Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[SuperNintendoDisney]

Whether a character should be given tweaks or a revamp is probably best decided on a character-by-character basis. It's just a personal thought that the older veterans' movesets pale in comparison to the newer characters', and that need not be the case. Mario and DK can be made to stand out just as much as Rosalina and Mega Man, but are instead stuck performing bland punches and kicks on the vast majority of their moves, just because they had the bad fortune of having their movesets made in 1999. I wish that would change, and that this change would be the "new approach" taken with a future Smash game, rather than some superfluous game mode.

My list of essentials is that list, minus Falco, Wolf, the retro characters, and Jigglypuff. Maybe with Little Mac added on, and K. Rool too if I'm being biased.

Every character has generic normal attacks, even Mega Man. Mario and Donkey Kong have specials that relate to their series even with their original move-sets. R.O.B and Game & Watch are essential to the roster for being monumental aspects of Nintendo and video game history. R.O.B is more important than these kids give him credit for

MVC2 may be groundbreaking, but the issue is that many characters are clones or are simply underdeveloped in that game.

At an advanced level of play, sure. Outside of that, none of those reasons stop it from being extremely fun

 

[Depressed Gengar]

Would think Lucario is more essential than Jiggly. Jiggly's only importance was a role in the anime for a short amount of time.

 

[Hotfeet444]

At an advanced level of play, sure. Outside of that, none of those reasons stop it from being extremely fun

I'll give you a reason it's not extremely fun, nothing but Sentinel, Magneto, Cable and Iron Man as far as the eye can see. When three characters are made almost unstoppable and the rest is nothing but mediocre to unusable, it's not fun...at all...

 

[Reznor]

At an advanced level of play, sure. Outside of that, none of those reasons stop it from being extremely fun

this site is for competitive smash so when generally think/talk about the future of Smash 4 at a advance level
so what @BigAxle still stand

 

[BKupa666]

Every character has generic normal attacks, even Mega Man. Mario and Donkey Kong have specials that relate to their series even with their original move-sets. R.O.B and Game & Watch are essential to the roster for being monumental aspects of Nintendo and video game history. R.O.B is more important than these kids give him credit for

ROB and Game & Watch can stay, I suppose, but the Ice Climbers are completely interchangeable with other characters who are either retro or a duo. I don't want to eliminate all generic attacks, but as an example, DK's generic running kick can get the hell out of his moveset and be replaced with his actual roll attack. Some of his Smashes can be revamped to, say, bury opponents or produce soundwaves as well. DK's just an example of a character who could use a bit more polish so they're not just skipped over as a "boring heavyweight" by the masses. And yes, that's exactly what happened to him during Brawl's demos; he was considered so unpopular by crowdgoers, he was the veteran chosen to be taken out of a future demo in favor of Lucas (IIRC).

 

[josh bones]

Would think Lucario is more essential than Jiggly. Jiggly's only importance was a role in the anime for a short amount of time.

But she's a fairy, dat makez her resent.

 

[Reznor]

Would think Lucario is more essential than Jiggly. Jiggly's only importance was a role in the anime for a short amount of time.

Jiggly was really popular with female pokemon fans back in the day
when a girl casual plays smash they pick Kirby or Jiggs this is fact

 

[SuperNintendoDisney]

this site is for competitive smash so when generally think/talk about the future of Smash 4 at a advance level
so what @BigAxle still stand

Speaking of Marvel VS Capcom 2, regardless, Smash is enjoyed by more casual players than competitive

ROB and Game & Watch can stay, I suppose, but the Ice Climbers are completely interchangeable with other characters who are either retro or a duo. I don't want to eliminate all generic attacks, but as an example, DK's generic running kick can get the hell out of his moveset and be replaced with his actual roll attack. Some of his Smashes can be revamped to, say, bury opponents or produce soundwaves as well. DK's just an example of a character who could use a bit more polish so they're not just skipped over as a "boring heavyweight" by the masses. And yes, that's exactly what happened to him during Brawl's demos; he was considered so unpopular by crowdgoers, he got taken out of a future demo in favor of Lucas (IIRC).

If it means that much to you, I guess I could see that

 

[josh bones]

Guys, Can we talk about toon impa?

