Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[TheLastJinjo]

What about Genesect?

In the event that a newcomer Pokemon is necessary, he is the most logical choice as Zoroark is but a Lucario Wanna Be. I wouldn't be entirely surprised if Sakurai left out Jiggs in favor of Genesect, I really wouldn't. But, I also wouldn't be surprised if Mewtwo was all we got.

Well, Lucina has some shot, as does Ghirahim. But I think that's it.

I don't see how. She is literally girl Marth.

Maybe Medusa, her being a villain and all.

Don't know enough about Kid Icarus to be sure.

This is extremely accurate.

Her and Palutena are really the only choices that can happen. Although all we need is Pit, and Palutena may be the limit, Medusa makes a good Semi-Clone and completes the KI mains. I really would not be shocked at Medusa just because she is a dark clone of what may be one of the most well received reps.

Hey, it's something to do until the arguments start back up again.

Even though Wiggles is fun to mess with.

 

[Opossum]

So I got bored.
[collapse="Every remotely plausible newcomer for SSB4"]

Toad
Waluigi
Paper Mario
Bowser Jr.
Dr. Mario
King K. Rool
Dixie Kong
Kamek
Jimmy T.
Ashley
Impa
Tingle
Vaati
Toon Zelda/Tetra
Ghirahim
Ridley
Dark Samus
Chrom
Roy
Lucina
Waddle Dee
Krystal
Masked Man
Porky
Mewtwo
Zoroark
Meowth
Palutena
Medusa
Samurai Goroh
Black Shadow
Isaac
Little Mac
Starfy
Chibi-Robo
Andy
Shulk
Saki
Dillon
Pushmo
Karate Joe
Ray
Takamaru
Lip
Mach Rider
Pac-Man
Mii
[/collapse]
The list definitely feels over-inflated as it is. Is there anyone I'm leaving out? Anyone at all?

What I'd like to do is assemble a grand list of characters here and later see if we can narrow this thing down to a consensus group of characters.

Hmmm...well, the only thing I can suggest is maybe add Mach Rider and Muddy Mole to round off the retro choices.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

The cuts I see likely: Wolf, R.O.B., one of the Mother kids,.

I lol'd

 

[SuperBrawler]

Who do you think will become AT's guys?

 

[CalumG]

I lol'd

Well, all things considered, I think Wolf could definitely see removal - if we take Brawl's development at face value of course and assume Wolf was as low priority as we think he was (no role in Subspace, one of the last unlockables, low down in the character list in the actual game code). R.O.B. and Lucas however? Pretty much not happening.

 

[SuperBrawler]

Well, all things considered, I think Wolf could definitely see removal - if we take Brawl's development at face value of course and assume Wolf was as low priority as we think he was (no role in Subspace, one of the last unlockables, low down in the character list in the actual game code). R.O.B. and Lucas however? Pretty much not happening.

I seriously don't like it when people say Wolf will be cut, He's very important as the leader of Star Wolf.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I lol'd

Well maybe if you read, these are cuts I think would happen if cuts are a big thing. Who do you suggest be cut? NONE of these characters deserve to be cut, but if cuts are imminent than we can't be sure who's going to return.

Just because somebody thinks someone will get cut doesn't mean they want or agree with the idea.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Who do you think will become AT's guys?

The Groosinator definitely.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Okay, I think adding anyone else to the list at this rate is going to be in hopes rather than realism at this rate. Let's focus on what we have now, because at the very least I believe we have all the characters with the greatest chances and/or the most warrant for being included. Please don't ask to add anyone else unless you're absolutely sure they could at least hold a candle to someone like Little Mac or Ridley.

[collapse="Every remotely plausible newcomer for SSB4"]
Toad
Waluigi
Paper Mario
Bowser Jr.
Dr. Mario

King K. Rool
Dixie Kong

Kamek

Jimmy T.
Ashley

Impa
Tingle
Vaati
Toon Zelda/Tetra
Ghirahim

Ridley
Dark Samus

Chrom
Roy
Lucina

Waddle Dee

Krystal

Masked Man
Porky

Mewtwo
Zoroark
Meowth

Palutena
Medusa

Samurai Goroh
Black Shadow

Isaac
Little Mac
Starfy
Chibi-Robo
Andy
Shulk
Saki
Dillon
Pushmo
Karate Joe
Ray

Takamaru
Lip
Mach Rider
Muddy Mole

Pac-Man

Mii
[/collapse]
Let's start with the essentials. Who here stands out as an absolute necessity? Guys like Little Mac or Ridley that are almost unanimously accepted as characters we should have. Key word being unanimous, please.

