Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[mimgrim]

Good afternoon all, how's everyone doing today? What's our topic of the hour? But before that...I have these...

Just a group of Pokemon characters, including Genesect, Eevee, Johto Pokemon Trainer and Spiky Eared Pichu (DLC). Enjoy.

You still doing the other requests right? I'm still waiting for Shiki. :L

Except maybe people who liked playing as Clonedorf, but screw them.

Well Clonedorf in Melee is actually good, upper mid tier, and imo fun to play. Clonedorf in Brawl is horrible though, they ruined his speed far to much compared to his speed in Melee. This is why I want OoT design back, because TP design Dorf sucks ass in brawl. :/

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Just a visual update. I noticed Mewtwo often changes back to his original form, as the Awakening is a limited power up. So it makes more sense as a Final Smash. (I'd like to point out I'm not guaranteeing Lucario's removal, but I don't want to look like a JigglyPuff/Fairy hater.)

 

[CalumG]

Well Clonedorf in Melee is actually good, upper mid tier, and imo fun to play. Clonedorf in Brawl is horrible though, they ruined his speed far to much compared to his speed in Melee. This is why I want OoT design back, because TP design Dorf sucks *** in brawl. :/

His playstyle was fun, but I always took issue with his clone status - it's really that simple in my mind. There's just no logic behind it. It's a daft decision Sakurai made in the Melee days, and it stuck about in the Brawl days due to Sakurai's fear of annoying fans who had already grown used to his playstyle. Can you imagine if he actually went through with the god-awful idea of making Wario a heavy Mario semi-clone in Melee (as he was going to) and Wario stayed that way in Brawl? That's how I feel every time I look at Ganondorf in Smash Bros. (only worse, because even Wario and Mario have more similarities than C. Falcon and Ganondorf). Of course, I'm just echoing the sentiment shared by near enough everyone on Smashboards.

So yeah... goodbye Clonedorf, viva la Demon King!

 

[TheLastJinjo]

His playstyle was fun, but I always took issue with his clone status - it's really that simple in my mind. There's just no logic behind it. It's a daft decision Sakurai made in the Melee days, and it stuck about in the Brawl days due to Sakurai's fear of annoying fans who had already grown used to his playstyle. Can you imagine if he actually went through with the god-awful idea of making Wario a heavy Mario semi-clone in Melee (as he was going to) and Wario stayed that way in Brawl? That's how I feel every time I look at Ganondorf in Smash Bros. (only worse, because even Wario and Mario have more similarities than C. Falcon and Ganondorf). Of course, I'm just echoing the sentiment shared by near enough everyone on Smashboards.

So yeah... goodbye Clonedorf, viva la Demon King!

Ganondorf fighting with his fists is way more badass, If he had his sword it just wouldn't be as exciting.

 

[mimgrim]

His playstyle was fun, but I always took issue with his clone status - it's really that simple in my mind. There's just no logic behind it. It's a daft decision Sakurai made in the Melee days, and it stuck about in the Brawl days due to Sakurai's fear of annoying fans who had already grown used to his playstyle. Can you imagine if he actually went through with the god-awful idea of making Wario a heavy Mario semi-clone in Melee (as he was going to) and Wario stayed that way in Brawl? That's how I feel every time I look at Ganondorf in Smash Bros. (only worse, because even Wario and Mario have more similarities than C. Falcon and Ganondorf). Of course, I'm just echoing the sentiment shared by near enough everyone on Smashboards.

So yeah... goodbye Clonedorf, viva la Demon King!

Well to be fair to Sakurai he mostly wanted to beef-up the roster and thus looked for easy clones, and Ganondorf does admitidly have a simmilar body structure to Falcon, well OoTdorf anyway, and it worked fine in Melee. However TPdorf is imo is a bit of a different body structure from Falcon and imo the changes made to him to make him a tiny bit less of a clone were not for the better as they completly ruined him in Brawl. But in my mind Ganondorf sharing moves with Falcon makes more sense the Wario sharing moves with Mario. But I would also be fine with him being uncloned..... As long as he get's his speed and glory from Melee back with a simmilar playstyle, he doesn't have to have the same moves from Melee to have the same playstyle from Melee.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Ganondorf would play like Ike if he had a sword.