 

[Reznor]

Speaking of Marvel VS Capcom 2, regardless, Smash is enjoyed by more casual players than competitive

every single video game ever made has more casuals than competitive players
also casuals will like any game if its fun might as well make it competitive (I still see tons of casual SF players)

 

[Hotfeet444]

To break the talk into something a little more interesting, I found this:

A moveset for Samurai Goroh....WITHOUT a sword, giving him a more sumo style. Here's the descriptions for each move:

Hageshii: I did my best to not include his sword because seriously there are too many swords as it is. Though he's a samurai I see a bit of sumo in there as well so this moves has him thrusting his hands back and forth while standing still.
Ordeal: Any clues as to where I got these move names from? This is a heavy charge forward and if it connects Goroh knocks his opponent to the ground and can follow up with a few punches. An ordeal indeed. I think a Tekken character does this.
Meteor Storm: Despite his size Goroh is supposedly quite athletic and one his specialities seems to be his ability to perform multiple backflips. I simply substituted forward flips because that seems to make more sense play wise. He does this in a sort of squatting pose, rather than curled into a ball.
Screw Drive: Goroh dives down, spinning with his fist out and bounces heavily off the ground (like the Bowser Bomb, performing this on the ground will precede the move with a small jump.)
Fire Stingray: Capitalising on the Ganondorfyness (TM) I pretty much lifted his Final Smash wholesale but replaced pig Ganon with the titular race car. I suppose it could leave a temporary trail of fire behind it too.

You all LOVE discussing Samurai Goroh so much, I thought I'd pull in a different opinion.

 

[josh bones]

expecting goroh talk?\
TOO BAD.
.

Time.

 

[JamesDNaux]

So I thought of a just for fun topic, nothing to be taken completely seriously.

Who would you pick for the various different third parties if any of them were to get a character in Smash?

I'll only list the few I can think of off the top of my head, including who we've already had:

Konami: Snake
Sega: Sonic
Capcom: Mega Man
Namco: Pac-Man
UbiSoft: Rayman
Squeenix: Geno
EA: No

I don't really know many now that I think about it.

 

[NickerBocker]

Lol, not happening. Especially not for the characters on your roster.

Subjective.

Because Shulk is hardly even important and Pokemon Trainer IS.

You play Pokemon for the Pokemon, not the trainer. It's why is the game called "Pokemon" not "Pokemon Trainer" or "Gotta catch em all"

Uh, no. That is NOT how it works. If anything it's the other way around. Sakurai does not remove characters because they take long to develop. You know it takes a long time to develop 3 Kirby characters. How does that make them low priority. Same goes for Zelda and Sheik. Characters being integrated into one does not make you low priority either. They are each individual characters just like everyone else. Again, if anything that makes them higher priority.

Zelda/Shiek makes sense as a transformation, and doesn't take as much work as 3 characters together. You can add the 3 Pokemon Trainer Pokemon as seperate characters and it would be easier, and it would still make sense. Also, I never talked about priority.

How is 3 characters equal to 4 characters? Last time I checked you couldn't play as the Trainer himself. And again even if they are together as one slot, they are still 3 characters not 1. Even if it was 1 character your idea of characters being low priority because they take long to develop is proposterous. Let alone the idea that because 3 characters take as long to develop as any other character it makes them low priority. I guess Ike, King Dedede, and Captain Falcon should be low priority. Because it takes so long to develop all of them.

3 characters as one =/= 3 slots, time wise. Sakurai said himself that adding characters to Smash is not addition, rather, its multiplication. If that is indeed true, you can think of more than one character in a slot as exponential. Balance has been discussed before, and its not easy to do such a thing with a character like this. It takes alot of time.

I will use Zelda/Shiek as a comparison. When balancing the roster, this is the process it must take:

• Zelda by herself
• Shiek by herself
  
• Zelda/Shiek by themselves
• Zelda against everyone
• Shiek against everyone
• Zelda/Shiek together against everyone.

Now, Pokemon Trainer:

• Charizard by himself
• Squirtle by himself
• Ivysaur by himself
• Charizard/Squirtle against everyone
• Charizard/Ivysaur against everyone
• Ivysaur/Squirtle against everyone
• Charizard/Ivysaur/Squirtle with themselves

• Charizard against everyone
• Squirtle against everyone
• Ivysaur against everyone
• Charizard/Squirtle against everyone
• Charizard/Ivysaur against everyone
• Ivysaur/Squirtle against everyone
• Charizard/Ivysaur/Squirtle against everyone

So, Zelda/Shiek is 6 steps, Pokemon Trainer is 14. Zelda/Shiek was a new concept when introduced in Melee, so it fit well. We haven't seen Zelda without a Shiek transformation, so we dont know how it would work. Pokemon can exist without a trainer, as seen with every other pokemon in Smash, which is what i was trying to accomplish with Charizard in the roster.

While the idea of Pokemon Trainer wasn't bad, it was poorly executed. The whole concept of him wasn't well recieved either, with the stamina mechanic and the weaknesses mechanic. The pokemon were fairly underpowered to make up for their variety of moves, but it was unsatisfying to play as.


