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Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

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Autumn ♫

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If that is your reasoning for replacing Shiek then you should go ahead and say PT has a good chance of getting cut to. That is how faulty that logic is. Zelda transforming is a important feature of her and is 99.99% safe of remaining.It's also because she's not as important as she used to be and Impa's alot more important, but I can see Sheik returning.

Uniquess does not detirmine if a character stays or not. And being a 3 or 2 time vet does matter. Falco and Wolf seem to have about equal importance to SF the difference is that one fits the "sidekick" role while the other fits the villain role. And from past results Smash has always favored the sidekick over the villain. :/ But Falco wasn't really planned for Melee until after Wolf, along with Wolf's more importance being able to fill the villian and the rival role and being more unique does make a difference. If it didn't we probably wouldn't have lost so many clones in Brawl.

I understand the reasons for him staying. But people can't seem to understand the reasons for him being cut and why he has a decent chance of being cut. I'd say he has like a 60/40 chance of being cut and staying respectivly. Yes Lucario is still popular but he is not being promoted as heavily as he was for BW2. And going by the way Sakurai seems to go off of showing the previous gen (Jaytalks explained it way better then me) it is quite plausible for him to but cut.
He's being promoted for X and Y and Pokemon Rumble too, I don't see who would really make a good replacement of Lucario sice Sakarai doesn't seem to care about representing every generation.
Ike the most popular FE lord? LOL hell no. Ike is up there, though he is strongest in the west. Marth will forever be the most popular FE lord, no expections, end of story, good by the end. I don't even think Ike is second most popular, that seems to be Roy mostly. But also popularity only goes so far.In a poll which i'm still trying to find, Ike was first and Lucina was 2nd, Marth was about in the middle. Ike also has a very unique playstyle so I don't really see him going.
Responces in Red(again)
 

MargnetMan23

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I'm sorry, I must of misheard. Can you repeat that statement please?
I think the term "cut" is a bit too umm... Light of a word for that... thing.
I will give you the veterans but the rest still stand as debatable. I wasnt saying Lucario is important because they push it in your team the whole point of pokemon is to be a trainer and take on the world with your own custom team of pokemon Im saying he is important because the fact that he still is advertised and popular and still appears in spin off's and still makes anime apearances making him a well known face to pokemon thats why im saying hes important.
*sigh* well I'm going to try to stop arguing here because basically all I'm trying to say is that he's one of the most likely characters from the brawl roster to get cut for not being too important but that's not saying much because practically everyone in brawl earned their spot. I acknowledge he is still moderately popular but still.
 

God Robert's Cousin

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To just throw my own two cents in:

Pokemon Trainer. Name him Red, since his design is the exact same as the character, Red. Red was in the following games:
  • Main character of Pokemon Red/Blue/Yellow
  • Final boss of Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal
  • Main character of Pokemon Fire Red/Leaf Green (moreso the former, but still)
  • Final boss of Pokemon Heart Gold/Soul Silver
  • One of the most powerful trainers in Black 2/White 2
Suddenly, Pokemon Trainer is pretty damn important to the series. Hell, the fact that Pokemon Trainer carries all the Kanto starters should imply that he indeed is Red. Pokemon Trainer is important for the reason that he is the prime trainer of the entire series.

Sheik. A major character of Ocarina of Time. Wouldn't we say Ocarina of Time is still important to the series? Besides being the most celebrated and universally acclaimed game of the series, it's been released and ported plenty of times. Of these include:
  • The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time for the Nintendo 64
  • One of the four games in The Legend of Zelda: Collector's Edition for the Gamecube
  • Ocarina of Time: Master Quest for Gamecube
  • The Wii's Virtual Console release
  • Ocarina of Time 3D for the 3DS
Obviously, Sheik has been in all of those. Because of this, Sheik is definitely recognizable, being on almost every Nintendo console since Ocarina of Time's existence. The fact that OoT3D is relatively recent only strengthens her relevancy even further. Between all of that and the fact that Sheik is a major part of Zelda's moveset and a big veteran of the Smash Bros. series, I'd say that Sheik is pretty much set for returning.

Onto other business:

For SSB4.
 