 

[CalumG]

I seriously don't like it when people say Wolf will be cut, He's very important as the leader of Star Wolf.

I'm not saying he will - I'm just saying he's up there on the list of potential cuts from the Brawl roster. At the end of the day, someone is always going to be disappointed with a character cut, but something's gotta give. Characters will no doubt be cut, even if only 1 or 2, to make room for extra development time. That is the sad truth of the matter, but yeah... someone's going to get the shaft, and based on Brawl's game data, I simply see Toon Link, Wolf and Jiggly as being up there. Again, not saying they will be cut, but if you had to choose three characters to go, who would you choose?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I love how people just lol at every literally every character removal when cuts may be a likely occurrence. What do you suggest if cuts are made then?

 

[SuperBrawler]

Palutena, Little Mac, King K. Rool, Ridley, Mewtwo, I guess?

 

[MagnesD3]

Well, all things considered, I think Wolf could definitely see removal - if we take Brawl's development at face value of course and assume Wolf was as low priority as we think he was (no role in Subspace, one of the last unlockables, low down in the character list in the actual game code). R.O.B. and Lucas however? Pretty much not happening.

It would be incredibly stupid to cut the second most important sf character. Toon Link is literally the only character I see going to the chopping block.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Honestly, all I would remove from the trainer is the Stamina thing, OR, make Pokemon "invincible" upon switching until he's ready to act.

That... and a whole lotta buffing, especially to Ivysaur and Charizard.

When I choose PT, I'm not thinking "I just want to play as Squirtle", I select him because I want to play as all 3.
So I'm perfectly fine with that mechanic. Though I do wish they would do us the favor of allowing us to CHOOSE who'll be switched next. Even if it's just 3 seconds time limit, which is almost the ammount of time PT takes to switch pokemon.

 

[CalumG]

It would be incredibly stupid to cut the second most important sf character. Toon Link is literally the only character I see going to the chopping block.

Again, I ask; if you had to remove three characters, who would they be?

 

[Opossum]

Palutena, Little Mac, King K. Rool, Ridley, Mewtwo, I guess?

I agree with this. They seem to be the most unanimous.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Palutena, Little Mac, King K. Rool, Ridley, Mewtwo, I guess?

Okay, so that's a start.

Spoiler

Palutena
Little Mac
King K. Rool
Ridley
Mewtwo

Toad
Waluigi
Paper Mario
Bowser Jr.
Dr. Mario

Dixie Kong

Kamek

Jimmy T.
Ashley

Impa
Tingle
Vaati
Toon Zelda/Tetra
Ghirahim

Dark Samus

Chrom
Roy
Lucina

Waddle Dee

Krystal

Masked Man
Porky

Zoroark
Meowth

Medusa

Samurai Goroh
Black Shadow

Isaac

Starfy
Chibi-Robo
Andy
Shulk
Saki
Dillon
Pushmo
Karate Joe
Ray

Takamaru
Lip
Mach Rider
Muddy Mole

Pac-Man

Mii

So then the question is, do these necessities eliminate the chances of other characters? Could Dixie co-exist with King K. Rool? Could Dark Samus appear after Ridley? That kind of thing.

 

[MagnesD3]

Honestly, all I would remove from the trainer is the Stamina thing, OR, make Pokemon "invincible" upon switching until he's ready to act.

That... and a whole lotta buffing, especially to Ivysaur and Charizard.

When I choose PT, I'm not thinking "I just want to play as Squirtle", I select him because I want to play as all 3.
So I'm perfectly fine with that mechanic. Though I do wish they would do us the favor of allowing us to CHOOSE who'll be switched next. Even if it's just 3 seconds time limit, which is almost the ammount of time PT takes to switch pokemon.

Id keep the stamina thing but I would have resting pokemon that have battled, over time heal slightly (up to 30% health max,) but I dont know how long I should make the time. Everything is reset though after any of your pokemon is KO'D.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

In terms of cuts... I definitely see Ike, Wolf, PKMN Trainer, Ice Climbers, and either Ness/Lucas (pick and choose) getting the ax, considering they seem like transitional or replaceable characters.

That said, I can see Ike staying, if no new Fire Emblem newcomers show up (which is likely, considering Sakurai wants to benefit the entire Smashverse, and not just the Fire Emblem fanbase), that way we can keep Ike on the roster, along with Marth.

