Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[God Robert's Cousin]

The thing about the whole "cuts are bound to happen" shtick.

Sakurai is very much against them, meaning he's going to do everything in his power and not just go the route of "lol Ike no longer recent cut lol Lucario lol Toon Link gone". You want to know what else? Sakurai is definitely considering having a patch system for SSB4. There's no doubt that if they get such a thing going this time, he'll use it to add cut characters. So while we may have cuts initially, it definitely isn't crass to think that long-term, we'll have a Brawl roster without cuts.

Furthermore, when people include uncut rosters as roster predictions, it's safe to assume that the Brawl roster, which Sakurai has pretty much gone out and said is perfect, would be the default batch of characters Sakurai has in mind of including. Roster prediction is, to some people, "What I think Sakurai's intended roster will be" rather than "What I think the initial end-product will be". It'd mean the most accurate Brawl roster prediction would have included the forbidden seven as well, making it incorrect from a presentation standpoint, true. However, I think that would have a lot more depth than being cynical and assuming Sakurai is incompetent and incapable of including each and every veteran he loves equally when the fact is that he wants to keep as close to his plans as possible. Uncut rosters are predictions involving a level of developmental ideals and long-term possibilities.

There's your "uncut roster is unrealistic" bull****.

 

[NickerBocker]

Well I said it was a cuts roster because there are rosters that are no cut rosters. It boils down to one fact, that we dont know how many are getting cut and which ones are more likely. Im not trying to justify my choices completely, but im trying my best to reason it out.

Also, gotta love how people say things like "its not hard to make a unique roster" then followed up by "x series has too many reps"

 

[Curious Villager]

Well if Sakurai managed to get it his way during Brawl, the only cut characters would have been Pichu and Young Link who got replaced with Toon Link who I guess you can say was essentially a redesign like it was for Link, Zelda/Sheik and Ganondorf except he got a rename so it would make sense since Toon Link isn't the younger version of Link like Young Link was. So essentially the only character who was supposed to be cut was Pichu who was pretty much meant to be a joke character anyway for one game and Young Link getting sort of redesigned to the current younger Link since the others got a redesign as well.

So it's not entirely unreasonable to guess that the overall planned roster at least involves no cuts. But what it would end up in the final product could very well involve some cuts. So basically what I'm trying to say is, it's probably mostly dependent on time if we will get everyone from Brawl at least back.

As for Sonic and Snake, that's mostly dependent on Konami and Sega I guess and if Sakurai is willing to bring them back which I guess he probably does.

 

[CalumG]

Well, if we're talking about it this way, then I guess it's really just a matter of semantics. "Roster prediction" could mean a prediction of what Sakurai's ideal roster for the game is, but equally could be interpreted as being a prediction of the end-result - the roster, at release date, pre-DLC. Personally, I buy into the latter option. It's all well and good to discuss characters Sakurai wanted in, and even characters Sakurai may potentially add later down the line, but I take the term "roster prediction" to mean just that - the roster itself on day 1 of release, cut characters and DLC characters excluded.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

So it's not entirely unreasonable to guess that the initial planned roster at least involves no cuts. But what it would end up in the final product could very well involve some cuts. So basically what I'm trying to say is, it's probably mostly dependent on time if we will get everyone back.

Frankly, I think the reason we haven't seen a lot of newcomers and are expected not to see a lot more this time is because Sakurai is focusing on veterans before newcomers. It would explain why we only had 3 newcomers at E3, why we haven't seen any newcomers since, and why we had direct word of their attempt to fix the issues with Ice Climbers in the 3DS version. It all seems to make sense. I think the theory is sound enough, at least. So chances are that if we do get cuts at all, it'll either be a cut newcomer like Dixie was in Brawl, or we'll have an absolute minimal in veteran cuts with possibly Toon Link being lost but later re-added in a patch.

 

[Curious Villager]

Frankly, I think the reason we haven't seen a lot of newcomers and are expected not to see a lot more this time is because Sakurai is focusing on veterans before newcomers. It would explain why we only had 3 newcomers at E3, why we haven't seen any newcomers since, and why we had direct word of their attempt to fix the issues with Ice Climbers in the 3DS version. It all seems to make sense. I think the theory is sound enough, at least. So chances are that if we do get cuts at all, it'll either be a cut newcomer like Dixie was in Brawl, or we'll have an absolute minimal in veteran cuts with possibly Toon Link being lost but later re-added in a patch.

