Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[Silverjay323]

Yeah pretty sure mewtwo is going to be in his regular form but I dont see how this advertisment and relevance doesent help Lucario's chances...

This does improve his relevance, but not his chances unless we're getting 5 veterans to rep pokemon this time aroung. This new development still doesn't make him any more important or iconic as the other 4, and he's still the most likely pokemon to get the boot in favor of a new rep imo.

Or don't. Please, don't.

Kudos on the 500 posts down the crapper, btw.

All the negativity

 

[MattX20]

YAAAAAY, 500 pages. Anyways, I see we have different opinions on Mario newcomers. So, which one of these three do you want to see the most
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Paper Mario would be fairly unique.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Exactly. It was more so your previous trollish behavior and the entire "I'm right, your wrong" mentality which just rubbed me the wrong way. That is what I held and, in some cases, still hold against you. However, I actually find myself agreeing with some of your posts. You have improved the quality of your posts, as a debater, and as a member of these forums.

As for a 5th Mario character, I am on the fence on it. I would say its a 50/50 chance we might get one. However, if we do, I am pretty open to it being: Bowser Jr., King Boo, Toad,, Rosalina, Paper Mario, or Waluigi.

I don't recall any "I'm right your wrong" mentalities. However if Mario gets a 5th rep I mostly see Paper Mario due to him being requested from the start and that Toad will get in before Bowser Jr. I don't have very high hopes for Jr anymore.

Im certain we will get bowser jr. in this game, he is way to recurring now.

I don't know. Toad & Paper Mario seem to have better move potential, Toad is more recurring, and althoug Bowser Jr has become a main character, we already have a Koopa, and I know Bowser Jr could have his own moves, but they'd still be rather similar to Bowser.

500 pages? Keep it up people, you guys might just beat the original Wii U thread, just 2471 more pages to go. Do it within the next 7 months and you'll beat our record for beating a dead horse and off-topic nonsense.


I'm still in the high bar theory side of things when it comes to Mario and Zelda. Honestly I'd say we're perfectly represented as it is, we only got Dr. Mario by accident anyway.

I notice what we think SHOULD happen can interfere with everyone's predictions. And usually it seems the most likely because it's what SHOULD happen. But, getting a 5th Mario rep is 50/50. Mario has all the reps it NEEDS, and so does Pokemon, but we could still very well get newcomers for other reasons even if it seems unnecessary. It all comes down to Sakurai's own opinion and thus getting a newcomer for Mario & Pokemon is 50/50

 

[N3ON]

I meant to imply that a character who is certain to make it in and also has existed since before brawl would at least have a larger presence in the last game.

Again, the same could be said about K. Rool, no? His chances are thought to be even better than Bowser Jr's, yet he's never played a role larger than being a trophy in Smash. And Diddy didn't even have an appearance in Melee (though that could've been due to legal issues at the time). All I'm saying is that the extent of previous appearances in Smash aren't the be-all-and-end-all for future chances. Jr still has a fair shot imo (though obviously so do other Mario characters).

Or don't. Please, don't.

Kudos on the 500 posts down the crapper, btw.

That's the spirit.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

This does improve his relevance, but not his chances unless we're getting 5 veterans to rep pokemon this time aroung. This new development still doesn't make him any more important or iconic as the other 4, and he's still the most likely pokemon to get the boot in favor of a new rep imo.

Maybe....

 

[Swamp Sensei]

YAAAAAY, 500 pages. Anyways, I see we have different opinions on Mario newcomers. So, which one of these three do you want to see the most
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If I had a choice? Jr.

Though I'd be happy with any of those.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Again, the same could be said about K. Rool, no? His chances are thought to be even better than Bowser Jr's, yet he's never played a role larger than being a trophy in Smash. And Diddy didn't even have an appearance in Melee (though that could've been due to legal issues at the time). All I'm saying is that the extent of previous appearances in Smash aren't the be-all-and-end-all for future chances. Jr still has a fair shot imo (though obviously so do other Mario characters).

Again, certain is a very strong word. I wouldn't say any newcomer who hasn't been announced is certain.

