Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[Curious Villager]

I'm not even sure about this whole "overrepping" business anyway. I mean you have some people who complain that the likes of Pikmin and Mother don't deserve two characters because they only have three games but then turn around and say that Kid Icarus totally deserves another rep despite also having only three games. (Nothing against Palutena though, I support her as much as the next guy but still)

Oh well in the end, whatever is considered "overreped" or not is all a matter of opinion anyway I guess... I don't mind Starfox having three characters really... >_>

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Great post Shrooby. To add; I'll post a quote I found from Probable Character Roster (That I will update sometime I'm just a very busy man ): )
"-The Overpopulation Rule/Completed Series Rule: This is both a pro and a con. I would like to thank ToiseOfChoice for this one from the first Smash 4 thread. (He can explain this far better than I ever can) While some characters would be able to complete their series, they also may not be included due to bringing the roster up from other series. Also, lesser series are possible to not have more characters than a bigger series."

For what I think it is, I think it comes down to a specific on each series and we've got to the point where it does. Yes, StarFox can have four characters easily, but does that really mean everyone else can? What does Sakurai, along with the other producers, consider complete? Do they technically have a limit on franchises, and if so, which ones?

There's too much floating around just based off of pure cold hard facts that we know to come down to any conclusion. I can't imagine once you throw in other factors, such as many interviews that we don't know, talks with people after leases have been up, files, and so on.

 

[shinhed-echi]

My preferred Mewtwo Final Smash would be that he hurls a Shadow Pokeball at the opponent, then goes to the background of the stage controlling him psychic-ly

Similar to this, yeah. (Sorry for the pic quality, it was either that, or a 5 minute video)

And the PLAYER controls the cloned character. However there's something different about this clone...
It has HP instead of Damage %, meaning, it's very hard to knock him out of the stage, you'll have to defeat him by depleting his HP.

And one more thing... Mewtwo doesn't take damage this way, so it's kind of like having an extra stock, if the player is good at ditto matches.

I'm not even sure about this whole "overrepping" business anyway. I mean you have some people who complain that the likes of Pikmin and Mother don't deserve two characters because they only have three games but then turn around and say that Kid Icarus totally deserves another rep despite also having only three games. (Nothing against Palutena though, I support her as much as the next guy but still)


Oh well in the end, whatever is considered "overreped" or not is all a matter of opinion anyway I guess... I don't mind Starfox having three characters really... >_>

This is how I feel when people include Palutena but King Hippo totally can't be a 2nd Punch Out rep, despite Punch Out having 5-6 games, and KI only having 3.

BUT I don't cause a ruckus over this. It's perfectly understandable since Palutena could play around with a LOT more moves, and King Hippo might just be a super-heavy Little Mac clone with a few extra moves added.

And I love the divine Green-hairness of Palutena, so I can't complain about her inclusion. :3

But yeah, facts are facts. Punch Out still has more games than KI. Little Mac should have been around since SSB 64!

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Speaking of over reping, Imma post my new roter again, I have Medusa for filler because I can't think of anyone else.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I think 4 Starfox characters is overrepresenting the franchise, it's like saying Zelda is as popular as Starfox.

 

[CalumG]

The only "rule" of sorts that can really be observed for franchise numbers is that the "big Three" (Mario, Zelda, Pokemon) are the only ones to have gotten more than three characters in any given Smash title, and that similarly, the Mario series generally has the most reps (although often drawing with Pokemon, who had 2 in Smash 64 and four 'roster slots' in Brawl just like the Mario series did in both games).

Of course, whether this even means anything going forward is completely up in the air, but apart from that observation, it has generally been pretty much anything goes in terms of numbers of characters.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Speaking of over reping, Imma post my new roter again, I have Medusa for filler because I can't think of anyone else.
View attachment 2017

if you replace gensect with any other pokemon, remove medusa, and remove Bomebrman for a namco rep and... wow that's really all I have to say about a noah roster for once?

