Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[andimidna]

They aren't really TP incarnations.

As @pizzadudemanguy said in one of his videos, they are more of brand-new "Smash incarnations," that are based off of the TP designs.

Name one detail in the design that isn't directly taken from TP.
(over-exaggerating a bit, but these are unmistakably TP)

 

[Morbi]

What sending everyone else back through time with his Ocarina and slaying them while they are infants?

Too specific, but I wouldn't mind babalities to make an appearance in Smash.

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

Link doesn't have a Final Smash from the Zelda series, because there's nothing there that really fits as a final smash for him. Nothing "epic" enough that isn't too specific.

well it might be to late for this, but he does now. (although with only horizontal movement it might lack what he needs)

What sending everyone else back through time with his Ocarina and slaying them while they are infants?

babality?

 

[UltimateWario]

More people arguing with ol' Brick Wall Saturn, eh? Fun fun.

My hype for this game is through the ****ing roof.

 

[Baskerville]

We are at the point where newcomers have to really stand out from the rest of the crowd to even be considered. Sakurai managed to do Rosalina justice by her being a puppeteer character, something nobody else from Smash can do.
Meanwhile on Smashboards and other sites most people thought she'd be nothing more than a semi or full on Peach clone.

 

[Louie G.]

Oh, really?
View attachment 7422

That's a HELL of a lot more than Toon Link, Ganondorf, and Lucas...She uses all the Star Fox gear too does she not?
More than Lucas? No way. Toon Link IS Link, and Ganondorf...
Well I'll never really understand that one.

That's probably because mine is true and based on it actually happening to every character under the specific descriptions I gave. Than you suggested characters NOT under the specific descriptions I gave. So comparing it makes no sense.

Alright, like I said. My arguments were supposed to sound stupid.

Once again, this does NOT fit the description I gave. This suggests that Palutena could have unrelated moves and that Sakurai could make them function the same despite originally baring no resemblance to begin with. If Palutena did these things and they bared resemblance to begin with, then that would make sense. But, she doesn't.

A character becomes a clone because they are ALREADY are able to perform the SAME actions. Not because Sakurai can INVENT stuff to DELIBERATELY alter to function the same as those unrelated actions.

Like Ganondorf, he's already able to punch and kick and grab. Lucas is already able to use PSI.

Lucario is not already able to use confusion, teleport, or disable. King K. Rool is not already able to breathe fire and have a shell.

And I hope you read VERY closely to the wording I used because it's very specific. Last time you didn't and started posting stuff that made no sense.

Palutena uses the counter, halo, AND teleportation in Uprising. That being said I don't expect her to be a clone.
Palutena can perform these actions in game. Ganondorf and Lucas make sense as clones based on your explanations though.

EDIT: Why can I never pull these posts off...

 

[TumblrFamous]

We are at the point where newcomers have to really stand out from the rest of the crowd to even be considered. Sakurai managed to do Rosalina justice by her being a puppeteer character, something nobody else from Smash can do.
Meanwhile on Smashboards and other sites most people thought she'd be nothing more than a semi or full on Peach clone.

And people still think she's replacing the Ice Climbers.

But it doesn't even have to be something "new". Look at Mega Man. He doesn't necessarily add anything new, everyone has projectiles, but he's completely based on Projectiles. So someone like, say, Little Mac maybe, can have a moveset based completely on punching, would still stand out.

 

[Sharkarat]

well it might be to late for this, but he does now. (although with only horizontal movement it might lack what he needs)

I agree, that would make an awesome Final Smash.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

And people still think she's replacing the Ice Climbers.

But it doesn't even have to be something "new". Look at Mega Man. He doesn't necessarily add anything new, everyone has projectiles, but he's completely based on Projectiles. So someone like, say, Little Mac maybe, can have a moveset based completely on punching, would still stand out.

People think she'll be replacing the Ice Climbers!?

Metal....Gear!?

----

 

[TumblrFamous]

People think she'll be replacing the Ice Climbers!?

----

Well, Youtube and Miiverse. But still. People are stupid.

