Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[CrusherMania1592]

Im bored so im uploading my roster in the works not really my favorite picks to choose but i have been listening to you guys and I think this might be a good one that alot of people can agree on.
View attachment 1725
So like it? Yes? No? Maybe so? Or is there something you think could be changed?

Your roster is spot on. Only person I'm unsure about is Toon Zelda, but that's all.

 

[CalumG]

Which is, in fairness, why I distinctly said he would *not* get removed for that reason alone - it could only possibly be one of many contributing factors, including but not limited to the fact that Sakurai has made some very questionable statements about third-parties (as "guest characters", can we really be sure any third-party is eligible to return?) and the fact that there simply isn't a very high likelihood of all veterans returning. He was seen as interesting enough of a fighter to get an inclusion in the first place, but if push came to shove, which would get removed first; Sonic or Snake?

I have no doubt that Sakurai had some solid reasoning to include Snake in the first place, but I also don't doubt that he's going to have to make some tough decisions because it's just not realistic to bring back every veteran - and in such a case, do you remove the big name Nintendo characters first, or do you remove the guy who's built his name on the Playstation? Whoever gets removed, somebody is going to be disappointed (case in point: every single character removed from Melee bar Pichu), but at risk of generating controversy here and shooting myself in the foot, removing Snake would leave less people disappointed than removing Sonic, or Pokemon Trainer, or *insert any Brawl character with a unique moveset here*.

 

[TheCreator]

Which is, in fairness, why I distinctly said he would *not* get removed for that reason alone - it could only possibly be one of many contributing factors, including but not limited to the fact that Sakurai has made some very questionable statements about third-parties (as "guest characters", can we really be sure any third-party is eligible to return?) and the fact that there simply isn't a very high likelihood of all veterans returning. He was seen as interesting enough of a fighter to get an inclusion in the first place, but if push came to shove, which would get removed first; Sonic or Snake?

I have no doubt that Sakurai had some solid reasoning to include Snake in the first place, but I also don't doubt that he's going to have to make some tough decisions because it's just not realistic to bring back every veteran - and in such a case, do you remove the big name Nintendo characters first, or do you remove the guy who's built his name on the Playstation? Whoever gets removed, somebody is going to be disappointed (case in point: every single character removed from Melee bar Pichu), but at risk of generating controversy here and shooting myself in the foot, removing Snake would leave less people disappointed than removing Sonic, or Pokemon Trainer, or *insert any Brawl character here*.

Maybe not R.O.B, (jk) but you have a very good point.
The deal is though: Atm, we have no reason to believe that they were one timers, yet we have no reason not to. And as far as Veteran 3rd party characters go. I think that they're pretty high tier. They create A LOT of hype and increase sales by a ton. Odds are, if Snake and Sonic are planned, they won't be cut due to time constraints; they'll be in the game. That said, removing Sonic would be catastrophic. I don't think Sakurai considered not having Sonic the Hedgehog in this game for a moment, especially knowing that he could. But Snake is a different case. The reasons Snake is in the game are more fabricated, nobody in their right mind expected Solid Snake to be in smash bros., And I doubt he was requested very much. Not due to lack of popularity, but because nobody even thought of it. Or it possible! Yet he makes it and people go nuts and get this weird feeling. A feeling like: "Idk what the **** is going on here. But I like it." and they run with it. It's very hard not to have this feeling when seeing Snake in smash.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that, Snake didn't at all earn his place in smash, so it matters not what console his games go to. He got in as a personal favor. And I think his biggest chance at returning is the fact that he has been in the game before, AKA so the fans wouldn't lose anything.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Who remembers when it was the big thing to wonder if G&W would transition over to Brawl? So many people doubted that a total oddball like him would have returned... Yet here we are, Mr. Game & Watch and R.O.B. to boot. I doubt either of them will be lost between Brawl and SSB4.

I'm sure that, even if it means we don't get as many newcomers (or possibly why we won't have as many newcomers), Sakurai would like to save everyone possible from cuts.