Opossum

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I just thought it was pronounced like that. It really shouldn't bother you as much as it does.
You're implying it bothers me at all. I'm just pointing it out so I could know why you're doing it.
 

Silverjay323

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I just realized something, she's a fairy Poke'mon now! She's more relevant than she already was.

She's being exploited in Pokemon X & Y! Guess we can mark her off the removal list
Where are Robert's Slowpoke posts when ya need 'em?
 

Gune

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I don't really think any brawl character's really going to get cut but why do you think Lucario is more likely to stay then say Wolf? Because he gets what? Decent promotion and moderately high popularity. The problem is he has pretty much NOTHING else going for him
Did I say that? No I didnt, What else does he need to stay? people beleive Ike is staying and he has less going than that why cant Lucario stay?
 

God Robert's Cousin

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Where are Robert's Slowpoke posts when ya need 'em?
As much as I'd love to whip him out, he's a little late to show today.

That, and for once I agree with Noah. Representing a brand new type of the new generation definitely brings a rise in her relevancy.
 

Silverjay323

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As much as I'd love to whip him out, he's a little late to show today.

That, and for once I agree with Noah. Representing a brand new type of the new generation definitely brings a rise in her relevancy.
And no one supported me when I used that point defend Jigglypuff not too long ago, and was immediately shot down. -_-
 

mimgrim

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If Impa does get in it will simply be as a replacement of Shiek in that Zelda would still transform into her. The transformation aspect of zelda is far to important to her character in Smash.

You pretty much ignored everything else I said about Falco so I'm jsut going to do the same thing and ignore everything you said there. :L

He got one very quick glace for XY as far as I know. I don't care about Rumble and thus don't keep up with it.

As for this so called poll. It depends on the poll really. Firstly it depends on if it was just a simple little internet poll on some kind of forum site or a big offical poll by IS or Nintendo or a magezine company and who the target audience is.

EDIT - Also I'm off for the nigh and if I get any replies back I probably won't end up repling to them due to hos fast this thread moves at night/early in the morning and it will ned up several pages back compared to when I wake up and eventually get on the comp. :/
 

MargnetMan23

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Did I say that? No I didnt, What else does he need to stay? people beleive Ike is staying and he has less going than that why cant Lucario stay?
I'd say he and Ike are sort of in the same boat, the only thing Ike has going for him that Lucario is that Fire Emblem's spots in the game aren't overcrowded yet like pokemon can potentially be. If we have 6 pokemon reps in the new game: Pikachu, Jiggs, PT, Lucario, Mewtwo, and umm I don't know... zoroark? (I REALLY doubt Zoroark's actually going to get in the new smash) That may be a little much. But in contrast if Fire Emblem got 4 characters: Marth, Ike, Chrom, and Roy that would not be too bad (Though I'm banking on FE getting 3.)
 

Autumn ♫

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If Impa does get in it will simply be as a replacement of Shiek in that Zelda would still transform into her. The transformation aspect of zelda is far to important to her character in Smash.

You pretty much ignored everything else I said about Falco so I'm jsut going to do the same thing and ignore everything you said there. :L

He got one very quick glace for XY as far as I know. I don't care about Rumble and thus don't keep up with it.

As for this so called poll. It depends on the poll really. Firstly it depends on if it was just a simple little internet poll on some kind of forum site or a big offical poll by IS or Nintendo or a magezine company and who the target audience is.
I don't see how the Impa transformation would work well and she does deserve her own spot in the roster along with Zelda.

Did I ignore it? Sorry, then could you tell me why being a 2 time character helps with keeping a character please?

I don't really care much for Rumble either but I keep up with it...

Dangit, it was by a guy here on SmashBoards, but it did get a good amount of votes though but it was on other things except for Smashboards.
 

TheLastJinjo

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Do note I said "one of" but I will review all of the characters you stated as debatably less important

Ike is actually probably not as important as Lucario but he's unimportant for the same reasons
I'd like to clarify Ike is not less important than Lucario by a slither and that Ike is unimportant for literally NO reasons.

And I doubt characters importance in SMASH should be surpass their importance in the actual game. Only person I can think of that would be brought back because of Smash popularity is Sheik, but she's part of Zelda's move set anyway, so where did people get the idea she'd be removed????????