I guess we should just take the time away in developing newcomers so that this one slot can be created. thats pretty exciting

 

[TheLastJinjo]

So what if Poochy gets in for Yoshi?

 

[Reznor]

So I thought of a just for fun topic, nothing to be taken completely seriously.

Who would you pick for the various different third parties if any of them were to get a character in Smash?

I'll only list the few I can think of off the top of my head, including who we've already had:

Konami: Snake
Sega: Sonic
Capcom: Mega Man
Namco: Pac-Man
UbiSoft: Rayman
Squeenix: Geno
EA: No

I don't really know many now that I think about it.

Konami: Bomberman
Sega: Billy Hatcher
Capcom: Protoman
Namco: Pacman
Ubisoft: none
Squeenix: anyone but Geno
EA: CWAALLL OF DOOTIE

 

[josh bones]

So what if Poochy gets in for Yoshi?

 

[SuperNintendoDisney]

I'll give you a reason it's not extremely fun, nothing but Sentinel, Magneto, Cable and Iron Man as far as the eye can see. When three characters are made almost unstoppable and the rest is nothing but mediocre to unusable, it's not fun...at all...

Huh... I had hours of fun, I guess I was wrong

 

[TheLastJinjo]

You play Pokemon for the Pokemon, not the trainer. It's why is the game called "Pokemon" not "Pokemon Trainer" or "Gotta catch em all"

So?

Zelda/Shiek makes sense as a transformation, and doesn't take as much work as 3 characters together.

Pokemon Trainer as a transformation makes sense too. And again, development length does not make you low priority. By presenting a prediction roster that suggests otherwise and defending that as your reason you ARE saying it does.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

Poochy...
...Wat.

 

[Reznor]

Huh... I had hours of fun, I guess I was wrong

well did you or the opponent use infinites?
because that's what usually happens

 

[NickerBocker]

So?

So the Triforce should be playable because it's important in Zelda?

Pokemon Trainer as a transformation makes sense too. And again, development length does not make you low priority. By presenting a prediction roster that suggests otherwise and defending that as your reason you ARE saying it does.

It can make you low priority when the devs don't want to continually come back to this character and have to repeat this process every time a new character is added.

 

[SuperNintendoDisney]

well did you or the opponent use infinites?
because that's what usually happens

Everyone I play with uses all different characters. We can decipher who the best fighters are so if we play seriously we had rules or tiered each match to what fighters can be chosen

 

[TheLastJinjo]

So the Triforce should be playable because it's important in Zelda?

 

[Arcanir]

Would think Lucario is more essential than Jiggly. Jiggly's only importance was a role in the anime for a short amount of time.

Most likely yes if we just look at Pokémon popularity, Jigglypuff's seniority however may have that be a bit more debatable. Honestly though, as much as I hate to admit it, PT (or at least Charizard) probably would have the best chance of staying if it came to trimming down the cast as Lucario, Mewtwo and Jigglypuff don't have as much prominence as him and his Pokemon and Charizard himself is easily a more popular Pokémon then them.

As for the rest, I agree with SuperNintendoDisney's list minus maybe Falco/Wolf.

 

[Cpt.]

I'm honestly not going to consider this because I disagree with so much of it. PS Samus was an original character, and got ZSS in Brawl. I'm hoping for the same type of transformation. It's TP Link, this is what TP Link does, he doesn't do some freakin "Triforce Slash"! What was with that?!

Umm I'm sorry what are you talking about?

Samus didn't change at all in Brawl she got I new add on move (super missles) that's it. Zero Samus was a completely different character and got in because after metroid Zero Mission she was the face of metroid. Midna on the other hand, while well liked was
1. only in one game
2. not the face of zelda (link and the triforce are)
3. not even the main character.........
so there is absolutely no reason to put her with link. Midna isn't Link and Samus is Samus your arguement is invalid.

And while wolf link is link, it again makes no sense to use this as a final smash because wolf link is a cursed/worse version of link. The triforce being part of his final smash because he is one of ONLY three people in his world to have it's unique power. FURTHERMORE this link isn't twilight princess link, it is the link from the new game coming out on the Wii U.

G&W should be inbetween ICs and ROB. The only legitimate format complaint I could see being made is my Earthbound reps are horizontal and every other series is vertical. I don't see them adding Chrom, Lucina, or Dixie and making them interesting enough compared to the unique newcomers so far. Sakurai likes Panel de Pon. I've been unsure about the addition of Lip, Krystal, and Saki.

I did not say to add Impa/T. Zelda/Vaati, I said that they are much more likely to appear over Girahim who has almost no chance whatsoever of making Smash 4.

Also don't just say you disagree. State why otherwise you make no valid argument for yourself.

