Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[Deleted member]

It goes nowhere because you clearly hate Falco.

EDIT: @Calum: Except that "three characters for the price of one" clearly states that he counts them as three separate playable. Just that they are within a set. In which 1 = 3.

Think of it this way; if it came to counting how many characters are playable, then the three are listed separately (as are Sheik and Zero Suit Samus).

If it came to counting how many "slots" a series has, they are listed as one. (Same with Sheik and Z.S. Samus).

 

[CalumG]

It goes nowhere because you clearly hate Falco.

EDIT: @Calum: Except that "three characters for the price of one" clearly states that he counts them as three separate playable. Just that they are within a set. In which 1 = 3.

Think of it this way; if it came to counting how many characters are playable, then the three are listed separately (as are Sheik and Zero Suit Samus).

If it came to counting how many "slots" a series has, they are listed as one. (Same with Sheik and Z.S. Samus).

That's what we were debating - whether or not Pokemon Trainer counts as one character in terms of representation, which he pretty much clearly does. "Three characters for the price of one" as in "Three characters development-wise but one character on the roster". Mimgrim was trying to use Pokemons alleged six roster spots as some kind of proof that Starfox is likely to get a fourth representative.

 

[TumblrFamous]

It goes nowhere because you clearly hate Falco.

And with that, this discussion is over.

 

[MagnesD3]

It goes nowhere because you clearly hate Falco.

EDIT: @Calum: Except that "three characters for the price of one" clearly states that he counts them as three separate playable. Just that they are within a set. In which 1 = 3.

Think of it this way; if it came to counting how many characters are playable, then the three are listed separately (as are Sheik and Zero Suit Samus).

If it came to counting how many "slots" a series has, they are listed as one. (Same with Sheik and Z.S. Samus).

Dude I love falco, just not in smash, they just never made him interesting enough playstyle wise.

 

[mimgrim]

no just because you make something doesn't mean it can be what ever you want it to be and since you don't seem to under stand that with art I have to use a real world example
If I bake a Cake and call it a Pizza is it a Pizza

You could if you wanted to. It's your creation, so call it whatever the hell you want and say whatever you want about it. But this is also entirely different from waht Sakurai said about Brawl having 39 characters. He didn't call Smash Bros a entry in the Mario games or Zelda games. He clearly stated he consideres Brawl to have 39 characters and it is his preogitive to say that because the game is his creation. Whenever the creator states something about their creations, espically when it something like them considering X game they created has X characters, then that statement becaomes the truth because it is their creation and any statement they make on it cannot be refuted because again it is their creation and they have to right to say whatever the hell they want on it and would in no way be lying or contradicing as it is their creation.

 

[Reznor]

Dude I love falco, just not in smash, they just never made him interesting enough playstyle wise.

he and Wolf are just slightly different Foxs but the slight difference
so if Falco is boring in smash so is Wolf

 

[mimgrim]

Using Sakurai's general manner of speech (his tendency to waffle with his words and use uncertain terms like "could" or "I guess") to try and disprove it is not really a legitimate argument. What is a legitimate argument is that he says "Three characters for the price of one". I don't think there's any doubt as to what that can mean - that although Pokemon Trainer is three characters in some sense, they were specifically designed to function under the umbrella of one character. That's pretty much the entire point of the character, and if you can't see that then I really don't see why we're even debating this.

Sheik and Zelda, at the very least, have seperate pages on the Dojo and can be played seperately from one another. Pokemon Trainer doesn't even have that, and you'd be suffering as a player if you tried to exclusively play as one of the three Pokemon. Same can be said for Zero Suit. If Pokemon Trainer is three characters, why don't each of the three have separate Dojo entries when Zero Suit/Samus do, and so do Zelda/Shiek?

Gah didn't see this. Anyway Golden said it much better then what I could have said. They are 3 seperate characters.

 

[TumblrFamous]

You know, Golden? You're right. I think I'm done bringing up the StarFox discussion since clearly everyone wants it to stop.

Fixed it for ya. Looking out for you, buddy.

 

[CalumG]

Gah didn't see this. Anyway Golden said it much better then what I could have said. They are 3 seperate characters.

You are aware Golden pretty much disagreed with everything you said right?

Think of it this way; if it came to counting how many characters are playable, then the three are listed separately (as are Sheik and Zero Suit Samus).