 

[CalumG]

People say Mario has a 'complete set' of reps... is it just me who thinks Toad would complete that set? He's the only other main character from the original SMB not included. For that matter, he's the only NSMB playable character who isn't playable in Smash, as well as the only SMB2/Mario 3D World character yet to get a major Smash role. Argue all you like about the Mario series as a whole, but if we narrowed Mario down to games made purely by Nintendo EAD (just for the sake of hypothesis)... he's the fifth character that really should be playable already, and the only remaining cast character that the main Mario team (EAD) treats with any amount of respect or has made playable.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

People say Mario has a 'complete set' of reps... is it just me who thinks Toad would complete that set? He's the only other main character from the original SMB not included. For that matter, he's the only NSMB playable character who isn't playable in Smash, as well as the only SMB2/Mario 3D World character yet to get a major Smash role. Argue all you like about the Mario series as a whole, but if we narrowed Mario down to games made purely by Nintendo EAD (just for the sake of hypothesis)... he's the fifth character that really should be playable already, and the only remaining cast character that the main Mario team (EAD) treats with any amount of respect or has made playable.

I dunno.

We can't forget about Nabbit.

 

[Silverjay323]

Maybe....

LOL Oh....You were serious?

 

[Gingerbread Man]

People say Mario has a 'complete set' of reps... is it just me who thinks Toad would complete that set? He's the only other main character from the original SMB not included. For that matter, he's the only NSMB playable character who isn't playable in Smash, as well as the only SMB2/Mario 3D World character yet to get a major Smash role. Argue all you like about the Mario series as a whole, but if we narrowed Mario down to games made purely by Nintendo EAD (just for the sake of hypothesis)... he's the fifth character that really should be playable already, and the only remaining cast character that the main Mario team (EAD) treats with any amount of respect or has made playable.

I'll agree that does make sense but if we consider that Paper Mario has a series of his own under his belt, he might get in before toad.
At the vary least I'm expecting a paper mario level. Maybe something from sticketstar.

 

[N3ON]

Again, certain is a very strong word. I wouldn't say any newcomer who hasn't been announced is certain.

That much is true.

People say Mario has a 'complete set' of reps... is it just me who thinks Toad would complete that set? He's the only other main character from the original SMB not included. For that matter, he's the only NSMB playable character who isn't playable in Smash, as well as the only SMB2/Mario 3D World character yet to get a major Smash role. Argue all you like about the Mario series as a whole, but if we narrowed Mario down to games made purely by Nintendo EAD (just for the sake of hypothesis)... he's the fifth character that really should be playable already, and the only remaining cast character that the main Mario team (EAD) treats with any amount of respect or has made playable.

I think the four we have now do a fine job of making up the "core" essential Mario characters, but Toad would probably be the best addition (from a series importance standpoint) before we slip into the B-List Mario characters. He is the only remaining unplayable character from the Big 8 after all...

 

[kikaru]

YAAAAAY, 500 pages. Anyways, I see we have different opinions on Mario newcomers. So, which one of these three do you want to see the most
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500 pages and this thread hasn't been closed? That's something worth celebrating!

Anyways that's honestly a pretty tough decision for me, on one hand I would love to beat the daylights out of Toad for all the trouble and taunting he has caused me in the Mario Party and Mario Kart series, on the other hand Paper Mario are equal in my eyes as characters I wouldn't mind playing.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

YAAAAAY, 500 pages. Anyways, I see we have different opinions on Mario newcomers. So, which one of these three do you want to see the most
View attachment 2079

Bowser Jr. Had to say it again.

Im certain we will get bowser jr. in this game, he is way to recurring now.

As recurring as he is, he wouldn't get in if he didn't also have high potential for a unique moveset, which he does, so that helps. Also, it'd be nice to have a second villain rep in a franchise for once.

Yeah pretty sure mewtwo is going to be in his regular form but I dont see how this advertisment and relevance doesent help Lucario's chances...

I'm pretty there was more want for Mewtwo in Brawl than Lucario.