This feels like so much has happened since I took a break from this thread. 9/1-

 

[Gune]

Almlost every Pokemon has it, I wouldn't declare any Pokemon more relevant for having a Mega Form and for all we know Genesect may have one. We may not even get these forms.

6 pokeom out of over 600 thats not almost everyone...

 

[TheLastJinjo]

if you replace gensect with any other pokemon, remove medusa, and remove Bomebrman for a namco rep and... wow that's really all I have to say about a noah roster for once?

This feels like so much has happened since I took a break from this thread. 9/1-

Genesect is the best newcomer because Zoroark is just a Lucario wanna be, You don't HAVE to have a Namco rep and Bomberman is likely.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Genesect is the best newcomer because Zoroark is just a Lucario wanna be, You don't HAVE to have a Namco rep and Bomberman is likely.

Why not Jigglypuff or Eevee?

 

[3Bismyname]

For what I think it is, I think it comes down to a specific on each series and we've got to the point where it does. Yes, StarFox can have four characters easily, but does that really mean everyone else can? What does Sakurai, along with the other producers, consider complete? Do they technically have a limit on franchises, and if so, which ones?

There's too much floating around just based off of pure cold hard facts that we know to come down to any conclusion. I can't imagine once you throw in other factors, such as many interviews that we don't know, talks with people after leases have been up, files, and so on.

the bolded is the part that really sticks out to me. some series like say Kirby are complete with just Kirby, Meta Knight and DDD. another character like say Waddle Dee or maybe Prince Fluff would be nice, but overall the series most important characters are present and thus i personally would see the series as complete. likewise i feel the same way with series like Zelda and Mario (though Mario could possibly add Bowser Jr but overall is not necessary in the slightest). while other series have the room to grow regardless of how "small" the series may be by comparison to these other big series.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Why not Jigglypuff or Eevee?

JigglyPuff isn't a newcomer, but I had Eevee recently.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Genesect is the best newcomer because Zoroark is just a Lucario wanna be, You don't HAVE to have a Namco rep and Bomberman is likely.

Jigglypuff is better; Bomberman isn't likely.

the bolded is the part that really sticks out to me. some series like say Kirby are complete with just Kirby, Meta Knight and DDD. another character like say Waddle Dee or maybe Prince Fluff would be nice, but overall the series most important characters are present and thus i personally would see the series as complete. likewise i feel the same way with series like Zelda and Mario (though Mario could possibly add Bowser Jr but overall is not necessary in the slightest). while other series have the room to grow regardless of how "small" the series may be by comparison to these other big series.

Kirby doesn't really need another character, but if we're to have one, I honestly want Daroach. No joke. That's my closet support character.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I think Mario and Zelda are complete entirely, but now I kinda see the point of having 5 Pokemon reps.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Jigglypuff is better; Bomberman isn't likely.

Bomberman is actually very likely and I think Pokemon should have a newcomer.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I think Mario and Zelda are complete entirely, but now I kinda see the point of having 5 Pokemon reps.

To be frank, while Paper Mario would be nice and Bowser Jr is plausible, I feel the same way about both Mario and Zelda. I mean Pokemon's fine since Pokemon has a bloody 600 characters and counting, but Mario and Zelda have all their mains.

Also I wonder if we're even going to get many supporting characters. The more I think about it, the more I feel the supporting characters for each franchise comes at a disadvantage that the producers may see whether or not we choose to see them.

Bomberman is actually very likely and I think Pokemon should have a newcomer.

What pot are you smoking and where can I get some?

 

[CalumG]

I don't know if I'd consider Mario to be complete yet. Adding Toad, on the other hand, would mean all five characters from SMB1 are present in playable form, as well as completing the list of playables from SMB2/SM3DWorld and the Toad's accompanying in the NSMB games. I'd consider Zelda, Kirby and a few other franchises to be 'complete' from a representation point but in terms of historical significance, there's a set of 5 Mario character designs that have been there since SMB onwards, and Toad is the only one of those not playable yet.