 

[CalumG]

Now that you mention it, I can think of one great reason for Snake's re-inclusion: he's the go-to character that Exbocksers and Pee-Ess-Three fans go to when Smash gets brought out. You know the situation - somebody turns on Brawl for some casual matches with the bro's, and there in the corner is the one guy who either doesn't like Nintendo, doesn't trust Nintendo like they used to or has no idea who half of the cast members are. Who does that guy choose?

Without exception, it's normally Snake.

 

[FalKoopa]

I remember that pre-brawl rumour, that Ice Climbers and Game & Watch would be cut.

Reading though the last few pages..., so much Noah... (-_-)

I'm a bit surprised that he unblocked God Robert's Cousin, by the way.

 

[TheCreator]

Now that you mention it, I can think of one great reason for Snake's re-inclusion: he's the go-to character that Exbocksers and Pee-Ess-Three fans go to when Smash gets brought out. You know the situation - somebody turns on Brawl for some casual matches with the bro's, and there in the corner is the one guy who either doesn't like Nintendo, doesn't trust Nintendo like they used to or has no idea who half of the cast members are. Who does that guy choose?

Without exception, it's normally Snake.

Yeah thinking of it that way, from a marketing standpoint, and how Sakurai had to okay that with his higher office power first, (some big name ****** working for Nintendo) he reallly wouldn't have had any reason to be okay with that besides demographic. Makes sense.

 

[LaniusShrike]

It is a bit up in the air for the 3rd party characters, but I think it's encouraging that they've never been really referred to as "Guest Characters" like they do to the temporary characters in SoulCalibur.

A pity, too... I always get most attached to the characters that I know won't be in the sequels. (Link in SCII, Ezio Auditore in SCV).

In any case, in the case that Snake is thrown to the streets, I hope they preserve his unique moveset somehow, perhaps in the form of an Advance Wars character.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

I remember that pre-brawl rumour, that Ice Climbers and Game & Watch would be cut.

Reading though the last few pages..., so much Noah... (-_-)

I'm a bit surprised that he unblocked God Robert's Cousin, by the way.

Honestly, it was as simple as just asking him if he wanted to start over. I asked a few questions, and things got quickly hostile all over again.

I think that with what I said out of the way, Noah won't be as much of a problem anymore. I gotta admit, I was on his case a little more than the others here. Hopefully with him blocked, there's less of chance someone who doesn't put up with his crap will actually respond to him and instigate another one of his fits.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I remember that pre-brawl rumour, that Ice Climbers and Game & Watch would be cut.

Reading though the last few pages..., so much Noah... (-_-)

I'm a bit surprised that he unblocked God Robert's Cousin, by the way.

I think it may have only been so he could read what God Robert's Cousin said about him.

 

[TheCreator]

Just bored. Completely unrelated to anything. Even smash bros. But you know what would be cool. Mewtwo wearing Majora's mask.
Somebody PM that to Hotfeet

 

[LaniusShrike]

Just bored. Completely unrelated to anything. Even smash bros. But you know what would be cool. Mewtwo wearing Majora's mask.
Somebody PM that to Hotfeet

Majora's Mask should just be an item that possesses your character for a few seconds as you grow freaky limbs and dance around the stage slaughtering people.

It'd go well with the Fierce Diety Mask item that turns your character into an older, more developed badass version of your character who wields an insanely awesome sword that shoots energy beams.

 

[Deleted member]

This will probably be rather late by the time this is posted, but:

The "low priority junk" on Jigglypuff is a legitimate issue.

For the first time in years, we are actually given an inside look as to how Sakurai goes through Pokémon other than just statements about the process being difficult.
The only case that it doesn't seem to apply to is Pokémon Trainer due to a lot of this not being applicable at the time.

-What is the "hot" Pokémon? (As in, which Pokémon is popular and marketable.)
This is essentially what got Pikachu and Jigglypuff in the first Smash. (And before someone points out a "duh" on Pikachu, I'm speaking within context of being chosen instead of someone like the Pokémon Trainer.)
While Pikachu is still a "hot" Pokémon (how can it not? It's the mascot, after all.), Jigglypuff has fallen from its pedestal quite some time ago and hasn't quite recovered. This is why it was low priority in Brawl, and why she will very likely be low-priority again. And NO, being one of multiple older Pokémon to gain the new Fairy type does not help it's case, damn it.
Pichu (outside of being an easy clone and being a joke character) and Lucario are also examples of this, given that they have been heavily marketed since their debuts.

