Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[TumblrFamous]

They are? How? How are they better for more pixels when they originated on the GC?

I'm not saying they are for sure better, I mean we haven't seen them on HD before. More of a guess than theory.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

What about Lucario? He has a similar build to Mewtwo and can perform his abilities, but he only ended up sharing 1 or 2 moves.

Lucario is not psychic nor can he float and what not. He also was not originally capable of performing Confusion, Disable, or Teleport.

I don't see why having a similar body type or concept in design immediately means that a character will be a clone. It's already been dis-proven enough times.

Nobody ever said similar body type = clone.

But the combination of major similar traits combined with the character originally being capable of performing said abilities DOES. It has always happened. Lucario, Ike, and Rosalina were not originally capable of performing the attacks of Mewtwo, Marth, and Peach.

 

[deebeethedeity]

Lol why do users on here think they know whos getting in and why? They act like they're sakurai

You guys shouldnt immediately dismiss a character.

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

They are? How? How are they better for more pixels when they originated on the GC?

do you know the difference between a design and an in game character model? It doesnt sound like your understanding what he meant

 

[TumblrFamous]

Lucario is not psychic nor can he float and what not. He also was not originally able to perform Confusion, Disable, or Teleport.

You got me on the special moves, but Mewtwo was still floaty and whatnot in Melee, and had a similar build to Lucario. Lucario could have easily been a copy-paste of Mewtwo with some tweaked specials.

 

[Louie G.]

Guys, Palutena is a Zelda clone because magic.
Guys, K. Rool is a Bowser clone because reptilian villains.
Guys, Ridley is a Charizard clone because dragons.
Guys, Little Mac a Mario clone because punches.
See how idiotic these arguments are? The Krystal argument is extremely similar.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Yep.

Neutral B: Shoots a ball of fire or ice out of her staff. Similar to the Blaster.
Side B: ???
Up B: Uses her staff as a rocket and goes up. Similar to Fire Fox/Bird/Wolf.
Down B: Uses her staff to create a barrier that protects and might counter attacks. Similar to the Reflector.

She can easily be unique, but I'm just listing stuff people bring up that could make her be (semi?)cloneish.

----

Sharing a variation of special moves doesn't make you a semi-clone, especially when everything else is completely different. Which is why I laugh when people call Wolf a semi-clone when he's clearly his own unique character. I guess Snake is a semi-clone of Fox and Lucario because they share a couple of the same aerial attacks.

Not to mention Freeze Blast would be closer to Ice Climber's down B, Her down B would be the Earthquake Staff, and the Up special would be closer to Diddy Kong's Rocket Barrel pack. In short...she's not a fox clone, she's a Ice Climber/Diddy Kong Semi-clone.

 

[Morbi]

Lol why do users on here think they know whos getting in and why? They act like they're sakurai

You guys shouldnt immediately dismiss a character.

This, I don't know why it isn't utterly apparent how fallacious dismissing a character actually is... but I suppose it isn't as overt as I originally anticipated. Blatantly disregarding a character's chances based on an assumption is erroneous. You can dismiss the character by a preponderance of the evidence, that is completely realistic. However, presuming Krystal is a clone, just because she may be a clone is ridiculous. More likely than not, Sakurai isn't going to disregard the relevant source material that gets her requested in the first place.

 

[Bowserlick]

Sharing a variation of special moves doesn't make you a semi-clone, especially when everything else is completely different. Which is why I laugh when people call Wolf a semi-clone when he's clearly his own unique character.

It does not help that every character in the Star Fox franchise has a blaster, reflector, illusion, jetpack, and same Final Smash. A franchise with three characters... you would hope there would be a little more variety between all three. (That is why I was an advocate for Andross with a body in the pre-Brawl days).

Plus, Wolf is a wolf named Wolf that is a wolf. Fox is a fox named Fox that is a fox.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

You got me on the special moves, but Mewtwo was still floaty and whatnot in Melee, and had a similar build to Lucario. Lucario could have easily been a copy-paste of Mewtwo with some tweaked specials.