If it came to counting how many "slots" a series has, they are listed as one. (Same with Sheik and Z.S. Samus).

 

[MagnesD3]

he and Wolf are just slightly different Foxs but the slight difference
so if Falco is boring in smash so is Wolf

Are you kidding me wolf has so much love and time put into him, he is a very unique character, they did a great job with him, (although id like some changes to his b down but whatever) he was done perfectly, falco just feels way to samey just stiffer.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Why call him Red? There are other versions too (Blue, Green, Yellow) and that's only one of the many optional pre set names. It makes sense just to call him Pokemon Trainer.

 

[MagnesD3]

Why call him Red? There are other versions too (Blue, Green, Yellow) and that's only one of the many optional pre set names. It makes sense just to call him Pokemon Trainer.

I call him red because he is Iconic and is the most known pokemon trainer of all time, he also owns all of the pokemon that pokemon trainer has and the pokemon trainer model used is red. (btw id love if blue was added in ssb4 as a new character with 3 pokemon he owned in the game.)

 

[Deleted member]

How does expressing how people are stupid just because they voted Falco more than Wolf on the pre-Melee poll show any sign that you "love" Falco?

 

[mimgrim]

You are aware Golden pretty much disagreed with everything you said right?

You do see the if part in that statement correct? But when has it even come down to that? Sakurai has said he considers Brawl to have 39 characters despite having 35 character slots.

 

[the smash nerd]

why is Zero suit samus her own character?

4 3rd parties is way to much
Dixie has more of a chance than King.K Rool
as much as I dislike Lucario he makes more sense than genesect

yes 4 3rd parties = too much 3 is good

 

[Flying walrus]

Thinking about it now and reading the comments, Krystal seems a lot less likely to me. And to be clear, I originally included her on my roster because I logically saw her as a candidate, not because of any weird sexual fetish :/

Though I still think it's very
possible Wolf will be cut. Fox is obviously already in. Falco is a two time veteran, so I think he's safe. But since Brawl Star Fox has released one game, and even then it was a remake. As opposed to between Melee and Brawl, when it released three games, which gave the three character slot more justification. As it stands, I don't think Star Fox will get more than two slots.

My two cents.

 

[Reznor]

You could if you wanted to. It's your creation, so call it whatever the hell you want and say whatever you want about it. But this is also entirely different from waht Sakurai said about Brawl having 39 characters. He didn't call Smash Bros a entry in the Mario games or Zelda games. He clearly stated he consideres Brawl to have 39 characters and it is his preogitive to say that because the game is his creation. Whenever the creator states something about their creations, espically when it something like them considering X game they created has X characters, then that statement becaomes the truth because it is their creation and any statement they make on it cannot be refuted because again it is their creation and they have to right to say whatever the hell they want on it and would in no way be lying or contradicing as it is their creation.

it doesn't matter if its your creation though if there is science and logic put into it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizza
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cake
saying a cake is a pizza doesn't make sense you there are even laws saying you can't do this Taco Bell said their taco was beef and they got sued because it wasn't even though they made it
another example okay if I have a child this is my creation it can be what ever I want so if I want him to be a dog then hes a dog Science doesn't matter because I made him (this one is just for fun but can be a real example)

just saying it doesn't matter if Sakurai says there 39 characters when the game shows 35

 

[CalumG]

You do see the if part in that statement correct? But when has it even come down to that? Sakurai has said he considers Brawl to have 39 characters despite having 35 character slots.

Yes. Pokemon is three playable characters. Playable. I've never doubted that there are technically 39 characters in Brawl, but again I must point you to the Dojo, where for all intents and purposes Sakurai treats the Pokemon Trainer as one character from a representation standpoint. They may be three characters technically, they may be three separate characters within the context of Pokemon, they may be three characters from a development standpoint and they may be three characters in seemingly every way, but you only need to look at the way Sakurai talks of Pokemon Trainer to see that he treats it as one character from a representation standpoint - or "one slot on the roster", as much as I hate to use that kind of terminology.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

People have the strangest logic when it comes to cuts.

 

[MagnesD3]

How does expressing how people are stupid just because they voted Falco more than Wolf on the pre-Melee poll show any sign that you "love" Falco?

Because any star fox fan should have more of an interest in wolf, the guy is a badass, he is the rival of the star fox team and star fox fans should know how awesome he is, it kills me that people put falco over wolf when wolf is so much cooler and way more important, i love falco too but he doesnt rival wolf o' donnel the leader of the Star Wolf team. Thats pretty much it.