 

[BluePikmin11]

We need evidence that Bomberman is mentioned by Sakurai, in order for him to be likely

 

[shinhed-echi]

Speaking of over reping, Imma post my new roter again, I have Medusa for filler because I can't think of anyone else.
View attachment 2017

I'm going for broke here and tear apart your Roster, because I'm a friend. :D

MARIO: Paper Mario, sorry. Lots of more deserving roster slots.
DK: This looks ok.
Wario/Yoshi: Agree
POKEMON: Iffy about Genesect... Not unlikely, but the fact you replaced Jigglypuff sticks out a lot.
STAR FOX: Perfect.
KID ICARUS: HOLD IT! 3 reps? A little overkill, don't you think?
FIRE EMBLEM: *WARNING, super controversial stuff* I don't see Chrom this time...
MOTHER: Perfect
AC: Perfect
STAFY: Ok.
F-ZERO: Perfect
GOLDEN SUN: Perfect
WTFs: Perfect
PUNCH OUT: Perfect
Retro: Takamaru is the most likely next retro newcomer, so yeah.
3RD PARTIES: I have nothing against Bomberman... but he has to get in over SNAKE of all people, the #1 most popular character in Japan, last year.


Observations:
CHROM: I feel Sakurai will want to do something more creative for F.E., and I believe Tactician/Robin will be more up his alley than making yet ANOTHER sword-based moveset. (Chrom might even be part of his moveset for all we know)
Yes, Tactician lacks an identity, or so to say. But do remember people have the same issues with P.T. and WFT. (And they said the exact same thing for Villager back in the Brawl days, which is why everyone preferred Tom Nook)

MEDUSA: replace with SAKI from Sin & Punishment!.
At least the guy deserves some credit after Kid Icarus Uprising blatantly copied... sorry... "homaged" Sin & Punishment's game style!
That guys' assist trophy in Brawl had so many moves and animations, he was practically a character!
I really don't get what's the dealio against him. He has a laser gun AND laser sword. And his Final Smash is a giant mech-organic-like monster.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

We need evidence that Bomberman is mentioned by Sakurai, in order for him to be likely

HE SAID BOMB IN AN INTERVIEW AND HE IS A MAN

...

BOMBERMAN CONFARMED

 

[3Bismyname]

Pokemon could easily have 5 reps. hell Fire Emblem could theoretically have 5 as well cause these are both series that have lots of characters and in Fire Emblems case very few are reacurring. now im not saying that's likely im just saying it's very possible

 

[BluePikmin11]

Pokemon could easily have 5 reps. hell Fire Emblem could theoretically have 5 as well cause these are both series that have lots of characters and in Fire Emblems case very few are reacurring. now im not saying that's likely im just saying it's very possible

Fire Emblem is not at the popularity of Pokemon though.

 

[Sebz]

I don't know if I'd consider Mario to be complete yet. Adding Toad, on the other hand, would mean all five characters from SMB1 are present in playable form, as well as completing the list of playables from SMB2/SM3DWorld and the Toad's accompanying in the NSMB games. I'd consider Zelda, Kirby and a few other franchises to be 'complete' from a representation point but in terms of historical significance, there's a set of 5 Mario character designs that have been there since SMB onwards, and Toad is the only one of those not playable yet.

Reposting for Relevancy:

I do NOT want Toad as a playable character. His voice is just so URRRGGHH, it's freaking maddening. "WWRROOAH YEAH"- SHUT THE HELL UP!
Just take a listen, and if you're not driven completely mad by it, then you're probably not human:

*Disclaimer: This post may contain hyperbole.*

 

[Deleted member]

Mega.....Evolutions.......?
So much to take in, it's just so headache inducing....

They are incredibly lazy with the trophies in Brawl, but Pra_Mai could still be Paper Mario.

No, it is definitely not Paper Mario.

-Dr. Mario is still in the data. There wouldn't be data for two alternate Marios, just like there isn't data for two alternate Links (only Toon Link is in the data; no Young Link).
-Paper Mario is "papermario" everywhere else in the data. He'd go under that filename or "paper_mario".
-There is no logical sense in how the name "Paper Mario" becomes "pra_mai". How did you even come up with that?