Plus, Mewtwo was the first revealed to have a new form. I think it would be kind of shameful if they got everyone revved up for it's new form and got their hopes up for Mewtwo in the next Smash, only for Lucario to get his new form and in the end, Lucario would still appear in Sm4sh instead.

I suspect Mewtwo is more likely to get in, but I don't completely doubt Lucario's return either, but Mewtwo would probably be higher priority. Plus, with Jigglypuff being a fairy type and full time veteran, we may very well see Lucario leave.

I think if we get a 5th Mario rep though, we might get every past Pokemon rep. (other than Pichu of course) after all, the only exception to Pokemon having more reps than Mario was with Pokemon Trainer in Brawl.

 

[Hotfeet444]

All I'm saying is that the extent of previous appearances in Smash aren't the be-all-and-end-all for future chances.

Tell that to the people who think that Ridley being a boss staples that as his appearance in the Smash Bros series.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Also, whoever thought of a Nintendo Direct that will encompass 2014 releases is a genius.

Yay for people thinking I'm a genius.

 

[CalumG]

Toad and Paper Mario could both offer unique attributes, in my eyes.

Toad, for example, could be the only character of his weight class with such a poor jump ability, as well as having DK-like strength and the ability to carry people - certainly a unique addition. Similarly, Paper Mario could have an assortment of Paper-based moves (as opposed to Game and Watch who doesn't make full use of the advantages flat-ness brings him) and be the only character in the game to inflict damage through Toadstool jumps.

They both have their positives gameplay-wise... I just have trouble choosing from a representation standpoint.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Toad and Paper Mario could both offer unique attributes, in my eyes.

Toad, for example, could be the only character of his weight class with such a poor jump ability, as well as having DK-like strength and the ability to carry people - certainly a unique addition. Similarly, Paper Mario could have an assortment of Paper-based moves (as opposed to Game and Watch who doesn't make full use of the advantages flat-ness brings him) and be the only character in the game to inflict damage through Toadstool jumps.

They both have their positives gameplay-wise... I just have trouble choosing from a representation standpoint.

I see how they could bring uniqueness into Smash as well, but I prefer Bowser Jr. nevertheless. All 3 have high potential for a unique moveset.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

LOL Oh....You were serious?

What is so funny about Lucario getting in over Jigglypuff? Oh, yeah she's one of the original 12 so let's just ignore that Lucario is much more popular and promoted Pokemon.

Veterans shouldn't get a free pass for being veterans, ESPECIALLY not if they are a Pokemon.

 

[Hotfeet444]

I see how they could bring uniqueness into Smash as well, but I prefer Bowser Jr. nevertheless. All 3 have high potential for a unique moveset.

I just have a question...as a Bowser Jr. supporter, what's your opinion on him using some of the Koopaling's weapons, namely Roy's Bullet Blaster and Morton's Hammer, as weapons to represent his role as leader of the Koopalings?

 

[Silverjay323]

What is so funny about Lucario getting in over Jigglypuff? Oh, yeah she's one of the original 12 so let's just ignore that Lucario is much more popular and promoted Pokemon.

Promoted yes. But to proclaim Lucario has surpassed the popularity Jigglypuff once had is false. Sure its not "hot", but more people can recognize Jigglypuff than Lucario, and its a much more iconic pokemon in general. Its not really funny at all. The way people think Jigglypuff has somehow fallen off the face of the earth is.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

What is so funny about Lucario getting in over Jigglypuff? Oh, yeah she's one of the original 12 so let's just ignore that Lucario is much more popular and promoted Pokemon.

She's also a fairy type now. And even though Lucario is more popular and promoted, Jiggs is still a member of the original 12, and managed to get into the next two games, despite being sort of a joke character in the first game, and theres still a good amount of love for the puff, and unless the joke character from the first game was anything like Pichu, there should be no reason why any character from the very first game should be cut.

She got in Melee and Brawl too, why should she be removed NOW?

 

[CalumG]

She's also a fairy type now. And even though Lucario is more popular and promoted, Jiggs is still a member of the original 12, and managed to get into the next two games, despite being sort of a joke character in the first game, and theres still a good amount of love for the puff, and unless the joke character from the first game was anything like Pichu, there should be no reason why any character from the very first game should be cut.