 

[andimidna]

Final Smashes, accuracy-wise, are almost universally non-canon. Kirby's Chef Ability, the Starfox gang's Landmasters (besides Wofl's), Marth's Critical Hit, Beast Ganon, the Light Arrows...these are almost all of the Final Smashes based on a character's actual ability or event that they experienced (in Olimar's case). There are a few more, but for the most part, Final Smashes aren't meant to be true to a character. They're meant to look cool and deal lots of damage.

Do I wish Samus had HyperMode or the Hyper Beam as her Final Smash? Yeah, sure. But I understand that the Zero Laser has pretty much universal appeal and it's not going anywhere.



This, too. As good as Majora's Mask is, it's relatively a cult classic compared to OoT, and even then, not a lot of people got the Fierce Deity's Mask, and even then, only Young Link every uses it. Besides the Fierce Deity's Mask, Link never really has an "ultimate" attack or form.

It makes more sense for a character without so much potential for a real final smash to make something up.
If Rosalina's Final Smash isn't the Comet Observatory, and it's some made up Luma Storm, I'll be pissed. I didn't like that many of the Final Smashes in Brawl. I like Wii Fit Trainer's a lot, it represents her games and her main role. She doesn't actually do it in Wii Fit, but nothing in Wii Fit could be directly put in for a Final Smash, she didn't have the potential but they chose the next best thing. Not each one needs to be super creative and out there. Not each one needs to be obvious and boring. Hopefully they change some of the ones in Brawl.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Name one detail in the design that isn't directly taken from TP.
(over-exaggerating a bit, but these are unmistakably TP)

The brighter art style.
Done.

Also Link's more flowing hair, smoother clothes, and a slightly different head shape.

 

[Baskerville]

And people still think she's replacing the Ice Climbers.

But it doesn't even have to be something "new". Look at Mega Man. He doesn't necessarily add anything new, everyone has projectiles, but he's completely based on Projectiles. So someone like, say, Little Mac maybe, can have a moveset based completely on punching, would still stand out.

With Steve Fox like sways.

 

[Louie G.]

The brighter art style.
Done.

Also Link's more flowing hair, smoother clothes, and a slightly different head shape.

Is Link's earring from TP?

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

The brighter art style.
Done.

Also Link's more flowing hair, smoother clothes, and a slightly different head shape.

He has this games graphical and palette colors sure, but he definitely takes far more inspiration from the original TP artwork (hidden below) than tp could manage to pull off in their own game engine. He has TP links design without a doubt, but thats not to say he doesnt already have everything most links have, especially his animations which include his final strike on ganon in OOT, and his jumping and downward strikes from zelda 2.

Spoiler

 

[andimidna]

well it might be to late for this, but he does now. (although with only horizontal movement it might lack what he needs)

babality?

I've seen people request the Great Spin as his Final Smash, I think that's what this is based off. That would work.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Is Link's earring from TP?

No they are from Ocarina of Time.

Name one detail in the design that isn't directly taken from TP.
(over-exaggerating a bit, but these are unmistakably TP)

I'll also give you more details not directly from TP.
The elf-like appearance,
Blonde hair,
Green clothes,
Blue eyes,
Human skin,
Long hat,
Boots and gloves,
And chain armor under his green tunic.

That's a lot of things not directly from TP.

 

[Hotfeet444]

The point is that while similar in body shape (And in species) to Fox, the point is that Fox, Falco, and Wolf are all designed off of the same concept on purpose, because it's what they're best known for, for being pilots. What is Krystal known best for?

Her staff and the gameplay of Starfox Adventures, and although she is a pilot as well, she's more commonly associated with her appearance in Starfox Adventures, as it's what we were introduced to Krystal with and what Krystal was established as, which is a Staff wielding character. Aside from her staff, she's known more for her telepathy than being a pilot. This is this character's most prominent role, and it's what said character would be represented as.

I'm not claiming to be Sakurai, never have never will, but I know for a fact that if anything unique were to be taken into account about Krystal to be a character in Smash Bros, her staff as a weapon would most likely be first priority for a Krystal moveset. Of course, the most iconic look of Krystal is her blue jumpsuit from Assault, so it's most likely that the best of both worlds would be put together and the charaacter would be jumpsuit Krystal with her staff. We have characters in Smash Bros who use weapons they aren't even originally able to use (Earthbound characters, Pikachu's current gen Skull Bash, etc.) so I say that having something like this isn't that much of an issue. Also, leave it Namco-Bandai to know how to design amazing staff fighters (Kilik in Soul Calibur anyone?). I know her chances aren't incredible, but I'm now seriously going to support Krystal, because there's alot she can put together and use that can really diverse her quite a bit from the rest of the cast.

