Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[TheLastJinjo]

VGChartz - not always 100% accurate due to the rise of downloadable games, but accurate enough to make it obvious which franchise has consistently outsold the other.

Super Mario 64 is ONE game that sold 11.89million according to the same site...................so how does that work. It said OVERALL franchise? I'm not denying it, but it's questionable.

Super Mario 64 is ONE game that sold 11.89million according to the same site...................so how does that work. It said OVERALL franchise? I'm not denying it, but it's questionable.

Based on what Pac-Man games that exist outside of the original Arcade game and it's remakes. I'd assume Bomberman.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

Therefor, Pacman would be a very marketable choice in this regard. It is HE who will increase the sales of the game towards the casuals, not Bomberman (not that there is anything wrong with that...) That said, Pacman would be a great addition to the roster, given the arguments that have been made in favor of Pacman.

 

[CalumG]

Super Mario 64 is ONE game that sold 11.89million according to the same site...................so how does that work. It said OVERALL franchise? I'm not denying it, but it's questionable.

It works because Mario 64 was a system seller. Bomberman is not, and never has been.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

What, and you think there's no Hetalia fans in Nintendo?

Huh?!

 

[3Bismyname]

Super Mario 64 is ONE game that sold 11.89million according to the same site...................so how does that work. It said OVERALL franchise? I'm not denying it, but it's questionable.

well considering the N64 sold over 20 million units in the Americas alone, i'd say that number is pretty accurate

 

[TheLastJinjo]

It is HE who will increase the sales of the game towards the casuals

I don't think this game is marketed towards casuals.

 

[CalumG]

I don't think this game is marketed towards casuals.

It's marketed towards everybody. That is, and always has been the point of Smash Bros.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

But it still helps the sales from non-Smash people, the same way Snake and/or Sonic would have boosted sales of the game just based on their performance alone.

 

[mimgrim]

I don't think this game is marketed towards casuals.

.......Ok really? REALLY? You REALLY believe THIS?

It's marketed towards everybody. That is, and always has been the point of Smash Bros.

*points at Brawl* Like it or not, Braw was meant for casuals. e_e

 

[TheLastJinjo]

.......Ok really? REALLY? You REALLY believe THIS?

You'd think it'd be marketed towards hardcore gamers, I guess not?

 

[CalumG]

Impressive, but like I said, move potential has a huge influence in a third-party's appearance.

Sources? Sakurai has never cited move potential as being a factor in a third party's appearance. Snake and Sonic were both requested to be included by their creators, and Sonic and Megaman both consistently topped popularity polls. "Move potential", a completely abstract concept, has not come into it so far.

 

[mimgrim]

You'd think it'd be marketed towards hardcore people, I guess not?

Sakurai has said so himself (Bralw being marketed towards casuals that is). lol I'm guessing you know nothing about all the Melee VS Brawl debates that go on in other places in the forum. lol

 

[TheDivineDeity]

You'd think it'd be marketed towards hardcore gamers, I guess not?

By your logic, it's gotta be either one way or another...

 

[Arcadenik]

I don't think this game is marketed towards casuals.

And yet we already got two newcomers from casual franchises: Villager and Wii Fit Trainer.

 

[OcarinaOfDoom]

VGChartz can be unreliable at times. And a random note about Bomberman v Pac-Man, Bomberman has an estimate of 5.46 million Japanese sales, while Pac-Man has 1.17 million Japanese sales.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Sources? Sakurai has never cited move potential as being a factor in a third party's appearance. Snake and Sonic were both requested to be included by their creators, and Sonic and Megaman both consistently topped popularity polls. "Move potential", a completely abstract concept, has not come into it so far.

Mega Man’s most unique trait is his ability to acquire and use the powers of bosses he defeats, and this was what Sakurai wanted to work into the game.
http://www.siliconera.com/2013/06/2...the-other-new-characters-in-super-smash-bros/

By your logic, it's gotta be either one way or another...

Is that what I said? I don't believe I ever said that.

VGChartz can be unreliable at times. And a random note about Bomberman v Pac-Man, Bomberman has an estimate of 5.46 million Japanese sales, while Pac-Man has 1.17 million Japanese sales.

Also there's the fact that Bomberman has more affiliation with Nintendo in comics, making games, and his appearance in Wario Blast. Also Bomberman had quite a lot of Animes.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

*points at Brawl* Like it or not, Braw was meant for casuals. e_e

Doesn't mean people can't or won't play it competetively.

 

[mimgrim]

You'd think it'd be marketed towards hardcore gamers, I guess not?