G&W should be inbetween ICs and ROB. The only legitimate format complaint I could see being made is my Earthbound reps are horizontal and every other series is vertical. I don't see them adding Chrom, Lucina, or Dixie and making them interesting enough compared to the unique newcomers so far. Sakurai likes Panel de Pon. I've been unsure about the addition of Lip, Krystal, and Saki.

I think the earthbound guys are fine as long as they are next to each other.

I believe I gave a neutral for Dixie because she isn't more or less likely than K. Rool and a Neutral for Chrom/Lucina because Chrom can easily get in while Lucina is much less likely..

 

[josh bones]

So the Triforce should be playable because it's important in Zelda?



.

The triforce is playable in Zelda? I need to get my copy out.

 

[Reznor]

It can make you low priority when the devs don't want to continually come back to this character and have to repeat this process every time a new character is added.

it's the devs choice on what characters are low priority it can be completely different than what we think (hell Pokemon trainer might be one of the highest priority characters while Lucario is one of the lowest)

 

[NickerBocker]

View attachment 7376

Your logic, not mine. (The triforce shouldn't be playable, ever, in anything.)

it's the devs choice on what characters are low priority it can be completely different than what we think (hell Pokemon trainer might be one of the highest priority characters while Lucario is one of the lowest)

Notice the word "can." This is my belief, and while it is subjective, I have reasons of thinking this way.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Your logic, not mine. (The triforce shouldn't be playable, ever, in anything.)

MY LOGIC!? When did I start talking about OBJECTS in games becoming playable characters!?!?!?

 

[josh bones]

Diskun

 

[3Bismyname]

now we need to have a Mariokart be playable. not a character in the kart, just the kart.

 

[Reznor]

Notice the word "can." This is my belief, and while it is subjective, I have reasons of thinking this way.

sorry just used to the "I know what Sakurai is thinking" newcomers

 

[?????????????]

Ohhhhhhh....I just now got Diskun's name! I always knew "Disk" was a reference to how he's a disk, but then "kun" is a play on words since it's a disk-person. I feel dumb for not getting that sooner.

 

[SuperNintendoDisney]

Here are my choices for third party fighters

Sega: Sonic
Capcom: Mega Man Volnutt
Konami: Simon Belmont
Square: Chrono, Geno, Mallow
Namco: Pac Man
Rare: Banjo-Kazooie
Sony: Sir Daniel Fortesque
iD: Doom Guy
LucasArts: Darth Vader
Disney: Donald Duck
Marvel: Spiderman
DC: Batman

 

[3Bismyname]

Here are my choices for third party fighters

Sega: Sonic
Capcom: Mega Man Volnutt
Konami: Simon Belmont
Square: Chrono, Geno, Mallow
Namco: Pac Man
Rare: Banjo-Kazooie
Sony: Sir Daniel Fortesque
iD: Doom Guy
LucasArts: Darth Vader
Disney: Donald Duck
Marvel: Spiderman
DC: Batman

no Spike from Sony. i am dissapointed

p.s Lucasarts is closed

 

[Starcutter]

So what if Poochy gets in for Yoshi?

Stork or kamek that's it.

 

[?????????????]

Stork or kamek that's it.

That's more lenient than me. I'm Kamek or nothing. And lean strongly towards the nothing.

 

[NickerBocker]

MY LOGIC!? When did I start talking about OBJECTS in games becoming playable characters!?!?!?

I said:
You play Pokemon for the Pokemon, not the trainer. It's why is the game called "Pokemon" not "Pokemon Trainer" or "Gotta catch em all"

You said:
So?

So i said:
So the Triforce should be playable because it's important in Zelda? (sarcasm)

As in important things from the series don't necessarily need to be playable, such as Pokemon Trainer, while the Pokemon by themselves work as a concept.

You missed the whole point of my argument, so I don't really care anymore. The whole thing I was trying to get at is Pokemon Trainer takes a long time develop and I, personally, don't think it's worth it over adding newcomers.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

Most likely yes if we just look at Pokémon popularity, Jigglypuff's seniority however may have that be a bit more debatable. Honestly though, as much as I hate to admit it, PT (or at least Charizard) probably would have the best chance of staying if it came to trimming down the cast as Lucario, Mewtwo and Jigglypuff don't have as much prominence as him and his Pokemon and Charizard himself is easily a more popular Pokémon then them.

As for the rest, I agree with SuperNintendoDisney's list minus maybe Falco/Wolf.

Are we basing the seniority off of Smash, or Pokémon? If it's the latter, then it's terrible reasoning.
Regardless, I'm going based off of say "If Smash started with 4, who would be "essential"?" Lucario isn't really essential, but he's much more essential than Jiggly in this case scenario.