You're clearly not listening. You don't become clones unless you are "ORIGINALLY" okay? "CAPABLE" did you get that part? "OF PERFORMING THE SAME ABILITIES"!

That and you "ALSO" have to share "SIMILAR TRAITS"

You have to have BOTH of these things. Lucario does not.

Guys, Palutena is a Zelda clone because magic.

Guys, K. Rool is a Bowser clone because reptilian villains.
Guys, Ridley is a Charizard clone because dragons.
Guys, Little Mac a Mario clone because punches.
See how idiotic these arguments are? The Krystal argument is extremely similar.

No offense, but now you're just being stupid. Especially by comparing this to the Krystal argument. Not saying you ARE stupid, but you are BEING stupid.

Palutena CAN'T perform Din, Nayru, and Farore's abilities.
K. Rool CAN'T breathe Fire and shell spin
Ridley CAN'T head bash rocks and transform into Squirtle
Little Mac CAN'T use fireballs, capes, and FLUDD.

The only thing truly idiotic is how poorly you understood the argument. The argument is that:

Each clone character must ORIGINALLY have BOTH of the following:

1. Major similarities to a character
2. They must ALREADY be capable of performing the abilities of said character

That's what happened with every character who fit that criteria. Ridley, King K. Rool, Lucario, and Little Mac do NOT share these 2 things with the characters you proposed. What on earth are you talking about?

 

[andimidna]

Skyloft is looking to be the home Zelda Stage. Just because they use a similar design doesn't mean they are going to consistently focus mainly on TP. They're going to keep looking forward most likely.

The real question is why Sakurai would decide on Wolf Link NOW, instead of when it would have made sense to do so, around when the game in which Wolf Link actually appeared and was relevant to the series? Wolf Link is not relevant to Zelda at the moment with Skyward Sword. They may have a similar design to TP, but it's not where Zelda is anymore.

Sheik makes sense because at the time of her inception, she was important and a part of Zelda (from one of, if not the, most iconic game to the series) and adds to gameplay value. Wolf Link doesn't make much sense in that same vein.

Time constraints? Didn't think of it at the time of Brawl? Zelda U is possibly a sequel to TP?
Whatever reason you like.
Midna is almost as popular as Sheik. But Sheik got more people to know about her because of Melee... and then Brawl. Midna doesn't have that. I don't see how you can be against something extra, it would be pretty easy to add... well, not that adding characters is easy... you probably get what I mean. TP sales reached higher than OoT, it's definitely worth representing. Both OoT and TP are the big ones. SS didn't make as big of an impact on the series. Skyloft and the Beetle along with (hopefully) Alternate costumes, should represent it well. We had both Bridge of Eldin and Pirate Ship added in Brawl. And Temple returned. This time, maybe they'll just add Skyloft, and will return both Bridge of Eldin and Pirate Ship as the characters the stages came with are relevant again in Smash Bros. Then in the handheld version, they can add just Spirit Train and Gerudo Valley, and maybe something from ALBW like Lorule Castle too, I don't see stages returning on the 3ds, for space. But it could work, just like MKWii stages came to MK7, they just needed to be "dumbed down" a bit.
Say what you will, but it fits great, makes perfect sense, and probably won't happen.

 

[Louie G.]

Saturn hasn't been here for 7 minutes.
Prepare yourselves for a wall of text.

Edit: Ah, called it.

 

[TumblrFamous]

You're clearly not listening. You don't become clones unless you are "ORIGINALLY" okay? "CAPABLE" did you get that part? "OF PERFORMING THE SAME ABILITIES"!

That and you "ALSO" have to share "SIMILAR TRAITS"

You have to have BOTH of these things. Lucario does not.

No offense, but now you're just being stupid. Especially by comparing this to the Krystal argument.