 

[shinhed-echi]

And even has a spin-off manga dedicated to him, his past, and his absence in-between 64 and Adventures.

Honestly, I'm getting real sick of it to the point that I'm considering going anti-Krystal again.

I need to read that. I really really do.


And yeah, patterns are stupid.
If we go by pattern, Brawl should have had:

-More than 5 Mario characters.
-More than 4/5 Zelda characters
-No cuts
-3-4 Fire Emblem characters
-No new DK rep
-No new Earthbound rep
-No new Kirby reps
etc

 

[Reznor]

People have the strangest logic when it comes to cuts.

because we don't want our favorite character cut no matter what

 

[TheLastJinjo]

View attachment 1677

Pushed it up to a tidy 48 by re-adding Ike, Jiggly and Wolf into the roster. The layouts gone a bit messy because of it being a quick job (characters representing the same franchise aren't necessarily near each other anymore) but overall this does look a lot more well-rounded.

• Impa and Mallo should be Assist Trophies, Mallo's never gonna be playable, and Dillon hasn't really earned his rank as an All-Star yet.
• I Don't think Tingle or Paper Mario will ever be their own franchises. MAYBE Tingle
• I'd say bring back Toon Link, the one on the train is still a different model, outfit, and person entirely. I wouldn't get rid of Yoshi because his stage had Yoshis in the background.
• There's no reason to have Zoroark over Lucario.
• I don't thin 1080 Snowboarding deserves a slot, that should be an Assist Trophy too

Your main problem is you lack the most deserving characters, in favor of characters who don't deserve to be playable at all. Add Takamaru and maybe Matthew/Issac, Starfy, and Shulk. If Snake is not coming back I'd choose Bomberman instead of Pac-Man. If you want you can add King K. Rool, but just DK & Diddy is fine too.

 

[TumblrFamous]

I need to read that. I really really do.


And yeah, patterns are stupid.
If we go by pattern, Brawl should have had:

-More than 5 Mario characters.
-More than 4/5 Zelda characters
-No cuts
-3-4 Fire Emblem characters
-No new DK rep
-No new Earthbound rep
-No new Kirby reps
etc

I agree that patterns are stupid. The only kind of pattern I follow is that the Big Three will always have the most reps.

 

[MagnesD3]

• Impa and Mallo should be Assist Trophies, Mallo's never gonna be playable, and Dillon hasn't really earned his rank as an All-Star yet.
• I Don't think Tingle or Paper Mario will ever be their own franchises. MAYBE Tingle
• I'd say bring back Toon Link, the one on the train is still a different model, outfit, and person entirely. I wouldn't get rid of Yoshi because his stage had Yoshis in the background.
• There's no reason to have Zoroark over Lucario.
• I don't thin 1080 Snowboarding deserves a slot, that should be an Assist Trophy too

Your main problem is you lack the most deserving characters, in favor of characters who don't deserve to be playable at all. Add Takamaru and maybe Matthew/Issac, Starfy, and Shulk. If Snake is not coming back I'd choose Bomberman instead of Pac-Man. If you want you can add King K. Rool, but just DK & Diddy is fine too.

Idk I think paper mario has a good shot, maybe he wont get in this time but definitely the next. He's grown in popularity and he has alot more series entries (even though we dont have a PM3....) he always seemed like a character to me sakurai would want to work on.

I agree that patterns are stupid. The only kind of pattern I follow is that the Big Three will always have the most reps.

Im curious as to what new zelda character we will get, I think we will get a new one but I cant decide who.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Why call him Red? There are other versions too (Blue, Green, Yellow) and that's only one of the many optional pre set names. It makes sense just to call him Pokemon Trainer.

Because it was the first default name of Pokemon Red and the name he has when you fight him in Generations II, IV, and V. Pokemon Trainer is a title, but not his name. Pokemon Trainer Red. We don't simply call Captain Falcon or Captain Olimar just "Captain", and I'm pretty sure nobody just says "Princess" when referring to Zelda or Peach. It's that kind of deal. Calling him Red just feels more respectful towards the character himself.

It would otherwise make as much sense to name Link "Hero of Courage", Ness "Earthbound Protagonist", and Isaac/Matthew "Venus Adept" rather than their canon names simply because you can choose for their name not to be the default ones. Fitting titles, sure, but not their actual names.