 

[CalumG]

Well to be fair to Sakurai he mostly wanted to beef-up the roster and thus looked for easy clones, and Ganondorf does admitidly have a simmilar body structure to Falcon, well OoTdorf anyway, and it worked fine in Melee. However TPdorf is imo is a bit of a different body structure from Falcon and imo the changes made to him to make him a tiny bit less of a clone were not for the better as they completly ruined him in Brawl. But in my mind Ganondorf sharing moves with Falcon makes more sense the Wario sharing moves with Mario. But I would also be fine with him being uncloned..... As long as he get's his speed and glory from Melee back with a simmilar playstyle, he doesn't have to have the same moves from Melee to have the same playstyle from Melee.

It makes more sense in your mind because you've had over 10 years to get used to it and rationalize the decision - if Ganondorf had never been in Smash before, and tomorrow Sakurai announced him, showing him off with a Falcon-clone moveset... Smashboards would collapse in on itself, unable to hold itself under the weight of peoples butthurt.

The Demon King, I feel, would work at his best with a combination of fist fighting and swordplay. Imagine it; Ganondorf swinging around a relatively swift and light sword, juggling an opponent and racking up damage, and then he comes in with a big purple fist of doom out of nowhere, sending the opponent to their death. Now that's badass.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Well to be fair to Sakurai he mostly wanted to beef-up the roster and thus looked for easy clones, and Ganondorf does admitidly have a simmilar body structure to Falcon, well OoTdorf anyway, and it worked fine in Melee. However TPdorf is imo is a bit of a different body structure from Falcon and imo the changes made to him to make him a tiny bit less of a clone were not for the better as they completly ruined him in Brawl. But in my mind Ganondorf sharing moves with Falcon makes more sense the Wario sharing moves with Mario. But I would also be fine with him being uncloned..... As long as he get's his speed and glory from Melee back with a simmilar playstyle, he doesn't have to have the same moves from Melee to have the same playstyle from Melee.

I completely agree. I think if he did have his sword it would be too generic. I think as long as they just differentiate him a little bit more, but bring back his Melee playstyle, he'll be good. And maybe change his Up-B, make it better.

 

[CalumG]

If I may also bring up Ganondorf's most iconic weapon - his trident. Sword may be generic, but there's no character yet in Smash with a trident and up until Wind Waker, Ganon was rarely seen without it.

 

[mimgrim]

It makes more sense in your mind because you've had over 10 years to get used to it and rationalize the decision - if Ganondorf had never been in Smash before, and tomorrow Sakurai announced him, showing him off with a Falcon-clone moveset... Smashboards would collapse in on itself, unable to hold itself under the weight of peoples butthurt.

The Demon King, I feel, would work at his best with a combination of fist fighting and swordplay. Imagine it; Ganondorf swinging around a relatively swift and light sword, juggling an opponent and racking up damage, and then he comes in with a big purple fist of doom out of nowhere, sending the opponent to their death. Now that's badass.

Thing is when I first found out Ganondorf was a clone in Melee I still wasn't surprised and it made snese to me even then. I wouldn't mind him having a Side Special where he uses a sword, but I don't want it his main focus. lol

If I may also bring up Ganondorf's most iconic weapon - his trident. Sword may be generic, but there's no character yet in Smash with a trident and up until Wind Waker, Ganon was rarely seen without it.

Again, I wouldn't mind a weapon for a couple of Specials, but I don't want it his main focused attack wise. I want his playstyle from Melee back.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Thing is when I first found out Ganondorf was a clone in Melee I still wasn't surprised and it made snese to em even then. I wouldn't mind him having a Side Special where he uses a sword, but I don't want it his main focus. lol

They could always use the sword or trident in some tilts and maybe the forward smash. He can still keep some of his punches and kicks, while having a few sword attacks. But I'd be fine if they just kept him the same with his Melee style.