I thought about this, but realized that Sakurai has said that the roster is "Finalized" before, and since X/Y haven't even been released yet, so I figured their best 6th gen representation would be Jigglypuff or Mewtwo. Or maybe you were referring to Smash 5? Or perhaps I just missed the joke?
You propose a fine argument sir.
The character's development in SSB4 is not complete, or we'd be having more updates and more characters revealed. Sakurai has plenty of time to add new characters, and I believe this only means that the plans for the roster are finalized. Meaning he has a list of characters he's going to add and could always add more.

Also replacing Impa with Sheik

1. BEING IN THE MOST RECENT ZELDA GAME RELEASED DOESN'T MAKE YOU MORE IMPORTANT! Just like Chrom is not more important than Ike!
2. Why the hell would you replace Sheik with a Sheikah? Why make things more complicated by just making Sheik a separate character, removing Zelda's interchange that she's well known for, so you can waste a slot on someone who was already sharing a slot with another character!? That's like making roster cuts so you can make room for Zero Suit Samus as a separate character.
3. Why replace Sheik with a less important and less desired version of Sheik. Not to mention Sheik IS Zelda. So if Zelda is more important than Impa (a Sheikah) and Sheik (a Sheikah) is Zelda, than Sheik is more important!

And don't even try saying Impa would have her own moveset because it's not gonna be unique enough from Zelda/Sheik for it to make any sense, and her not being a clone of a Sheikah doesn't
make sense because she is one.

Where are Robert's Slowpoke posts when ya need 'em?
It's the truth.
 

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*sigh* well I'm going to try to stop arguing here because basically all I'm trying to say is that he's one of the most likely characters from the brawl roster to get cut for not being too important but that's not saying much because practically everyone in brawl earned their spot. I acknowledge he is still moderately popular but still.
Well then if your trying to stop so am I, I wasnt trying to be that kind of Lucario fan but I cant see why everybody thinks Lucario is SO likely to be cut no matter what he does its frustrating at times but I still see your point on the argument and I respect it, good chat.
 

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Also replacing Impa with Sheik

1. BEING IN THE MOST RECENT ZELDA GAME RELEASED DOESN'T MAKE YOU MORE IMPORTANT! Just like Chrom is not more important than Ike!
2. Why the hell would you replace Sheik with a Sheikah? Why make things more complicated by just making Sheik a separate character, removing Zelda's interchange that she's well known for, so you can waste a slot on someone who was already sharing a slot with another character!? That's like making roster cuts so you can make room for Zero Suit Samus as a separate character.
3. Why replace Sheik with a less important and less desired version of Sheik. Not to mention Sheik IS Zelda. So if Zelda is more important than Impa (a Sheikah) and Sheik (a Sheikah) is Zelda, than Sheik is more important!

And don't even waste your time saying Impa would have her own moveset because it's not gonna be unique enough from Zelda/Sheik for it to make any sense, and her not being a clone of a Sheikah doesn't make sense because she is one.
1. No, but she played an important role in there and has been important in other Zelda games.
2.Could you repeat that again? Didn't quite catch that the first time very well.
3.Sheik is only one Zelda, not all.

So your saying Bowser Jr. would be a clone of Bowser because he's a Koopa?
 

TheLastJinjo

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@"Ike, Sheik, jigglypuff, Falco, Wolf, and Lucas who can also be called the least important in charracters in smash."



So your saying Bowser Jr. would be a clone of Bowser because he's a Koopa?
That's a terrible example. Bowser and Bowser Jr. clearly are unique from each other where as Impa and Sheik are not.
 

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Well then if your trying to stop so am I, I wasnt trying to be that kind of Lucario fan but I cant see why everybody thinks Lucario is SO likely to be cut no matter what he does its frustrating at times but I still see your point on the argument and I respect it, good chat.
I suppose that's what Sakurai meant in terms of being vary when cutting characters since every character has its fans. Maybe many people think that they should cut the likes of Lucario, Toon Link, Ike, Snake, Lucas, Wolf etc etc because bla bla bla clone this bla bla bla flavor of the month that bla bla bla. But in the end these characters do have their fans so its not that simple for Sakurai really.