 

[3Bismyname]

Fire Emblem is not at the popularity of Pokemon though.

im just saying in order for a series to feel complete some series like Fire Emblem could potentially warrant more characters than others regardless of the series popularity.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Sin & Punishment:
+Re-released as VC worldwide.
+Got Saki as an assist trophy (one of the best, for that matter, as in programmed and designed)
+Kicked off a Sequel with lots of favorable reviews, and an official High Score contest from Nintendo.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

What pot are you smoking and where can I get some?

How is Bomberman NOT likely? And what's wrong with a newcomer Pokemon? What acid are you on?

I think 4 Starfox characters is overrepresenting the franchise, it's like saying Zelda is as popular as Starfox.

The big 3 have 4 characters because there are 4 worthy characters. I doubt he adds characters because there needs to be a certain amount or there shouldn't be a certain amount. He add's the characters he feels are necessary, Ganondorf only got into Melee because he couldn't think of anyone else.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

im just saying in order for a series to feel complete some series like Fire Emblem could potentially warrant more characters than others regardless of the series popularity.

Yeah but... to be honest it'd really make no sense. All the games are about the same in popularity and whatnot, so just pick Marth, Ike, and Chrom or someone else in there and you're good to go. Throw in Roy if you really care.

 

[Khoru]

-There is no logical sense in how the name "Paper Mario" becomes "pra_mai". How did you even come up with that?

praper mairio

 

[Thirdkoopa]

How is Bomberman NOT likely? And what's wrong with a newcomer Pokemon? What acid are you on?

A new pokemon newcomer is fine (Though no real reason over Jigglypuff)

Bomberman has absolutely nothing in particular that stands out for him to be likely. There. And so far it's been shown that Konami doesn't care (Hey just like Rocket Knight Adventures... oh wait, that one even got a reboot, what?)

 

[shrooby]

I think 4 Starfox characters is overrepresenting the franchise, it's like saying Zelda is as popular as Starfox.

See, that's a reason why this subject is so strange. It's not good to look at so black and white like that. Zelda is a series driven by basically three characters (Granted, with distinct versions of those character. And Tingle's kinda doing his own thing). Where as Star Fox is driven by quite a few (more than three at the very least).
Having the same amount of Mother and Metroid characters in Brawl doesn't mean anything. However, I'm pretty sure Metroid is more popular than Mother is around the world. Star Fox having even three characters by that logic is overkill because that would be implying that it's actually even somewhat as popular as Mario which has only four characters.

What I'm trying to say is that the number of playable characters one franchise gets doesn't dictate or influence how many characters another one gets. They're independent. Driven only by factors within the series itself (How many important characters there are. How many games are in the franchise. Stuff like that).

 

[TheLastJinjo]

A new pokemon newcomer is fine (Though no real reason over Jigglypuff)

Bomberman has absolutely nothing in particular that stands out for him to be likely. There. And so far it's been shown that Konami doesn't care (Hey just like Rocket Knight Adventures... oh wait, that one even got a reboot, what?)

Okay, clearly you're the one who's on something.

Bomberman is one of the most iconic Video Game characters with the most affiliation with Nintendo and an incredible move set consisting of various Bomb types and party items. And you can't say Konami doesn't care when they JUST bought him recently. You haven't even given them a chance. It was barely a year ago. Why would Konami buy out one of the most iconic gaming characters in history if they didn't care.

I've never been given any reasons why Bomberman is unlikely other than him being owned by Konami (which is not a first party company.) If Sakurai wants Bomberman he'll add Bomberman and he has many reasons to.

Also I had Genesect over Jigglypuff because Pokemon doesn't really promote her anymore, although being a fairy Pokemon helps. I don't assure here removal though.

 

[CalumG]

I find this conversation offensive. I've smoked my fair share but I'm still reasonable and intelligent enough to know that Bomberman isn't likely. Possible, yes. Likely? Aww heelllllll no.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I find this conversation offensive. I've smoked my fair share but I'm still reasonable and intelligent enough to know that Bomberman isn't likely. Possible, yes. Likely? Aww heelllllll no.