 

[mimgrim]

They could always use the sword or trident in some tilts and maybe the forward smash. He can still keep some of his punches and kicks, while having a few sword attacks. But I'd be fine if they just kept him the same with his Melee style.

I would also be perfectly fine with Melee style, but people gonna ***** and moan about clones. :L

But no, his regular attacks need to stay with fists and kicks, to me it is what makes Ganondorf what he is in Smash. However I would be able to live with him using weapons for special attacks, but only as long as they bring back his Melee playstyle. I main Ganondorf in Melee for a reason. :L

 

[CalumG]

Most of Ganon's physical attacks and grabs can probably stay as they are, combining their best features from Melee and Brawl - after all, most of them are actually quite distinct from Falcon. It's his Falcon specials that rustle my jimmies - give him some unique stuff. Let him use his magic trident for some projectiles to balance him out, because his speed and aerial game limit him so much and a good projectile game could help that immensely. Of course, he could use the trident for one or two of his physicals too, but it'd mostly be an animation change than an actual move change.

 

[Seraphim.]

Ganondorf would play like Ike if he had a sword.

What.

 

[Diddy Kong]

So, which characters do you all think is the most likely to be revamped moveset-wise?

Ness
Yoshi
Zelda

 

[mimgrim]

Most of Ganon's physical attacks and grabs can probably stay as they are, combining their best features from Melee and Brawl - after all, most of them are actually quite distinct from Falcon. It's his Falcon specials that rustle my jimmies - give him some unique stuff. Let him use his magic trident for some projectiles to balance him out, because his speed and aerial game limit him so much and a good projectile game could help that immensely. Of course, he could use the trident for one or two of his physicals too, but it'd mostly be an animation change than an actual move change.

Brawl attacks were bad bad features and need to revert to Melee attacks, nuff said. Als fic that awful up-tilt for both versions. ;-;

Also his speed in Melee was perfect, he wasn't to fast, but he also wasn't to slow like in Brawl, and he actually had a not to bad aerial game in Melee. But I would be happy with a projectile for a Neutral Special and a sword combo of moves for a Side Spec (kinda like Marth, just not as many combos as Marth and stronger). However I kinda want his Up Spec to stay the same because it is just so freaking trolly as a recovery. Honestly changing his specials from Melee probably would improve his already good play style in Melee as long as he keeps his attacks and grabs (espically Dthrow, dem chain grabs baby), but yea I mostly just want Melee Ganon back with most of his attacks from Melee back (except the Uptilt, good God that thing needs to be fixed) but I wouldn't mind his Special getting changed.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Ness
Yoshi
Zelda

Mewtwo
JigglyPuff (obviously because she's a fairy Pokemon)
Pikmin & Olimar
Squirtle
Toon Link
Sonic
Meta Knight

 

[Hotfeet444]

Glad you all appreciate my hard work and I'm not just an expendable piece of meat to only draw what you want. (Goes and sits in the corner)

Anyways, are we really talking about keeping Ganondorf generally the same?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I'd rather Ganondorf be a clone of Captain Falcon.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Glad you all appreciate my hard work and I'm not just an expendable piece of meat to only draw what you want.

Anyways, are we really talking about keeping Ganondorf generally the same?

Draw the Grovyle from PMD2, you slave.
Only if you want to.

Yeah, it's Ganon time.
I can make a post showing how I would "Luigify" Captain Ganon some more.

----

 

[papagenos]

Ganondorf could have a sword or 2 swords though for a weapon i'd pick his trident personally (phantom ganon style) he could have purplely punches and kicks like he does just less C. Falcon esq he could have magic fireball projectiles he could ride a demon horse or summon monsters or even transform into ganon... point is theres a TON he could have if he stops being a falcon clone. easy fix? Add black shadow and make his play style like ganondorf if we are so afraid of losing a slow c. falcon clone. I personally think costumes are the way to go and have the cotumes changes tweak some things about the character so a black shadow costume for falcon making him then play like ganondorf would fix everything and we could actually get a ZELDA themed ganondorf.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

I'd rather Ganondorf be a clone of Captain Falcon.

