Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[jaytalks]

I don't understand how Lucario represents gameboy advance
the problem now is how do you determine what a cycle

He represents that Nintendo era of Pokemon. Cycles are determined the generational cycles of home consoles. 8th generation is what we are on now with the Wii U. 7th generation is the Wii generation and games released in that period.

Smash reflects the previous generation. Brawl reflected 6th generation (GC). Melee reflected the fifth generation (N64). 64 reflected SNES and early N64 (fourth generation. Portable games are about which ever time period they are released in.

 

[TheBakonBitz]

I like it, I just don't think Waluigi should be in yet and that Ghirihem shouldn't be in SSB4 or you could trade Ghirihim's place with Vaati's. And Ness should be in there.

Yup Ghirahim could be switched for Vaati and become DLC.

 

[N3ON]

Lucario in no way represents Pokemon in the 6th gen of gaming. Having a minor appearance in a spin-off that was released after the next gen already started does not amount to representing that gen.

 

[jaytalks]

Hey guys check out my latest very realistic 46 man roster!

Cuts:
- Ness
"During the development of Melee, Ness was intended to be removed and replaced by Lucas; the eventual cancellation of EarthBound 64, however, caused Ness to stay in the game." - http://www.ssbwiki.com/Ness#In_Super_Smash_Bros._Melee

"Revivals":
- Roy
Sakurai just needs to declone hime from Marth and give him even more fire abilities.
- Mewtwo
Mewtwo needs a much anticipated return to the grand stage. Mewtwo's new form allows him to represent the sixth gen.

Newcomers:
- Megaman
- King K Rool
He is very popular with the fans and deserves to be in smash. (How about a new game? #revivethekremlings)
- Waluigi
Waluigi is very unique and has a great move set potential, he also represents the mario sports/party games.
- Ghirahim
Ghirahim is a user of magic and dual wields swords, which is very unique.
- Ridley
Very popular and is so much different than anything we have on the roster now. Metroid deserves another rep, especially a villain.
- Little Mac
Just got a reboot a couple of years ago with the new Punch Out game which became a Nintendo Select. We don't have any boxers on the roster and he would make fore a great addition.
- Mach Rider
A bad*** biker that can whip around a chain? 'nuff said.
- Animal Crossing Villager
- Wii Fit Trainer
- Bowser Jr.
An awesome character and he represents the SM Sunshine series that wields a giant paintbrush. He could also turn into Shadow Mario.

DLC:

Big Three Pack
Toad (With Blue and Yellow options) - Mario
Vaati - Zelda
Zoroark - Pokemon

Girl Power
Palutena - Kid Icarus
Krystal - Star Fox
Lyn - Fire Emblem

Shadow Pack
Black Shadow - F-Zero
Ryu - Ninja Gaiden
(Zoroark Can be switched to either Pack 1 and 3)


Note: If Krystal isn't included (DLC or Not) Fox could use her staff, (which he did in Star Fox adventures) Falco could keep him moves (final smash = arwing) and Wolf would get even more decloned.

I dont think they'll cut Ness over Lucas since he's one of the originals. The originals were looked at differently by Sakurai at Melee's release.
Lacks of FE representation from Awakening. Either replace Roy with Chrom or Lyn with Lucina (the latter would work better for your list).
Mach Rider is a good retro choice.

 

[FalKoopa]

Also, the rest of Bakon's roster is awesome, just add Ness.

Especially BOTH Lyn and Roy.

 

[Reznor]

He represents that Nintendo era of Pokemon. Cycles are determined the generational cycles of home consoles. 8th generation is what we are on now with the Wii U. 7th generation is the Wii generation and games released in that period.