I'm not gonna dispute the rest of your post... but people really need to stop talking about the Fairy-type like it means anything for any Pokemon's chances.

 

[N3ON]

Tell that to the people who think that Ridley being a boss staples that as his appearance in the Smash Bros series.

Gladly, though those type of people tend to be impervious to logic.

 

[Silverjay323]

I'm not gonna dispute the rest of your post... but people really need to stop talking about the Fairy-type like it means anything for any Pokemon's chances.

Can we assume the Mega Evolutions don't as well? Keep in mind, Fairy was a much greater announcement than this.

 

[CalumG]

Also, in reference to Jigglypuff, I'll quote something I posted a few days back:

Well, I'd personally suggest that Jigglypuff got into Brawl due to being an incredibly easy character to code and add in. Sakurai and the team typically recreate characters from the ground up in Smash, even when he's working on veterans (or so interviews with him would suggest), but Jigglypuff feels like one of the only characters that was pretty much lifted straight from the previous game, same animations and all. Heck, even her Final Smash looked like a cheap job - they just used an existing animation and made her model grow in size.

Of course, the fact that Jigglypuff is so easy to implement could well mean she'll be back... but I wouldn't be so quick to jump to the conclusion that her returning status in Brawl was due to how much of a 'staple' she is.

So yeah. Consider that Jigglypuff returned in Brawl due to her position as an easy addition rather than a worthwhile addition. Granted, such a thing means Jiggles could easily return yet again, but people should think about what they're saying before they argue that Jigglypuff is important.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I'm not gonna dispute the rest of your post... but people really need to stop talking about the Fairy-type like it means anything for any Pokemon's chances.

Well, it does mean she could have some potential new moves, which in turn could increase her chances. If we found out the Jiggs got some new fairy type moves, (which would be much more interesting than her original moveset) who wouldn't want to at least try this new Jigglypuff out?

I just have a question...as a Bowser Jr. supporter, what's your opinion on him using some of the Koopaling's weapons, namely Roy's Bullet Blaster and Morton's Hammer, as weapons to represent his role as leader of the Koopalings?

Perhaps, but I would rather he made more use of his Paintbrush and weapons. I like the sound of Jr. using a Bullet Bill Blaster for his D-Special, and maybe he could use a few other weapons of the Koopalings for certain attacks, but only one move for each weapon. I'd rather he mostly use his Paintbrush (which he doesn't use enough).

 

[Arcanir]

Can we assume the Mega Evolutions don't as well? Keep in mind, Fairy was a much greater announcement than this.

Not really, with Jigglypuff all she got was a picture saying "Oh yeah, this old Pokemon's a Fairy too!" Sylveon had much more clout in terms of how the advertising treated her, Mewtwo also is in the same boat as he's been marketed a lot since before this reveal.

Really, I think if Jigglypuff sticks around, it won't be because she's suddenly a Fairy.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Jigglypuff the dragon slayer!

I'm not very knowledgeable in this subject but given that she wasn't included in the main story of Sub Space Emisakrhaljdknfklda, doesn't that put her among the "we'll see if we have enough time to include them" characters. If being in the origianl 12 meant anything, I think she would have had a higher priority.
Dropping jigglypuff for Mewtwo isn't completely unreasonable.

 

[zauberdragon]

I just have a question...as a Bowser Jr. supporter, what's your opinion on him using some of the Koopaling's weapons, namely Roy's Bullet Blaster and Morton's Hammer, as weapons to represent his role as leader of the Koopalings?

As another Bowser Jr supporter I'd rather him use weapons from games he appeared in, such as the Sunshine paintbrush and perhaps bombs and bullet bills representing his role in galaxy. I see him more as a quick trickster, utilising explosives and paint as traps.

Having said that you raise a point I hadn't considered. I wouldn't mind if he used one or two of their items as a nod to the koopalings but I wouldn't want him as a representative of them, I'd say his games provide more than enough for a moveset.