-Who's got a recent movie?
This is a major reason why Sakurai planned on Mewtwo in Smash 64 and why it was added in Melee. (That, and the movie options after Mewtwo in Melee's time, Lugia, Entei, and Celebi, were not that feasible in comparison). And since Mewtwo did not have a recent movie, it was low priority.
This is also clearly a big reason Lucario was in Brawl. Especially since his movie was in theaters in Japan just a few days after Sakurai "finalized" Brawl's roster. Knowing that, I have come to realize that Lucario too may likely be lower priority much like Mewtwo was in Brawl. That is, unless the fact Lucario is still a "hot" Pokémon is enough.
With Mewtwo having a very recent movie (despite it being a new Mewtwo with a brand new form), as well as Genesect co-stars, it would come to reason that Sakurai is looking at those two Pokémon this time around as potential additions.

-Who will be central to conversations about Pokémon going forward?
Within context of what Sakurai said, this is referring to looking at the anime, movies, etc.
This is where even someone like Meowth can be seen as a possible candidate, given that he's the second most prominent Pokémon in the anime after Pikachu.
Jigglypuff? Not so much. Or at least at this point in time.

-What is unique about them? Where do they fit in next to everything else? What do they have?
This is so far the only place where Jigglypuff has something going for it. But then again, a lot of Jiggly's attributes are based off Kirby. At the very least, her special attacks are quite unique especially for their comedic value.


When all this is attributed, the "Original 12" excuse is nothing but a single warrior against an entire army of equal skill.
Not saying Jigglypuff is as good as gone, but pretty much that it shouldn't be a surprise if she is due to being out-prioritized.

This is precisely why I feel Snake is going to stay. Do you guys really think Sakurai would straight up tell his friend to screw off like that? I would surely think not.

Snake being removed doesn't instantly mean he's telling Kojima to screw off, though.

It could be a multitude of reasons;
Sakurai and Kojima could simply have made an agreement for Brawl only, just like the case of Gon in Tekken 3.
Konami could be against Snake being in Smash 4 for whatever reason. (Most plausible reason would be that the company would happen to be on bad terms at the time.)
Kojima could be satisfied that Snake was in Brawl to begin with and not seek to have him in Smash again.
Nintendo's higher ups could actually actively step in and not allow Sakurai to add Snake again.
Sakurai could explain to Kojima that Snake no longer fits within Smash's style due to the direction Smash 4 is going. (Kind of a bs reason with easy counterpoints, but still possible)
etc.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

I think it may have only been so he could read what God Robert's Cousin said about him.

This was prior to what I said to him. He did unblock me under the idea that we could be "friends" (which I gave warning would likely not happen based on our previous interactions), but things quickly fell apart after that.

In regards to what I said, there's three kinds of people in this world: People who have thought the same things at one point or another, Noah, and liars.

When all this is attributed, the "Original 12" excuse is nothing but a single warrior against an entire army of equal skill.
Not saying Jigglypuff is as good as gone, but pretty much that it shouldn't be a surprise if she is due to being out-prioritized.

If you don't mind me asking, do you personally have something against Jigglypuff's inclusion? I'm not saying that those who see her as likely to be cut are suddenly purely biased against Jiggs, I'd just like to know why you're one of the most verbal--passionate even--about it.

I'm just not convinced that Jigglypuff is held in such low priority when the fact is that she still made it over a potential 16% of the roster (assuming every character planned was actually in), more so in that Sakurai has made his stance about veterans to be rather important.

Whether it's a minor character or a character that is one of the most highly skilled and most played, if that character is removed from the game, the people who live for that character in Smash Bros. are going to have their feelings hurt. I think we have to really consider that, so I take a very serious, hard look at that and have empathy for the players who look for these type of characters when we're making these decisions.

I'm honestly not looking to make a battle out of this. You're just making this seem a little more black and white than it really is, in my opinion.