Smash reflects the previous generation. Brawl reflected 6th generation (GC). Melee reflected the fifth generation (N64). 64 reflected SNES and early N64 (fourth generation. Portable games are about which ever time period they are released in.

i'm not sure the era thing applies to pokemon here is my reasoning
pokemon 4th gen came out late 2007 and brawl came out mid/early 2008 and right now the same thing is happening Pokemon 6th gen is coming out late this year and Smash 4 is coming out mid/early next year (small chance it might be later)
Lucario was too recent to represent the past with brawl

 

[jaytalks]

Lucario in no way represents Pokemon in the 6th gen of gaming. Having a minor appearance in a spin-off that was released after the next gen already started does not amount to representing that gen.

Diamond and Pearl released in Japan in September 2006.
Wii not released until November 2006.

Smash reflects the previous generation. Brawl reflected 6th generation (GC). Melee reflected the fifth generation (N64). 64 reflected SNES and early N64 (fourth generation. Portable games are about which ever time period they are released in.

The DS was originally designed as a third pillar rather than an outright successor to the GB franchise, so it has overlap between generations.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Based on what your saying, it seems like Buutwo can represent gen 5 as well as Lucario represented gen 3.

 

[mimgrim]

If a Mother character gets cut, it's gonna be Lucas. :/

 

[TheLastJinjo]

@TheCreator

1, Bomberman is both majorly popular and iconic, look him up because I don't think you know who he is if you think he's not a popular and iconic character. What on EARTH are you talking about???

2. When did I say I'm predicting the most likely roster? Seriously, when did you hear that???

3. Yes having a 6th gen Poke'mon IS important, it's always important in every SSB game to have a Poke'mon from the newest gen. You used Gen 3 as an example. That was released AFTER Melee. Gen 6 will be out before SSB is even ALMOST finished.

4. How can you say 3rd party characters AREN'T one time things with no proof.

5. When did I say Roy WOULD be over Chrom because I'd prefer it. I said he SHOULD.

6. How is Sheriff not more likely than such Duck Hunt Dog. Ice Climbers made it so can Sheriff.

7. Banjo & Kazooie are 2nd Party Characters and are not 100% Microsoft. They are still Rare ltd. So bad example.

Yeah? Which game has come out since their buyout that brands them as Hudson characters?


Konami owns Hudson like Microsoft owns Rare. Actually moreso, once Hudson were bought out, they were also dissolved into Konami. Just like Banjo is now a Microsoft character, Bomberman is now a Konami character.

Which game has come out since they're buyout that HASN'T branded them as Hudson Characters? If one does maybe I'll change my mind.

Also Banjo is not entirely a Microsoft Character. Rare is still existent and he IS a Rare character and branded as a Rare character. Microsoft just owns Rare. So he is both.

Also we still have not confirmed Snake is returning.

 

[jaytalks]

Based on what your saying, it seems like Buutwo can represent gen 5 and 6 as well as Lucario represented gen 3 and 4.

yeah he could. but I look at him as a returner at this point. He could fit under either category (past generation due to the fact he's still Mewtwo or sixth generation). Although he was purely in Awakened form (or third form) I could see him representing that generation. I was arguing for the possibility of Zoroark originally at the beginning of this discussion. Just say that he does have grounds to be in the game, if they choose to go in that direction.

i'm not sure the era thing applies to pokemon here is my reasoning
pokemon 4th gen came out late 2007 and brawl came out mid/early 2008 and right now the same thing is happening Pokemon 6th gen is coming out late this year and Smash 4 is coming out mid/early next year (small chance it might be later)
Lucario was too recent to represent the past with brawl

Pokemon 4th gen came out in September 2006 in Japan. It's completely possible that a the pokemon rep could come from the 6th gen. Just saying Zoroark (or any other 5th gen) could be in the game.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Well, I just came back from seeing Capcom sell out their soul in Ultra Street Fighter IV, what'd I miss?

If a Mother character gets cut, it's gonna be Lucas. :/

This. They didn't even capitalize on bringing Mother 3 to the rest of the world after Lucas' inclusion in Brawl. It's reasons like this that give me indication that Lucas may not even return.

 

[FlareHabanero]

what'd I miss?