Yet you have NO reasons posted to back it up.The way you described Bomberman's chances is incredibly ignorant. Clearly not an intelligent statement.

 

[kingmario92]

Okay, clearly you're the one who's on something.

Bomberman is one of the most iconic Video Game characters with the most affiliation with Nintendo and an incredible move set consisting of various Bomb types and party items.

Most affiliated as in the most affiliated character with Nintendo that isn't a Nintendo character? If that's what your saying, then that's a flat-out lie.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Reposting for Relevancy:

To be fair if you listened to two minutes and thirty six seconds of most characters just making incessive grunting, pain, happy and sad noises you'd get irritated. Try the same with Jigglypufff, Peach, Daisy, Link, Yoshi, Pikachu, Bowser Jr., Waluigi etc and it's much the same effect.

Although yeah, listening to all of that in one go is annoying.

Still supporting Toad for relevence on the series though.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Okay, clearly you're the one who's on something.

Bomberman is one of the most iconic Video Game characters with the most affiliation with Nintendo and an incredible move set consisting of various Bomb types and party items. And you can't say Konami doesn't care when they JUST bought him recently. You haven't even given them a chance. It was barely a year ago. Why would Konami buy out one of the most iconic gaming characters in history if they didn't care.

I've never been given any reasons why Bomberman is unlikely other than him being owned by Konami (which is not a first party company.) If Sakurai wants Bomberman he'll add Bomberman and he has many reasons to.

Also I had Genesect over Jigglypuff because Pokemon doesn't really promote her anymore, although being a fairy Pokemon helps. I don't assure here removal though.

Yeah, he's iconic, and yeah, he can have a unique moveset, but that doesn't mean Sakurai will go out of his way to add him

People do it all the time in companies broseph: It's commin in the game's industry. And we haven't seen much of him before then.

I will say still that contrary to what people think, I can see two characters from one company.

 

[shrooby]

Yet you have NO reasons posted to back it up. And I have no reason to take CalumG's word for it.

Because BomberMan has to live up the likes of Sonic and Megaman. He's is not as popular as them, to put it bluntly. There's also Snake, who is also more popular than him (but the difference isn't as drastic that that of Megaman and Sonic). But what Snake lacks in popularity he makes up for the main reason he's playable in the first place, which I don't think I have to restate. You have to realize just how much has to be going for a third party character. I know I'm just restating, but this is the biggest hurdle! And it's the hurdle that he probably will not get over.
But, just to let you know, I'm all for Bomber Man as I like some of his games. Just so long as it doesn't mean Snake gets the boot, which in the case of your roster it does. I just don't think he's all that likely because of this huge hurdle. That's my opinion on a bunch of characters.

 

[Espio264]

Dude, I love Bomberman and would love to see him included. Crap, I'd give away any two other newcomers for his inclusion, but you're unfairly asserting your personal bias as fact. Little Mac is likely. Ridley is likely. Bomberman is a distant possibility. I hope, come release day I can eat these words, but honestly, this is one of the many reoccurring arguments I've seen on these forums over the past months that is just getting old.

On another note, this Mega Lucario is pretty rad.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Why Bomberman is likely:

1. One of the most iconic video game characters
2. Hundreds of games on almost every console
3. More affiliation with Nintendo than any other nominated Third-Party
4. Great Move Set Potential
5. Owned by an even bigger company than before
6. If Sakurai wants him he will add him and he has every reason to

Reasons why he's not

1. Owned by Konami (This doesn't work because we don't know if Snake will return, if he does I'd say he's unlikely, but Snake was just a favor to appear for once.)
2. Not relevant (This doesn't work because his last game was in 2010 and his games are still being sold, he's hardly any less relevant than Pac-Man, and the Mega Man that was represented is the NES version.

So yeah, he is likely.

Most affiliated as in the most affiliated character with Nintendo that isn't a Nintendo character? If that's what your saying, then that's a flat-out lie.

Than who is? It's certainly not Pac-Man, Mega Man, or Snake.