Palutena CAN'T perform Din, Nayru, and Farore's abilities.
K. Rool CAN'T breathing Fire and shell spinning
Ridley CAN'T head bash rocks and transform into Squirtler
Little Mac CAN'T use fireballs, capes, and FLUDD.

The only thing truly idiotic is how poorly you understood that argument. The argument is that

Each clone character must ORIGINALLY have ALL of the following

1. Major similarities to a character
2. They must ALREADY be capable of performing the abilities of said character

That's what happened with every character who fit that criteria. Ridley, King K. Rool, Lucario, and Little Mac do NOT share these 2 things with the characters you proposed. What on earth are you talking about?

And now you're being an ass.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Is it taboo on Smashboards to not hate Krystal or is it due to her unfortunate association with her fanbase?

 

[UltimateWario]

I think people think Krystal has a fair chance of being a clone because of Sakurai's track record with extremely original Starfox characters. That, and in every incarnation since Adventures, she's lost the one thing that made her unique among her fellow space furries. If Krystal were, for whatever reason, to get in, I wouldn't be surprised if she was a clone. I wouldn't be happy about it, that's for damn sure (because if I have to put up with Krystal, she better damn well at least be unique), but I wouldn't be surprised. Her staff won't stop her from becoming a clone if Ganon's magic didn't.

But yeah, people who say "Character X will be a (semi)clone of Character Y Because of Z" generally don't know much about the character in general and are simply digging for reasons to lobby against them. The obvious exceptions are characters who are actually the same as other characters in Smash, like Dixie to Diddy or Louie to Olimar.

EDIT: Oh look, another person to mute. -sighs and rubs bridge of nose-

 

[TheLastJinjo]

And now you're being an ***.

For using bigger text? You didn't read it the first time it had smaller text.

 

[Hotfeet444]

It does not help that every character in the Star Fox franchise has a blaster, reflector, illusion, jetpack, and same Final Smash. A franchise with three characters... you would hope there would be a little more variety between all three. (That is why I was an advocate for Andross with a body in the pre-Brawl days).

Plus, Wolf is a wolf named Wolf that is a wolf. Fox is a fox named Fox that is a fox.

The thing though is that Fox, Falco and Wolf, special move wise, are based off their vehicles. Wolfens operate very differently from Arwings and Wolf's piloting techniques are different than Fox, which is why his specials are altered. They all work almost completely differently to show the difference. Although the Final Smash is just laziness incarnate.

Krystal wouldn't be designed off an Arwing, she'd be designed off of the gameplay of Starfox Adventures, which is her most prominent role, which in short makes the whole "Clone" talk for Krystal completely and utterly stupid.

And now you're being an ***.

You sound surprised...

Is it taboo on Smashboards to not hate Krystal or is it due to her unfortunate association with her fanbase?

More of the former because of the latter, but I could care less. I've had the misfortune of having to associate myself with many groups that ruin the image of what I love and support, it doesn't stop me from doing what I want.

 

[andimidna]

Yep. That's your opinion.

Doesn't make it true, or likely. I like Triforce Slash. Doesn't mean it's guaranteed to come back.

But it's not even from a Zelda game. I want something that Link actually does. Not only could I never get myself to play Link because Toon Link was way better, but I had to turn off the items if I wanted to play as Toon Link just because that final smash made me so mad. Link has so much potential to have something from ANY Zelda game. ANYTHING. But no. He holds you in a triforce, and swings his sword around... Has Sakurai ever played a Zelda game?? WTF?!

EDIT:
Attack Origin
In The Legend of Zelda series, every Link gets a Triforce on the back of his left hand, except for in the Wii version of The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess where he has it on the back of his right hand due to the game being flipped (the GameCube version is in the original orientation). Sakurai mentions that for this Final Smash, Link releases the Triforce he has in his hand and traps his opponents inside of it. This move hasn't been seen in any Zelda game, however Puppet Zelda in Twilight Princess used the Triforce as an attack similar to this.

wat.

These are not the same.

 

[TumblrFamous]

For using bigger text? You didn't read it the first time it had smaller text.

