Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[mimgrim]

Who would you cut instead of Lucas and Wolf then? Take into consideration that it'll always hurt more to remove unique characters than semi-clones, no matter how important the semi-clones are to their franchises. Falco and Luigi are the only semi-clones I consider safe, Luigi is obvious while Falco already won over Wolf in Melee as the Fox clone and is more popular in general than him.

And no, Sakurai checks all audiences, I'm not sure where the whole "Japan is best to Sakurai" mentality stems from, but it's not true.

Wolf ain't no damn semi-clone bub. People really need to get that through their thick headed skulls. Oh woohoo he has simmilar Specials, well guess what those simmilar Specials have different animations and work different from Fox, his blaster deals actual contact damage and the lazer is completly differen't from Fox's, his illusion angles him upwards has a far different animation, his jetpack doesn't cover him in fire and he kicks at the end of it and he can't move to either side right when it finishes, even his reflector looks different. .-.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Sonic was meant for Melee as well ok that screws everyone who said sonic is going to get kicked

 

[TumblrFamous]

Hi, everyone! I'm free for the morning! So, what's happening today?

 

[FlareHabanero]

So, what's happening today?

 

[Autumn ♫]

Sonic was meant for Melee as well ok that screws everyone who said sonic is going to get kicked

Wat?

 

[TumblrFamous]

I see. Well, does anyone expect anything new this upcoming week? I think next week we'll be having a character reveal. Anyone agree?

 

[Gingerbread Man]

I see. Well, does anyone expect anything new this upcoming week? I think next week we'll be having a character reveal. Anyone agree?

Of course. But I've been expecting something every week. Statistically, I'm probably wrong on this one too.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

L

Wat?

Look at post 16115 on page 403

 

[TumblrFamous]

Of course. But I've been expecting something every week. Statistically, I'm probably wrong on this one too.

Well, do you mean just something new in general? Because I have too. But I'm thinking this week or next we'll see a new or returning character.

 

[mimgrim]

New roster of mine.

I still have that gut feeling ROB is leaving, but meh.

 

[Phan7om]

I see. Well, does anyone expect anything new this upcoming week? I think next week we'll be having a character reveal. Anyone agree?

Maybe since Game & Wario just came out in America, maybe ? maybe BOTH? Idk ... but maybe not since its been a while since it came out in Japan. And it would be hard to believe they would reveal Wario and/or G&W before Luigi or something.

 

[LaniusShrike]

New roster of mine.

I still have that gut feeling ROB is leaving, but meh.

No... no King K.Rool?
Oh...

And, of course, I'm sure lots of people have negative thoughts on Eevee's inclusion, but I'm not poké-qualified enough to comment on that. Cool seeing Mach Rider to represent the retro era...
And even more cool seeing Simon. I always love seeing him on rosters. :D

Poor Snake... but, if he went away and Simon came, I don't think I'd complain much.

 

[Autumn ♫]

What's up with all the Eevee love lately?

 

[IsmaR]

It seems that Hotfeet finally broke through to everyone.

 

[mimgrim]

No... no King K.Rool?
Oh...

And, of course, I'm sure lots of people have negative thoughts on Eevee's inclusion, but I'm not poké-qualified enough to comment on that. Cool seeing Mach Rider to represent the retro era...
And even more cool seeing Simon. I always love seeing him on rosters. :D

Poor Snake... but, if he went away and Simon came, I don't think I'd complain much.

I'm one of the ones who find Dixie more likely, planned for previous Smash games, is more popular in Japan, ect....

Eevee makes sense if you think about it, very concuring among the games, continues to be popular, ect... My only worry for Eevee is that it might have missed it's chance in a earlier game.

I still see Snake as a one time thing still, however to keep someone from Konami I deicde to go with Simon because he keeps that uniquness and matureness that Snake presented.

 

[CalumG]

Eevee didn't miss it's chance in earlier games... it'd just be incredibly difficult to implement in Smash. Anything that doesn't show off its evolutions would be a waste of the character, but equally, it's not Nintendo's nor Sakurai's style to show off certain evolutions over others (such as, say, only being able to obtain the first three Eeveelutions). The only way I could see Eevee working is if it could evolve into all of it's different evolutions (as a permanent transformation of sorts) but each of them were basically model swaps with different attack effects (one having Fire, one having Ganon's dark purple energy, one having water etc.) because otherwise putting Eevee in the game would either be a disservice to Eevee, or the equivalent of including 8+ characters - both of which I do not see happening.