 

[Bajef8]

I'll try and vouch for Golden, cuz I believe we have the exact same thoughts on Jiggs. It's not we don't like her, or we think she shouldn't be included (I definitely want her in), we're just thinking it shouldn't come as a surprise if she didn't make it. She has Original 12 status, yes, and she's also very relevant and iconic to the Smash series. Unfortunately, she is really not a big deal in Pokemon at all anymore, she was low priority in Brawl's development, plus she's a very minor character in her series, which bodes horribly for Pokemon since there are so many of them. I personally think she should stay and has every right to stay. But I can see her being cut, and I wouldn't be shocked if she was.

 

[Deleted member]

If you don't mind me asking, do you personally have something against Jigglypuff's inclusion? I'm not saying that those who see her as likely to be cut are suddenly purely biased against Jiggs, I'd just like to know why you're one of the most verbal--passionate even--about it.

I'm just not convinced that Jigglypuff is held in such low pri.ority when the fact is that she still made it over a potential 16% of the roster (assuming every character planned was actually in), more so in that Sakurai has made his stance about veterans to be rather important.

Because one has to be against Jigglypuff to see her situation for how it really is.

In other words, no, I am not against her inclusion, and no, I'm not saying she's likely to be cut. What I'm saying she's likely to be is low-priority Just. Like. In. Brawl. And that being cut shouldn't be surprising if it happens, which many people can't seem to fathom such a thing happening.
And yes, I do mind you asking, as it's pretty much telling me that you didn't pay attention as to why I'm saying she's likely to be low-priority again, which includes why she was low-priority in Brawl to begin with as well as Mewtwo.
As for that "potential 16%" that were scrapped while Jiggly wasn't? They were all expendable low-priority characters too. In fact, other than Mewtwo, they were much more expendable than Jigglypuff.
Jigglypuff and Mewtwo's situations were pretty much equal, outside of the Mastermind of Mirage Pokémon OVA, which strangely didn't make Mewtwo less expendable.

Though I guess when you're an easy add-on with miniscule changes from Melee in terms of model and using animations directly ported from Melee (evident with Jiggs' Air Dodge animation), you'd be a bigger priority than someone who needs quite a bit of work done in a shortened amount of time.

EDIT: And while Sakurai does take veterans seriously because of fans, it doesn't mean he isn't prepared to shave them off if push comes to shove. It's all a matter of which characters are the least expendable.
Do I think Jigglypuff will be cut just because she's expendable? No. But I do feel that Jigglypuff will have the proverbial axe over her head that will come crashing down should Sakurai not be able to include everyone he plans, and there are no characters more expendable to cut first.

 

[CalumG]

If I could also point out to some people who think otherwise - Jigglypuff being announced as a Fairy-type doesn't actually affect her likelihood or relevance, either positively or negatively. We haven't even got a confirmation of whether Jigglypuff is in the Kalos region Pokedex; we just know that Jigglypuff was used as an example of the types of Pokemon that will be inheriting the Fairy-type. We've seen no footage of Jigglypuff in action for X/Y, and quite frankly her new-found Fairy-type probably wouldn't affect Jiggypuff's portrayal in Smash Bros. one way or another anyway.

 

[Bajef8]

If I could also point out to some people who think otherwise - Jigglypuff being announced as a Fairy-type doesn't actually affect her likelihood or relevance, either positively or negatively. We haven't even got a confirmation of whether Jigglypuff is in the Kalos region Pokedex; we just know that Jigglypuff was used as an example of the types of Pokemon that will be inheriting the Fairy-type. We've seen no footage of Jigglypuff in action for X/Y, and quite frankly her new-found Fairy-type probably wouldn't affect Jiggypuff's portrayal in Smash Bros. one way or another anyway.

I've been saying this for so long, but it's usually dismissed. Her becoming a Fairy-type means nothing and in no way affects her relevancy to Pokemon.

 

[Reznor]

This will probably be rather late by the time this is posted, but:

The "low priority junk" on Jigglypuff is a legitimate issue.

For the first time in years, we are actually given an inside look as to how Sakurai goes through Pokémon other than just statements about the process being difficult.
The only case that it doesn't seem to apply to is Pokémon Trainer due to a lot of this not being applicable at the time.