The only reason I chose the PKMN Trainer and the Ice Climbers is because they will ONLY get cut if the 3DS's severe technological limitations prevents them from being on the roster. Otherwise, I consider them a lock.

Wolf, and especially any of the Earthbound characters, just seem too likely to get cut because of their low priority, considering we need room for other characters.

 

[Silverjay323]

Again, I ask; if you had to remove three characters, who would they be?

Lucario, Ike, and Toon Link seem the most likely imo.

In terms of cuts... I definitely see Ike, Wolf, PKMN Trainer, Ice Climbers, and either Ness/Lucas (pick and choose) getting the ax, considering they seem like transitional or replaceable characters.

That said, I can see Ike staying, if no new Fire Emblem newcomers show up (which is likely, considering Sakurai wants to benefit the entire Smashverse, and not just the Fire Emblem fanbase), that way we can keep Ike on the roster, along with Marth.

The only reason I chose the PKMN Trainer and the Ice Climbers is because they will ONLY get cut if the 3DS's severe technological limitations prevents them from being on the roster. Otherwise, I consider them a lock.


Wolf, and especially any of the Earthbound characters, just seem too likely to get cut because of their low priority, considering we need room for other characters.

Replaceable? with whom? You can't really replace either. They'd be cut for the sake of being cut, and Mother characters were not low priority at all. Where's you get that idea?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

In terms of cuts... I definitely see Ike, Wolf, PKMN Trainer, Ice Climbers, and either Ness/Lucas (pick and choose) getting the ax, considering they seem like transitional or replaceable characters.

That said, I can see Ike staying, if no new Fire Emblem newcomers show up (which is likely, considering Sakurai wants to benefit the entire Smashverse, and not just the Fire Emblem fanbase), that way we can keep Ike on the roster, along with Marth.

The only reason I chose the PKMN Trainer and the Ice Climbers is because they will ONLY get cut if the 3DS's severe technological limitations prevents them from being on the roster. Otherwise, I consider them a lock.

Wolf, and especially any of the Earthbound characters, just seem too likely to get cut because of their low priority, considering we need room for other characters.

EarthBound has never been low priority. There's no source for that and I can't think of any newcoming franchises more important than Mother.

Lucario, Ike, and Toon Link seem the most likely imo.

 

[Opossum]

Okay, so that's a start.

Spoiler

Palutena
Little Mac
King K. Rool
Ridley
Mewtwo

Toad
Waluigi
Paper Mario
Bowser Jr.
Dr. Mario

Dixie Kong

Kamek

Jimmy T.
Ashley

Impa
Tingle
Vaati
Toon Zelda/Tetra
Ghirahim

Dark Samus

Chrom
Roy
Lucina

Waddle Dee

Krystal

Masked Man
Porky

Zoroark
Meowth

Medusa

Samurai Goroh
Black Shadow

Isaac

Starfy
Chibi-Robo
Andy
Shulk
Saki
Dillon
Pushmo
Karate Joe
Ray

Takamaru
Lip
Mach Rider
Muddy Mole

Pac-Man

Mii

So then the question is, do these necessities eliminate the chances of other characters? Could Dixie co-exist with King K. Rool? Could Dark Samus appear after Ridley? That kind of thing.

Honestly, with Palutena up there, I'd take out Medusa. I don't think KI will get three characters.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

Lucario, Ike, and Toon Link seem the most likely imo.

Replaceable? with whom? You can't really replace either. They'd be cut for the sake of being cut, and Mother characters were not low priority at all. Where's you get that idea?

With Lucario's popularity and recent Mega-Evolution, as well as endless Pokemon promotions, I can't see him cut.

 

[Silverjay323]

With Lucario's popularity and recent Mega-Evolution, as well as endless Pokemon promotions, I can't see him cut.

Not the part of the reply that was directed towards you, but whatever. Realize that this is my opinion. The Mega-Evolutions will probably do little to help Lucario in the long run.

 

[LaniusShrike]

Again, I ask; if you had to remove three characters, who would they be?

Any three? I guess I'd say-- Wait, no, this game sounds like an argument trap.

... so, I'ma put my answers and reasoning in spoiler tags.

Spoiler

Just kiddin'. Interested to see what other people say, though.

 

[CalumG]

In terms of cuts... I definitely see Ike, Wolf, PKMN Trainer, Ice Climbers, and either Ness/Lucas (pick and choose) getting the ax, considering they seem like transitional or replaceable characters.