 

[Autumn ♫]

I think that Meowth would probably get into Smash before Eevee would.

 

[TheCreator]

elohel

 

[mimgrim]

Eevee didn't miss it's chance in earlier games... it'd just be incredibly difficult to implement in Smash. Anything that doesn't show off its evolutions would be a waste of the character, but equally, it's not Nintendo's nor Sakurai's style to show off certain evolutions over others (such as, say, only being able to obtain the first three Eeveelutions). The only way I could see Eevee working is if it could evolve into all of it's different evolutions (as a permanent transformation of sorts) but each of them were basically model swaps with different attack effects (one having Fire, one having Ganon's dark purple energy, one having water etc.) because otherwise putting Eevee in the game would either be a disservice to Eevee, or the equivalent of including 8+ characters - both of which I do not see happening.

While an evolution gimmick would be nice I don't think it is as much of a requirment as you suggest it is. Eevee could work by itself and have color swaps that kinda look like smaller version of it's evolutions. But if a evolution gimmick was added I would expect the evolutions to all have the same basic attacks as Eevee and grabs with different Special animations but for the Specials to function simmilary the same, the biggest differences would probably be in terms of speed, power, and hit boxes.

 

[BluePikmin11]

http://nintendoeverything.com/sakur...er-in-new-smash-bros-just-to-surprise-people/
So has anyone read it yet? I think uniqueness is obviously a key factor now... (I haven't been for a while, PS.)

 

[Starbound]

Uniqueness has been a huge factor since Melee, when we got Zelda/Sheik, Mr. Game & Watch and Ice Climbers.

Doing something to stick out from the crowd has always helped to get characters into Smash Bros. Popularity will only take you so far.

 

[Gune]

http://nintendoeverything.com/sakur...er-in-new-smash-bros-just-to-surprise-people/
So has anyone read it yet? I think uniqueness is obviously a key factor now... (I haven't been for a while, PS.)

Im gonna guess this is more evidence that people with unique movesets will stay?

 

[CalumG]

While an evolution gimmick would be nice I don't think it is as much of a requirment as you suggest it is. Eevee could work by itself and have color swaps that kinda look like smaller version of it's evolutions. But if a evolution gimmick was added I would expect the evolutions to all have the same basic attacks as Eevee and grabs with different Special animations but for the Specials to function simmilary the same, the biggest differences would probably be in terms of speed, power, and hit boxes.

No, I'd say if anything evolution is the defining feature of Eevee - an evolution gimmick of some kind is definitely a requirement and I'm sure most would agree. I'm sure there are the few exceptions to the rule, but for the most part, nobody trains an Eevee because they like Eevee, and Eevee isn't popular on it's own merit - Eevee is popular because of it's wealth of evolutions and the popularity of their designs.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

No, I'd say if anything evolution is the defining feature of Eevee - an evolution gimmick of some kind is definitely a requirement and I'm sure most would agree. I'm sure there are the few exceptions to the rule, but for the most part, nobody trains an Eevee because they like Eevee, and Eevee isn't popular on it's own merit - Eevee is popular because of it's wealth of evolutions and the popularity of their designs.

You seem to be forgetting about the very vocal fanbase that loves Eevee and its evolutions simply because they're cute. Given, the concept Eevee has with turning into a wide assortment of types is an interesting one and well merits popularity, but most competitive battles use only Vaporeon, Espeon, or Jolteon. The rest of the Eeveelution's fame comes from being marketing material, so of course it'd be available each generation to keep people excited. There's also a large demographic for people who draw Eeveelutions and have plushies without even having played a Pokemon game using Eevee on their team, too. Eevee's popularity comes from a number of places, but "being able to evolve into any type I need" is far from the biggest one.

I'm also aware of how Smash isn't canon and all, but it goes against day one of the series to allow Eevee to evolve throughout the fight and return back into Eevee, which it would have to do or else we'd be worrying about 9 different movesets on one character. Unless X&Y introduces a "De-evolution Stone" and completely throws the "Evolved Pokemon stay evolved forever" notion out the window, Eevee is stuck being an average quadruped fighter with nothing to make it particularly stick out. I doubt such a stone would even happen either, considering how enormous a movepool all of the Eeveelutions would suddenly have.