People being the dumbest creatures alive.

 

[Reznor]

yeah he could. but I look at him as a returner at this point. He could fit under either category (past generation due to the fact he's still Mewtwo or sixth generation). Although he was purely in Awakened form (or third form) I could see him representing that generation. I was arguing for the possibility of Zoroark originally at the beginning of this discussion. Just say that he does have grounds to be in the game, if they choose to go in that direction.

Pokemon 4th gen came out in September 2006 in Japan. It's completely possible that a the pokemon rep could come from the 6th gen. Just saying Zoroark (or any other 5th gen) could be in the game.

was only looking at america release dates that's my fault
its possible and he/she has more of a chance than a lot of other pokemon but I doubt it

 

[Gune]

Smash represented Nintendo era cycles rather than individual series cycles. So Lucario counts for GBA and early DS era of Pokemon. It's not about individual generations, it's about the Pokemon of that Nintendo era.

Wait so if Lucario represents the DS era why do we need Zoroark?

 

[Opossum]

7. Banjo & Kazooie are 2nd Party Characters

They belong to Rare, which belongs entirely to Microsoft.

 

[mimgrim]

Wait so if Lucario represents the DS era why do we need Zoroark?

Early Ds era.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

They belong to Rare, which belongs entirely to Microsoft.

Yet you just said they still belong to Rare. That makes them Rareware characters owned by Microsoft. And if they are 1st Party you can't really compare that to Bomberman.

 

[Reznor]

People being the dumbest creatures alive.

I haven't been playing attention to other peoples posts on a scale from 1 to 10 how dumb are we being right now
10 bucks says i'm the dumbest

 

[jaytalks]

Wait so if Lucario represents the DS era why do we need Zoroark?

Lucario represent the 6th generation of gaming or that nintendo era. Smash 4 will be about the 7th generation of gaming or that Nintendo era. Portables are about whatever era they are released in.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Snake returning is the only thing that will deconfirm Bomberman.

 

[Opossum]

Yet you just said they still belong to Rare. That makes them Rareware characters owned by Microsoft. And if they are 1st Party you can't really compare that to Bomberman.

They're still not second party. That implies that Rare can go work for someone other than Microsoft, does it not? Banjo fully belongs to Microsoft, through Rare. And why is this even being said? It's not like Banjo OR Bomberman will make it...

 

[Hotfeet444]

People being the dumbest creatures alive.

So the usual? Great.

 

[FalKoopa]

Yet you just said they still belong to Rare. That makes them Rareware characters owned by Microsoft. And if they are 1st Party you can't really compare that to Bomberman.

They are 3rd party because Nintendo doesn't own. They are 2nd parties from a Microsoft point of view, though.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

They're still not second party. That implies that Rare can go work for someone other than Microsoft, does it not? Banjo fully belongs to Microsoft, through Rare. And why is this even being said? It's not like Banjo OR Bomberman will make it...

Banjo is first Party, Bomberman is not, so Bomberman CAN be in SSB. This Konami buyout should be reviewed before instantly confirming him as entirely and 100% Konami descent. And even then Snake's return is still not confirmed.

 

[jaytalks]

was only looking at america release dates that's my fault
its possible and he/she has more of a chance than a lot of other pokemon but I doubt it

Zoroark was once the "it" pokemon like Lucario, so I just don't think he is out of the realm of possibility. I personally put Genesect since it has become the "it" Pokemon along with Mewtwo in the next film.

This also has to with my own desires of Pokemon representation for Smash. I don't enjoy the generation 1 over representation because to fans of the Pokemon series, the Pokemon of the more recent games have been just as iconic to the series as the generation 1 pokemon. For Pokemon fans who didnt start at Red and Blue (or Green), the more recent Pokemon can represent series just as well as the previous generation. Some of generation1 should remain, but the should not be solely kept on for being a part of generation 1.

No need to review the buyout, since Hudson dissolved into Konami.