Lemme be more precise. It could be argued that 64 was meant more for hardcore gamers as it was an experiment and never even advertise, however Ninteno was surprised at the amount of success the game got and decided to do another one. It could be argued Melee was meant for everyone, it was advertised, it had all the advance techniques such as L-canceling, Wavdashin, Dash Cancel, Power Shield, ect... but was the Nintendo all-star battle royal the appeases so many many people. Brawl however is definatly marketed towards casuals, Sakurai stated this himself, It took out many of the ATs Melee had and was meant to lower the barrier entry. Smash 4 seems to be going for everyone again this time around since Sakurai seems to be trying to please both sides.

 

[CalumG]

Mega Man’s most unique trait is his ability to acquire and use the powers of bosses he defeats, and this was what Sakurai wanted to work into the game.
http://www.siliconera.com/2013/06/26/sakurai-on-mega-man-and-the-other-new-characters-in-super-smash-bros

Is that what I said? I don't believe I ever said that.

And as a counterpoint, Sakurai specifically noted Sonic and Snake's lack of moveset potential when making Brawl - in Sonic's case that he had few moves other than rolling into a ball (causing Sakurai to turn to SEGA's Virtua Fighter series for physical move inspiration), and in Snake's case that most of his combat moves from Metal Gear Solid would not be appropriate for a child-friendly series like Smash.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

And as a counterpoint, Sakurai specifically noted Sonic and Snake's lack of moveset potential when making Brawl - in Sonic's case that he had few moves other than rolling into a ball (causing Sakurai to turn to SEGA's Virtua Fighter series for physical move inspiration), and in Snake's case that most of his combat moves from Metal Gear Solid would not be appropriate for a child-friendly series like Smash.

I never said it's the only thing that makes them worth adding. In fact most characters get in without moves because they're essential to representation

 

[mimgrim]

Doesn't mean people can't or won't play it competetively.

Thanks for assuming I was impling something I wasn't and making an ass out of you and me. -____-

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Thanks for assuming I was impling something I wasn't and making an *** out of you and me. -____-

I wasn't assuming. I was just making a statement.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

Enough of this fighting. Let's have a calm, cool discussion about this topic. No need to get overheated.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

So didn't Sakurai confirm not all Brawl characters will return, or was he just saying don't get your hopes up?

 

[OcarinaOfDoom]

So didn't Sakurai confirm not all Brawl characters will return, or was he just saying don't get your hopes up?

I believe it was 'not all characters from Melee and Brawl return'

 

[Khoru]

hoooooooow about we talk about something that's not bomberman and pac-man.

on the earlier question of what sort of third-parties people would want if restrictions like those extant weren't an issue, beyond the whole video game thing.
i think amaterasu (ōkami) and quote (cave story) would be cool.

 

[mimgrim]

I wasn't assuming. I was just making a statement.

And I was just informing someone on the marketing schemes of the Smash games, there was no need for that statement. Espically when that statement threatens to bring over the Melee VS Brawl debates when it gets posted. This thread for when I have been apart of it has done a rather good job of staying away from the Melee VS Brawl debates so far. -_-

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I never said it's the only thing that makes them worth adding. In fact most characters get in without moves because they're essential to representation

Sakurai is clever like that, he'll manage to come up with some random, yet fitting moves for a character to make them fit into the game and it's style.

Some people have said Falco is likely to be cut, (like ManlySpirit) and it's for reasons like this that I don't think he will.

 

[CalumG]

I never said it's the only thing that makes them worth adding. In fact most characters get in without moves because they're essential to representation

Precisely. So let's look at Pac-Man - Pac-Man is Namco's current mascot. Pac-Man is arguably the first mascot and recognizable character in the world of gaming. He's already appeared in crossovers with Sonic. Pac-Man is one of only a select few third-party franchises that Nintendo EAD have worked on (the creators of Mario, Zelda, Pikmin - notorious for not working on third-party games). Pac-Man is among the favourite game characters of many high-up Nintendo executives, including Shigeru Miyamoto. Namco and Nintendo are on great working terms, and games such as the original Pac-Man (NES) were some of the first big-selling third-party support titles Nintendo got on the Nintendo Entertainment System, and Pac-Man has historically been a dedicated third-party to Nintendo. Pac-Man is the only third-party left remaining that is as iconic as Sonic or Mario.

So I'm not saying he'll get in - in fact, all this petty arguing in this thread over Pac-Man and Bomberman has honestly put me off both - but does it not strike you that Sakurai would see Pac-Man as more important to represent than Bomberman?

 

[TheDivineDeity]

I preferred Brawl as the superior game personally but that's just my opinion... what's the topic now, if not Bomberman and Pacman?