That certainly isn't outside of the realm of possibility, I certainly wouldn't be surprised if we got less newcomers compared to Brawl this time around. I was hoping we would have seen at least one newcomer in the last Nintendo Direct and although we did get a new character, it was a veteran though. Although if Sakurai is planning to turn a number of unlockables into starter characters, he could have probably saved a number of newcomers as unlockables this time around. I do hope we will get to see some more newcomers sometime soon though. but I think that's still too early to tell so we should wait it out a bit longer and see...

Though if Sakurai is going to do patches than yes, any cut characters through time constraints could be finished off and brought back through those.

 

[NickerBocker]

This is why DLC could be a big help this time around. Didn't have the time to add in a character? Patch them in. Have an idea for a new character but its too late to include in the release? DLC. Seriously, the possibilities are endless. Hell, if Sakurai decides to throw a 180 on us and inclide cutscenes, he could add them after on a patch.

The thing is through patches and DLC, we COULD effectively have every character from every game make an appearance. Including cut melee characters as a patch or DLC could be an easy pack to make, and im sure alot of people would be willing to fork out $5 or $10 for mewtwo, roy, pichu, young link and dr mario, even if some are just clones. Same with newcomers.

Now im hesitant to post my other one. Ill save it for another day to anger everyone

 

[Curious Villager]

Yeah but I don't think Sakurai is the type of man who would do planned DLC. He is considering DLC but right now he wants to make sure the games are made to their absolute fullest. I'm sure he will try and include anything he couldn't due to lack of time through DLC though.

 

[SuperBrawler]

I never knew Nintendo to have something like DLC. I mean, you can expect that on a PS3, but not on a Wii U. Or maybe that's just me.

 

[Curious Villager]

They are just recently starting with it. I believe Fire Emblem Awakening was the first Nintendo game to make use of DLC. Oh yeah as well as the New Super Mario Bros games on 3DS and Wii U.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I believe Fire Emblem Awakening was the first Nintendo game to make use of DLC.

E-Reader confirmed for not existing.
Pokemon confirmed for not existing.
Satellaview confirmed for not existing.

 

[Curious Villager]

E-Reader confirmed for not existing.
Pokemon confirmed for not existing.
Satellaview confirmed for not existing.

Okay okay okay okay. chill.

I guess I should have said DLC where you pay money for....

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Of course, nobody said every single character was going to be scrapped for ****s and giggles, but when the very director is warning everyone that cuts are a possible factor then yes at least one character is guaranteed to not return. My money is on Jigglypuff and Toon Link at the moment.

Kinda the same here, and yeah, director's/producer's have been saying stuff all over twitter. I really wonder - If there was a massive cut spree could we handle it? I doubt so. I'm still thinking when it comes to cuts. I'm having a harder time calling shots than I did with Brawl.

Okay okay okay okay. chill.

I guess I should have said paid DLC....

paid

lol

oops

also brawl network

 

[Curious Villager]

paid

lol

oops

also brawl network

Meh, forget about it then.

Anyway, lets talk about something else now. Have we discussed Retro series much?

 

[Depressed Gengar]

We already discussed Star Fox, LOL. Let's discuss... hmmm... Classic characters.

 

[Curious Villager]

What about the likes of Bubbles from Clu Clu Land or Balloon Fighter?

They were previously written off by Sakurai weren't they? What with Balloon fighter being useless when the Balloons pop and all...

 

[TheLastJinjo]

He has NEVER taken two characters with the same body type and shape and given them two completely different movesets.

That's my point, usually those end up being semi-clones and that's not a bad thing.

Besides a difference in jumps, and maybe some slings and certain other attacks that abuse the fact that she has a difference from Diddy, (hair) I see no ability for her to NOT be a clone while staying true to the Donkey Kong series. She has enough potential to be a semi clone.