 

[Opossum]

Banjo is first Party, Bomberman is not, so Bomberman CAN be in SSB. This Konami buyout should be reviewed before instantly confirming him as entirely and 100% Konami descent. And even then Snake's return is still not confirmed.

In theory, any character that doesn't belong to another company and has made an appearance on a Nintendo system can make it in. That doesn't mean they're at all likely.

As far as your "proof," pop this into a translator, and it says:

Thank you for your interest in Hudson products normal circumstances, thank you very much. Hudson was merged with Konami Digital Entertainment Co., Ltd. on March 1, 2012. As a member of the Konami Group, will make every effort to be able to deliver the new entertainment to our customers in the future. In addition, the products and services of "Hudson" brand, so that we can continue to expand after the merger, I would like to ask for continued patronage and ever.

Right there. Konami owns Hudson and absorbed the company.

 

[Gune]

Lucario represent the 6th generation of gaming or that nintendo era. Smash 4 will be about the 7th generation of gaming or that Nintendo era. Portables are about whatever era they are released in.

How many times have they represented the gameing generations in past smash games?

 

[Reznor]

Zoroark was once the "it" pokemon like Lucario, so I just don't think he is out of the realm of possibility. I personally put Genesect since it has become the "it" Pokemon along with Mewtwo in the next film.

This also has to with my own desires of Pokemon representation for Smash. I don't enjoy the generation 1 over representation because to fans of the Pokemon series, the Pokemon of the more recent games have been just as iconic to the series as the generation 1 pokemon. For Pokemon fans who didnt start at Red and Blue (or Green), the more recent Pokemon can represent series just as well as the previous generation. Some of generation1 should remain, but the should not be solely kept on for being a part of generation 1.

No need to review the buyout, since Hudson dissolved into Konami.

I do agree we need pokemon other than gen 1 now I grew up with gen 1 and every thing but in brawl every single pokemon was gen 1 other than Lucario
but I still think there are better choices than Zoroark

 

[jaytalks]

How many times have they represented the gameing generations in past smash games?

representation of individual characters doesn't change with other series too much since the actual characters don't change as much as pokemon. but smash games tends to reflect the history of the previous generation. Look no further than the Zelda series to see how it works. OOT was heavily reflected into 64 (Link), and a mix of OOT and MM was reflected in Melee (Termina Bay, and all OOT Characters), and TP and WW making up the characters and stages of Brawl. 4 has both elements of SS (stage) and TP so far (remember TP was the first Zelda to be a launch title with the Wii). It matters more with returning series rather than new ones.
For 64, SNES staples (Samus, Ness) made the release over new N64 franchises. With new and unrepresented franchises its a bit more tricky since their games don't come out by generation. And retro adds obvious don't fit because they are added specifically to represent the retro era (Mr. Game and Watch, Ice Climbers, Pit, ROB). This "reflection" is not absolute, but it's how I see Smash, considering it's a celebration of NIntendo's history.

 

[N3ON]

Diamond and Pearl released in Japan in September 2006.
Wii not released until November 2006.

The DS was originally designed as a third pillar rather than an outright successor to the GB franchise, so it has overlap between generations.

The DS is a seventh generation system, the generation didn't begin with the Wii. Even if both the DS and the GBA were meant to exist in tandem, they obviously weren't made in tandem; compared to the GBA the DS is a next-gen system.

Which game has come out since they're buyout that HASN'T branded them as Hudson Characters? If one does maybe I'll change my mind.

lol, Noah, what kind of mentality is this?
I have proof of what I'm claiming (that Hudson no longer exists), you have no proof of your claims, you should be the one to supply the evidence. Simple as that.

Also Banjo is not entirely a Microsoft Character. Rare is still existent and he IS a Rare character and branded as a Rare character. Microsoft just owns Rare. So he is both.

Microsoft owns 100% of Rare. He is entirely a Microsoft character. I agree, he can be both a Rare character and a Microsoft character, but just because he's also owned by Rare doesn't mean Microsoft doesn't have complete control of him. Kirby is both a HAL character and a character Nintendo owns 100%.