No, for getting all pissy when people didn't understand your loosely-strung argument that was barely explained.

 

[Louie G.]

No offense, but now you're just being stupid. Especially by comparing this to the Krystal argument.

Palutena CAN'T perform Din, Nayru, and Farore's abilities.
K. Rool CAN'T breathing Fire and shell spinning
Ridley CAN'T head bash rocks and transform into Squirtler
Little Mac CAN'T use fireballs, capes, and FLUDD.

The only thing truly idiotic is how poorly you understood that argument. The argument is that

Each clone character must ORIGINALLY have ALL of the following

1. Major similarities to a character
2. They must ALREADY be capable of performing the abilities of said character

That's what happened with every character who fit that criteria. Ridley, King K. Rool, Lucario, and Little Mac do NOT share these 2 things with the characters you proposed. What on earth are you talking about?

What I'm saying is that Krystal does not share as many similarities as you think she does.
She is a fox. She's from Star Fox. The end.
I was making my points intentionally stupid so that you would realize that yours is as well, but I suppose you did not.
Let me use Palutena as my example.

B: Light Counter
From her boss battle. Spins around and reflects attacks.

Side B: Shining Halo
Also from her boss battle. Summons a halo made of light to move slowly through the air. Explodes when you let go of the B button.

Up B: Teleport Flash
Palutena disappears in a flash of light to reappear somewhere else.

Down B: Whatever, she can't turn into Sheik, let's get that out of the way.

My point is that Sakurai CAN make a character similar, but doesn't HAVE to, nor is it likely that he would take a character like Krystal only to make her a clone.
He may as well not put her in. The only way she's getting into Smash is with her magic staff.
That's what makes her UNIQUE after all.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

If TP is too old, why do we have TP incarnations?

And don't say we don't... we do.

They aren't really TP incarnations.

As @pizzadudemanguy said in one of his videos, they are more of brand-new "Smash incarnations," that are based off of the TP designs.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

No, for getting all pissy when people didn't understand your loosely-strung argument that was barely explained.

How is that pissy? I'm trying to explain it better. But, I guess it's pissy to call a counter argument "idiotic" or to try to simplify it.

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

K. Rool CAN'T breathe Fire and shell spin

Actually, in DK jungle climber he can

 

[TumblrFamous]

How is that pissy? I'm trying to explain it better. But, I guess it's pissy to call a counter argument "idiotic" or to try to simplify it.

Actually, yes, it is pissy to call it idiotic, when we just didn't understand it at first. You didn't need to be sarcastic when you tried to reexplain it.

 

[Hotfeet444]

But, I guess it's pissy to call a counter argument "idiotic" or to try to simplify it.

Considering you're demeaning the other person for no other reason than because they don't agree with you, it's not pissy, it's downright arrogant.

Aaaanyways, Krystal wouldn't be a clone, does anyone else have something new to talk about?

Also, actually, KingShadow, I liked your Meta Knight Revamp, although I think the Mega Mach Tornado would be a better final smash. I expect his normals would be like what he does in Return to Dreamland?

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Again with the "staff means no clone" story. I'm tired of hearing it.
It does not matter if she has a staff, she can easily be another Wolf while using it. (By which I mean, normal attacks not derived from Fox, but Specials are.)

Can she shoot things? Yes. The staff shoots firebolts instead of lasers, but they can be fired the same way.
Can she "flash step"? Logically speaking, yes. You can even add the staff's ice projection powers to give it a unique flair. An Ice Dash if you will.
Can she boost upwards? Yes. It's called Rocket Boost, an ability the staff has in-game.
Can she reflect things with a barrier? Yes. The staff has a barrier power.
Can she use a Landmaster? Yes.

So what does this show? That Krystal can *gasp* be another semi-clone even WITH the staff that people claim she would be completely unique while using! "Strange, isn't it? "
Now granted, I'm not arguing that Krystal would be a semi-clone, but I'm dispelling the arugment that she won't or can't be one.