 

[CalumG]

You seem to be forgetting about the very vocal fanbase that loves Eevee and its evolutions simply because they're cute. Given, the concept Eevee has with turning into a wide assortment of types is an interesting one and well merits popularity, but most competitive battles use only Vaporeon, Espeon, or Jolteon. The rest of the Eeveelution's fame comes from being marketing material, so of course it'd be available each generation to keep people excited. There's also a large demographic for people who draw Eeveelutions and have plushies without even having played a Pokemon game using Eevee on their team, too. Eevee's popularity comes from a number of places, but "being able to evolve into any type I need" is far from the biggest one.

I'm also aware of how Smash isn't canon and all, but it goes against day one of the series to allow Eevee to evolve throughout the fight and return back into Eevee, which it would have to do or else we'd be worrying about 9 different movesets on one character. Unless X&Y introduces a "De-evolution Stone" and completely throws the "Evolved Pokemon stay evolved forever" notion out the window, Eevee is stuck being an average quadruped fighter with nothing to make it particularly stick out. I doubt such a stone would even happen either, considering how enormous a movepool all of the Eeveelutions would suddenly have.

All of which contributes to me not wanting Eevee playable - you either do the character justice, or you do nothing at all. That being said, I wouldn't mind an Eevee Pokeball - it comes out as Eevee, evolves into a random Eeveelution, then does an attack depending on the evolution. Like a slow-acting Pokeball I guess, because it'd have to evolve before it attacks.

 

[Jak_spoon]

Eevee could use baton pass and switch to one of its evolved forms

 

[mimgrim]

Robert summed it up for me and better then I could have.

But you still aren't getting the point. Eevee doesn't have to have it's evolutions to do it justice, like Robert said Smash isn't canon so if Sakurai wanted to he could give Eevee moves its evolutions can learn and all that, for Specials of course.

Also Robert I understand your reasoning for not wanting a evolution gimmick for Eevee, but say it evolves during batle and stays like that for the rest of the battle, evne when KO'd, and perhaps even onto the victory screen? Would that work right for you without totally disregarding how evolution works in Pokemon games? with the power to cancle the evolutions to?

 

[shinhed-echi]

No, I'd say if anything evolution is the defining feature of Eevee - an evolution gimmick of some kind is definitely a requirement and I'm sure most would agree. I'm sure there are the few exceptions to the rule, but for the most part, nobody trains an Eevee because they like Eevee, and Eevee isn't popular on it's own merit - Eevee is popular because of it's wealth of evolutions and the popularity of their designs.

I used to have an Eevee team back in Gold/Silver days... Including an unevolved Lvl100 Eevee. :3

I do love Eevee.. still.. I still Meowth deserves a spot just a LITTLE more than Eevee, but that's just me.

I like em both, and to be honest I really wouldn't know who to choose. If Eevee had a gimmick to play with his multiple evolutions, then I'd go Eevee all the way. If it's just plain old Eevee, or just one of his many evolutions, then I go for Meowth.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Also Robert I understand your reasoning for not wanting a evolution gimmick for Eevee, but say it evolves during batle and stays like that for the rest of the battle, evne when KO'd, and perhaps even onto the victory screen? Would that work right for you without totally disregarding how evolution works in Pokemon games? with the power to cancle the evolutions to?

Considering it'd still mean having to worry about 9 animations and/or movesets, it still wouldn't work. You are literally describing to me a gimmick that would take up the same amount of effort as three Pokemon Trainers. And it would only get worse with each passing game, since there is no doubt that Eevee's fans would throw a tantrum if a single one of the Eeveelutions doesn't get incorporated into the moveset, meaning that by Generation 10, we would have somewhere around thirteen different movesets in one character. That is completely insane. If a gimmick is going to be made, they should at least be simple to create, otherwise they're just waiting for the chopping block between games.

 

[Glaciacott]

I seriously think all the Generation 1 Pokemon love is unwarranted. Yes, it started the series, but it ignores just how much of an impact recent generations, particularly Gen 5 and now 6, have had in establishing a new, larger fan-base.

Even when thinking nothing of which generation is represented, Eevee would be a rather clunky character to deal with. Its gimmick is evolving, and we're talking about what is now 8 different eeveelutions. Incorporating each one into a moveset is nightmarish, and as a developer I'd imagine prefering to just work on 8 different characters. And then, even if you incorporate their moves into just Eevee to avoid that, then you're ignoring the point of Eevee, which is to evolve. If it wasn't for that, Eevee would be as relevant as Lillipup.