 

[andimidna]

The brighter art style.
Done.

Also Link's more flowing hair, smoother clothes, and a slightly different head shape.

I meant something not taken from TP, but taken from another Zelda game.
Not done.

No they are from Ocarina of Time.


I'll also give you more details not directly from TP.
The elf-like appearance,
Blonde hair,
Green clothes,
Blue eyes,
Human skin,
Long hat,
Boots and gloves,
And chain armor under his green tunic.

That's a lot of things not directly from TP.

That's a lot of things that were in Twilight Princess.
Are you suggesting Link had brown hair and blue clothes? Green eyes? Snake skin? and a short hat?
...Are you high?

 

[AncientTobacco]

Here's an useful image I've found for people that think SSB4 Link isn't TP Link.

 

[deebeethedeity]

I agree, that would make an awesome Final Smash.

It would but sakurai wont do it sadly

 

[andimidna]

Is Link's earring from TP?

Yes the Blue earring was in Twilight Princess. It was in Ocarina of Time first, but was more prominent then. It's slightly more hidden in the TP Link design.

 

[N3ON]

I'd go on record and say Krystal isn't ever going to be included if she's not an original character. It's possible she shares a move or two with the existing SF template, but with two movesets already based off the original, I very much doubt Sakurai would add a third (unless he cut Falco or Wolf I suppose, but cutting either for Krystal is pretty darn unlikely).

And if she was added in an original capacity, where do you think Sakurai would look? Probably at the material that she is closest associated with and sets her apart the most from both the SF movesets and the movesets already in Smash: her staff. Sure, Palutena also uses a staff, but Link already used a sword prior to all those other sword-wielders, there's more than one way to use a weapon, especially one that has shown to be capable of many unique un-staff-like elements such as Krystal's.

Her actual chances are a whole other debate (for SSB4 they aren't particularly good), but should she make the cut one day (which I personally hope for), I don't see it being anything less than as her own original character.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Dear, Dellusional, Narcissist Possum...

Spoiler

Actually characters become clones because (gasp) they run low on development time

Post a source proving that to be the only reason they are clones and that Sakurai wouldn't have made Falco, Luigi, and Lucas clones if he DID have time. There is none.

The six Melee clones were only added to buff the roster, and the newer clones in Brawl (read: Lucas, and even that's stretching the term) were likely the way they are because of the SSE taking up most of the time. There's actual proof to coincide with this, unlike your pattern theory.

This is proof that they were last minute additions in Brawl. NOT that they were clones because of it. Sorry, try again.

Wait, so according to you, Pit having his Specials changed doesn't matter, but at the same time, Bowser having lots of things except his Specials changed also doesn't matter. Nice contradiction, there.

Hmm, specials and Smash attacks are BOTH moves. Explain to me the contradiction.

Ganondorf was a last minute addition in Melee. That's a proven fact, and pretty much common knowledge by now. As well, in Brawl, the SSE ate up 75% of the Dev time. That's likely why he wasn't decloned.

Show me proof that Ganondorf would not be a clone if he wasn't a last minute addition which you also don't have proof of.

And LOL at Wolf being called a semi-clone. Having four similar moves isn't even enough to be called a semi-clone.

Then call it whatever the **** you want. He still shares 4 moves, a Final Smash, and is essentially based on Fox.

So by your logic, unique characters can be reworked, but clones are clones forever? That's some grade-A bull.

You would think that wouldn't you. I guess Luigi is getting a brand new move set then. Oh, wait he didn't. Clones are made clones, semi-clones, whatever because they are SUPPOSED to be that way. That should be common knowledge.

Pit and Bowser's changes heavily affect the way they play, so they're by no means "minor." If anything, logic would dictate that if they were reworked, a character like Ganondorf, known for the fact that people hate his cloned moveset, would be reworked.

People hate every clone move set. And yet Lucas and Wolf still shared moves and Luigi was still a clone. So that's not enough to assume Ganondorf will be completely decloned. Try again.