Meh only time will tell. For now I'm just waiting to see a newcomer who actually appeals to me somewhat. If my previous faves are out oh well then. At least there is still Ness I suppose... :/
 

MargnetMan23

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I'd like to clarify Ike is not less important than Lucario by a slither and that Ike is unimportant for literally NO reasons.
Oh so I heard about Ike's really huge important role in Fire Emblem Awakening I also heard his games got really amazing sales. Ike is awesome isn't he? OK I'm not saying those are good reasons but they are REASONS.
 

TheLastJinjo

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I do kind of giggle a little bit that people try to act like they are SO sure what characters are going to be removed. Even I don't know. But, I'm sick and tired of people going like

"He's a clone bla bla"

"He's an old character bla bla"

"He's newer bla bla"
 

Silverjay323

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The character's development in SSB4 is not complete, or we'd be having more updates and more characters revealed. Sakurai has plenty of time to add new characters, and I believe this only means that the plans for the roster are finalized. Meaning he has a list of characters he's going to add and could always add more.
Yes that much is true, but for a franchise like pokemon, its likely that the reps for it were decided earlier on. Its not gonna get the same treatment as Sonic. Diamond/Pearl was released in 06' and Lucario's inclusion in Brawl followed later in 08. 5th gen had 4 games for it, earning it even more reason for representation, and Black an White 2 was released in 2012, following that same pattern and matching up with Smash 4's development time. Waiting to include a 6th gen pokemon rep just doesn't seem like a good idea when you're pushing for a 2014 release date for both games.
 

TheLastJinjo

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Oh so I heard about Ike's really huge important role in Fire Emblem Awakening I also heard his games got really amazing sales. Ike is awesome isn't he? OK I'm not saying those are good reasons but they are REASONS.
*Implies that a games sales or a character's appearance in the last game means literally anything*



btw Ness had poor sales and he didn't appear in Mother 3. Nor did he appear as the main protagonist of 2 installments like Ikey did.

Yes that much is true, but for a franchise like pokemon, its likely that the reps for it were decided earlier on. Its not gonna get the same treatment as Sonic. Diamond/Pearl was released in 06' and Lucario's inclusion in Brawl followed later in 08. 5th gen had 4 games for it, earning it even more reason for representation, and Black an White 2 was released in 2012, following that same pattern and matching up with Smash 4's development time. Waiting to include a 6th gen pokemon rep just doesn't seem like a good idea when you're pushing for a 2014 release date for both games.
The game was announced way back and is being released in 3 months. And you're saying he's not gonna add a new Poke'mon Character unless they were released 2 years before? That's taking the rosters patterns WAY too literally.
 

MargnetMan23

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*Implies that a games sales or a character's appearance in the last game means literally anything*



btw Ness had poor sales and he didn't appear in Mother 3
But then again Ike isn't a 3 time Veteran and wasn't in the first fire emblem game so that's not really a fair comparison. Basically, Ike is character from Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn. Ike will very likely not be used as an important character in any other games in the near future. Mewtwo despite his popularity would not be as important of a character and would have a somewhat low chance of returning in Smash 4 if he didn't get a gen 6 reboot. Ike in the long run is not any more important then characters like Roy, Lyn, and god knows who else.
 

Gune

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But then again Ike isn't a 3 time Veteran and wasn't in the first fire emblem game so that's not really a fair comparison. Basically, Ike is character from Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn. Ike will very likely not be used as an important character in any other games in the near future. Mewtwo despite his popularity would not be as important of a character and would have a somewhat low chance of returning in Smash 4 if he didn't get a gen 6 reboot. Ike in the long run is not any more important then characters like Roy, Lyn, and god knows who else.
Oh crap **** is about to hit the fan....
 

God Robert's Cousin

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God, even when we're on the same side, reading what Noah says is still hard to stomach. He loves talking with the grumpiness of GoldenYuiitusin and the visual noise of a fire alarm when the ending result is only annoying as ****. It's making the anti-cut crowd look bad in association to him...

