother anybody besides the spoiled whining minority of Smash Fans. If I added a glob of Fire and said "Oh, well he's technically Donkey Kong..." Who gives a ****! Nobody gave a **** that Zero Suit Samus was still Samus! Yeah, that's time that could have been used to make a different character, but guess what: Nobody gives a ****!

If you have Paper Mario as a semi-clone, people are going to ask "Why PAPER Mario" can't it just be any old plain ****ing Mario!?

You're not seriously comparing Paper Mario to a Disney characrter are you?

Who's gonna give a f*ck about Paper Mario anyway? If he is added, IT'S GONNA BE A CLONE BECAUSE IT'S SAKURAI. Why is it so hard for you to see that?

If you have Toon Link as a semi-clone, people are going to ask "Why TOON Link" can't it just be any old pain ****ing Link?!

No no no. Just saying a WTF character. Like Paper Mario for instance.

 

[SmashPro97]

Why do you take this so offensively? This isn't a philosophical debate hall where participants are trying to argue who is right and who is wrong, but rather a discussion thread where people can share their ideas and talk among each other about such said ideas. When you present an idea, some people will agree and, this is important, some people will disagree. Don't expect everybody to have a united consensus on everything. If you had bothered to read what I wrote, you'd know that I was only taking issue to the unwarranted statement that Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, and Yarn Kirby are clones, which, by the way, none of which these characters I even consider likely over Toad.

What was I taking offensively?

Sorry. As you see I have a low processed mind. Just some nut pointing out the obvious. No need to mind **** me.

 

[Deleted member]

The Smash 4 forums:

I'm out for the day.

 

[FinalStarmen]

Every time I read your comments, I feel like this medieval person is narrating to me lol. Anyway all I'm saying, dumb people are going to be dumb people. And dumb people are going to point out the obvious thing. Like Paper Mario is basically another Mario. And question it as well. "Why put another Mario?" Hey I have an idea. Lets add a disney character.

Thou art implying that my opinion is a double-edge sword?

If that is supposed to be insulting, then I am not insulted in the slightest. You should take care to treat everybody in the forums with the same amount of respect they should treat you. Everybody has their special preferences towards their choice of words and vocabulary, including mine, so I shouldn't simply be ostracized because of my manner of speech. Besides, the term 'double-edged sword' is a common theoretical statement regarding that fact that is something can go one way, it will surely go in another. It's not solely medieval in the slightest. I hope you are just simply alleviating the situation by exchanging friendly banter and humorous jokes, instead of trying to be insulting. It is by my dutiful prospects that we'd get along in a cordial and favorable manner.

As for your suggestion of adding a Disney character because of adding another Mario character, I don't get it. I don't understand how you can even logically come to the conclusion that these two subjects correlate with each other. It's a non-sequitur.

Finally, as for your comment about "dumb people are going to be dumb people", I take issue to this, and I'm assuming you are referring to casual fans. There is no need to belittle casual fans (or any other fans) just because their knowledge isn't as vast as the more dedicated veterans of these forums. It's presumptuously arrogant. These "dumb people" have every right to an opinion as much as anybody else, no matter whether their ideas are intelligent or inane. Casual fans are an important aspect to Sakurai and Smash, just like hardcore players. So don't simply say they're "dumb" because they don't understand certain facets of how Smash works.

I should reiterate this: I'm not personally attacking you, nor am I saying "I'm better than you are", because I'm not saying that at all. I'm just simply disagreeing with certain notions of your previous statements, as you are free to do so with mine. All I'm trying to establish, and nearly every other forum user here, is an friendly environment where we can have both agreements and disagreements among ourselves.

 

[SmashPro97]

If that is supposed to be insulting, then I am not insulted in the slightest. You should take care to treat everybody in the forums with the same amount of respect they should treat you. Everybody has their special preferences towards their choice of words and vocabulary, including mine, so I shouldn't simply be ostracized because of my manner of speech. Besides, the term 'double-edged sword' is a common theoretical statement regarding that fact that is something can go one way, it will surely go in another. It's not solely medieval in the slightest. I hope you are just simply alleviating the situation by exchanging friendly banter and humorous jokes, instead of trying to be insulting. It is by my dutiful prospects that we'd get along in a cordial and favorable manner.

As for your suggestion of adding a Disney character because of adding another Mario character, I don't get it. I don't understand how you can even logically come to the conclusion that these two subjects correlate with each other. It's a non-sequitur.

Finally, as for your comment about "dumb people are going to be dumb people", I take issue to this, and I'm assuming you are referring to casual fans. There is no need to belittle casual fans (or any other fans) just because their knowledge isn't as vast as the more dedicated veterans of these forums. It's presumptuously arrogant. These "dumb people" have every right to an opinion as much as anybody else, no matter whether their ideas are intelligent or inane. Casual fans are an important aspect to Sakurai and Smash, just like hardcore players. So don't simply say they're "dumb" because they don't understand certain facets of how Smash works.

I should reiterate this: I'm not personally attacking you, nor am I saying "I'm better than you are", because I'm not saying that at all. I'm just simply disagreeing with certain notions of your previous statements, as you are free to do so with mine. All I'm trying to establish, and nearly every other forum user here, is an friendly environment where we can have both agreements and disagreements among ourselves.

Dumb it down for me please and we're cool.

Oh and I wasn't saying that Mario being a Disney Character. You should read what I said to SaturnGamer 64.

 

[Glaciacott]

Cool, there's a SmashPro in the thread! I'm eager to see what a pro has to say about the topic of the hour

*heads back a couple pages*
...
...

 

[CalumG]

Well this all turned to feces pretty damn fast.

All I was arguing is that Paper Mario could be a clone. Which he could. More bizarre clones have happened in the past, and every doppelganger of an existing character has either been a clone (Dr. Mario, Young Link, Toon Link) or an extension of the original character (Zero Suit). These facts hold true.

Let's just end it at that.

 

[TheBakonBitz]

Who else thinks that Toad is a good choice?

I think Toad is the best choice out of the pool of Mario newcomers, that's for sure. He'd be pretty fun.

I think Toad is the most likely, but then again Bowser Jr is pretty likely too. Then there is the likely possibility of Paper Mario.

SHY GUY from Yoshi series!!