She does. But, a semi-clone shares SOME moves, Dixie wouldn't be a 100% clone of Diddy.

That said I like clones. I'm all for as many characters as possible, and if that means clones so be it.

But **** Dixie Kong, straight up. Donkey Kong does not need 3 playable protagonists when there is an antagonist that is more suitable for smash bros. in the first place.

What should be is an opinion and does not always affect what will be. Agreed King K. Rool should be in SSB4 over Dixie, but the more likely situation would be Dixie.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Sukapon, Muddy mole, and Takamaru.

Why not? You get Sukapon, who deserves it for sure with no doubts (And if anyone doubts me |: ), Muddy Mole who could have a revival, and Takamaru who has even more of a chance than muddy mole.

I said three. Got a problem with that? Little Macc changed to not being a retro anymore and same with pit.

 

[Curious Villager]

Ah yes Sukapon, I forgot about him. He could certainly work. Muddy Mole would be cool and so would Takamaru.

I wouldn't mind seeing Lip as well actually.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Prince Sabure could also have a revival too.

 

[mimgrim]

The thing about the whole "cuts are bound to happen" shtick.

Sakurai is very much against them, meaning he's going to do everything in his power and not just go the route of "lol Ike no longer recent cut lol Lucario lol Toon Link gone". You want to know what else? Sakurai is definitely considering having a patch system for SSB4. There's no doubt that if they get such a thing going this time, he'll use it to add cut characters. So while we may have cuts initially, it definitely isn't crass to think that long-term, we'll have a Brawl roster without cuts.

Furthermore, when people include uncut rosters as roster predictions, it's safe to assume that the Brawl roster, which Sakurai has pretty much gone out and said is perfect, would be the default batch of characters Sakurai has in mind of including. Roster prediction is, to some people, "What I think Sakurai's intended roster will be" rather than "What I think the initial end-product will be". It'd mean the most accurate Brawl roster prediction would have included the forbidden seven as well, making it incorrect from a presentation standpoint, true. However, I think that would have a lot more depth than being cynical and assuming Sakurai is incompetent and incapable of including each and every veteran he loves equally when the fact is that he wants to keep as close to his plans as possible. Uncut rosters are predictions involving a level of developmental ideals and long-term possibilities.

There's your "uncut roster is unrealistic" bull****.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Just because Sakurai is unable, hypothetical situation here obviously, to bring back every veteran or if people think he won't be able to bring back every veteran doesn't mena he is incompetent or incapable of it or that people think that of him. But this is a fighting game you know and the gameplay and balance is more important then the characters. And the more characters there are in a fighting game means the harder to develop those 2 things, and this goes doubly for a fighting game like Smash due to the nature of the characters, the stages, and the way Smash works compared to other fighting games. And taking into account possible, and highly probably, time constraints cuts are more likely to happen then no cuts. As for the people predicting "What I think Sakurai's intended roster will be" rather than "What I think the initial end-product will be", Well good for them and they can continue to do that for all I care but that isn't what I am trying to go for. I am trying to guess initial end product and nothing else, well besides when I make a joke roster, and I believe cuts are going to be inevitible in the final product. The problem that arises though is that people have differing thoughts and who will be cut. :/

 

[sunfallSeraph]

I'm prepared to catch some flak for this, but regarding the cuts issue...

I guess I don't really get why some of us take the issue so personally? It seems like every time the subject is broached, at least as much (if not more) drama arises than critical discussion. I mean sure, of course no one wants a character they like in Brawl to get cut. I'm hardly saying there's nothing to relate to there. But I fail to grasp why the possibility seems to come across as such a personal affront to people. The devs just want to make a good game that's going to achieve critical and commercial success; they're not going to be burning effigies of the cut characters and saying that they never belonged in Smash to begin with. Perhaps some fans are saying that about certain characters, but that doesn't make it true even if said characters do end up getting cut.