"But what about the Ground Quake?" Down Smash.

----

Just putting this out here in case anyone is curious.

----

 

[UltimateWario]

But it's not even from a Zelda game. I want something that Link actually does...Has Sakurai ever played a Zelda game?? WTF?!

Final Smashes, accuracy-wise, are almost universally non-canon. Kirby's Chef Ability, the Starfox gang's Landmasters (besides Wofl's), Marth's Critical Hit, Beast Ganon, the Light Arrows...these are almost all of the Final Smashes based on a character's actual ability or event that they experienced (in Olimar's case). There are a few more, but for the most part, Final Smashes aren't meant to be true to a character. They're meant to look cool and deal lots of damage.

Do I wish Samus had HyperMode or the Hyper Beam as her Final Smash? Yeah, sure. But I understand that the Zero Laser has pretty much universal appeal and it's not going anywhere.

Link doesn't have a Final Smash from the Zelda series, because there's nothing there that really fits as a final smash for him. Nothing "epic" enough that isn't too specific.

This, too. As good as Majora's Mask is, it's relatively a cult classic compared to OoT, and even then, not a lot of people got the Fierce Deity's Mask, and even then, only Young Link every uses it. Besides the Fierce Deity's Mask, Link never really has an "ultimate" attack or form.

 

[Bowserlick]

The thing though is that Fox, Falco and Wolf, special move wise, are based off their vehicles. Wolfens operate very differently from Arwings and Wolf's piloting techniques are different than Fox, which is why his specials are altered. They all work almost completely differently to show the difference. Although the Final Smash is just laziness incarnate.

Krystal wouldn't be designed off an Arwing, she'd be designed off of the gameplay of Starfox Adventures, which is her most prominent role, which in short makes the whole "Clone" talk for Krystal completely and utterly stupid.

There is a perception element of stagnation in the Star Fox roster even if their movesets are justified by their vehicles and different styles operating similar machinery.

Two of them being similar is OK. Mario and Luigi are good examples of different takes on a similar moveset. They are both plumbers and brothers that fight the same enemies with a successful fighting style. This works well because there are other Mushroom Kingdom representatives that fight and move and look incredibly different.

Fox and Falco have the same equipment, but have different styles of employing their tools. This similar, but different contrast would seem more relevant if Wolf wasn't tacked on as a third animal named after an animal with a laser, shield, boost, jetpack, and tank.

I'd say that Wolf needs his Down B and either his side or Up changed to futher establish Wolf a little further away from Fox/Falco. And every character should have a different Final Smash.

*Also so much time has been put into giving Wolf different animations in almost every other department it seems like a waste to keep the feeling of being a clone alive by having similar-perceived specials.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Looks like we are in the middle of another Saturn being cocky argument.
Seems like he didn't take my advice.

I guess I'll be going.
TO THE BEAN-MOBILE!!!!!

Chortles chortles chortles chortles chortles chortles chortles chortles FAWFUUUUUUL FAWFUUUUUL FAWFUUUUUL!!!!!

 

[Louie G.]

I won't argue that it's out of the question that Krystal becomes a clone. Because it's not.
But I'm saying that there is no need to add the character without her staff, her iconic weapon and what makes her unique and likable to her non-furry Smash fanbase.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Looks like we are in the middle of another Saturn being cocky argument.
Seems like he didn't take my advice.

You don't need to be cocky either.

 

[SuperNintendoDisney]

I think its safe to dismiss certain characters based on logic, common sense and previous statements by Sakurai.

• There won't be as many newcomers in SSB4 as the were in Brawl
• Four newcomers have already been announced, leaves about six-eight left
• Sakurai has a desire to revive retro characters
• Third party characters will not be added willy-nilly
• Obscure minor characters from already well represented series aren't logical
• Obscure minor characters in general aren't logical

 

[Sharkarat]

Link doesn't have a Final Smash from the Zelda series, because there's nothing there that really fits as a final smash for him. Nothing "epic" enough that isn't too specific.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Theyr totly hnting at Krystal bein plyble u guiz. 3:15 http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I63Q9wZMikc

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

I guess I'll be going.
TO THE BEAN-MOBILE!!!!!