 

[mimgrim]

it doesn't matter if its your creation though if there is science and logic put into it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizza
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cake
saying a cake is a pizza doesn't make sense you there are even laws saying you can't do this Taco Bell said their taco was beef and they got sued because it wasn't even though they made it
another example okay if I have a child this is my creation it can be what ever I want so if I want him to be a dog then hes a dog Science doesn't matter because I made him (this one is just for fun but can be a real example)

just saying it doesn't matter if Sakurai says there 39 characters when the game shows 35

Except it does matter. And the examples you are giving are entirely different to. Sakurai didn't say Mario was Zelda or anything like that. The things you are arguing about are legal issues. However if you create something and aren't making a profit from it or advertising it you can call it whatever the hell you want. However when you get into where you are dealing with the legal aspect it becomes entirely different.

So basuically you are saying Sakurai should be sued because he says there are 39 characters in his game when his game only shows 35? I guess going by that logic if you jsut got Brawl you only see the starting roster meaning Brawl doesn't have 35 characters because you only see the the characters you don't have to unlock even though there are 35 slots? When it comes to something like this whatever the game creats says goes and cannot be disputed because it his creation.

 

[MagnesD3]

Because it was the first default name of Pokemon Red and the name he has when you fight him in Generations II, IV, and V. Pokemon Trainer is a title, but not his name. Pokemon Trainer Red. We don't simply call Captain Falcon or Captain Olimar just "Captain", and I'm pretty sure nobody just says "Princess" when referring to Zelda or Peach. It's the kind of deal. Calling him Red just feels more respectful towards him.

It would otherwise make as much sense to name Link "Hero of Courage", Ness "Earthbound Protagonist", and Isaac/Matthew "Venus Adept" rather than their canon names simply because you can choose for their name not to be the default ones.

Man I hope sakurai remedies this, I just dont know how he could come to the realization.

 

[Gene]

Let's just leave the Starfox characters alone...

How about that?

Pretty sure just having these guys would make the majority happy.

Pfft. I won't know happiness til my most favorite Star Fox character makes his Smash debut.

 

[CalumG]

Impa and Mallo should be Assist Trophies, Mallo's never gonna be playable, and Dillon hasn't really earned his rank as an All-Star yet.

Mallo is in the same boat as Dillon though, having had two successful outings on the 3DS store and being one of Nintendo's newer reps.

I Don't think Tingle or Paper Mario will ever be their own franchises. MAYBE Tingle

I didn't put Paper Mario in.

I'd say bring back Toon Link, the one on the train is still a different model, outfit, and person entirely. I wouldn't get rid of Yoshi because his stage had Yoshis in the background.

Toon Link was removed out of a personal distaste for having duplicate characters.

I don't thin 1080 Snowboarding deserves a slot, that should be an Assist Trophy too

That's Wave Race, not 1080 Snowboarding.

Your main problem is you lack the most deserving characters, in favor of characters who don't deserve to be playable at all. Add Takamaru and maybe Matthew/Issac, Starfy, and Shulk. If Snake is not coming back I'd choose Bomberman instead of Pac-Man. If you want you can add King K. Rool, but just DK & Diddy is fine too.

I find this to come down to opinion more than anything. You, for example, call Takamaru and Shulk deserving. I know far more people personally who have played Dillon's and Mallo's games than those who have played Murasami Castle or Xenoblade - the idea here was to go for all-stars rather than simply those who are popular among the relatively insular Smash community. Oftentimes we get so caught up in what we consider to be deserving that we don't consider how those roster choices look to the everyman, the casual gamers, the gamers who perhaps don't play as much Nintendo as they used to or even the Nintendo gamers who are only just regaining their trust for the company.

 

[Reznor]

Except it does matter. And the examples you are giving are entirely different to. Sakurai didn't say Mario was Zelda or anything like that. The things you are arguing about are legal issues. However if you create something and aren't making a profit from it or advertising it you can call it whatever the hell you want. However when you get into where you are dealing with the legal aspect it becomes entirely different.

