Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[TheLastJinjo]

Who's gonna give a f*ck about Paper Mario anyway?

Millions because he's a highly requested character, do some research.

If he is added, IT'S GONNA BE A CLONE BECAUSE IT'S SAKURAI. Why is it so hard for you to see that?

A number of reasons I can't see that:

1. That's Grade A BULL****!!!!
2. This is your own biased confirmation of something you cannot claim WILL happen, when the odds of that happening are maybe 9,00,000 to 1 and a man like Sakurai knows when something doesn't make sense. Plain & Simple: Toon Link as a clone makes sense. Paper Mario as a clone does NOT make sense. Why is it so hard for YOU to see something so obvious?
3. You base this off of nothing other than 1 character (who is extremely similar and shares all moves with Link) was a clone of his older self.
4. Nothing suggests a character's abilities are based off their name. You compare Toon Link to Paper Mario!!! This is a horrible example!!!

If you have Toon Link as a semi-clone, people are going to ask "Why TOON Link" can't it just be any old pain ****ing Link?!

Because Toon Link got picked for good reasons, and what he is in the game satisfies the reasons in which he was picked. The reasons for picking Paper Mario do not match your suggested outcome of having Paper Mario meaning you'd be picking Paper Mario for a reason, but the reason you picked him is not present in the game making his addition pointless. The "vision" needs to match the outcome. If Sakurai WANTED another Mario semi-clone, then by logic he'd pick somebody who better fits the criteria.


I'd like to remind you Ganondorf is a clone because during the production of Melee Sakurai couldn't think of any other clones, so he saw Ganondorf and said "Hey, this guy makes a good clone of C. Falcon!" Logically when he looks at somebody like Toon Link he'd say "Yeah, this person fits the same move set as Link" You're suggesting Sakurai would look at Paper Mario and think the same. The common and logical assumption is that he wouldn't. Nobody can prove he won't, but that's like nobody can prove Bowser Jr won't be a clone of Bowser or even that Little Mac won't be a clone of Marth. But, there are hundreds of reasons why one would think that's not the case, these reasons also outweigh the reasons for having Paper Mario as a semi-clone.

Not to mention this is NOT Melee, if this was Melee I could maybe see Paper Mario as a clone, but this is the 4th installment and Paper Mario has an insanely unique move set, so unique that no other character could imitate it like Villager & Mr. Game & Watch where as characters like Lucas, Wolf, or Pichu have moves that can easily be imitated. Even Ganondorf's abilities aren't that special compared to other people on the roster. I think Sakurai saw Ganonforf as a good C. Falcon like fighter and wants to keep it that way. To be honest, so do I.

Paper Mario is a WTF Character!

 

[BluePikmin11]

Ridley would probably be revealed on Friday.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Ridley talk everywhere I go, except here, I guess.

So what's the current topic?

Paper Mario being a clone of Mario...........................RUN! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[TheCreator]

He probably would, SaturnGamer. If Sakurai sees Paper Mario as Mario at all, he'll be a clone or at least semi clone. It's what Sakurai does to variations of the same character, it's a rule of his. Not defending that dude, but had to say this.

Upon studying Other m Ridley, and the stage that was revealed, to have him be a stage threat in the back, they'd have to OVERSIZE him. If he were to be a stage threat in his other m form, (which he would) he'd be a tiny bit bigger than bowser, and that wouldn't even be a drastic reduction.

 

[Espio264]

I keep seeing commercials for horror movies, they need a genuinely scary character in Smash Bros. (This is not a Ridley comment.) Are there any Nintendo owned horror franchises with viable characters? It'd be goofy like those House of the Dead levels in the Sega all star games, but it'd be something we've not seem in SSB so far.

 

[CalumG]

He probably would, SaturnGamer. If Sakurai sees Paper Mario as Mario at all, he'll be a clone or at least semi clone. It's what Sakurai does to variations of the same character, it's a rule of his. Not defending that dude, but had to say this.

Yup, this.