All I can really say is that, considering that a 3DS has the same capacity to hold the same amount of data as a Wii game (mind you, DKCR3D's backgrounds have three times the amount of textures as Metroid Prime 3's), the 3DS' roster can easily hold all of Brawl's and then some. I don't think it's entirely out of the question for SSB4 to be delayed like Brawl was in order to accommodate as many characters as possible. This is, of course, hypothetical, but a realistic scenario nonetheless, considering Sakurai's known statements as to character inclusion.

On that note, I don't think I'd be too comfortable sitting next to an Entei in a fire drill.
 

TheLastJinjo

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But then again Ike isn't a 3 time Veteran and wasn't in the first fire emblem game so that's not really a fair comparison. Basically, Ike is character from Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn. Ike will very likely not be used as an important character in any other games in the near future. Mewtwo despite his popularity would not be as important of a character and would have a somewhat low chance of returning in Smash 4 if he didn't get a gen 6 reboot. Ike in the long run is not any more important then characters like Roy, Lyn, and god knows who else.
Again, you are wrong and your examples mean nothing. It is a fair comparison.

1. Being in more than 1 Smash title does NOT make you more likely than anyone else and is not a reason for a characters return. Those smash veterans in the N64 game didn't reappear in Melee because they were in 3 installments.
2. Ike is the second MOST popular lord, so you can't compare him to Lyn OR Roy. Not to mention neither of those characters had 2 Installments, Ike is one of the 3 who did (the other are Marth & Leif.) He's more important because of this. Chrom is not.
3. Ness was not in the first Mother game either, where did you hear that.

As for Mewtwo

1. He's not just a Pokemon, he's a character.
2. He has the most requests as a returning rep, and Sakurai is greatly considering him above all other Melee reps because of this.
3. Mewtwo is more important than Lucario and is one of the most important characters to represent the series.
4. Pokemon always changes reps because there is over 600 of them, Fire Emblem does not.

I'm sorry you have yet to list one single solitary reason why Ike should not return. None of the ones you posted are sufficient. Really all you have to say is "Chrom is da latest" because that's really the only defense your using.

Please stop acting like you know how cuts work.


Eh. I can throw a dice and say that if it lands on an odd number, I'd choose Roy as the third FE rep that I want to see in SSB4, and if even, I'd choose Lyn.
I personally think Roy would make more sense than Chrom, but Sakurai may think otherwise. Who knows. I also think Lyn is very likely, she seems to be one of the MOST popular Fire Emblem lords.
 

N3ON

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But then again Ike isn't a 3 time Veteran and wasn't in the first fire emblem game so that's not really a fair comparison. Basically, Ike is character from Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn. Ike will very likely not be used as an important character in any other games in the near future. Mewtwo despite his popularity would not be as important of a character and would have a somewhat low chance of returning in Smash 4 if he didn't get a gen 6 reboot. Ike in the long run is not any more important then characters like Roy, Lyn, and god knows who else.
Importance isn't measured solely in canon appearances, but even if it was, Ike has double that of Roy or Lyn. Smash is a larger platform than any FE character can aspire to have by just existing in their own universe so, fair or not, inclusion in a previous Smash does affect character importance in most cases. Just because he might not make another main series appearance doesn't mean he is no longer the second most well known FE character with detestably the largest amount of popularity for a FE character.

And Ness wasn't in the first Mother game, Ninten was. Earthbound is the second game.
 

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*Implies that a games sales or a character's appearance in the last game means literally anything*



btw Ness had poor sales and he didn't appear in Mother 3. Nor did he appear as the main protagonist of 2 installments like Ikey did.



The game was announced way back and is being released in 3 months. And you're saying he's not gonna add a new Poke'mon Character unless they were released 2 years before? That's taking the rosters patterns WAY too literally.


That's not my point the 2 years thing was kinda coincidental. I mean that 06-08 was brawl's development window as 2012-2014 is here. I'm saying it wouldn't make sense to skip over an entire generation that was received so well for a rep from 6th gen. Mewtwo/Jigglypuff will like be the best we get from it, and a maybe some pokeballs. But I doubt an another pokemon will be playable because by the time said pokemon gains enough popularity to be recognized, the game will likely be too close to release date, and like I said, they wouldn't wait so long to include a rep for a franchise like pokemon.
 