 

[shinhed-echi]

My idea for an evolution gimmick to work would be to keep the same animations for all Eeeveelutions, and just change the effect of each attack. Maybe replace ONE special (B Neutral) at most.

I'd say change their attributes such as Weight, Speed, Power, etc... but maybe that'd be TOO much. Just make them heavier than Eevee and call it a day.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

whoopsie weird double posting shenanigans

 

[mimgrim]

Considering it'd still mean having to worry about 9 animations and/or movesets, it still wouldn't work. You are literally describing to me a gimmick that would take up the same amount of effort as three Pokemon Trainers. And it would only get worse with each passing game, since there is no doubt that Eevee's fans would throw a tantrum if a single one of the Eeveelutions doesn't get incorporated into the moveset, meaning that by Generation 10, we would have somewhere around thirteen different movesets in one character. That is completely insane. If a gimmick is going to be made, they should at least be simple to create, otherwise they're just waiting for the chopping block between games.

Now I have to ask why would they have to have different movesets? All the basic attacks could be the same and all that, with perhaps Specials getting a different animation to better fit the current one, with the major difference between them beings hitboxes, speed, and power. Of course it is still quite a bit of work, but it isn't quite as complex as creating different movesets for each one. But I think Eevee by itself would work just as great.

I seriously think all the Generation 1 Pokemon love is unwarranted. Yes, it started the series, but it ignores just how much of an impact recent generations, particularly Gen 5 and now 6, have had in establishing a new, larger fan-base.

Even when thinking nothing of which generation is represented, Eevee would be a rather clunky character to deal with. Its gimmick is evolving, and we're talking about what is now 8 different eeveelutions. Incorporating each one into a moveset is nightmarish, and as a developer I'd imagine prefering to just work on 8 different characters. And then, even if you incorporate their moves into just Eevee to avoid that, then you're ignoring the point of Eevee, which is to evolve. If it wasn't for that, Eevee would be as relevant as Lillipup.

Gen 1 is like the most popular Pokemon gen. Besides gen 6 can get repped through Newtwo. e_e

As for the evolution thing being required for Eevee that has already been said that it isn't required, as despit what you might think Eevee is popular for more then just being able to evolve into many different types. ._.

 

[Jak_spoon]

Baton pass to trade with 5 other forms. That way the smash series can evolve yet be controlled as each instalment cones out. And didn't sakurai say he could make 6 clones in the same time as one new character? I bet it's feasible.

 

[Starbound]

5 other formes? That's still a massive amount of work for one character!

I honestly think if any member of the Eevee family is going to get into Smash Bros., it's going to be Sylveon because it's ribbons can act as arms. That's just like how Ivysaur worked.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Good afternoon all, how's everyone doing today? What might our subject of the hour be?

 

[Gune]

Good afternoon all, how's everyone doing today? What might our subject of the hour be?

You might be a little happy to see its about eevee.

also is your icon from panty and stocking?

 

[Arcanir]

As for the evolution thing being required for Eevee that has already been said that it isn't required, as despit what you might think Eevee is popular for more then just being able to evolve into many different types. ._.

Except that is what partially makes Eevee popular, it's impossible to have all of them in and properly represent them in a moveset. The best idea I've heard is the Syvleon idea but even then I don't think Sakurai would use just one Eeveelution over all the others.

 

[Hotfeet444]

You might be a little happy to see its about eevee.

also is your icon from panty and stocking?

That depends on the direction taken in discussing Eevee. Also, just a PS, Eevee or any of the eeveelutions are NOT my favorite pokemon...my favorite pokemon is Giratina...who I think would be a great boss for Smash Bros. ...Vaporeon is in my top 5 though.

And yes, that's Scanty and Kneesocks, the new CEOs of EA as Fastener rips apart the script for the original Mass Effect 3 Ending.

It's Dangerous to go alone, take this...

 

[mimgrim]

Except that is what partially makes Eevee popular, it's impossible to have all of them in and properly represent them in a moveset. The best idea I've heard is the Syvleon idea but even then I don't think Sakurai would use just one Eeveelution over all the others.

Partially, I won't deny that, but it isn't the only factor and is by no means a required gimmick for it like people claim it to be. I believe it is possible for the evolutions to be shown through color swaps instead if a evolution gimmick is to much and just give it moves that it's evolutions can learn and work perfectly fine.