-What is the "hot" Pokémon? (As in, which Pokémon is popular and marketable.)
This is essentially what got Pikachu and Jigglypuff in the first Smash. (And before someone points out a "duh" on Pikachu, I'm speaking within context of being chosen instead of someone like the Pokémon Trainer.)
While Pikachu is still a "hot" Pokémon (how can it not? It's the mascot, after all.), Jigglypuff has fallen from its pedestal quite some time ago and hasn't quite recovered. This is why it was low priority in Brawl, and why she will very likely be low-priority again. And NO, being one of multiple older Pokémon to gain the new Fairy type does not help it's case, damn it.
Pichu (outside of being an easy clone and being a joke character) and Lucario are also examples of this, given that they have been heavily marketed since their debuts.

-Who's got a recent movie?
This is a major reason why Sakurai planned on Mewtwo in Smash 64 and why it was added in Melee. (That, and the movie options after Mewtwo in Melee's time, Lugia, Entei, and Celebi, were not that feasible in comparison). And since Mewtwo did not have a recent movie, it was low priority.
This is also clearly a big reason Lucario was in Brawl. Especially since his movie was in theaters in Japan just a few days after Sakurai "finalized" Brawl's roster. Knowing that, I have come to realize that Lucario too may likely be lower priority much like Mewtwo was in Brawl. That is, unless the fact Lucario is still a "hot" Pokémon is enough.
With Mewtwo having a very recent movie (despite it being a new Mewtwo with a brand new form), as well as Genesect co-stars, it would come to reason that Sakurai is looking at those two Pokémon this time around as potential additions.

-Who will be central to conversations about Pokémon going forward?
Within context of what Sakurai said, this is referring to looking at the anime, movies, etc.
This is where even someone like Meowth can be seen as a possible candidate, given that he's the second most prominent Pokémon in the anime after Pikachu.
Jigglypuff? Not so much. Or at least at this point in time.

-What is unique about them? Where do they fit in next to everything else? What do they have?
This is so far the only place where Jigglypuff has something going for it. But then again, a lot of Jiggly's attributes are based off Kirby. At the very least, her special attacks are quite unique especially for their comedic value.


When all this is attributed, the "Original 12" excuse is nothing but a single warrior against an entire army of equal skill.
Not saying Jigglypuff is as good as gone, but pretty much that it shouldn't be a surprise if she is due to being out-prioritized.



Snake being removed doesn't instantly mean he's telling Kojima to screw off, though.

It could be a multitude of reasons;
Sakurai and Kojima could simply have made an agreement for Brawl only, just like the case of Gon in Tekken 3.
Konami could be against Snake being in Smash 4 for whatever reason. (Most plausible reason would be that the company would happen to be on bad terms at the time.)
Kojima could be satisfied that Snake was in Brawl to begin with and not seek to have him in Smash again.
Nintendo's higher ups could actually actively step in and not allow Sakurai to add Snake again.
Sakurai could explain to Kojima that Snake no longer fits within Smash's style due to the direction Smash 4 is going. (Kind of a bs reason with easy counterpoints, but still possible)
etc.

whats your thoughts on how Jiggs got into the past 2 games?

I say Jiggs chances aren't high but they aren't too low either

 

[Thirdkoopa]

...did this thread get dumber or something? Not to insult but holy mother of, 50 pages since I last came in. What?

Anyways, about Jigglypuff. There's something to consider (And it applies to the Poke's even more, as Marth was given a redesign, but the Poke's are never changed much) - It's the fact that her data is really easy to shove into the game. If you know anything about game design and say it wouldn't be, you need to stop lying. This was proven in Brawl (Which I still have a theory about the Forbidden seven and many other things but blah blah blah it's not as interesting as you would think PM me if you want details)

Another fact is he doesn't put as much weight into the "Original Twelve" as much as people thinks he does. This has been proven by people who talk about the lease. I mean, okay, original eight obviously because they're all protagonists of still on-going series, a mother rep sure, Luigi is arguably one of the most recognizable characters of Nintendo, and Captain Falcon I guess... which is most of them, but you still have to remember, Ness was planned to be cut at least in Melee (Brawl we can debate over all day, but once again, people who worked on the game should probably come full-out and just open their mouth) - I'm not saying he doesn't hold weight into the Original 12, I'm saying he cares about veterans in general, that's it