In my unrealistic wishlist roster, I have four Ganon characters:

-"Captain Ganon" from OOT and SSBM who mainly uses dark magic and has the Gerudo Dragon from Melee.

-Twilight Princess Ganondorf from SSBB who uses a combination of dark magic and the sword of the sages (and flame choke from Brawl)

-Wind Waker Toon Ganon who is speedy and uses swords and has a parry attack.

-Classic Pig Ganon who uses fire kneese and a trident.

Unlike Link and Toon Link, all these Ganons are the same person (not sure about classic Ganon, though), but Smash is not canon, so I'll excuse it.

----
Captain Ganon's luigified moveset:

Warlock Punch is the same as in Melee and Brawl, but if you press B before he fully charges the magic in his hand, he'll throw it out as a projectile, like in OOT. Makes him more unpredictable.

Gerudo Dragon remains similar, but it has an extra property from Raptor Boost. (haven't thought of it yet)

Dark Dive remains the same, but now Ganon spins his cape and reflects projectiles if you press B at the top of his jump. Pressing B after UP+B when using the move on the ground will also make him spin his cape instead of jumping.

Wizard's Foot remains similar to Falcon Kick, but it has an extra property to it. (haven't thought of it, either.)

His Final Smashes are either the earthquake punch, the homing magic attack, or his Ganon transformation. (would be like Giga Bowser)

----
As for Twilight Ganon's Flame Choke, it will be the same, but act more like an actual grab, allowing you to literally choke the life out of an opponent if you mash B after holding someone up.

Not sure if I should've used past tense or present tense for these ideas.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Because I too have thoughts of designing Ganondorf but am too tired/lazy to list them all out...Enjoy as I continue drawing circles over here in the corner.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Ganondorf being Luigified would actually make a ton of sense. Just as long as he keeps the Warlock Punch and Dark Dive.

 

[mimgrim]

Glad you all appreciate my hard work and I'm not just an expendable piece of meat to only draw what you want. (Goes and sits in the corner)

Anyways, are we really talking about keeping Ganondorf generally the same?

You never answered my question. :L Are you still doing the other requests you took not that long ago? As I remember Renzor requesting Jhoto Trainer, so I'm wondering if you are still gonna do Shiki?

Anyways I mostly want his attacks, grabs, and throws from Melee back, except for that Up Tilt that thing needs to be fixed, however I wouldn't mind his Specials being changed to where he throws a trident for a Neutral Special and pulls out a sword for his Side Special. But his play style from Melee in general as great and I mostly want to see that kind of Ganondorf again in regards to speed and playstyle.

Ganondorf could have a sword or 2 swords though for a weapon i'd pick his trident personally (phantom ganon style) he could have purplely punches and kicks like he does just less C. Falcon esq he could have magic fireball projectiles he could ride a demon horse or summon monsters or even transform into ganon... point is theres a TON he could have if he stops being a falcon clone. easy fix? Add black shadow and make his play style like ganondorf if we are so afraid of losing a slow c. falcon clone. I personally think costumes are the way to go and have the cotumes changes tweak some things about the character so a black shadow costume for falcon making him then play like ganondorf would fix everything and we could actually get a ZELDA themed ganondorf.

And there is the ******** and moaning about him being a clone. Sakurai has already said he won't be doing alterante costumes and the idea of costumes changing play style is jsut bad anyway. Heck I bet people wouldn't even call him a clone if his specials got changed and his regular attacks generally stayed the same, for some stupid reason people only pay attetion to Special moves when calling clones, so as to not hurt his playstyle from Melee as that is the Ganondorf I want back. But seriously regular attacks, grabs, and throws from Melee are absolutly fine, expect for that effing Up Tilt, as changing his Special up won't change his play style to much and would probably make him better if he did get a projectile. But for the love of all that is mighty leave his regular attacks from Melee the same. ;-;

 

[Hotfeet444]

You never answered my question. :L Are you still doing the other requests you took not that long ago? As I remember Renzor requesting Jhoto Trainer, so I'm wondering if you are still gonna do Shiki?