You proved nothing.

Such a silly possum.

While I can agree that Lucas is a semi-clone, I also explained why it doesn't exactly mean as much to him as it would if Chrom were made a semi-clone. To go further though, Lucas and Ness can't even learn PK Fire, Starstorm and Thunder in their game, nor can Lucas learn PK Freeze. Heck, Lucas can actually LEARN PK FLASH, but doesn't take it from Ness. That alone throws away the argument of "Characters that learn similar moves and look similar are destined to have those moves cloned."

Lucas is CAPABLE of performing PSI. It doesn't have to be canon. Being capable of doing something is not the same as having done it.

Are you seriously insinuating that Jigglypuff plays at all like Kirby does? The jumps and her shape are pretty much where the similarities end.

Jigglypuff shares several smash attakcs. Go back and play her. She shares more than Lucas.

You know why he does? Sakurai needed six last minute clones for Melee, and Falco looked more physically different from Fox than Wolf did. That's the only reason why Falco was added, and why he's a clone.

Lol. This just gets better and better.

Funny, I thought you said that looking similar to Marth (which is still hilarious, really) was enough to make Chrom an automatic clone

LOL! That's funny because I actually didn't. Again, go back and read. Looks are not enough. You have to have the capabilities too.

while Rosalina looks quite a bit (physically speaking) like Peach, but suddenly can't be a clone...which is it, Saturn?

I think you are illiterate. Millions of times I said you have to have similar traits AND originally be capable of performing the abilities.

Chrom's Falchion is also different enough from Marth's to not be an automatic clone. If it works for Ike, it works for Chrom. Simple as that, Saturn.

My mind is not as simple as yours.

You're ignoring the fact that Lucas, who may still be a semi-clone, completely destroys your argument due to one thing: he had the option of utilizing Ness' PK Flash, which he naturally learns. Instead, he used PK Freeze, which he can't learn. That one counterpoint is enough to break your imaginary pattern. Your self-imposed conditions won't make this go away, Saturn.

Go back and read the post I just made.

Your childishness doesn't surprise me anymore, Saturn. In fact, I've come to expect it. It's who you are, after all. I'm just having a bit of fun is all. Looks like you won't need to wait too much longer either, assuming you didn't skip over the parts you didn't want to read.

Spoiler

Patterns, evidence, actual events > Assumptions based off assumptions.

Well clearly all you've proved is that you will do and say ANYTHING to sound right. Regardless of how much sense it DOESN'T make and how many times I tarnish thes pathetic arguments.I've proved pretty much all of it and THIS is what you come up with???

Well if you wanna go around pretending to be Sakurai and be smart alack every time you're wrong (I know you can't help it being the dellusional narcissist you are) don't come crying to me when you get a smart alack response.

Respect, young possum. You gotta give it to get it. That includes respect for other people's intelligence. I'd stick around and play dumb ass with you more. But, I don't do that Diddy and Deity game anymore. Sorry, bud.

BYYYYYYE

It's a shame how real evidence tarnishes the bias assumptions one holds dear, isn't it?
Sincerely, SaturnGamer64

 

[Mega Bidoof]

The point is that while similar in body shape (And in species) to Fox, the point is that Fox, Falco, and Wolf are all designed off of the same concept on purpose, because it's what they're best known for, for being pilots. What is Krystal known best for?

Her staff and the gameplay of Starfox Adventures, and although she is a pilot as well, she's more commonly associated with her appearance in Starfox Adventures, as it's what we were introduced to Krystal with and what Krystal was established as, which is a Staff wielding character. Aside from her staff, she's known more for her telepathy than being a pilot. This is this character's most prominent role, and it's what said character would be represented as.
View attachment 7426
I'm not claiming to be Sakurai, never have never will, but I know for a fact that if anything unique were to be taken into account about Krystal to be a character in Smash Bros, her staff as a weapon would most likely be first priority for a Krystal moveset. Of course, the most iconic look of Krystal is her blue jumpsuit from Assault, so it's most likely that the best of both worlds would be put together and the charaacter would be jumpsuit Krystal with her staff. We have characters in Smash Bros who use weapons they aren't even originally able to use (Earthbound characters, Pikachu's current gen Skull Bash, etc.) so I say that having something like this isn't that much of an issue. Also, leave it Namco-Bandai to know how to design amazing staff fighters (Kilik in Soul Calibur anyone?). I know her chances aren't incredible, but I'm now seriously going to support Krystal, because there's alot she can put together and use that can really diverse her quite a bit from the rest of the cast.