Plus, I'd again like to point out that there hasn't been a double of a character so far who hasn't been a clone. Toon Link? Clone of Link. Young Link? Clone of Link. Dr. Mario? Clone of Mario. Pichu? Clone of Pikachu. The only double of a character who wasn't a clone is Zero Suit, and that's because she's an actual integrated part of Samus's character instead.

 

[Autumn ♫]

I keep seeing commercials for horror movies, they need a genuinely scary character in Smash Bros. (This is not a Ridley comment.) Are there any Nintendo owned horror franchises with viable characters? It'd be goofy like those House of the Dead levels in the Sega all star games, but it'd be something we've not seem in SSB so far.

Luigi's Mansion

 

[Khoru]

I keep seeing commercials for horror movies, they need a genuinely scary character in Smash Bros. (This is not a Ridley comment.) Are there any Nintendo owned horror franchises with viable characters? It'd be goofy like those House of the Dead levels in the Sega all star games, but it'd be something we've not seem in SSB so far.

eternal darkness?

 

[Glaciacott]

You want horror? We already got that.

 

[shinhed-echi]

How about Eternal Darkness, although I'm not even sure what #Party it is.
But that's definintely horror.

I'd also say Geist, but I haven't gone too far into it yet. But it felt like a playable thriller. So I guess that could be horror as well.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

 

[Gune]

I wanna laugh at this "paper Mario is/isnt going to be a clone" argument but im scared if I do I wont be able to stop...

 

[Espio264]

You want horror? We already got that.

Villager does give off a kind of evil ventriloquist doll vibe.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

He probably would, SaturnGamer. If Sakurai sees Paper Mario as Mario at all, he'll be a clone or at least semi clone. It's what Sakurai does to variations of the same character, it's a rule of his. Not defending that dude, but had to say this.

The rule isn't "Oh, they have the same name! **** their abilities and everything that makes their existence in Smash serve purpose." I'm not sure how you concluded that.

This isn't Melee! Just because you have the same name or are the same person doesn't mean you will be a clone regardless of you having almost no similarities.


Am I the only sane person left?

The only double of a character who wasn't a clone is Zero Suit, and that's because she's an actual integrated part of Samus's character instead.

I need to point out the pure ignorance of this "Not very well though out" statement, Zero Suit Samus is a PERFECT example of why Paper Mario won't be a clone. Are you seriously suggesting that she WOULD be a clone if she was a separate character, I mean really. As if that has any influence on a characters abilities.

The fact that you mentioned Zero Suit Samus's existence basically helped me obtain victory in this debate.
Imma take Gune's advice and not continue this as you people are clearly not listening

If you have anything else to say, let this be my response for the rest of this debate:

 

[N3ON]

If Nintendo had access to them and/or Sakurai wanted to include them, I'd say the scariest possible eligible characters would be those from Fatal Frame. Especially Sae (from FF2). However whether Nintendo even has the rights to the characters or just the rights to publish the IP is definitely a factor, not that Sakurai would include any FF characters to a great capacity anyway.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

If Nintendo had access to them and/or Sakurai wanted to include them, I'd say the scariest possible eligible characters would be those from Fatal Frame. Especially Sae (from FF2). However whether Nintendo even has the rights to the characters or just the rights to publish the IP is definitely a factor, not that Sakurai would include any FF characters to a great capacity anyway.

The inclusion of Snake was actually really exciting for me. I didn't know anything about him, all I knew was how badass having an M rated character be playable in Super Smash Brothers was.

 

[TheCreator]

The rule isn't "Oh, they have the same name! **** their abilities and everything that makes their existence in Smash serve purpose." I'm not sure how you concluded that.

This isn't Melee! Just because you have the same name or are the same person doesn't mean you will be a clone regardless of you having almost no similarities.


Am I the only sane person left?



I need to point out the pure ignorance of this "Not very well though out" statement, Zero Suit Samus is a PERFECT example of why Paper Mario won't be a clone. Are you seriously suggesting that she WOULD be a clone if she was a separate character, I mean really. As if that has any influence on a characters abilities.