Oh, yeah about that.

Shouldnt have parked it there man i didnt see it

 

[Hotfeet444]

There is a perception element of stagnation in the Star Fox roster even if their movesets are justified by their vehicles and different styles operating similar machinery.

Two of them being similar is OK. Mario and Luigi are good examples of different takes a similar moveset. They are both plumbers and brothers that fight the same enemies with a successful fighting style. This works well because there are other Mushroom Kingdom representatives that fight and move and look incredibly different.

Fox and Falco have the same equipment, but have different styles of employing their tools. This similar, but different contrast would seem more relevant if Wolf wasn't tacked on as a third animal named after an animal with a laser, shield, boost, jetpack, and tank.

I'd say that Wolf needs his Down B and either his side or Up changed to futher establish Wolf a little further away from Fox/Falco. And every character should have a different Final Smash.

Well, only really Fox and Falco are similar, Wolf is only overly similar because he has the same final smash, which, honestly, does make more sense for Falco to have it, although that doesn't justify it being given to Wolf as well. Fox and Falco work on the same team, they use the same style, although Falco's now differing himself a bit more because he's a bit more brash than Fox.

If anything just give Wolf a redesigned down B and it's fine, since overall that's the special move that works the most like Fox and Falco's, but then again, Wolf was once friends with Fox's father and probably took some tricks from him, which could make sense he uses some of the same gear, but overall the Reflector, although overall it does work differently than Fox and Falco's, needs to be changed. Although, I wouldn't mind if Falco got a Sniper Rifle and Wolf got a gattling gun from the Starfox Assault Multiplayer, or upgrade Wolf to two blasters while Falco uses a Sniper Rifle since the Wolfen II has two cannons instead of one.

 

[Bowserlick]

Link doesn't have a Final Smash from the Zelda series, because there's nothing there that really fits as a final smash for him. Nothing "epic" enough that isn't too specific.

What sending everyone else back through time with his Ocarina and slaying them while they are infants?

 

[Opossum]

That's actually not the point. Characters become clones because they ALREADY share similar abilities. Not because they have completely unrelated abilities that are deliberately altered to function the same as an unrelated ability.

Actually characters become clones because (gasp) they run low on development time (well, except Toon Link, but he's the well-known exception). The six Melee clones were only added to buff the roster, and the newer clones in Brawl (read: Lucas, and even that's stretching the term) were likely the way they are because of the SSE taking up most of the time. There's actual proof to coincide with this, unlike your pattern theory.

So now you are assuming that because something is "visually different" that it must function differently. Rather similar to something it resembles even LESS.

You're completely missing the point, Saturn. Chrom's sword, while technically the same sword, is heavily reforged. It looks completely different. As such, Chrom fights completely differently than Marth does, and moreso has a fighting style more similar (read: NOT EXACTLY THE SAME, BUT CLOSER TO) Ike's. And that's not even bringing up the fact that minus the blue hair, Marth and Chrom look completely different.

But, the sword is not. That and the fact that he is a descendant is enough to lean more towards Marth

If at this point you honestly can't see the difference between Chrom's Falchion and Marth's Falchion, I don't know what to say. It's like you're purposely ignoring evidence. And sharing a bloodline doesn't automatically make the character similar to another. Notice how different Mario is from Luigi?

Yeah, Pit got like what? 2 moves reworked? One that's just the same move, but functions slightly different?

Three that we know of. The recovery looks like it functions much differently. The Guardian Orbitars replace the Mirror Shield and work differently. The Upperdash Arm is a COMPLETELY different move from the Angel Ring.

And yet Bowser still retains all of his original specials.

Wait, so according to you, Pit having his Specials changed doesn't matter, but at the same time, Bowser having lots of things except his Specials changed also doesn't matter. Nice contradiction, there.