 

[KingofPhantoms]

And I was just informing someone on the marketing schemes of the Smash games, there was no need for that statement. Espically when that statement threatens to bring over the Melee VS Brawl debates when it gets posted. This thread for when I have been apart of it has done a rather good job of staying away from the Melee VS Brawl debates so far. -_-

I realized that shortly after the response.

Anyway, sorry for that. Let's drop it here before it turns into an argument.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

...Wow, this thread died pretty quickly... anything else up for conversation?

 

[FlareHabanero]

I never said it's the only thing that makes them worth adding. In fact most characters get in without moves because they're essential to representation

I think one misconception is that a character needs combat experience in order to function, but in reality that is not a necessity.

Common sense dictates that anyone with hands or feet can preform punches and kicks, characters with weapons like swords or hammers can swing them around, and characters with psychic or magical powers can preform actions like telekinesis. However, that's just the bare minimum, as each action will vary even between similar characters. There is also the golden rule of archetypes, which anything can fall into. Generally speaking, just through common sense can you dictate a mental image on how a character will work.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

Which is why Pacman CAN work in a Smash game.

 

[Reznor]

speaking of Bomberman I went out and bought my favorite Bomberman game ever Bomberman Tournament it was only 8 dollars
I know its not considered a good game but its one of my favorites

 

[TheLastJinjo]

does it not strike you that Sakurai would see Pac-Man as more important to represent than Bomberman?

Most people yes, Sakurai probably not. But, I can't speak for Sakurai. It just doesn't seem like the character he would find important based on the current 3 Third-Parites that made it in.


Let's talk about Little Mac. Do you think he's going out miss out again? Sakurai says he isn't really keen to add fighters to the game and Little Mac is solely that along with his moves mostly being Fist & Fighting Oriented.

“The biggest feature we look at in Smash Bros. is, ‘What does this character bring to Smash Bros. that other characters don’t?’ If you look at… someone from a fighting game already, and people like fighting with this character, from my point of view, it’s like ‘this guy does what this guy already does. He fills the role that this character already has. So while you may like this character and he’s interesting, that doesn’t really merge well, here.”

I just want to clarify this and get everyone's opinion before I cut Little Mac from my main roster because he fits this description perfectly.

 

[shinhed-echi]

And I was just informing someone on the marketing schemes of the Smash games, there was no need for that statement. Espically when that statement threatens to bring over the Melee VS Brawl debates when it gets posted. This thread for when I have been apart of it has done a rather good job of staying away from the Melee VS Brawl debates so far. -_-

Since you bring this up, I've wanted an excuse to express something.


I like how SSB is by no means a "marketing game".
It actually feels like a celebration of Nintendo franchises, and those close with Nintendo.

There are other crossover games which are blatant marketing tools, being the worst offenders: PSASBR, Sonic and All-Stars Racing Transformed.
Yet what does SSB do? Redesign Pit? And that was even before they decided to make Uprising. So ROY was really the only promotional material ever.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I think by fighting characters, I think he's talking along the lines of characters like Ryu, Heihachi, and Akira. He wants to avoid adding generic fighting game characters in that kind of way, and if you're familiar with fighting games of that light, you can see why it would be discouraged. This doesn't mean that characters that have appeared in a fighting game won't happen, because we already have several characters like that already. It's simply a way to promote and encourage diversity, so please don't look deeply into it.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I think by fighting characters, I think he's talking along the lines of characters like Ryu, Heihachi, and Akira. He wants to avoid adding generic fighting game characters in that kind of way, and if you're familiar with fighting games of that light, you can see why it would be discouraged. This doesn't mean that characters that have appeared in a fighting game won't happen, because we already have several characters like that already. It's simply a way to promote and encourage diversity, so please don't look deeply into it.

I think Little Mac is far more generic than any of those 3 fighters.

 

[Silverjay323]

Since you bring this up, I've wanted an excuse to express something.


I like how SSB is by no means a "marketing game".
It actually feels like a celebration of Nintendo franchises, and those close with Nintendo.

There are other crossover games which are blatant marketing tools, being the worst offenders: PSASBR, Sonic and All-Stars Racing Transformed.
Yet what does SSB do? Redesign Pit? And that was even before they decided to make Uprising. So ROY was really the only promotional material ever.

Gotta disagree with you on ASRT. The reason many others deserving characters didn't get in was simply due to fact that sumo couldn't work out how their vehicles would transform. Ages, Vyse, Gilius and Joe Musashi are hardly marketing tools rather just pure fanservice.