The fact that you mentioned Zero Suit Samus's existence basically helped me obtain victory in this debate.

Noah you're wrong. You sound ridiculous, just stop now, lets not get carried away.

http://www.smashbros.com/wii/en_us/characters/hidden11.html

read through that

And having an M rated character is cool, but just one.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Am I the only sane person left?

Sanity died a long time ago, case in point the Ridley situation.

 

[Khoru]

oh wait
i've thought of the obvious horror game rep

Spoiler

 

[CalumG]

I need to point out the pure ignorance of this "Not very well though out" statement, Zero Suit Samus is a PERFECT example of why Paper Mario won't be a clone. Are you seriously suggesting that she WOULD be a clone if she was a separate character, I mean really. As if that has any influence on a characters abilities.

The fact that you mentioned Zero Suit Samus's existence basically helped me obtain victory in this debate.

Paper Mario can shoot fireballs. Paper Mario can swing characters around. Paper Mario can do a spin not unlike Mario's old down B. Paper Mario can punch and kick. Paper Mario's jumps look just like Mario's so there's no reason why he couldn't do Mario's up B too. Paper Mario can do everything Mario's can currently do in his moveset, bar maybe the FLUDD which would look out of place. Zero Suit Samus can't do everything Samus can do - the fundamental basis of Zero Suit Samus is that she doesn't have her primary stock of weapons.

How are you not getting this? I feel like we're having two different arguments here. You're arguing for why Paper Mario shouldn't be a clone (and I agree - he shouldn't be) and I'm arguing for why he could be (which he could, whether you like it or not).

 

[Groose]

oh wait i've thought of the obvious horror game rep: TINGLE

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[TheLastJinjo]

Sanity died a long time ago, case in point the Ridley situation.

I'm trying to catch up with everyone else. So are we talking about Ridley because of the stage reveal?

Noah you're wrong. Just stop now, lets not get carried away.

http://www.smashbros.com/wii/en_us/characters/hidden11.html

read through that

You're wrong Noah, let me post a link to a completely unrelated character and act like it serves significance or states anything contradictory to your side then do nothing else to promote my side as Zero Suit Samus has already ended the debate.

Are you for real, right now? Are you seriously using the "I'm right you're wrong" mentality!?

You're still not getting it. I think you're missing the point of this entire Paper Mario debate. Though, I'd more so call it an argument as you are just repeating the same statement over and over.

 

[Espio264]

I could get behind Eternal Darkness. The characters don't really stand out design wise ( you know in the brief google search I just did), but I know absolutely nothing about it, so I can't make any judgements.

 

[CalumG]

You're wrong Noah, let me post a link to a completely unrelated character and act like it serves significance and then do nothing else to promote my side of my debate as Zero Suit Samus has clearly shown which side of the debate was victorious.

Are you for real, right now? Are you seriously using the "I'm right you're wrong" mentality!?

>Clearly I'm victorious
>Are you seriously using the "I'm right you're wrong" mentality

Pick one.

 

[TheCreator]

"How are you not getting this? I feel like we're having two different arguments here. You're arguing for why Paper Mario shouldn't be a clone (and I agree - he shouldn't be) and I'm arguing for why he could be (which he could, whether you like it or not)."

This. And in ZSS case, she is Samus. ZSS IS Samus. With a different suit on. Like Sheik and Zelda. Besides, these characters exist as transormations anyway, what sense would it make for them to transform into a clone of themselves?

Paper Mario is Mario. With the same suit on. He has different abilities sure, but he's Mario. And that's that. They're the same person.

Sakurai says on that page
"As a rule, all of their specials are the same."
Very related....

 

[Espio264]

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Oh ****! Creepy Tingle gets my vote. He gives me the creepy Tingles.

 

[Hank Hill]

So, we're on creepy Tingle?