The public being cross has NOTHING to do with it either. The public becomes upset when ANYBODY is a clone. And you don't seem to have any basis that Ganondorf was a last minute addition or that Wolf is a semi-clone BECAUSE he was a last minute addition.

Ganondorf was a last minute addition in Melee. That's a proven fact, and pretty much common knowledge by now. As well, in Brawl, the SSE ate up 75% of the Dev time. That's likely why he wasn't decloned. And LOL at Wolf being called a semi-clone. Having four similar moves isn't even enough to be called a semi-clone.

Also once again you are assuming that because unique characters got minor unique changes, that clone characters will no longer be clone characters. Why?

So by your logic, unique characters can be reworked, but clones are clones forever? That's some grade-A bull. Pit and Bowser's changes heavily affect the way they play, so they're by no means "minor." If anything, logic would dictate that if they were reworked, a character like Ganondorf, known for the fact that people hate his cloned moveset, would be reworked.

And what do you mean by "knows the character from the source material"?

Lots of people have played Awakening, and as such, know what Chrom is capable of first-hand. More people played Awakening than say, Mother 3. Less people would feel alienated by the fact that Lucas was a semi-clone than if Chrom was. I use Lucas because he's really the only clone/semiclone left that wasn't leftover from the six extra clones from Melee.

LMAO! Are you for real? I just proved it to you! Need me to do it again?

You proved nothing. But I'll humor you.

Here you go:

Oh, a colored list! This should be fun...

Proof

Oh boy, here we go...

that all characters who have shared major similarities and originally are capable of performing the actions of said similar character become clones/semi-clones:

Lucas - Shares very similar traits with Ness and originally shares abilities with him. He physically capable of performing his moves. Shares moves with Ness.

While I can agree that Lucas is a semi-clone, I also explained why it doesn't exactly mean as much to him as it would if Chrom were made a semi-clone. To go further though, Lucas and Ness can't even learn PK Fire, Starstorm and Thunder in their game, nor can Lucas learn PK Freeze. Heck, Lucas can actually LEARN PK FLASH, but doesn't take it from Ness. That alone throws away the argument of "Characters that learn similar moves and look similar are destined to have those moves cloned."

Jigglypuff - Shares somewhat similar traits with Kirby and is physically capable of performing some of her Smash attacks and puff jumps. She did.

Are you seriously insinuating that Jigglypuff plays at all like Kirby does? The jumps and her shape are pretty much where the similarities end.

Falco - Shares very similar traits with Fox and originally shares abilities with him. He is physically capable of performing his moves. So he did.

You know why he does? Sakurai needed six last minute clones for Melee, and Falco looked more physically different from Fox than Wolf did. That's the only reason why Falco was added, and why he's a clone. It's a different situation now. Sakurai likely won't have the "clone quota," so Chrom will likely be unique if added.

Proof that characters with major similarities that are NOT originally capable of performing enough of the abilities of other characters do NOT become semi-clones.:

Rosalina - Shares very similar traits with Peach. Is originally incapable of summoning a parasol or owning a parasol. She is originally incapable of using or pulling vegetables. Not enough original abilities to share a move set with Peach. Thus she did not.

Funny, I thought you said that looking similar to Marth (which is still hilarious, really) was enough to make Chrom an automatic clone, while Rosalina looks quite a bit (physically speaking) like Peach, but suddenly can't be a clone...which is it, Saturn?

Ike - Shares very similar traits with Marth and has a sword. He does not own the same sword which is originally too heavy and originally incapable of performing enough of Marth's abilities. To make things worse, Marth's Special was replaced with a stabbing motion. Thus the only move he shared was counter. He did not become a semi-clone of Marth.

Chrom's Falchion is also different enough from Marth's to not be an automatic clone. If it works for Ike, it works for Chrom. Simple as that, Saturn.