I will agree with most of your post, Golden, but how can you say type changing doesn't do anything when the 6th gen hasn't even came out? I mean, I will agree that it won't affect as much if they already plan to keep/cut jigglypuff, but they have inspiration for new moves. We know they aren't scared to change veterans and this was showcased with Pit and several other times throughout the smash series. It's not about just the character - A lot comes into moveset, and that's one thing Jigglypuff might have now to a point that we don't even know. Another factor is asides from blatant clones, Mewtwo was the only original character kept away from Brawl. All other clones in Brawl were at least changed a bit, or original movesets brought back (though that was predicted) - Jigglypuff already has one of the more original movesets in Smash, so it's not just the Pichu case where they think she's a joke. She does contribute something... even if it's small.

That's all I've got for now, but it's nice seeing something insightful here. There's some things that aren't being considered, but many people are way too quick to pin a bunch of things on Sakurai when Sakurai is one man and at least the first Smash 64 was worked on with 81 people, with the others being more. There's also what GameFreak will say, especially since I'm given reason to believe they hand out more than Intelligent Systems. Unlike the lease of Brawl being up though with the contract being up, I don't have sources nor any other way to know that myself, so I could be completely wrong.

As for Snake being told to off, yeah, if he's cut it probably doesn't mean anything for their friendship in the end.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Am... Agreeing with Golden there actually.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Am... Agreeing with Golden there actually.

Yeah, as I said, I agree with him for the most part as well. His points are valid even if they're not 100% fact. I can live with that.

 

[CalumG]

I'll get a lot of shtick for it but I'll happily admit to being one of the biggest advocates of Jigglypuff's removal. At the end of the day, I don't expect there to be anything over 45 characters roster-wise in Smash 4 (transformations excluded) and I don't want the amount of Newcomers to be in any way limited by the returning Veterans. That's not to say I want them to make frivolous cuts here-there-and-everywhere, but if they cut, say, 4 of the widely-considered "lower priority" characters from the Brawl roster I can't say I'd be particularly upset. If I wanted to play Brawl, I'd play Brawl - I'm expecting a new game out of Smash 4 and if that means being unable to please everybody, I'm completely okay with that.

 

[Reznor]

what I don't get is why people think the low priority characters from brawl are going to be the same low priority characters for smash4 things change Villager is proof of that

just saying being low priority in the past doesn't make them automatically low priority for in the future

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Sakurai will be looking at characters that are popular not only from their origin series, but from Smash more specifically. Hence why I believe characters like Ike will not be cut.

Remember, No one is directly getting cut, it is just a matter of adding as many characters as possible. Then we have to consider who would be assumed as low priority.

Now assuming Jigglypuff doesn't see a sudden rise in popularity, I think it would be safe to say that Ike will get in before her, and she will again be lower priority. Based off of Ike's popularity in both Fire Emblem and Smash Bros., i'd say Ike is safe.

I'm quite honestly not sure who is likely to be low priority. As others have went over, I'd like to think that characters that have had 2 or more reappearances will be safe. This would include Falco, G&W, Ganondorf, Zelda, etc... The only characters that I would place as low priority off the top of my head would be Jigglypuff, and Toon Link.

Characters from Brawl are a little different. Ike is unique besides Counter. Lucas may have similar moves to Ness, however he plays much differently. I mean really, only his specials are the same. Wolf is the most unique Star Fox character out of the three. Olimar has been confirmed. Dedede and Meta Knight are both extremely iconic and unique from the cast. Diddy Kong is unique and extremely iconic. R.O.B is the wtf character, so I don't see him going.

As I said. I think the only true low priority characters will be Jigglypuff and Toon Link. Maybe Lucario if his overall popularity doesn't save him.

 

[Curious Villager]

What we need to remember is just because a character may be low priority doesn't mean that they will all definitely be cut. They are just that, low priority, characters that are just at the back of the queue in favor of the higher priority characters, yes they are a bit on the shaky ground but they can still make it. The only obstacle they need to overcome is time. It's not the same as characters who aren't planned at all. So long as we don't get a Sonic-like addition and Sakurai has time left for some more additions once he got the bigger priority characters out of the way, I'm confident that the likes of Jigglypuff, Lucario and Toon Link (or whatever child Link would be his replacement if he were to be replaced) would make it in just fine, even if they are far back at the priority list.