Spoiler

 

[Deleted member]

So when not ******** about Ridley, we ***** about Mario characters. In all honesty, Mario already has all it needs. We've got both Mario Bros., the main villain, and even the broad that has to be saved in damn near every game. And that's not considering the signature power-up mount that got so popular that it got it's own franchise for itself and the species as a whole nor the evil clone of Mario that evolved into something more with his own identity and TWO franchises. What's left? The mushroom boy that usually is just.....there? (if he's even there at all and it's not just some other generic member of his lookalike species) The villain's "mini-me", who started off as something unique, then devolved into his namesake? A paper version of Mario that's wanted for rather superficial reasons that SOMEHOW overlook the fact that it's just Mario but paper? A plot-irrelevant sidekick for the previously mentioned evil twin of Mario (who doesn't even appear in either of his two franchises)? The overrated living doll that hasn't had a role in a game since 1996 save for a licensed cameo (as Nintendo doesn't even own him) in another game in 2003? Looking back on it now, if the last minute Melee roster padding that is the doctor version of Mario was considered for inclusion for Brawl before any of these, then what makes things different for them now? With that in mind, perhaps Mario doesn't really need a 5th character. I'd be surprised now if we did get one.

I hate posting on a 3DS. Not only does it **** up my paragraph spacing, but it doesn't let me edit my posts (or reply to messages). My laptop couldn't come back from the repair shop sooner...

 

[shinhed-echi]

So when not *****ing about Ridley, we ***** about Mario characters. In all honesty, Mario already has all it needs. We've got both Mario Bros., the main villain, and even the broad that has to be saved in damn near every game. And that's not considering the signature power-up mount that got so popular that it got it's own franchise for itself and the species as a whole nor the evil clone of Mario that evolved into something more with his own identity and TWO franchises. What's left? The mushroom boy that usually is just.....there? (if he's even there at all and it's not just some other generic member of his lookalike species) The villain's "mini-me", who started off as something unique, then devolved into his namesake? A paper version of Mario that's wanted for rather superficial reasons that SOMEHOW overlook the fact that it's just Mario but paper? A plot-irrelevant sidekick for the previously mentioned evil twin of Mario (who doesn't even appear in either of his two franchises)? The overrated living doll that hasn't had a role in a game since 1996 save for a licensed cameo (as Nintendo doesn't even own him) in another game in 2003? Looking back on it now, if the last minute Melee roster padding that is the doctor version of Mario was considered for inclusion for Brawl before any of these, then what makes things different for them now? With that in mind, perhaps Mario doesn't really need a 5th character. I'd be surprised now if we did get one.

*slow clap begins*

Woah, you said it dude.

I'm pretty sure Mario's not getting another rep anyway. Heck, none of these "super popular" picks were even assist trophies. Instead we got Lakitu and Hammer Bros. Threre's also Petey Pirahna as a boss. Neither of them were Bowser Jr. Paper Mario or Toad. So I'm with you believing no new Mario character will be included.

Wouldn't mind Toad, but I MUCH rather see new franchises.
And with such a small ammount of characters getting in this time, I'm sure Sakurai will make the best of them so this game feels extremely fresh.

-

Just out of curiosity, what's everyone expecting to see in tomorrow's update? (I probably already know the answer)

 

[CalumG]

A paper version of Mario that's wanted for rather superficial reasons that SOMEHOW overlook the fact that it's just Mario but paper?

Marry me.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Guess we should pick a different topic to ***** about. Shall it be Ridley, Fire Emblem or Pokemon again?

 

[shrooby]

Guess we should pick a different topic to ***** about. Shall it be Ridley, Fire Emblem or Pokemon again?

How 'bout all three at the same time?
Sword-wielding psychic-powered Ridley anyone? With a Mega Form?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

How 'bout all three at the same time?
Sword-wielding psychic-powered Ridley anyone? With a Mega Form?

We can call him....

GOD!!!

 

[CalumG]

I'm pretty sure Mario's not getting another rep anyway. Heck, none of these "super popular" picks were even assist trophies. Instead we got Lakitu and Hammer Bros. Threre's also Petey Pirahna as a boss. Neither of them were Bowser Jr. Paper Mario or Toad. So I'm with you believing no new Mario character will be included.