If you can find me ONE character who

1. Had major similarities to another
2. was ORIGINALLY able to perform their abilities.

Who did NOT become a semi-clone,clone, pseudo clone then I will admit I am wrong. But there are none. So the pattern IS existent. You deciding to ignore it does not make it go away. I can't really say much else besides that you are simply wrong.

You're ignoring the fact that Lucas, who may still be a semi-clone, completely destroys your argument due to one thing: he had the option of utilizing Ness' PK Flash, which he naturally learns. Instead, he used PK Freeze, which he can't learn. That one counterpoint is enough to break your imaginary pattern. Your self-imposed conditions won't make this go away, Saturn.

I guess because you think you're right that your immature insults are justified. And that when I respond negatively to said insults you'll become surprised. But, anyway I'll wait for you to present me with that character I asked for.

Your childishness doesn't surprise me anymore, Saturn. In fact, I've come to expect it. It's who you are, after all. I'm just having a bit of fun is all. Looks like you won't need to wait too much longer either, assuming you didn't skip over the parts you didn't want to read.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

What I'm saying is that Krystal does not share as many similarities as you think she does.

Oh, really?

That's a HELL of a lot more than Toon Link, Ganondorf, and Lucas...She uses all the Star Fox gear too does she not?

I was making my points intentionally stupid so that you would realize that yours is as well, but I suppose you did not.

That's probably because mine is true and based on it actually happening to every character under the specific descriptions I gave. Than you suggested characters NOT under the specific descriptions I gave. So comparing it makes no sense.

B: Light Counter
From her boss battle. Spins around and reflects attacks.

Side B: Shining Halo
Also from her boss battle. Summons a halo made of light to move slowly through the air. Explodes when you let go of the B button.

Up B: Teleport Flash
Palutena disappears in a flash of light to reappear somewhere else.

Down B: Whatever, she can't turn into Sheik, let's get that out of the way.

Once again, this does NOT fit the description I gave. This suggests that Palutena could have unrelated moves and that Sakurai could make them function the same despite originally baring no resemblance to begin with. If Palutena did these things and they bared resemblance to begin with, then that would make sense. But, she doesn't.

A character becomes a clone because they are ALREADY are able to perform the SAME actions. Not because Sakurai can INVENT stuff to DELIBERATELY alter to function the same as those unrelated actions.

Like Ganondorf, he's already able to punch and kick and grab. Lucas is already able to use PSI.

Lucario is not already able to use confusion, teleport, or disable. King K. Rool is not already able to breathe fire and have a shell.

And I hope you read VERY closely to the wording I used because it's very specific. Last time you didn't and started posting stuff that made no sense.

My point is that Sakurai CAN make a character similar, but doesn't HAVE to, nor is it likely that he would take a character like Krystal only to make her a clone.
He may as well not put her in.

Exactly

 

[SuperNintendoDisney]

Final Smashes, accuracy-wise, are almost universally non-canon. Kirby's Chef Ability, the Starfox gang's Landmasters (besides Wofl's), Marth's Critical Hit, Beast Ganon, the Light Arrows...these are almost all of the Final Smashes based on a character's actual ability or event that they experienced (in Olimar's case). There are a few more, but for the most part, Final Smashes aren't meant to be true to a character. They're meant to look cool and deal lots of damage.

Do I wish Samus had HyperMode or the Hyper Beam as her Final Smash? Yeah, sure. But I understand that the Zero Laser has pretty much universal appeal and it's not going anywhere.

There are very few Final Smashes that are completely made up. Wolf is able to use Landmasters in Star Fox: Assault. Yoshi's Super Dragon is inspired by Super Mario World by combining all of his abilities in that game. the only ones that come to mind are Luigi, R.O.B. and Link, even though you could argue Link's is based on his own games.

Oh, really?
View attachment 7422
That's a HELL of a lot more than Toon Link, Ganondorf, and Lucas...She uses all the Star Fox gear too does she not?

Oh come now, you know full well they would use her Dinosaur Planet model if she made it into smash