But that's just my point of view really. :/

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

On a side note, because I am using my laptop instead of my PC, I don't have access to the new Roster Maker Icons for any of the characters shown off so far. If somebody has the icons, it would be incredibly helpful and appreciated if you could quote this post, and post the icons. Thanks!

 

[Opossum]

Im bored so im uploading my roster in the works not really my favorite picks to choose but i have been listening to you guys and I think this might be a good one that alot of people can agree on.
View attachment 1725
So like it? Yes? No? Maybe so? Or is there something you think could be changed?

Literally the only thing bad I can say about this is that it should have Ridley. Other than that, this is a roster I would love to death.

 

[CalumG]

Im bored so im uploading my roster in the works not really my favorite picks to choose but i have been listening to you guys and I think this might be a good one that alot of people can agree on.
View attachment 1725
So like it? Yes? No? Maybe so? Or is there something you think could be changed?

Hahaha, I love how I (jokingly) suggested the Phantom as a playable Zelda character the other day and, sure enough, now it's showing up in rosters. xD

All amusement aside that's a pretty solid roster. I'd personally probably replace Snake with Pac-Man and add Ridley in the place of either Wolf/Toon Link/Jigglypuff (none of which I'd care if they weren't coming back in Smash 4), but those personal choices aside I can't point out any glaring flaws.

 

[LaniusShrike]

I actually am surprised whenever I see Toon Zelda in rosters in any form except Tetra... that's how she stands out, and that really is her default persona.

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

Which is, in fairness, why I distinctly said he would *not* get removed for that reason alone - it could only possibly be one of many contributing factors, including but not limited to the fact that Sakurai has made some very questionable statements about third-parties (as "guest characters", can we really be sure any third-party is eligible to return?) and the fact that there simply isn't a very high likelihood of all veterans returning. He was seen as interesting enough of a fighter to get an inclusion in the first place, but if push came to shove, which would get removed first; Sonic or Snake?

I have no doubt that Sakurai had some solid reasoning to include Snake in the first place, but I also don't doubt that he's going to have to make some tough decisions because it's just not realistic to bring back every veteran - and in such a case, do you remove the big name Nintendo characters first, or do you remove the guy who's built his name on the Playstation? Whoever gets removed, somebody is going to be disappointed (case in point: every single character removed from Melee bar Pichu), but at risk of generating controversy here and shooting myself in the foot, removing Snake would leave less people disappointed than removing Sonic, or Pokemon Trainer, or *insert any Brawl character with a unique moveset here*.

I definitely understand he as a third party character is in a likely position to go, that i wont argue. But i dont think people should count sonic as safe based on something we have no precedence for. There is no reason as of now to believe that supposed allegiance towards nintendo will play a part in snakes removal, sakurai has gone against that before and he knows fans enjoyed snake, so theres more saying that he might do it again. Id say they are both a 50/50 shot at this point, we dont know if third parties will return and sonic has just as good of a chance of disappearing as snake does. Any removal will ruffle some feathers regardless and thats why sakurai mentions it to perhaps soften the blow if it comes to that, but im willing to bet sakurai would wait till the last minute to even tell us so he can avoid being bombarded by sonic fans in that case, by then we would be too occupied with the game itself.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Here's my roster again.

Thoughts?

If I cut any characters, Jigglypuff, Roy and Toon Link would get the axe. Other than that, I'm not entirely open to cutting anybody else.

 

[Opossum]

Here's my roster again.

Thoughts?

If I cut any characters, Jigglypuff, Roy and Toon Link would get the axe. Other than that, I'm not entirely open to cutting anybody else.

The only thing I could even say is that personally I prefer Isaac over Shulk, but this is definitely one of my favorite rosters. 9.9/10 from me.

 

[Deleted member]

whats your thoughts on how Jiggs got into the past 2 games?