We already know the intent of the developers for this iteration; Sakurai is on record saying that he really doesn't want to make cuts, but he's also on record saying that the roster size probably isn't gonna grow much this time around. If you take both of these statements as absolute, inviolable fact, then the conclusion is that we essentially get a very modest (4 or 5 newcomer) character pack tacked onto a game we already have plus a few moveset changes, balance tweaks and new stages. And if that's what you want then more power to you, but I don't think Brawl U is going to be met with overwhelming positivity. After the absolute wealth of variety we gained in regards to the roster going from 64 to Melee and then from Melee to Brawl, tacking a few newcomers onto the existing roster just seems crushingly underwhelming to me, and it's definitely not what I'm personally hoping for. I'm not trying to invalidate anyone's opinions or wants here, but maybe it's worth considering that cuts don't have to be a game-ruining thing. At the end of the day we'll all still have Brawl to enjoy, so perhaps it's worthwhile to be open-minded about all the good that could come from pruning the roster a bit.

 

[Groose]

I don't think Brawl U is going to be met with overwhelming positivity.

I KNOW Brawl U won't be met with overwhelming positivity.

 

[mimgrim]

We already discussed Star Fox, LOL. Let's discuss... hmmm... Classic characters.

Classic characters? I know exactly who I want;

Lip, Mach Rider, Takamaru, and Tamagon. 3 of the 4 are already in my roster, I plan on adding the 4th one in my next one. Cause retrooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

 

[SuperBrawler]

Takamaru all the way.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

Takamaru, Balloon Fighter, and Sheriff FTW.

 

[Zhadgon]

Someone from this list:​

Mach Rider
Takamaru
Prince of Sablé
Donbe and Hikari (tag team like Ice Climbers).
Hakkun
Mike Jones
Sheriff
Dino, Max and Jack (The mechanic like Pokemon Trainer or something complety new)
Harry
DeMille
Tin Star

.n_n.​

 

[Curious Villager]

I'd like to see either Lip or Balloon Fighter the most, but I'm also open to retro's like Takamaru, Muddy Mole and Sukapon though.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Honestly my list pretty much works. Or something close to that. I want to see more revivals, really, a lot of the producers or ever game designers of art and sciences are skilled enough to run a franchise from one of the many abandoned franchises by Nintendo.

 

[CalumG]

Excitebiker.

And yes, I'm dead serious.

 

[TheBakonBitz]

Can someone explain to me the obsession and demand for Takamaru being a playable character? Was it because he was in Nintendo Land? I think he fits better as an assist trophy.

 

[mimgrim]

The lack of Lip and Tamagon love is sad. :C

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Sukapon is a very logical choice I see Sakurai making. But, I think Sheriff makes more sense than Muddy Mole.

 

[Khoru]

i keep reading tamagon as tatanga

(psst by the way
if the knowledgeable people here could look at this and see if there's anything not considered to be a nintendo game/stuff that's missing, that'd be very nice
i'm doing this because of reasons)

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Sukapon is a very logical choice I see Sakurai making. But, I think Sheriff makes more sense than Muddy Mole.

not really

but i dont see him picking either muddy mole or sheriff

 

[Glaciacott]

Can someone explain to me the obsession and demand for Takamaru being a playable character? Was it because he was in Nintendo Land? I think he fits better as an assist trophy.

I always felt the NintendoLand argument as a reasonable implication that his series might be revived. And it's not farfetched it would entail presence in Smash too, since his game and Balloon Fighter are the only ones with attractions in Nintendo Land and no character representation in Smash. And in the case of the Balloon Fighter, it seems Villager will simply represent him through his recovery.

I also like the idea of all the 1986 Nintendo characters (Link, Takamaru, Samus and Pit) together in the same game. With that in mind there might be something to Sakurai's bringing that to our attention in the Developer's Direct by mentioning Pit, Samus and Link all were born in 1986.

There's a bunch of other arguments too, but I can't recall them right now as I am half-asleep.

 

[SuperBrawler]

not really

but i dont see him picking either muddy mole or sheriff

Me neither.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Me neither.

Thank yo- Hi Meowth.

 

[FlareHabanero]

If there was a massive cut spree could we handle it?

People would commit seppuku.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

People would commit seppuku.

Honestly if a massive cut spree happened it would be horrible, I know most of my favorite characters wouldn't get in, there'd probably be DLC, and more importantly: I'd laugh so hard.