Am I the only one that sees a break-dancing Professor E. Gadd in Krystal's silhouette in the first picture?

 

[andimidna]

Here's an useful image I've found for people that think SSB4 Link isn't TP Link.

Thank you. I was actually looking for that exact image.

 

[Morbi]

Hopefully Skyward Sword Link is the alternate costume or something. I can't last another game with Twilight Princess Link. It just isn't going to happen.

 

[Louie G.]

Why can't we just have one day without arguing?
Just one? Can we all agree on something?

 

[Baskerville]

This is what I get from Saturn:

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

It's been a while since Saturnoah made long argumentative responses. Thanks for the entertainment.

 

[N3ON]

Was gonna respond civily to this, but ah why not? It's stupid and disrespectful enough to earn quite the opposite.

No Noah, no posts "earn" a lack of civility, especially from you. I'd suggest you curb your unjustified condescension.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Am I the only one that sees a break-dancing Professor E. Gadd in Krystal's silhouette in the first picture?

Oh my God, I just noticed that. Professor E.Gadd is a Shadow Stalker.

Dear, Mr. Possum
Well clearly all you've proved is that you will do and say ANYTHING to sound right. Regardless of how much sense it DOESN'T make and how many times I tarnish thes pathetic arguments.I've proved pretty much all of it and THIS is what you come up with??? Well if you wanna go around pretending to be Sakurai and be smart alack every time you're wrong don't come crying to me when you get a smart alack response.

Respect, young possum. You gotta give it to get it. That includes respect for other people's intelligence. I'd stick around and play dumb *** with you more. But, I don't do that Diddy and Deity game anymore. Sorry, bud.

BYYYYYYE [/collapse]

Kay thanks bye, let the door slam you in the face on the way out. Glad you wasted hours of our time only to turn tail and run.

 

[deebeethedeity]

I'd go on record and say Krystal isn't ever going to be included if she's not an original character. It's possible she shares a move or two with the existing SF template, but with two movesets already based off the original, I very much doubt Sakurai would add a third (unless he cut Falco or Wolf I suppose, but cutting either for Krystal is pretty darn unlikely).

And if she was added in an original capacity, where do you think Sakurai would look? Probably at the material that she is closest associated with and sets her apart the most from both the SF movesets and the movesets already in Smash: her staff. Sure, Palutena also uses a staff, but Link already used a sword prior to all those other sword-wielders, there's more than one way to use a weapon, especially one that has shown to be capable of many unique un-staff-like elements such as Krystal's.

Her actual chances are a whole other debate (for SSB4 they aren't particularly good), but should she make the cut one day (which I personally hope for), I don't see it being anything less than as her own original character.

N3ON only speaks the truth. Its beautiful

 

[UltimateWario]

That reminds me, if I'm going to have another Mario Rep forced down my throat, it better be E. Gadd. Or Waluigi.

 

[Hotfeet444]

That reminds me, if I'm going to have another Mario Rep forced down by throat, it better be E. Gadd. Or Waluigi.

Aww, no love for King Boo?

 

[Knight Dude]

Are we really back to talking about Krystal? Her being a Star Fox character doesn't means she's doomed to be a clone. Her staff could help her stand out more well enough if handled correctly. But like Golden said before, it doesn't guarantee that she's unique either.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

No Noah, no posts "earn" a lack of civility, especially from you. I'd suggest you curb your unjustified condescension.

Oh, I see. I don't like your opinions. So I get to deem it justified to be rude to you. And you being rude back is NOT justified according to me. Good advice.

 

[deebeethedeity]

That reminds me, if I'm going to have another Mario Rep forced down by throat, it better be E. Gadd. Or Waluigi.

Boswer Jr. Or geno

 

[Louie G.]

@SaturnGamer64, please stop.
You're talking to a mod, you better be careful.
I don't want you banned.

 

[UltimateWario]

Aww, no love for King Boo?

nope.avi

Or geno

dreamon.mp3