 

[BluePikmin11]

It's been years since there was an extra type, I think this it's bigger than Mega-Evolutions TBH.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I still don't think veteran status will give Jiggs a free pass over Lucario contrary to popular belief. It's silly that people just ignore Lucario's popularity ENTIRELY just because Jiggs got in 3 times.

 

[Silverjay323]

Also, in reference to Jigglypuff, I'll quote something I posted a few days back:



So yeah. Consider that Jigglypuff returned in Brawl due to her position as an easy addition rather than a worthwhile addition. Granted, such a thing means Jiggles could easily return yet again, but people should think about what they're saying before they argue that Jigglypuff is important.

What makes you think it isn't? Or less important than Lucario for that matter?

Not really, with Jigglypuff all she got was a picture saying "Oh yeah, this old Pokemon's a Fairy too!" Sylveon had much more clout in terms of how the advertising treated her, Mewtwo also is in the same boat as he's been marketed a lot since before this reveal.

Really, I think if Jigglypuff sticks around, it won't be because she's suddenly a Fairy.

Lucario wasn't exactly the "main" mega evolution to be advertised either. My point was the sudden new changes probably won't effect a game that's already a ways into development. That's stuff to consider during earlier points in the process. We're well past character consideration.

I still don't think veteran status will give Jiggs a free pass over Lucario contrary to popular belief. It's silly that people just ignore Lucario's popularity ENTIRELY just because Jiggs got in 3 times.

It's not free since Jigglypuff deserves to back.

 

[CalumG]

What makes you think it isn't? Or less important than Lucario for that matter?

I'm not arguing whether Jigglypuff is important or not - I'm just stating that 'but she's Fairy-type now' and 'but she's been in all three Smash games so far' aren't valid arguments. I couldn't care either way if Jigglypuff returns or not, but these two arguments for her re-inclusion are null and void.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

She still has her love and fans.

I think Jigglypuff's chances of being cut would be much higher if she was anything like Pichu in Melee, Jigglypuff still has a lot of support compared to Pichu.

I still think Lucario is more likely to be cut, if we were gonna have any Pokemon characters cut.

 

[zauberdragon]

While Lucario might be more popular now, for someone like myself who started school in the mid to late 90s Jigglypuff will always be more popular, back when generation one ruled the playground. I'm not sure how much Sakurai really considers things like this and I'm no genwunner but personally Jigglypuff is more important than Lucario.

The fact that this probably now makes me a minority makes me feel old and sad.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

What makes you think it isn't? Or less important than Lucario for that matter?

Lucario wasn't exactly the "main" mega evolution to be advertised either. My point was the sudden new changes probably won't effect a game that's already a ways into development. That's stuff to consider during earlier points in the process. We're well past character consideration.

It's not free since Jigglypuff deserves to back.

If it's over Lucario than it could be considered a free pass this time around.

 

[Arcanir]

Lucario wasn't exactly the "main" mega evolution to be advertised either. My point was the sudden new changes probably won't effect a game that's already a ways into development. That's stuff to consider during earlier points in the process. We're well past character consideration.

It's not free since Jigglypuff deserves to back.

Lucario was much more prevalent in his revelation then Jigglypuff was (a video clip vs. a picture, one's bound to leave a much stronger impression) though admittedly I'm not putting too much stock in either other then that both have a stronger chance then most Pokemon candidates. Regardless, Sakurai could or could not have had access to this information already so who knows if he's using it or not.

Jigglypuff was low priority before, it's not unreasonable to think that she could be again. I'm not saying that she will get cut nor that she deserves to but I do think some overrate her staying power sometimes.

 

[Gune]

I dont know about you guys but I think the fact that every pokemon rep we have including mewtwo is gen 6 advertisement im expecting all 5 of them to be in with or without the mario franchise having 5 (slots) reps.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I'm not arguing whether Jigglypuff is important or not - I'm just stating that 'but she's Fairy-type now' and 'but she's been in all three Smash games so far' aren't valid arguments. I couldn't care either way if Jigglypuff returns or not, but these two arguments for her re-inclusion are null and void.