That said, I can see Ike staying, if no new Fire Emblem newcomers show up (which is likely, considering Sakurai wants to benefit the entire Smashverse, and not just the Fire Emblem fanbase), that way we can keep Ike on the roster, along with Marth.

The only reason I chose the PKMN Trainer and the Ice Climbers is because they will ONLY get cut if the 3DS's severe technological limitations prevents them from being on the roster. Otherwise, I consider them a lock.

Wolf, and especially any of the Earthbound characters, just seem too likely to get cut because of their low priority, considering we need room for other characters.

You're kidding right? Pokemon Trainer isn't just a Pokemon Trainer - he's the Pokemon Trainer. Red is the Pokemon Trainer to have showed up in all five generations of Pokemon, and to this day is the strongest NPC in any Pokemon game. Charizard was one of the most requested Pokemon before Brawl. In Japan, one of Red's alt names is the name of the Pokemon creator himself. Red inspired the design of Ash, and the actions of Red in Pokemon Red/Blue/Green/Yellow went on to cause pretty much the entire plot of Gold and Silver. Why would they remove Pokemon Trainer?

And if you say they should replace him with a more 'up-to-date' Pokemon Trainer with Unova/6th Gen starters then we're done here. -.-

 

[TheDivineDeity]

EarthBound has never been low priority. There's no source for that and I can't think of any newcoming franchises more important than Mother.

Veteran Franchises: Donkey Kong (King K Rool, Dixie Kong), Metroid (Ridley, maybe Dark Samus), Pokemon (Mewtwo), Zelda (Impa), Mario (Toad)

Newcomer Franchises: Xenoblade (Shulk), Tales (Lloyd), Pacman (Pacman), Punch-Out (Little Mac, King Hippo), Retros (Takamaru, Sheriff, etc.)

AKA all much more important than Mother, in terms of requests, popularity, and importance to Nintendo history. Plus, they all fulfill the criteria of the A+B+C+D/Sakurai=PRC equation. That's how you prioritize newcoming characters into the Smashverse. I don't deny Ness and/or Lucas' popularity, but even you admit one of them may get cut (probably Lucas, anyways). So there's that.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Neither Ness or Lucas were low priority. I doubt they would be now.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

You're kidding right? Pokemon Trainer isn't just a Pokemon Trainer - he's the Pokemon Trainer. Red is the Pokemon Trainer to have showed up in all five generations of Pokemon, and to this day is the strongest NPC in any Pokemon game. Charizard was one of the most requested Pokemon before Brawl. In Japan, one of Red's alt names is the name of the Pokemon creator himself. Red inspired the design of Ash, and the actions of Red in Pokemon Red/Blue/Green/Yellow went on to cause pretty much the entire plot of Gold and Silver. Why would they remove Pokemon Trainer?

And if you say they should replace him with a more 'up-to-date' Pokemon Trainer with Unova/6th Gen starters then we're done here. -.-

You clearly didn't read. I said PKMN Trainer would get cut ONLY if the severe technical limitations of the 3DS force his removal. Don't blame me, blame the 3DS. Even then, I consider him mainly a lock, unless the 3DS is a *****.

 

[Opossum]

Veteran Franchises: Donkey Kong (King K Rool, Dixie Kong), Metroid (Ridley, maybe Dark Samus), Pokemon (Mewtwo), Zelda (Impa), Mario (Toad)

Newcomer Franchises: Xenoblade (Shulk), Tales (Lloyd), Pacman (Pacman), Punch-Out (Little Mac, King Hippo), Retros (Takamaru, Sheriff, etc.)

AKA all much more important than Mother, in terms of requests, popularity, and importance to Nintendo history. Plus, they all fulfill the criteria of the A+B+C+D/Sakurai=PRC equation. That's how you prioritize newcoming characters into the Smashverse. I don't deny Ness and/or Lucas' popularity, but even you admit one of them may get cut (probably Lucas, anyways). So there's that.

Lloyd is by no means more important or requested as Ness or Lucas.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

Lloyd is by no means more important or requested as Ness or Lucas.

Source? Oh wait, I forgot I can't ask that... Seriously, how many other newcoming 3rd party characters are more requested than Lloyd... other than Pacman? You'd think they'd have higher priority being highly requested newcomers. I'm not saying Ness and Lucas are unpopular, but again, I definitely see one of them getting cut, almost certainly, in fact.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Who do you think will become AT's guys?

Kamek. I'm gonna presume Yoshi's alone for a fourth installment(it's a safe bet), so I at least want an assist trophy repping the series this time.