So basuically you are saying Sakurai should be sued because he says there are 39 characters in his game when his game only shows 35? I guess going by that logic if you jsut got Brawl you only see the starting roster meaning Brawl doesn't have 35 characters because you only see the the characters you don't have to unlock even though there are 35 slots? When it comes to something like this whatever the game creats says goes and cannot be disputed because it his creation.

where did you get this logic I never said they should get sued I was just using an example that you can't just call something you create anything you want and it's not a legal issue at all (no idea why you think I meant this)

I have to use real world examples because you think a Tree can be a dog and how did we even get into this argument I forgot what started it

 

[the smash nerd]

why is snake before namco rep
Sakurai put snake in a smash bros game his favor is done

the smash game is ssbb now no snake in smash

 

[MagnesD3]

Pfft. I won't know happiness til my most favorite Star Fox character makes his Smash debut.

Go to the back and do your job slippy, dang grease monkey.

 

[the smash nerd]

Mario Vs. Sonic Vs. Mega Man is the dream match we need......i just realized that this will ALSO allow us to troll the bad part of the PSASBR fanbase that is still butthurt over Crash and Spyro not getting in.
no

lol

hahahajkd

 

[Deleted member]

Because any star fox fan should have more of an interest in wolf, the guy is a badass, he is the rival of the star fox team and star fox fans should know how awesome he is, it kills me that people put falco over wolf when wolf is so much cooler and way more important, i love falco too but he doesnt rival wolf o' donnel the leader of the Star Wolf team. Thats pretty much it.

Bear in mind that the poll was before Assault, when Wolf's popularity skyrocketed.
Wolf was not as popular, noteworthy, or even important back then as at this point in time. (And no, not even his "Can't let you do that, Star Fox!" quote can be applied, as that didn't get memetic until 2008, surprisingly after his appearance in Brawl.)
All Wolf essentially was back then was "Evil Fox".

Granted, Falco also had less to go with back then as well, but he had plenty more reason to be popular than Wolf did, making his higher number of votes on Sakurai's poll understandable and justified.



Aside from that, who in the **** are you to decide who should be more popular? Can't tell if that's a superiority complex where you feel your opinion is law or just an incredible level of sheer bias.

 

[SuperBrawler]

I think Wolf is pretty important as the leader of Star Wolf. Who else are we supposed to add? If we add any other villain, say, Pigma, it would be like putting Peppy instead of Fox.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Mallo is in the same boat as Dillon though, having had two successful outings on the 3DS store and being one of Nintendo's newer reps.



I didn't put Paper Mario in.



Toon Link was removed out of a personal distaste for having duplicate characters.



That's Wave Race, not 1080 Snowboarding.



I find this to come down to opinion more than anything. You, for example, call Takamaru and Shulk deserving. I know far more people personally who have played Dillon's and Mallo's games than those who have played Murasami Castle or Xenoblade - the idea here was to go for all-stars rather than simply those who are popular among the relatively insular Smash community. Oftentimes we get so caught up in what we consider to be deserving that we don't consider how those roster choices look to the everyman, the casual gamers, the gamers who perhaps don't play as much Nintendo as they used to or even the Nintendo gamers who are only just regaining their trust for the company.

• Removing Characters out of personal distaste or being semi-clones is not a good idea.
• Wave Race should still be an Assist Trophy, I don't know you intend to bring a speedboat into SSB and expect it to work on land, or have that character do anything else. Or why you think Wave Race is important enough to deserve a playable representative.
• As for Dillon and Mallo, and your intention to have characters that aren't relatively popular to casual audiences, Sakurai isn't marketing this game to characters that the kids of this generation recognize because they didn't play older games, he's marketing it to hardcore Nintendo fans. Also how many people play a game doesn't really influence the chances, you can ask anybody here and they will tell you Takamaru is WAY more deserving then the eShop Characters.
• If your idea was to go for All-Stars you've done the exact opposite. You are missing the All-Stars and instead you have characters that may have sold well, but they are not up there with Nintendo's best franchises at all. These are the kinds of frachises that tend to be assist trophies, Murasame and XenoBlade are more important to Nintendo than those 2 eShop titles.
• Just because a Nintendo rep is new, that doesn't make them deserving as a playable character over others or even playable at all. Maybe focus on the difference of who should be in the game and who should be playable in the game.

I don't like to have a generic roster either, but there are some characters that just don't need to be playable.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

the smash game is ssbb now no snake in smash

Got any evidence to back up that statement?

 

[Gune]

Hey guys....what exactly happened here?

 

[Flying walrus]

Basically Star Fox arguments, mostly involving Krystal and Wolf.