I say Jiggs chances aren't high but they aren't too low either

With Melee, it was mainly because there was no real reason to even think of getting rid of her.
She was still fresh as a promotional Pokémon.
Brawl, it was simply a matter of there being more expendable characters that could be shaved off before her when push came to shove.

In Smash 4, unless those expendable characters are planned once again or newer expendable characters are planned, Jiggly's got less "scapegoats" if you will. The only one that's arguably lower than her outside of the already cut expendables (sans Mewtwo) is Toon Link.

 

[FalKoopa]

Here's my roster again.

Thoughts?

If I cut any characters, Jigglypuff, Roy and Toon Link would get the axe. Other than that, I'm not entirely open to cutting anybody else.

Only needs Isaac, imo. Then I'd love this roster to death.

 

[Deleted member]

I will agree with most of your post, Golden, but how can you say type changing doesn't do anything when the 6th gen hasn't even came out? I mean, I will agree that it won't affect as much if they already plan to keep/cut jigglypuff, but they have inspiration for new moves. We know they aren't scared to change veterans and this was showcased with Pit and several other times throughout the smash series. It's not about just the character - A lot comes into moveset, and that's one thing Jigglypuff might have now to a point that we don't even know. Another factor is asides from blatant clones, Mewtwo was the only original character kept away from Brawl. All other clones in Brawl were at least changed a bit, or original movesets brought back (though that was predicted) - Jigglypuff already has one of the more original movesets in Smash, so it's not just the Pichu case where they think she's a joke. She does contribute something... even if it's small.

I'm going to go ahead and stop you right there to say this:
I said that being one of many older Pokémon to become Fairy type means nothing for her chances and isn't a case for relevancy like some people like to claim. Never brought up change in moveset, which is irrelevant to the point I was making.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Only needs Isaac, imo. Then I'd love this roster to death.

Thanks! Isaac was definitely considered. Once I get the new icons on my laptop, i'll probably produce a very similar roster to this one, but with Isaac in place of Roy.

Hate to double post, but here is something I just noticed.

In the reveal trailer, at about 1:25, Pit launches himself off the platform with what appears to be a new up b.

Now, I know this is nowhere near enough evidence to support this theory, but what are our thoughts on Pit not having his old up b (which was based on Palutena's magic no less) because Palutena is a fighter? I know this is probably a really dumb theory. I'm just throwing it out there.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I'm going to go ahead and stop you right there to say this:
I said that being one of many older Pokémon to become Fairy type means nothing for her chances and isn't a case for relevancy like some people like to claim. Never brought up change in moveset, which is irrelevant to the point I was making.

Oh, okay.

It doesn't do anything to chances, but I wouldn't be so sure on relevancy yet. Not for this game (for obvious reasons). THough, I will say this, it doesn't hurt to say the least.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Im bored so im uploading my roster in the works not really my favorite picks to choose but i have been listening to you guys and I think this might be a good one that alot of people can agree on.
View attachment 1725
So like it? Yes? No? Maybe so? Or is there something you think could be changed?

I really love this roster. I would only say replace Starfy for Ridley, but that's already said and done. And I LOVE the Phantom/Toon Zelda idea. A fast, nimble fighter like Toon Link, and then a sluggish powerhouse. Love it.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Now, I know this is nowhere near enough evidence to support this theory, but what are our thoughts on Pit not having his old up b (which was based on Palutena's magic no less) because Palutena is a fighter? I know this is probably a really dumb theory. I'm just throwing it out there.

Actually, you're thinking backwards. Technically speaking, the old version is probably based on Pit using the Pegasus Wings or Angel's Feather to gain flight, especially considering in Brawl his specials were mainly based on the Three Sacred Treasures. Considering his incarnation in Smash 4 is based on Kid Icarus: Uprising, it would make more sense if the Power of Flight was being utilized there instead.

Regardless though, it is a rather moot point. While it's true Palutena can use the Power of Flight to grant Pit the ability to fly, other gods like Viridi can also do the same. However, considering how much canon is screwed with Super Smash Bros., it could simply be a brief hand wave or whatever. Kind of like how Ness and Lucas being able to learn normally incapable PSI abilities is hand waved by stating they've learn those attacks from Paula/Poo/Kumatora before joining Super Smash Bros.