Also we still have not confirmed Snake is returning.

Who said we did?

 

[jaytalks]

I do agree we need pokemon other than gen 1 now I grew up with gen 1 and every thing but in brawl every single pokemon was gen 1 other than Lucario
but I still think there are better choices than Zoroark

I choose Genesect for my own roster, but who do you think are better choices? I'm curious because I'm constantly switching who I think it is. I also list down Unova Trainer as well. If I could make N work somehow, he would be my number 1 choice.

 

[LittleKrool]

I know some characters from brawl wll not make it, so who'd you cut from brawl?

 

[Reznor]

I know some characters from brawl wll not make it, so who'd you cut from brawl?

Sonic so i can watch all his fans cry

 

[TheLastJinjo]

What's the point in representing Classic Link anyway? Every Character has classic versions of themselves Mario, Donkey Kong, Pit, Yoshi, Kirby, Fox, Yoshi. What makes the classic version of Link so special. There was actually a point in representing Young or Toon Link. Different Versions not different Eras. And if the assumption is that he has Items from the game, then we can Assume Toon Link will have his own items too. Making him even more unique and a better choice than he already was. NOT TO MENTION Four Swords Adventures makes use of SEVERAL LTTP Items. So yeah, I see NO reason to add Classic Link over Toon Link. It's just stupid.

Classic over Toon is biased and it's already a costume for Toon Link. Toon Link is clearly more popular, requested, and unique.

 

[Gune]

I know some characters from brawl wll not make it, so who'd you cut from brawl?

Lucas- still havent released mother 3 outside of japan even though he is a awesome charecter I see no point in his present's now. Toon Link- I see him being in a doctor mario situation. After that I dont want anyone else gone.

 

[FalKoopa]

I know some characters from brawl wll not make it, so who'd you cut from brawl?

Let's see...

- Cutting Toon Link for Ghirahim.... I don't really see it happening. Ghirahim just screams "SSB4 Midna/Zant" to me.

- Cutting Lucario for Mewtwo. It is very possible, I agree, but I think it more likely to keep Mewtwo AND Lucario.

- Despite being the creator of the Ashley thread, I sadly don't see her as likely.

- Iffy on Krystal.

- Having BOTH K. Rool and Dixie would be awesome.

- That Ashley Mii is creepy

 

[Hotfeet444]

I know some characters from brawl wll not make it, so who'd you cut from brawl?

Ghirahim's chances are very slim to none, Ashley's not getting in, choose between Dixie and K.Rool, Krystal isn't necessary, a second F-Zero rep isn't necessary, no classic/retro character is a little unsettling, Takamaru deserves a spot ahead of Isaac. I'd give it a 6/10.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Ashley

I wouldn't let "who your favorite character is" get in the way of your actual predictions.

Lucas- still havent released mother 3 outside of japan even though he is a awesome charecter I see no point in his present's now. Toon Link- I see him being in a doctor mario situation. After that I dont want anyone else gone.

No. Dr. mario was a pointless addition of a version of a character that needed no representation. There are so many versions of Link that it's neccessary to have 2. That's why Sakurai kept the 2nd Link. And although it makes sense that Ness would likely replace Lucas, I'd prefer people not say Lucas won't replace Ness or be removed as if it's already been confirmed.

 

[LittleKrool]

Let's see...

- Cutting Toon Link for Ghirahim.... I don't really see it happening. Ghirahim just screams "SSB4 Midna/Zant" to me.

- Cutting Lucario for Mewtwo. It is very possible, I agree, but I think it more likely to keep Mewtwo AND Lucario.

- Despite being the creator of the Ashley thread, I sadly don't see her as likely.

- Iffy on Krystal.

- Having BOTH K. Rool and Dixie would be awesome.

- That Ashley Mii is creepy

Ashley mii? where? All I see is my friends mii.