For DK; if we only get one DK rep(King K. Rool or Dixie), I hope the assist is whichever doesn't make the playable grade.

For Mario: Again; whoever doesn't make the grade as playable from the Toad/Bowser Jr/Paper Mario/Waluigi list.
Although my money would be on Waluigi returning(he was one of my favourite ATs) and we'd have to see if more than one important character makes it as an AT per series this time around.
Honestly though I sort of want Wart to come in as an AT. Guy gets no love.
Or maybe Koopaling. It'd pick one of the Koopalings and be random like a Pokeball.

King Hippo would be a good powerful AT with good OHKO potential I'm sure. An essential if Little Mac makes the jump from AT to Rep as everyone presumes he will.

For Metroid; maybe Anthony Higgins? I wasn't that up on Other M, but after reading his support thread he seems like a possible choice for AT.

I'd prefer Wario to get Captain Syrup as his series AT, but since we're focusing on WarioWare regarding him, maybe Jimmy T or Mona this time, since Kat and Ana already had a turn.

ATs are hard to predict though, if not near damn impossible.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

Neither Ness or Lucas were low priority. I doubt they would be now.

When Ness was considered getting cut in place of Lucas, Sakurai practically dismantled the entire "Ness has high priority" argument into the garbage bin. He's popular, sure, but when you have a character that ALMOST got cut once before... it could happen for real this time.

 

[CalumG]

Plus, they all fulfill the criteria of the A+B+C+D/Sakurai=PRC equation. That's how you prioritize newcoming characters into the Smashverse

Oh, boy, it's that time of day again. Be right back, I'll go get my tin-foil hat.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Newcomer Franchises: Xenoblade (Shulk), Tales (Lloyd), Pacman (Pacman), Punch-Out (Little Mac, King Hippo), Retros (Takamaru, Sheriff, etc.) Are all more important than representing EarthBound.

To think a Namco game is more prioritized than one of Nintendo's most beloved, important, and remembered franchises available.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Seriously, how many other newcoming 3rd party characters are more requested than Lloyd... other than Pacman?

Rayman, Bomberman, Sora, Travis Touchdown, Geno, Professor Layton and maybe Phoenix Wright from what I've seen all either get asked around the same level as Lloyd or slightly higher in the case of Sora, Bomberman, Geno and Layton.

Tbf; Goku's asked for a lot by people. I wouldn't put much stock in people's requests for third parties(isn't Goku 4th party?).

 

[TheDivineDeity]

Rayman, Bomberman, Sora, Travis Touchdown, Geno, Professor Layton and maybe Phoenix Wright from what I've seen all either get asked around the same level as Lloyd or slightly higher in the case of Sora, Bomberman and Layton.

Tbf; Goku's asked for a lot by people. I wouldn't put much stock in people's requests for third parties(isn't Goku 4th party?).

Then why did you bring up Goku as a 3rd party if you say he could also be 4th party?

To think a Namco game is more prioritized than one of Nintendo's most beloved, important, and remembered franchises available.

It doesn't even come close to answering my question.

 

[Opossum]

Source? Oh wait, I forgot I can't ask that... Seriously, how many other newcoming 3rd party characters are more requested than Lloyd... other than Pacman? You'd think they'd have higher priority being highly requested newcomers. I'm not saying Ness and Lucas are unpopular, but again, I definitely see one of them getting cut, almost certainly, in fact.

Well, for one, the slot for "Tales character (Lloyd/Cress)" only scored about 239 votes on Shortie's poll, putting Lloyd behind many third parties, including Bayonetta, Phoenix Wright, Bomberman, a second Sonic character, Pac-Man, Banjo and Kazooie (though they're technically ineligible), as well as Mega Man when he was on the poll. So that alone shows that Lloyd has really little demand, considering that poll went to about twenty different websites.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

It doesn't even come close to answering my question.

What question? You made a statement. Questions usually end in a question mark and ask something.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Source? Oh wait, I forgot I can't ask that... Seriously, how many other newcoming 3rd party characters are more requested than Lloyd... other than Pacman? You'd think they'd have higher priority being highly requested newcomers. I'm not saying Ness and Lucas are unpopular, but again, I definitely see one of them getting cut, almost certainly, in fact.

I really wish I could understand this complete grudge you have for Mother. You don't seem to know a thing about the series, yet you claim it's one of the least important if not the least importance franchise Nintendo has.

I'd still like to know why you believe that when Ness was one of the Original 12. Earthbound, one of the most veteran series in Smash Bros., is not important...? Alrighty then...