TheLastJinjo

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That's not my point the 2 years thing was kinda coincidental. I mean that 06-08 was brawl's development window as 2012-2014 is here. I'm saying it wouldn't make sense to skip over an entire generation that was received so well for a rep from 6th gen. Mewtwo/Jigglypuff will like be the best we get from it, and a maybe some pokeballs. But I doubt an another pokemon will be playable because by the time said pokemon gains enough popularity to be recognized, the game will likely be too close to release date, and like I said, they wouldn't wait so long to include a rep for a franchise like pokemon.
But, the Pokemon fans would not be understanding to that. I doubt even the smash fans would be. Pokemon characters gain popularity pretty quickly anyway.
 

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But, the Pokemon fans would not be understanding to that. I doubt even the smash fans would be. Pokemon characters gain popularity pretty quickly anyway.
You cannot speak on the behalf of two very large fanbases as you can't speak for all of them. I'm sure alot pokemon fans would be disappointed to see no 5th gen rep as would smash fans. It's not that simple either. Why do the waiting game with that when there are deserving 5th gen pokemon with already established popularity? It's, simply put, not a very good decision.
 

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You cannot speak on the behalf of two very large fanbases. I'm sure alot pokemon fans would be disappointed to see no 5th gen rep as would smash fans. It's not that simple either. Why do the waiting game with that when there are deserving 5th gen pokemon with already established popularity?
Who is "deserving" in your opinion? I am really curious. The only Pokemon I want is Mewtwo, and he seems like a very likely character. I am not really sure if you are implying that Zoroark should be in the game or what. She is the only Pokemon from Gen 5 that I think has a CHANCE.
 

Autumn ♫

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You cannot speak on the behalf of two very large fanbases. I'm sure alot pokemon fans would be disappointed to see no 5th gen rep as would smash fans. It's not that simple either. Why do the waiting game with that when there are deserving 5th gen pokemon with already established popularity?
I don't think Sakarai really cares about representing every generation, just the newest one. I really would have wanted to see a 3rd generation character but I didn't get one.
 

MargnetMan23

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Are you implying that Chrom will???
Ummm no. But frankly you and I both know that smash does implement some characters for pretty much one reason, they're recent. Roy's inclusion was solely for promotional purposes, Ike got in for pretty much that reason Lucario... You know the drill. It is for this reason and this reason alone that someone like Chrom, Lucina or (preferably but less likely imo) Robin or whatever will likely become a higher priority in this game but that isn't really related.
And Ness wasn't in the first Mother game, Ninten was. Earthbound is the second game.
*looks it up* OH GOD DAMNIT! It doesn't help that they practically dress the same =.=
 

Autumn ♫

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Who is "deserving" in your opinion? I am really curious. The only Pokemon I want is Mewtwo, and he seems like a very likely character. I am not really sure if you are implying that Zoroark should be in the game or what. She is the only Pokemon from Gen 5 that I think has a CHANCE.
I'd say that Genesect has a better chance than she does.
 

Morbi

Scavenger
Joined
Jun 21, 2013
Messages
17,168
Location
Speculation God, GOML
I don't think Sakarai really cares about representing every generation, just the newest one. I really would have wanted to see a 3rd generation character but I didn't get one.
I would have liked to see a Gen 2 Pokemon that wasn't a troll character pre-evolution clone. Just kidding. Meh boy Pichu is a real hard gangsta.
 

shinhed-echi

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
5,636
Location
Ecuador - South America
NNID
punchtropics
3DS FC
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I don't think Sakarai really cares about representing every generation, just the newest one. I really would have wanted to see a 3rd generation character but I didn't get one.

It's not that he doesn't "care". It's that he doesn't feel the need to represent all generations as playable characters, when he can easily represent them as Pokeball items. (There are lots of fans of the pokeball items after all, I haven't met a single smasher IRL that at some point didn't like setting Pokeballs only on very high, and have a ball with it (if you pardon the pun)).
Pokeball items are like a whole list of sub-items of their own, after all.

Remember Sakurai doesn't think of this game as competitive first and foremost. He counts on people playing the regular way, with items, and gimmicky stages too. Or at least considers all the possibilities.
 
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