Anyways I mostly want his attacks, grabs, and throws from Melee back, except for that Up Tilt that thing needs to be fixed, however I wouldn't mind his Specials being changed to where he throws a trident for a Neutral Special and pulls out a sword for his Side Special. But his play style from Melee in general as great and I mostly want to see that kind of Ganondorf again in regards to speed and playstyle.

To answer your question...yes...when I'll get around to it since I deserve a rest...I dunno.

 

[mimgrim]

Ganondorf being Luigified would actually make a ton of sense. Just as long as he keeps the Warlock Punch and Dark Dive.

I think those are the moves people want changed the most. lol

 

[CalumG]

And there is the *****ing and moaning about him being a clone. Sakurai has already said he won't be doing alterante costumes and the idea of costumes changing play style is jsut bad anyway. Heck I bet people wouldn't even call him a clone if his specials got changed and his regular attacks generally stayed the same, for some stupid reason people only pay attetion to Special moves when calling clones, so as to not hurt his playstyle from Melee as that is the Ganondorf I want back. But seriously regular attacks, grabs, and throws from Melee are absolutly fine, expect for that effing Up Tilt, as changing his Special up won't change his play style to much and would probably make him better if he did get a projectile. But for the love of all that is mighty leave his regular attacks from Melee the same. ;-;

That's understandable really though. Special attacks are just that - a characters special aka unique attacks, whereas physical attacks are just punches, kicks and weapon swings for the most part. You take away Diddy Kong's specials and he's just a monkey throwing his fists around. You take away Sonic's specials and he's lost his Spin Attack and Homing Attack, the two things that define his very playstyle both in and out of Smash Bros. I don't think people truly hate Ganondorf's playstyle, but I do think they're resentful that his special moves aren't special at all; they don't represent him or anything unique about him. So yeah, I don't doubt that people would hate on Ganondorf less if he had changed specials, but can you blame people for that? I sure know that when I first heard of Ganondorf in Melee all those years ago, I was expecting a brutish character (like his Melee playstyle) with some powerful magical attacks - not a purple Falcon Punch.

So yeah, I guess in a way you and I agree - Ganondorf needs new specials, everything else is secondary.

 

[mimgrim]

That's understandable really though. Special attacks are just that - a characters special aka unique attacks, whereas physical attacks are just punches, kicks and weapon swings for the most part. You take away Diddy Kong's specials and he's just a monkey throwing his fists around. You take away Sonic's specials and he's lost his Spin Attack and Homing Attack, the two things that define his very playstyle both in and out of Smash Bros. I don't think people truly hate Ganondorf's playstyle, but I do think they're resentful that his special moves aren't special at all; they don't represent him or anything unique about him. So yeah, I don't doubt that people would hate on Ganondorf less if he had changed specials, but can you blame people for that? I sure know that when I first heard of Ganondorf in Melee all those years ago, I was expecting a brutish character (like his Melee playstyle) with some powerful magical attacks - not a purple Falcon Punch.

So yeah, I guess in a way you and I agree - Ganondorf needs new specials, everything else is secondary.

Well I mostly say just to give him new specials to keep the people from whining, lol. I myself don't really care about the Specials, but I admit there is a way to make new Specials benefit his playstyle further. But I will be upset if they pull the stunt a second time on Ganondorf and don't bring him back to the glory he was in Melee. I was absolutly happy with his speed and attacks in Melee and was very upset at how much he got nerfed in Brawl, going from upper-mid tier to the lowest tier. So I mostly just want his Melee playstyle back with mostly the same attacks he had in Melee, just get a new Up-Tilt as that move sucks in both games. However I don't care as much about the Specials as changing them shouldn't make his playstyle anyworse and even have the potiental to benefit it better. But gimme back Meleedorf playstyle!!!!!