Whilst I agree that Mario doesn't necessarily need a new rep, I'm going to have to call shenanigans on this right here. What does Assist Trophy status have to do with anything? Does Villager not being an Assist Trophy mean he had low chances for Smash 4? Is Andross the next best Star Fox rep, and Metroid the next best Metroid rep (when he can't even crawl )?

Whilst it seems apparent that Sakurai chose some Assists as a consolation prize of sorts for unrepresented franchises (Isaac, Stafy, etc.), it seems pretty clear that things like Lakitu were chosen because they would just be a more unique and interesting Assist. Lack of Assist trophy status doesn't mean jack for Bowser Jr., Paper Mario or Toad.

But yeah otherwise I agree, Mario doesn't necessarily need a new rep (although if he does get one, Toad plz kthx).

 

[shinhed-echi]

Whilst I agree that Mario doesn't necessarily need a new rep, I'm going to have to call shenanigans on this right here. What does Assist Trophy status have to do with anything? Does Villager not being an Assist Trophy mean he had low chances for Smash 4? Is Andross the next best Star Fox rep, and Metroid the next best Metroid rep (when he can't even crawl )?

Whilst it seems apparent that Sakurai chose some Assists as a consolation prize of sorts for unrepresented franchises (Isaac, Stafy, etc.), it seems pretty clear that things like Lakitu were chosen because they would just be a more unique and interesting Assist. Lack of Assist trophy status doesn't mean jack for Bowser Jr., Paper Mario or Toad.

But yeah otherwise I agree, Mario doesn't necessarily need a new rep (although if he does get one, Toad plz kthx).

Good point. Guess what I was trying to say, but failed to express, was how there were several alternative slots open for them to be represented at, and yet Sakurai chose minions over them.


But yeah, I can tell Assist Trophies don't mean MUCH. (Seriously, we don't know this).
Assist Trophies are characters that according to Sakurai didn't "quite make it" as playable characters.

Now this could be due to a number of reasons:
-Time constraints
-Moveset constraints
-Popularity/Recognition vs actual importance

Just to name a few. It's obvious that some ATs are more deserving than others to be PCs. They aren't meant to be put under the exact same circumstances.
ATs help even a tiny bit because it boosts in the Popularity/Recognition department.

 

[Jak_spoon]

i wont lie, i come to this site to get pumped up for smash bros but every announcement sakurai makes just brings me down. does anyone else feel like this?

 

[CalumG]

i wont lie, i come to this site to get pumped up for smash bros but every announcement sakurai makes just brings me down. does anyone else feel like this?

Has he made a bad announcement yet? We've got some far better looking stages than Brawl ever had (in my opinion at least), fan favourites in Megaman and Villager, and contrary to popular belief Ridley is not out of the running just yet. So what's bringing you down?

 

[FalKoopa]

i wont lie, i come to this site to get pumped up for smash bros but every announcement sakurai makes just brings me down. does anyone else feel like this?

Well, I haven't really found anything disappointing in whatever has been revealed by Sakurai...

That feelingprobably comes from people jumping the gun and either becoming overly optimistic or deeply pessimistic.

 

[YoshiandToad]

i wont lie, i come to this site to get pumped up for smash bros but every announcement sakurai makes just brings me down. does anyone else feel like this?

In as much as you were hoping it'd be a bit more like the Dojo from Brawl?

I guess we haven't been shown much that's new outside of the E3 trailer, The Wii Fit Trainer direct and a few stages.

Luigi and Olimar don't seem to have anything new in their arsenal which I guess is a bit disappointing considering they had the potential to have Poltergust and two new Pikmin types but either haven't included them or haven't revealed that they've included them.

I think I'd like to see a new item revealed at some point soon. I'm not sure if we've had any revealed yet?

 

[Jak_spoon]

idk, i think im bummed because of the characters. i know they are sort of cool but im really just not hyped to play the villager or wii fit trainer. and i guess ridly speculations are putting me down.

the stages look exactly how i want them though, but then again who really plays for the stages?