 

[CalumG]

Ganondorf's Trident boomerang-throw for new special.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I think those are the moves people want changed the most. lol

So people would rather have his Falcon Kick and forward B?

 

[mimgrim]

So people would rather have his Falcon Kick and forward B?

They want those changed to. lol

 

[CalumG]

For the record, I'd actually rather Ganondorf kept his side-B, and Falcon was the one who got a new side-B. To quote what I said in another thread:

Change his Side-B to a 'boost' (complete with F-Zero X boost sound effects) which projects him fast in the direction he's facing, causing high damage to anyone he runs into but also inflicting an amount of damage on himself as a cost to use the boost. His side B may be called 'Raptor Boost' but it certainly doesn't look like any boost I've ever seen.

I'm only half-trolling - I think the F-Zero series has its share of interesting mechanics that could be introduced (paying health to use a powerful boost, the 'spin attack' and 'side attack' introduced in F-Zero X) but alas, the fanbase would flip its **** if any actual moveset changes were given to Falcon, who's moves have been meme-fied to heaven and back. I think his Side-B is fair game though; that way Ganondorf's Flame Choke will be even more unique to his character, and Ganondorf could likewise have a few of his moves changed to further de-clone the two.

And maybe a couple of his Smashes and aerials could be changed, if only visually, so they have either a red or a flashing red/yellow glow around them, like when you do the Spin and Side attacks respectively in FZ-X. I don't know, maybe I'm blasphemous for wanting to properly tamper with a character who's been in Smash since the 64 days, but it's nice when a character's moveset is at least remotely inspired by their game of origin - I know it's a tall order with characters like Falcon and Fox who are seldom seen outside their vehicles of choice, but adaptations have been made for Smash in the past.

 

[mimgrim]

For the record, I'd actually rather Ganondorf kept his side-B, and Falcon was the one who got a new side-B. To quote what I said in another thread:

I don't really care about the special, as I have stated. I just want Ganondorf to go back to his Melee speed and attacks and throws (that Dthrow), and his Up Tilt needs to be made faster or get totally replaced for a better move. I hate that freakingly powerful super slow move that is useless unless the opponent goes through their whole shield. ._.

 

[kingmario92]

I'd rather Ganondorf be a clone of Captain Falcon.

But it makes no darn sense. What influenced them to make Ganondorf a clone of Capt. Falcon. Bowser, Mewtwo, & King Dedede (3 other villains) weren't clones, so why is The King of Evil a clone?

 

[TumblrFamous]

But it makes no darn sense. What influenced them to make Ganondorf a clone of Capt. Falcon. Bowser, Mewtwo, & King Dedede (3 other villains) weren't clones, so why is The King of Evil a clone?

mimgrim said it in a previous post. At the time of Melee, there was still time left to fill up the roster. So, Sakurai basically figured that the fillers can be clones. Basically, those characters on the sides of the Melee roster were the last additions: Dr. Mario, Falco, Pichu, Ganondorf, Young Link, and Roy. They all took on a tweaked moveset of the characters on their side (i.e. Falco and Fox, Ganondorf and Captain Falcon). They chose Ganondorf as the next best Zelda rep and made him into a clone of the closest character they could think of: it being Falcon, of course. So they made Ganondorf, gave him a tweaked version of Falcon's moveset, and bodda-bing bodda-boo.

Edit: And the three other villains were basically planned to be in Melee and Brawl. Ganondorf was a last-minute addition, so they just made him a clone.

 

[CalumG]

mimgrim said it in a previous post. At the time of Melee, there was still time left to fill up the roster. So, Sakurai basically figured that the fillers can be clones. Basically, those characters on the sides of the Melee roster were the last additions: Dr. Mario, Falco, Pichu, Ganondorf, Young Link, and Roy. They all took on a tweaked moveset of the characters on their side (i.e. Falco and Fox, Ganondorf and Captain Falcon). They chose Ganondorf as the next best Zelda rep and made him into a clone of the closest character they could think of: it being Falcon, of course. So they made Ganondorf, gave him a tweaked version of Falcon's moveset, and bodda-bing bodda-boo.

Edit: And the three other villains were basically planned to be in Melee and Brawl. Ganondorf was a last-minute addition, so they just made him a clone.

It boggles the mind though. Wario and Dedede weren't crammed into Melee last-minute because Sakurai felt it'd be an injustice to those characters... so why was he so happy to half-arse Ganondorf and give a great big middle-finger to Zelda fans? I'm sure a good portion of people were happy with Ganondorf, but honestly, I'd have preferred Sakurai to wait and include him in Brawl, if it meant doing him some proper moveset justice. It's too late now, and a lot of people have grown to accept and even love Ganondorf's moveset, but I can't help but wonder why he was okay to make such an off-canon representation of Ganondorf, yet with other characters who 'almost' made it into Melee he decided to wait specifically so he could do more justice to their character design.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

It boggles the mind though. Wario and Dedede weren't crammed into Melee last-minute because Sakurai felt it'd be an injustice to those characters... so why was he so happy to half-arse Ganondorf and give a great big middle-finger to Zelda fans? I'm sure a good portion of people were happy with Ganondorf, but honestly, I'd have preferred Sakurai to wait and include him in Brawl, if it meant doing him some proper moveset justice. It's too late now, and a lot of people have grown to accept and even love Ganondorf's moveset, but I can't help but wonder why he was okay to make such an off-canon representation of Ganondorf, yet with other characters who 'almost' made it into Melee he decided to wait specifically so he could do more justice to their character design.

Hey, he had Ganondorf at all didn't he? I think he's cooler as a Falcon clone.

 

[mimgrim]

It boggles the mind though. Wario and Dedede weren't crammed into Melee last-minute because Sakurai felt it'd be an injustice to those characters... so why was he so happy to half-arse Ganondorf and give a great big middle-finger to Zelda fans? I'm sure a good portion of people were happy with Ganondorf, but honestly, I'd have preferred Sakurai to wait and include him in Brawl, if it meant doing him some proper moveset justice. It's too late now, and a lot of people have grown to accept and even love Ganondorf's moveset, but I can't help but wonder why he was okay to make such an off-canon representation of Ganondorf, yet with other characters who 'almost' made it into Melee he decided to wait specifically so he could do more justice to their character design.

It is because of the simmilar body structure, he has stated this. You have to admit Ganondorf has a pretty simmilar structure to Falcon. That was why Ganondorf was put in as a last minute clone, because he shared a simmilar body structure to Falcon and so he got put in as a clone because Falcon's moves didn't look bad on Ganon and visually fitted pretty nicely. How could that have made Dedede a clone? and of who? Bowser? Well now wait a second.... Dedede shooting fire.... That would be pretty cool actually. xD As for Wario... I could only imagine how bade Mario's moves would have looked on him, which is why Sakurai used Dr. Mario instead. That is probably why.

 

[CalumG]

Hey, he had Ganondorf at all didn't he? I think he's cooler as a Falcon clone.

But that's exactly what I'm saying - "he had Ganondorf at all" doesn't really say a whole lot except that he thought to include Ganondorf. He thought to include Wario too, but he decided against it as he didn't think he had enough development time and resources to do a good job of it at the time. A lot of people have grown to love Ganondorf's Smash playstyle now, but I can't help but wonder why he didn't do for Ganondorf what he did with Wario - wait it out until the next game so he could do some real justice to the character.

And also, how can you say you think he's cooler as a Falcon clone? Cooler than what? We haven't seen him in Smash as anything but a Falcon clone, so there's really nothing to be comparing him to.

EDIT: Mimgrim, I know he was included for his body structure. I've read the interviews. But normally, Sakurai has better reasons than that for including a character, and if he feels like he won't create a decent representation of a character, he'll wait it out until he thinks he can do a good job of it - hence why some characters were planned as early as the N64 days and didn't see inclusion until Brawl (or still aren't included).